The Trinity

[popsthebuilder]

Luke: 10. 41. And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things: 42. But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her.

 

[God's Truth]

You are the only one speaking of a mother.

That is not truth.

My whole point is that spirit isn't a guy or a girl and GOD is all encompassing. And created both guy and girl.

The Spirit is that of God the Father and Jesus Christ the Son.

No one said you had to call GOD a her and you know it.

Don't start that again.
Don't act like you are correcting me and stop treating me as if I am ridiculous.

I referred to GOD as IT and you try to tell me it's a guy.

I told you God calls Himself a Father and a He.

I told you He came as a Man.

I told you Jesus is our example and Jesus calls God 'Father'.

Oh wait; that isn't what you are saying? And you aren't convicting me of sin, so then what is it you call yourself doing other than belittling my personal faith which I have already made clear?

Is that what you are doing when I tell you my beliefs?
Be careful how you judge, it is probably what you are guilty of doing.

Can you not grasp that GOD the Spirit that is in all and through which all exists and is sustained isn't limited to any sexualities?

God's Spirit is in the saved, not in the unsaved.

You are bent on calling the Spirit he, which is fine if that's what you are comfortable with.

That is what the Written Word of God says.

God's Spirit is Jesus Christ. Jesus is a Son of God. Evidently you want to change what the written Word of God says. You can no more convince me that God is a Mother too, anymore than you can convince me that Jesus wasn't really a male but rather neither male or female.
Don't forget that Jesus was circumcised.

I have expressed that I am comfortable with any of the three but that GOD in truth and in fullness isn't limited to being a guy or a girl because it literally created both and encompasses and permeates all. So if you find it good to call IT HIM, then fine, but if you rebuke me about this again without just cause then I will indeed take great offence.

If the truth offends you then the truth offends you. I go by what God says and unless you can show He didn't mean 'He' but rather meant 'It', then you are speaking error.

You attribute every possible characteristic to the male persona... I'm interested in no such thing as GOD is spirit and not one or two or three people.

You are the one who gave God female characteristics.
Again, God is Spirit and Jesus is the Spirit and Jesus came as a Man.

 

[Bright Raven]

The scriptures in Corinthians plainly say the Lord is the Spirit.
Those scriptures are speaking of Jesus as the Lord.

In Revelation, all those scriptures that say the Spirit says, it is what Jesus says.


To the Church in Ephesus
Revelation 2:2 “To the angel of the church in Ephesus write:

These are the words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand and walks among the seven golden lampstands.

That says it it the words of Jesus.


2 I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked people, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false. 3 You have persevered and have endured hardships for my name, and have not grown weary.

4 Yet I hold this against you:


That is still about what JESUS says.



You have forsaken the love you had at first. 5 Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place. 6 But you have this in your favor: You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

7 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.


Did you hear that? The scripture says it is what the SPIRIT SAYS.
The Spirit is Jesus.

It is too bad that you cannot properly exegete the passages.

 

[God's Truth]

It is too bad that you cannot properly exegete the passages.

Why don't you try instead of just giving opinions about me?

Notice this is the second time now?

Why not explain it, or maybe find a site with a commentator that you agree with and post it here?

 

[Bright Raven]

Why don't you try instead of just giving opinions about me?

Notice this is the second time now?

Why not explain it, or maybe find a site with a commentator that you agree with and post it here?

If it is the second time, it must be important. Your way of interpretation is improper. That is why I have addressed it.

 

[God's Truth]

If it is the second time, it must be important. Your way of interpretation is improper. That is why I have addressed it.

You haven't addressed the scriptures I posted.

I don't care about people's opinions.

Prove it that those scriptures are not saying the Spirit is Jesus.

 

[Rosenritter]

I have no problem acknowledging scripture. It's your silly interpretations I can't respect.

You're simply reaping what you sow. Don't like it? Oh well.

Oh then please help us oh Wise Glorydaz the Disrespectful One. Who are these "sons of God" that "shouted for joy" when the foundations of the earth were laid, if they be not the angels?

 

[Rosenritter]

Let's just look at what a mediator actually does.....he makes peace. CHRIST gave Himself a ransom on behalf of all mankind's sin.

1 Tim. 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.​

Yes, Christ was mediator as man and as God. He qualified.

Galatians 3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.​

As for the intercession in Hebrews it's as to the priesthood....not as mediator.

Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.​ Heb. 7:24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. 25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.​

When Jesus was resurrected, He sent the Holy Spirit to make intercession for us.

Glory, the role of the priesthood before was to be the mediators between God and men. "Priesthood... not as mediator" seems like you're missing the point of the priesthood. Look to where the high priest came before God once a year in Atonement. It's the same model.

 

[Rosenritter]

Incognito? Jesus Christ shows us to he's not the father!

And the following makes it clear that Jesus isn't the father.

He came to do the father's will
He was sent by the father
He said that the father had given him work to finish and that he does his work.
He says that the father has given him power over all flesh.
He was anointed by the father
He prayed to the father and not only prayed but fell on his face and prayed to him.
He is set on the right hand of the father.
He is set in his father's throne. With the father.
He said he and the father will make their abode in us.
He said that without the father he could do nothing and that the father is greater than he.
He said that he was going to be with his father.
He says he came from the father.
He taught us to pray to our father.
As he prayed to the father, He said eternal life is to know you the only true God as Jesus Christ whom you have sent.
He asked the father to forgive those who crucified him.
He said nobody comes to the father except through him.
He spoke to the father and said into your hands I commend my Spirit.
He said that he has been given authority over all heaven and earth, from whom? The father.

And there's these verses

Matthew 11

All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.

John 5

The Father loves the Son and has given all things into His hand.

Ephesians 1

That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set himat his own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:And hath put al things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

And all of John 17 makes it pretty clear that Jesus isn't the father!

Marhig, when I use two to three sentences only, and ask you one direct question, how come you won't provide a direct answer to that one question? If God had come with thunder and lightning and destroying cities in his wake to prove his status and divinity, would they have crucified him?

 

[Rosenritter]

Either provide the scripture saying we must refer to almighty GOD, the One Creator GOD, as he, or please desist altogether. I've made it clear, or tried, to make it clear, that I am looking for scripture that stated we are to refer to GOD ALMIGHTY as he. Or scripture saying not to refer to GOD as IT or she would too work. Even scripture saying GOD (Spirit) has a sexuality at all would suffice.
Without those, the topic is dead in the water.



I don't care that GOD is referenced as he, I want the command. Wait... Wait.... There isn't one, so please do stop after you explain why you referred to pagan god's when you know good and well I am not.

Hammer? I like hammers

THOU SHALT NOT TAKE THE NAME OF THE LORD THY GOD IN VAIN.

By assigning Him who calls himself "I am he" the name and gender of "she" you are taking his name very lightly. His name is his to decide, not yours. That's one of the most basic and early commandments in scripture.

 

[Rosenritter]

Uhm, I'm not sure Abraham lying to his son is a reference of Jesus being GOD. That was a keen inference though.

How do you figure that Abraham lied to his son? God did provide the lamb.

Genesis 22:8-13 KJV
(8) And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
(9) And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood.
(10) And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.
(11) And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
(12) And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.
(13) And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.

 

[Rosenritter]

Look at that Rossenritter, she says 'no duh' when you said she doesn't understand.
She thinks she can twist it to make what we say twisted and strange.
Some craftiness I would say. Now the one without understanding is bragging that she doesn't understand and is trying to humiliate you for understanding.

Or read in a charitable sense, she acknowledges that she does not claim perfect understanding, which would be appropriate humility, in addition to being in line with official Trinity teaching that says that God is not completely knowable.

I am not interested in pitting the two of you against each other. I would be far happier if you and Glory would be able to talk peaceably with each other and others that they disagree with. If that were to ever happen I would count this thread topic as a sounding success regardless of whether anyone was convinced differently on Trinity doctrine than when they entered.

 

[glorydaz]

Uhm, I'm not sure Abraham lying to his son is a reference of Jesus being GOD. That was a keen inference though.

Abraham wasn't lying....he had faith in God. He wasn't sure how God would do it, but he had faith that he and his son would return. God will provide - Jehovahjireh

Gen. 22:5 And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ***; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you.​

 

[Rosenritter]

I am not going beyond what is written by the influence and Spirit of GOD.

Is this a division among us? I have clearly made my request to you and others.
I do not doubt that the title Father brings about inferences that the Spirit is a he, but I do recall you yourself saying the observable qualities of GOD can equally be too ascribed to male and female characteristics, or something very similar.

Does a male alone beget life of itself or is the seed needed? But GOD is One and need no thing; so is the capacity to produce within GOD alone?

Is male alone long suffering and often merciful?

Does male alone nurture and bring up?

Does male sustain the infant with milk?

I ask one last time for you to substantiate your words against my very faith with the sacred writ we hold with such esteem, and do look to for straightening and edification.

Please show me within context that the Spirit requires us to refer to IT as a male and nothing but.

If you cannot do this, then I ask that you please consider your next post, if you are with me or not. For my words are in no way against the Spirit, and if they are, may GOD be so gracious and merciful as to make it evident and manifest through HIS written Word.

peace

I'll point out that your logic for supporting "she" is lacking here. I would hope that I would also be described as long-suffering and merciful, but it would still be disrespectful to describe me as "she" after I have established myself as male.

Regardless, even if for no other reason, it should be sufficient that the body of Christian saints recognizes calling God "she" to be offensive and/or blasphemous. Even if for some reason you alone were right in this regard, you would need no other reason. See 1 Corinthians 8, especially the latter half of the chapter for application.

As a rule, the people that refer to God as "she" are not friends of the living God of the Bible. It refers to a different god, one that opposes our God and sees him as an enemy. You don't belong in that crowd, so don't fly their colors.

1 Thessalonians 5:22 KJV
(22) Abstain from all appearance of evil.

 

[God's Truth]

Does male sustain the infant with milk?

Please show me within context that the Spirit requires us to refer to IT as a male and nothing but.

There you gave implication of female characteristics.

Nowhere does the scripture refer to God as 'It'.

That doesn't make it sin for me to reference GOD how i please as long as it is understood to whom or what I refer.

Tell me now; do you convict me of sin because I feel free to refer to GOD equally as HE/ SHE/ IT, yet more so IT because spirit is asexual or without sexuality?

You scolded me earlier for claiming you claimed we can call God a 'She'.

Here we see you refer to Him as a 'She'.

 

[Rosenritter]

Confused about what? Don't assume things because I don't divide faith along symbolism for GOD.

is GOD all encompassing?

So then it encompasses all?

So then how is it you find it correct to limit GOD to the male characteristics of creation?

I'm going to drop it because it is irrelevant.

If you wish to pursue it further then, well okay, but don't expect much of a response without the scripture I asked for. And don't speak to me about adding to scripture all while concluding GOD is limited in any way by the characteristics found within ITS' creation.

This has nothing to do about where the male and female characteristics that we see manifested in God's creation after his own image came from. This has to do with whether we should address God by the name and names he gives for himself, names that have meaning and were given for a reason, or whether we should assign different names, names that also have their own meanings for reasons other than God gave.

Male and female came from God. So did men, angels, cows, sheep, lions, fish, and cockroaches.

1) Is it appropriate to speak of God as the Lamb? Yes, he calls himself the Lamb of God.
2) Is it appropriate to speak of God as the Lion? Yes, he calls himself the Lion of Judah.
3) Is it appropriate to speak of God as a fish? No, he does not call himself a fish.
4) Is it appropriate to speak of God as a cow? or a cockroach? No, he does not call himself these things!
5) Is it appropriate to speak of God as "he?" Yes, he presents himself as a Father, a Son, a brother, even as "I am he."
6) Is it appropriate to speak of God as a "she?" NO, he never calls himself our mother, a daughter, or our sister. This carries other meanings.

 

[Rosenritter]

Because I am doing no wrong yet you have concluded now that I both speak of confusion though it is simple logic that a thing that created and encompasses all indeed would never be limited to the characteristics of only some, and you just did nearly accuse me of idol worship.

If it is not sin and not confusion and not leading astray then what harm is it? If it is not those things then is it not truth? If it is any of those things then do show me outright with the scripture you do know so well. This isn't sarcasm but a sincere plea. If you cannot conclude the truth in this matter then I will have lost something I had held inside towards you. Not that I am of any worth, or my words of any weight, but that a peculiar bond very well may be broken, not by my will, but because this very key, very simple thing should conclude in a very simple manner and though I would wish to simply drop it, I cannot.

peace

It's actually much better that we discuss this among ourselves in a (presumably) peaceful and loving manner among brothers and sisters.

 

[God's Truth]

Or read in a charitable sense, she acknowledges that she does not claim perfect understanding, which would be appropriate humility, in addition to being in line with official Trinity teaching that says that God is not completely knowable.

I am not interested in pitting the two of you against each other. I would be far happier if you and Glory would be able to talk peaceably with each other and others that they disagree with. If that were to ever happen I would count this thread topic as a sounding success regardless of whether anyone was convinced differently on Trinity doctrine than when they entered.

Stop reading things in where it is not.

You are the first one to jump in a try to verbally attack me.

 

[God's Truth]

It's actually much better that we discuss this among ourselves in a (presumably) peaceful and loving manner among brothers and sisters.

Stop being a hypocrite.

 

[Rosenritter]

The scriptures in Corinthians plainly say the Lord is the Spirit.
Those scriptures are speaking of Jesus as the Lord.

In Revelation, all those scriptures that say the Spirit says, it is what Jesus says.


To the Church in Ephesus
Revelation 2:2 “To the angel of the church in Ephesus write:

These are the words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand and walks among the seven golden lampstands.

That says it it the words of Jesus.


2 I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked people, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false. 3 You have persevered and have endured hardships for my name, and have not grown weary.

4 Yet I hold this against you:


That is still about what JESUS says.



You have forsaken the love you had at first. 5 Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place. 6 But you have this in your favor: You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

7 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.


Did you hear that? The scripture says it is what the SPIRIT SAYS.
The Spirit is Jesus.

GE, although I'm a bit sympathetic to your position I don't think that's a sufficient proof. From Raven's perspective you have several persons tag-teaming. It could also be read as Jesus speaking in one place, and then saying that the Spirit would also be saying the same thing to them in their hearts.