The Trinity

[popsthebuilder]

I have been made perfect and am a friend to God.

See scriptures above that I just quoted.

John 15:14 You are my friends if you do what I command.

Now you, popsthebuilder, have been making attacks against me for a while now and claiming I am corrupt.

You are what you accuse me to be, corrupt.

Never said or implied I was perfect or without sin, but I do know evil and corruption very well due to my past and the will of GOD.

 

[God's Truth]

Yeah.... One problem.... Actually two.

-Those made perfect hold that they themselves are as nothing.

Those made perfect would be conformed to the image of GOD and this would be evident through their works as per scripture.

You ate nothing but a self deceived imposter full of pride and carnality, dreaming of high places over others.

You are a false judge doing the work of Satan the accuser.

Notice that you do not like it that I speak what the scriptures say.

You want me to let you get away with saying those saved are not made perfect and holy.

You go against me for preaching the truth.

 

[popsthebuilder]

You are a false judge doing the work of Satan the accuser.

Notice that you do not like it that I speak what the scriptures say.

You want me to let you get away with saying those saved are not made perfect and holy.

You go against me for preaching the truth.

I said, or implied no such thing.

Set your vanity aside oh twister, oh proud condemner.

Scripture is beautious to behold regardless of from what produces it.

Run.... Do switch the topic and deviate from the subject; you will be pinned by your own words regardless of where you go, for the house that attacks itself will not stand and the corruption there of will be the cause of its falling away and it's demolition by the self same hands that brought it up, and by the will of GOD;if one could but fathom such.

Now run and mock and gesture against, all who place themselves above the very least and smallest, and do come against the stranger in your land.

Do stick to scripture. Please do.

 

[God's Truth]

I said, or implied no such thing.

Set your vanity aside oh twister, oh proud condemner.

Scripture is beautious to behold regardless of from what produces it.

Run.... Do switch the topic and deviate from the subject; you will be pinned by your own words regardless of where you go, for the house that attacks itself Willmott stand and the corruption there of will be the cause of its falling away.

Do stick to scripture. Please do.

What a mess.

The only cure for you is a humbling and repentance.

 

[God's Truth]

What has popsthebuilder been preaching in this thread?

Some strange things like God being an 'It', and teaching that Jesus' blood doesn't make anyone perfect and holy.

He now wants to get back to the trinity doctrine.

 

[popsthebuilder]

What has popsthebuilder been preaching in this thread?

Some strange things like God being an 'It', and teaching that Jesus' blood doesn't make anyone perfect and holy.

He now wants to get back to the trinity doctrine.

More lies.

I said topic and subject at hand, and not the subtle goal post moving you do continually.

I said exactly the opposite about the blood of Christ and the bread of life. I attested that many have been made perfect by the work and will of GOD.


You know full well that by "IT" I refer to the One Creator GOD. For you to state otherwise is an effort to defame my character, and is naught but your own proud presupposition and private propaganda as you know very well my stance on very many things and that they are synonymous to your own and scripture.

You only deceive yourself.

 

[Rosenritter]

Oh? And who took from GOD that GOD did not will to give?


I'm sorry but that is a stretch.

No matter how you word it, Jesus was not eternal prior to initial physical manifestation though the Word of GOD which all was created by did indeed proceed from HIS breath.

And in an attempt to be clear; by "HIM" i mean the utter fullness of GOD, and not the image there of.

1. Not taken by "seized by force" but "derived from" .... I'm not sure why you took the other meaning.

2. Jesus was eternal before his manifestation as Jesus of Nazareth. He says, "Before Abraham was, I am" and that the devils fear his name because "I beheld Satan fall like lightning from heaven." And the gospel of John does not say that the Word made a flesh, but that the Word was made flesh. Jesus in the fullest sense was (and is) eternal. He even uses this designation as part of his title: "I am the first and the last" and "Which was, and is, and is to come."

1 Timothy 1:15-17 KJV
(15) This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
(16) Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
(17) Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Isaiah 40:28 KJV
(28) Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding.

Who is the Creator of the ends of the earth? Colossians tells us that it is the Son of God. Therefore, the Son of God is everlasting.

Colossians 1:13-17 KJV
(13) Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
(14) In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
(15) Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
(16) For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
(17) And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

So yes, depending on how we Word it (if we use the words) we can say both that the Word (John 1st chapter) and the image of the invisible God (or the Son) created all things.

 

[Rosenritter]

Well, let's just follow the yellow brick road and see if I had no reason. I was following along talking about our triune God, and innocently gave a verse that is uniformly accepted as speaking of God. (Rather than "me, myself, and I" as you proposed.) Then five or six pages later (after conversing on different subjects) you suddenly decide to challenge my quote.

Then what? You're offended by my Martian comment. You carry on even more....even longer...on and on with your lectures. My "snark comment" was not only honest, it was required. :banana:

1. You wanted to say that "Let us make man in our image" was one person of God talking to other persons of God, one big happy poly-family.

2. I responded that the angels were also present, thus the passage is not conclusive as to whether God was speaking to himself or representative of angels

3. You realized that this undermined the knee-jerk Trinity proof-text and then you proceeded into troll mode. You preferred to mock "angels were present" with "there could have been Martians" even though you also acknowledged that angels were present.

That's why your snark is dishonest. If you had actually believed that angels were not present (or that Martians had something to do with this) then your response would have been honest, regardless of how obnoxious you had been about it.

 

[Rosenritter]

I'll have to answer this bit by bit, and I might not be able to answer everything right now, as I've got a busy day

Firstly, I did say that God foreknew what would happen to Jesus, and that includes him being crucified, and I did say that God foretold it through the prophets, and Jesus fulfilled those prophesies and was willing to suffer as he did to bare witness to the truth and save as many as he could through the gospel, thus showing us that he is the Messiah. What I don't agree on, is that the crucifixion was Gods plan for salvation. We are saved through Christ Jesus, by believing on him and the gospel, through faith by the grace of God.

Also, why to you think that this following verse means the cross?

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Thanks

I realize you are answering in stages, but I still don't understand the answer thus far. "God foresaw" the crucifixion, so he prophesied it? Do you understand the future as a fixed thing that God cannot change, or rather something that happens as influenced by its actors (including God?)

You asked, "why do you think the following verse means the cross?"

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

It would mean "the cross" in the sense of all the cross represents, rather than specific reference to a cross. There is enmity between the serpent and the woman means the devil and mankind rather than meaning women have fear of physical snakes. Or ... thinking about this now, Revelation does say something about the Serpent seeking to destroy the Woman and it might have additional application there. I won't be dogmatic on that.

"It shall bruise they head" - the bruise to the head is a fatal wound. Jesus will literally destroy the devil in his time, but he will also destroy his seed in the same stroke.

Hebrews 2:14 KJV
(14) Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

"... and thou shalt bruise his heel."

This is not done without a wound. The bruise to the head is fatal, the devil won't come back after he is reduced to ashes and become no more. The bruise to the heel can be healed. Jesus was slain, but rose again.

That passage is well recognized as pertaining to Jesus and the devil. For example, pull up three different commentaries and I'm sure at least two of them will comment on this (if not also the third.) For example, Barnes, Gill, and Clarke (the first three I checked) agree on this point. Besides, if it does not refer to this, what does it refer to? It would seem rather strange to have a random prediction that one of Eve's children would step on the head of a snake sometime in the next couple years.

 

[Rosenritter]

You are wrong, Michael.

... if you read that carefully he actually agreed with your position.

 

[Rosenritter]

How can you ever call discussing God such a thing?

Are you really unfamiliar with the common idiom "beating a dead horse" that you don't know what it means? Google it.

 

[Rosenritter]

How can you ever call discussing God such a thing?

If you are going to be critical and step into another conversation at least pay attention. The issue was as to whether Abraham lied or gave a prophecy when he said that God would provide a lamb.

 

[God's Truth]

... if you read that carefully he actually agreed with your position.

I don't read things into what he said that are not there, just like you did with glorydazed. Michael is a trinitarian.

 

[God's Truth]

Are you really unfamiliar with the common idiom "beating a dead horse" that you don't know what it means? Google it.

How do you ever get that I don't know what it means? Stop being so bent on trying to degrade others.

We are in a debate group and some of us here have been speaking about the same thing for years and years. It is never ever to be compared to beating a dead horse.

 

[God's Truth]

If you are going to be critical and step into another conversation at least pay attention. The issue was as to whether Abraham lied or gave a prophecy when he said that God would provide a lamb.

Popsthebuilder won't admit the truth that Abraham, Noah, and all sinned at times BUT WERE still the ones God favored, called perfect, and righteous. They did what God said to do, and when they sinned they were sorry and repented. There is rejoicing in heaven when someone repents.

Pops has been going against me for a long time now because other people told him that I said all the saved are perfect. He then called me corrupt many times for saying that, he even said worse to me than that.

He refuses to accept the scriptures that call the saved perfect, and finds a way to still slander me.

He won't even bring himself to say Noah and Abraham sinned, even though the Bible shows us they did; yet, God called them perfect.

 

[God's Truth]

Popsthebuilder called God the Father an It; and defended it by slandering me.

He also went against me for saying the saved are perfect and holy.

He has false pride and acts like he is so humble for not saying he is made perfect BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS.

Pops denial that we can preach the truth that Jesus' shed blood on the cross makes people holy and perfect is something he needs to stop going against.

God is the Almighty and His blood shed on the cross does something amazing, it washes away sins and makes people born again, makes them perfect and holy.

Pops goes against that.

 

[popsthebuilder]

1. Not taken by "seized by force" but "derived from" .... I'm not sure why you took the other meaning.

2. Jesus was eternal before his manifestation as Jesus of Nazareth. He says, "Before Abraham was, I am" and that the devils fear his name because "I beheld Satan fall like lightning from heaven." And the gospel of John does not say that the Word made a flesh, but that the Word was made flesh. Jesus in the fullest sense was (and is) eternal. He even uses this designation as part of his title: "I am the first and the last" and "Which was, and is, and is to come."

1 Timothy 1:15-17 KJV
(15) This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
(16) Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
(17) Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Isaiah 40:28 KJV
(28) Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding.

Who is the Creator of the ends of the earth? Colossians tells us that it is the Son of God. Therefore, the Son of God is everlasting.

Colossians 1:13-17 KJV
(13) Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
(14) In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
(15) Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
(16) For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
(17) And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

So yes, depending on how we Word it (if we use the words) we can say both that the Word (John 1st chapter) and the image of the invisible God (or the Son) created all things.

I agree that the Spirit of GOD is literally eternal. It is Jesus the man that was not.

 

[popsthebuilder]

I realize you are answering in stages, but I still don't understand the answer thus far. "God foresaw" the crucifixion, so he prophesied it? Do you understand the future as a fixed thing that God cannot change, or rather something that happens as influenced by its actors (including God?)

You asked, "why do you think the following verse means the cross?"



It would mean "the cross" in the sense of all the cross represents, rather than specific reference to a cross. There is enmity between the serpent and the woman means the devil and mankind rather than meaning women have fear of physical snakes. Or ... thinking about this now, Revelation does say something about the Serpent seeking to destroy the Woman and it might have additional application there. I won't be dogmatic on that.

"It shall bruise they head" - the bruise to the head is a fatal wound. Jesus will literally destroy the devil in his time, but he will also destroy his seed in the same stroke.

Hebrews 2:14 KJV
(14) Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

"... and thou shalt bruise his heel."

This is not done without a wound. The bruise to the head is fatal, the devil won't come back after he is reduced to ashes and become no more. The bruise to the heel can be healed. Jesus was slain, but rose again.

That passage is well recognized as pertaining to Jesus and the devil. For example, pull up three different commentaries and I'm sure at least two of them will comment on this (if not also the third.) For example, Barnes, Gill, and Clarke (the first three I checked) agree on this point. Besides, if it does not refer to this, what does it refer to? It would seem rather strange to have a random prediction that one of Eve's children would step on the head of a snake sometime in the next couple years.

It is for a sign that woman and her seed will fight with deceit and temptation all their days, but that they will be victorious ultimately as Christ was, so shall they be.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Popsthebuilder won't admit the truth that Abraham, Noah, and all sinned at times BUT WERE still the ones God favored, called perfect, and righteous. They did what God said to do, and when they sinned they were sorry and repented. There is rejoicing in heaven when someone repents.

Pops has been going against me for a long time now because other people told him that I said all the saved are perfect. He then called me corrupt many times for saying that, he even said worse to me than that.

He refuses to accept the scriptures that call the saved perfect, and finds a way to still slander me.

He won't even bring himself to say Noah and Abraham sinned, even though the Bible shows us they did; yet, God called them perfect.

Again; I never said or insinuated that the saved in Christ won't be found perfect in the sight of GOD. I insinuated that you weren't saved.

I didn't deny their sin, only that it was imparted unto them.


Keep misrepresenting me and my words. I like it when people make my work easy for me.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Popsthebuilder called God the Father an It; and defended it by slandering me.

He also went against me for saying the saved are perfect and holy.

He has false pride and acts like he is so humble for not saying he is made perfect BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS.

Pops denial that we can preach the truth that Jesus' shed blood on the cross makes people holy and perfect is something he needs to stop going against.

God is the Almighty and His blood shed on the cross does something amazing, it washes away sins and makes people born again, makes them perfect and holy.

Pops goes against that.

GOD ITSELF will rebuke you for the knowing lies you spread about the student and seeker of the Lord and His will.