The Trinity

The Trinity


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popsthebuilder

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There will be some alive when Jesus comes again.

Those who are alive when he comes, they will be changed in a twinkling of the eye.

Those who have died are with him in heaven and will receive their resurrected bodies.
Not that I doubt what you say here, just that I am ignorant.

Could you please show me scripture that attests to us being in heaven before the end times as opposed to dead?

I can think of one off the top of my head regarding a particular thief.

Could you please reference more?

Thank you in advance; I do look forward to your reply as I do know your extensive knowledge of scripture far exceeds my own.


peace

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Lazy afternoon

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Not that I doubt what you say here, just that I am ignorant.

Could you please show me scripture that attests to us being in heaven before the end times as opposed to dead?

I can think of one off the top of my head regarding a particular thief.

Could you please reference more?

Thank you in advance; I do look forward to your reply as I do know your extensive knowledge of scripture far exceeds my own.


peace

Sent from my Z983 using Tapatalk

When men die they do not go to Heaven or to hell.

They are dead until raised from the dead.

It is the error of spiritism which suggests people are alive when they are dead.

LA
 

God's Truth

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Making his soul an offering for sin, is Christ coming into this flesh to bare witness to the truth, and to suffer to do so. It pleased God to bruise him, because God knew that through Christs suffering, many would be saved through believing in him, through faith by the grace of God. He suffered to bare witness to the truth and that suffering included him denying his will, being persecuted, people baring false witness against him, being mocked, brutally scourged and murdered, yet he still gave out love, overcoming Satan and this world with the overwhelming love of God that filled his heart. And he even saved whilst dying on the cross, he saved the thief who had faith in him.

God commanded the people to use the blood of animals to atone for their sins.

It was a teaching tool about what was coming, Jesus Christ.

It was a shadow of Jesus.

Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.

Leviticus 17:11 For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one's life.

Exodus 29:38 “This is what you are to offer on the altar regularly each day: two lambs a year old. 39 Offer one in the morning and the other at twilight. 40 With the first lamb offer a tenth of an ephah of the finest flour mixed with a quarter of a hin of oil from pressed olives, and a quarter of a hin of wine as a drink offering. 41 Sacrifice the other lamb at twilight with the same grain offering and its drink offering as in the morning—a pleasing aroma, a food offering presented to the Lord.

42 “For the generations to come this burnt offering is to be made regularly at the entrance to the tent of meeting, before the Lord. There I will meet you and speak to you;

John 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Hebrews 9:22 According to the Law, in fact, nearly everything must be purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

Acts 8:32 This is the passage of Scripture the eunuch was reading: “He was led like a sheep to the slaughter, and as a lamb before its shearer is silent, so he did not open his mouth.

1 Corinthians 5:7 Get rid of the old yeast, so that you may be a new unleavened batch—as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed.

1 Peter 1:19 but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect.
Revelation 5:1 [ The Scroll and the Lamb ] Then I saw in the right hand of him who sat on the throne a scroll with writing on both sides and sealed with seven seals.

Revelation 5:6 Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing at the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. The Lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth.

Revelation 5:8 And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God’s people.

Revelation 5:12 In a loud voice they were saying: “Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and praise!”

Revelation 5:13 Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying: “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!”

Revelation 6:1 [ The Seals ] I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, “Come!”

Revelation 6:3 When the Lamb opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature say, “Come!”

Revelation 6:5 When the Lamb opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come!” I looked, and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand.

Revelation 6:7 When the Lamb opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, “Come!”

Revelation 6:16 They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!

Revelation 7:9 [ The Great Multitude in White Robes ] After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.

Revelation 7:10 And they cried out in a loud voice: “Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.”

Revelation 7:14 I answered, “Sir, you know.” And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Revelation 7:17 For the Lamb at the center of the throne will be their shepherd; ‘he will lead them to springs of living water.’ ‘And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.’”

Revelation 12:11 They triumphed over him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death.

Revelation 13:8 All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.

We are to partake in the sufferings of Christ, does that mean we have to be crucified too?

1 Peter 4:1

Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

1 Peter 4:13

But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

1 Peter 2:21

For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

As for your comment about forgiveness, I totally agree.

Anyway, I'm off to bed, it's past midnight here. :)

Good night.
 

Lazy afternoon

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So you reject this:

For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven,if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked.For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life.Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. For we walk by faith, not by sight.We are confideeent, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. - 2 Corinthians 5:1-8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Corinthians5:1-8&version=NKJV

One must follow the text to see that the believer who dies is only with the Lord when he is raised from the dead, clothed in his new body at the resurrection.

The same principle is given in this verse which men constantly misunderstand--

Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

It should be obvious that Jesus was referring to never dying AFTER being raised from the dead, as verse 25 is saying.

Anything else is spiritism taught by the RCC and people like Edgar Casey.

LA
 

God's Truth

New member
Not that I doubt what you say here, just that I am ignorant.

Could you please show me scripture that attests to us being in heaven before the end times as opposed to dead?

I can think of one off the top of my head regarding a particular thief.

Could you please reference more?

Thank you in advance; I do look forward to your reply as I do know your extensive knowledge of scripture far exceeds my own.


peace

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I don't know that I should post about it in this thread, as I have been banned before for allowing myself to be led to speak of things that are not the topic of the thread.

I would really like to discuss it with you. It was one of the first and main beliefs that I searched out with the greatest of desires after I was saved.
 

God's Truth

New member
One must follow the text to see that the believer who dies is only with the Lord when he is raised from the dead, clothed in his new body at the resurrection.

The same principle is given in this verse which men constantly misunderstand--

Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

It should be obvious that Jesus was referring to never dying AFTER being raised from the dead, as verse 25 is saying.

Anything else is spiritism taught by the RCC and people like Edgar Casey.

LA

Jesus is Spirit and teaches us about what is spiritual.

Our spirits living on after the death of the body is taught in the Bible.
 

God's Truth

New member
Obedience to what.

Give scriptures.

LA

Obedience to Jesus.

We are to believe that Jesus' blood washes us clean of the sins we repent of doing.

Titus 3:5 He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,

1 Corinthians 6:11 But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
 

popsthebuilder

New member
I don't know that I should post about it in this thread, as I have been banned before for allowing myself to be led to speak of things that are not the topic of the thread.

I would really like to discuss it with you. It was one of the first and main beliefs that I searched out with the greatest of desires after I was saved.
So who is gonna make the thread?


I would bet that a thread started my you would receive more views than mine. Or maybe someone else would like to start one and add a link if that's legal according to the site rules.

I must admit it seems quite important.

peace

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God's Truth

New member
So who is gonna make the thread?


I would bet that a thread started my you would receive more views than mine. Or maybe someone else would like to start one and add a link if that's legal according to the site rules.

I must admit it seems quite important.

peace

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I really do think you would get more views.

For some reason it is just not debated that much anymore, as it was years ago.

I think it is of major importance.
 

God's Truth

New member
When men die they do not go to Heaven or to hell.

They are dead until raised from the dead.

It is the error of spiritism which suggests people are alive when they are dead.

LA

You have told me a couple times before that you believe the spirits of the dead stay in their dead bodies/bones. Do you still believe that?
 

lifeisgood

New member
Can you show me where it says this in the bible please, written just like that? (above) Thanks

Hebrews 9:22

And where does it say this in the Bible? Written like that? (Above)

Romans 9

Not according to Jesus

Matt 16:21 “From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day.”

Luke 7:50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

Luke 18:42 And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.

ALL dependent on Jesus Christ and His finished/completed work on the Cross of Calvary.

No, we are saved by the grace of God through faith, through our Lord Jesus Christ! We are then to continue in the goodness of God and live by his will, bare our cross, and endure to the end.

And here's a few other verses about salvation that don't include death

Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 1

Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

ALL because of Jesus Christ and His finished/completed work on the Cross of Calvary.


Now, you can reject Jesus Christ and His finished/completed work on the Cross of Calvary as the only way to be saved.
 

lifeisgood

New member
God cleans us of the sins we repent of instead of our bringing animals to sacrifice.

What do you do with the sins you forgot to repent of.

It is never ever wrong to obey Jesus.

You can start by selling everything you have, then start in Jerusalem preaching the gospel, etc.

Jesus is the way and he tells us what to do to be saved.

Come and let me give you My (Jesus') rest.

hahahaha You have to repent of those sins in order for them to be passed through the blood.

And how do you think that is done.

You have the scriptures and should know what is sinful. If you don't know, then how do you not know to stop doing them?

There are people right now, in the Vatican for example, repenting of their sins sincerely by walking on their knees until they bleed, etc., etc., etc. Do you think that they have repented of their sins?

You mean a sin like sitting where a woman with a menstrual cycle sat?

You repent of that every month? Is that what you're talking about?

You need to explain what you are talking about.

What do you, gt, do with the sin(s) you have not repented of because you, gt, forgot you sinned that particular sin that God sees as sin but you have forgotten to repent of just because you are human.
 

JudgeRightly

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I wholly agree with that, but could you please attempt to explain how it relates to us not having a new body instantly upon death?

Thank you in advance.


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Remember the thief on the cross next to Jesus, the one who believed? How soon did Jesus say that the believing thief would be with Jesus in Paradise?
 

popsthebuilder

New member
What do you do with the sins you forgot to repent of.



You can start by selling everything you have, then start in Jerusalem preaching the gospel, etc.



Come and let me give you My (Jesus') rest.



And how do you think that is done.



There are people right now, in the Vatican for example, repenting of their sins sincerely by walking on their knees until they bleed, etc., etc., etc. Do you think that they have repented of their sins?



You repent of that every month? Is that what you're talking about?



What do you, gt, do with the sin(s) you have not repented of because you, gt, forgot you sinned that particular sin that God sees as sin but you have forgotten to repent of just because you are human.
You need to stop your attacks. Period.

If a point is to be made then make it clearly and consicely with both the reference within context of the individual quoted and the scriptural support for your own opinion.

The act is very tiresome and if it isn't an act then it is quite sad.

Stand straight and attack straight forward with truth, not vanity and words of contempt and envy.

What profit does any gain from the degredation, belittlement, and accusations of another?

Do you actually know something to be wrong? You do? Well then please; do show it to all in a manner that will actually help all.

No? No way?

What are we taught by the teachings and example and humility of the beloved Lord GOD and Christ, and the Spirit that we do hope upon and have faith in?

Do you not know? Has it not affected you personally?

Relinquish pride and hope on His peace....

What do you do with the sins you forgot to repent of.



You can start by selling everything you have, then start in Jerusalem preaching the gospel, etc.



Come and let me give you My (Jesus') rest.



And how do you think that is done.



There are people right now, in the Vatican for example, repenting of their sins sincerely by walking on their knees until they bleed, etc., etc., etc. Do you think that they have repented of their sins?



You repent of that every month? Is that what you're talking about?



What do you, gt, do with the sin(s) you have not repented of because you, gt, forgot you sinned that particular sin that God sees as sin but you have forgotten to repent of just because you are human.


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JudgeRightly

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How many years is a day to the Lord?

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And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.” - Luke 23:43 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke23:43&version=NKJV

Jesus said "today" the thief would be with him in heaven.

Not a week from then, not a month, year, decade, century, or millenium. "Today."

How long after he said that until the end of that day? I would imagine only a few hours.

You're thinking: "Oh, but what about 2 Peter 3:8? I've got you there."

But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. - 2 Peter 3:8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Peter3:8&version=NKJV

Before you go there, you should probably look at what the context of the verse is, and to do that, you should read the verses before and after it. I'll quote them here for you:

Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle (in both of which I stir up your pure minds by way of reminder),that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us, the apostles of the Lord and Savior,knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts,and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.”For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water,by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water.But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. - 2 Peter 3:1-9 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Peter3:1-9&version=NKJV

Note verse 9:

"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

"The Lord is not slack. . . but is longsuffering toward us".

So what is being discussed? God's patience and capability.

"One day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as a day" is talking about God's patience towards humanity and that He is extraordinarily capable, not about how He experiences time. God is love, and love is patient. He is, as verse 9 states, "longsuffering towards us."

If this verse meant that God is outside of time, patience is one of the many things that God could not have.

The verse also shows us that God is extraordinarily capable, doing in a single day what men may think would take eons, for instance, stretching out the heavens (on a Wednesday, btw).

The answer to my question above is this:

The thief on the cross next to Jesus was with Jesus that very day in heaven.
 
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