The Trinity

[Lon]

Stop flapping your jaw so much, it could come all the way unhinged.

:think: "Stop flapping your lips so much that they get sore and puffy, because if that happens, I'll make you hang your head out the car window and watch them beat you to death!"

(something like that...heard it a long time ago)


My other favorite: "I'm going to rip your nose off and shove it in backwards, so when you sneeze, you blow your brains out!"

 

[keypurr]

Jesus is the LORD.... deal with it!

See what Paul QUOTES about the LORD Jesus Christ:

Phil 2:9-11 (KJV)​

(2:9) Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: (2:10) That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth, and [things] under the earth; (2:11) And [that] every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
​

This quote of Paul's comes from HERE:

Isa 45:22-23 (KJV)​

(45:22) Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I [am] God, and [there is] none else. (45:23) I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth [in] righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. ​

If you cannot understand that Christ is the LORD, there is no hope for you.

You are a God denier kp.

You need to learn to read RD.

You do not seem to know the difference between LORD and Lord.

I believe in the same God that Jesus Christ has. The God he taught us to pray to. You are entrenched in old silly traditions of the churches that have roots in the RCC.

Paul never speaks of the LORD Jesus, he does of the Lord Jesus who was made Lord by his God. But you do not see that do you?

Your depending on your traditions to let you see God. That will not work. For the traditions ad doctrines of men are worthless.

Believe in the words of your Lord when he told you that his Father is the only true God.

And to say that I deny the creator is a real stupid statement. It only shows your ignorance to what I have been posting.

Sent from my VS835 using TOL mobile app

 

[Tambora]

Oh Boo Hoo another negative rep.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Lon]

You need to learn to read RD.

You do not seem to know the difference between LORD and Lord.

I believe in the same God that Jesus Christ has. The God he taught us to pray to. You are entrenched in old silly traditions of the churches that have roots in the RCC.

Paul never speaks of the LORD Jesus, he does of the Lord Jesus who was made Lord by his God. But you do not see that do you?

Your depending on your traditions to let you see God. That will not work. For the traditions ad doctrines of men are worthless.

Believe in the words of your Lord when he told you that his Father is the only true God.

And to say that I deny the creator is a real stupid statement. It only shows your ignorance to what I have been posting.

:nono:

lord - any man who is called lord

Lord - Father, Son, Spirit, or start of a sentence

LORD - YHWH (O.T. only)

Btw, Read a professor of Aramaic who says he thinks the Peshitta was original. Sadly, for you, he reads Aramaic and insists every occasion of the Lord Jesus Christ saying "I AM" is to be translated clearly from the Aramaic "I am God." :jawdrop:

 

[JudgeRightly]

No, JudgeRightly, Jesus didn't change his life giving words.

Where did I say that He did?

That is not what the word of God says.

Let's take a look at this, and don't read ahead.

Then Jesus went out from there and departed to the region of Tyre and Sidon.And behold, a woman of Canaan came from that region and cried out to Him, saying, “Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David! My daughter is severely demon-possessed.” - Matthew 15:21-22 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew15:21-22&version=NKJV

Now, what do you think Jesus, based on your beliefs, should do?

...

If you said He should heal her daughter, you'd be wrong.

It says He answered her not a word.

Based on your beliefs, what do you think His disciples did when they heard that? Did they say, "Jesus, what are you doing? Heal this woman's daughter"?

...

If you said yes, you'd be wrong.

But He answered her not a word. And His disciples came and urged Him, saying, “Send her away, for she cries out after us.” - Matthew 15:23 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew15:23&version=NKJV

They told Him to send her away. Based on your beliefs, do you think that Jesus would have rebuked them at this point? Saying that she should go because her daughter has been healed?

...

If you said yes, you'd be wrong.

But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” - Matthew 15:24 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew15:24&version=NKJV

Jesus said He was not sent to the Gentiles, He was sent ONLY TO ISRAEL.

In fact, even though
Then she came and worshiped Him, saying, “Lord, help me!” - Matthew 15:25 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew15:25&version=NKJV

He STILL refused her,
But He answered and said, “It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the little dogs.” - Matthew 15:26 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew15:26&version=NKJV

He called her a "little dog," because to Jews, Gentiles were just dogs. He said it's not good to take the children's bread (the "children" being Israel) and throw it to the little dogs (the "dogs" being the Gentiles, and He used the diminuitive form of the word for dog (like cigarette, dogette)).

But what she said next shocked Him:

And she said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the little dogs eat the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.”Then Jesus answered and said to her, “O woman, great is your faith! Let it be to you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed from that very hour. - Matthew 15:27-28 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew15:27-28&version=NKJV

We see this happening a few times throughout the gospels, where a Gentile would come or be brought to Him, and He refused to help them, because He was focused on Israel and not the Gentiles. It was only because her faith in Him was so great that He did anything. But He had to walk a very fine line: Had He healed the woman's daughter too soon, we would have completely missed the point, that He was only sent to Israel, but refuse to heal the daughter and Christians (and people who stand against God) would say that He would have been cruel to her.

Anyways, the point is this: Jesus Himself said that He was sent only to Israel, and not the Gentiles.

Jesus says when he is crucified, then all could come to him to be saved.

Correct. However, the plan was originally that Israel would be saved, and then go out to the world to teach the world about Jesus. God wanted a "spokesnation" to reach the nations of the world, to teach them about Christ's sacrifice for their sins.

However, when Israel utterly rejected their Messiah (Acts 7:51-60), at the very moment when the Jews killed Stephen, God said, "I've had enough of Israel rejecting Me, that's it, I'm going to cut off Israel, and I'm moving to Plan B."

That was the tipping point. However, it wasn't until a bit later that He was able to cut them off and choose someone to be his spokesperson to the world (aka Saul, who then became Paul) (Acts 9).

You are badly mistaken, Jesus came with grace. That is what the Word of God says.

The Word of God shows that Jesus taught law, not grace. Not once did Jesus mention grace.

In fact, I challenge you to show me where, during His earthly ministry, Christ taught grace.

No. The law was taught until John the baptizer.

Tell me, GT, does this sound like grace to you? or law?

“For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." - Matthew 6:14-15 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew6:14-15&version=NKJV

Tell me GT, how does Jesus saying the above compare/contrast with this:

And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you. - Ephesians 4:32 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians4:32&version=NKJV

Does that sound like law or grace?

Jesus:
Step 1) Forgive others
Step 2) God will forgive you

Paul
Step 1) God has forgiven you
Step 2) Forgive others

Now, I don't know about you, but being a logical person, those two verses seem to contradict one another. I want to hear how you resolve them before I tell you how they in fact do not contradict.

Jesus did not teach the things of the old law.

Matthew 5-7 is Christ teaching law, and application of the law during the Millennial Kingdom.

Read for yourself:

John 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Read it and say it repeatedly, and believe.

Grace and truth came through Jesus, true. But that doesn't mean that Christ taught grace.

What? That is gross error.

Explain, please. You have not refuted what I said.

True believers uphold the law. See Romans 3:31.

You clearly do not understand Romans.

I encourage you to read through Romans a few times, QUICKLY, without trying to apply your beliefs to it.

We are not without a law.

By "we" do you mean humanity? Or Christians?

We are no longer UNDER the law; we have the law written on our hearts and minds, see Hebrews 10:16.

You're confusing Romans with Hebrews. Please don't. Romans was written to Gentiles. Hebrews was (SURPISE!) written to the Hebrews.

CHRISTIANS are no longer under the law, but under grace.

NON-CHRISTIANS are under the law, and will be condemned by it.

There was a change to that old law, see Hebrews 7:12.

Again, Hebrews was written to the Hebrews. It was not written to Christians. The law changed many times in the Bible (eg dietary laws).

That changed old law is our new law.

No, it is the new law for the Hebrews. Christians are not under the law.

All those who are saved have to obey the law, the new law, and the new law is in the New Covenant.

You put Christians under the law. You go against what the Bible says in Romans 6:14 and Galatians 5:18. We are dead to it.

The new law is the law of the Spirit; see Romans 8:2, the perfect law James 1:25.

But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does. - James 1:25 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James1:25&version=NKJV

Doing something to receive a reward?

Hmmm that seems like law... Context? Oh, right:

James, a bondservant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad: Greetings. - James 1:1 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James1:1&version=NKJV

AKA the diaspora, Jews who have been scattered.

GT, it would help your position greatly if you actually knew who the authors of the Bible were writing to, so that you could form your theology based on the Bible, and not try to fit the Bible to your theology.

It is the law that gives freedom, see James 2:12.

I think you need to reread that paragraph understanding that James is talking to Jews.

If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well;but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors.For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment. - James 2:8-13 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James2:8-13&version=NKJV

James, a bondservant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad: Greetings. - James 1:1 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James1:1&version=NKJV

Again, To the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad.

It is the LAW that requires faith, see Romans 3:27.

I will not reply to this until you read through Romans a few times to get an overview of what is said, because you clearly do not understand what is said in the book.

It is the law of Christ; see 1 Corinthians 9:21, and Galatians 6:2.

You really need to work on reading context.

For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win the more;and to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law, that I might win those who are under the law; to those who are without law, as without law (not being without law toward God, but under law toward Christ ), that I might win those who are without law; to the weak I became as weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.Now this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I may be partaker of it with you. - 1 Corinthians 9:19-23 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Corinthians9:19-23&version=NKJV

For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win the more;and to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law, that I might win those who are under the law;to those who are without law, as without law (not being without law toward God, but under law toward Christ ), that I might win those who are without law;to the weak I became as weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.Now this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I may be partaker of it with you. - 1 Corinthians 9:19-23 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Corinthians9:19-23&version=NKJV

The "law of Christ" is to love God and love one another.

You can't and don't live through Christ if you are not obeying Christ.

Where do you find that in Scripture?

Paul said:

“But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not!For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God.I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.” - Galatians 2:17-21 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians2:17-21&version=NKJV

We live by faith, not by obedience to any law.

 

[keypurr]

:nono:

lord - any man who is called lord

Lord - Father, Son, Spirit, or start of a sentence

LORD - YHWH (O.T. only)

Btw, Read a professor of Aramaic who says he thinks the Peshitta was original. Sadly, for you, he reads Aramaic and insists every occasion of the Lord Jesus Christ saying "I AM" is to be translated clearly from the Aramaic "I am God." :jawdrop:

Lord has more meaning than that Lon.

And you friend that can read Aramaic must realize that the OLD Peshitta was translated years ago in English and was full of errors. Like the Greek translations, Aramaic translations differ. And I do believe that Jesus said that he is I AM. Here are some of the verses he said it in.

Joh_4:26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.
Joh_6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
Joh_6:41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
Joh_6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
Joh_7:28 Then cried Jesus in the temple as he taught, saying, Ye both know me, and ye know whence I am: and I am not come of myself, but he that sent me is true, whom ye know not.
Joh_7:29 But I know him: for I am from him, and he hath sent me.
Joh_8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
Joh_8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
Joh_8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
Joh_8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
Joh_9:9 Some said, This is he: others said, He is like him: but he said, I am he.
Joh_10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
Joh_11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Joh_13:19 Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he.
Joh_14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Joh_15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

There are more but we don't need them.

The I AM verse about existing before Abraham only proves my thoughts. And it was not pertaining to Jesus, it was about the logos IN him that spoke through him.

 

[JudgeRightly]

The I AM verse about existing before Abraham only proves my thoughts. And it was not pertaining to Jesus, it was about the logos IN him that spoke through him.

Keypurr, did the Son of God become flesh? Or only indwell flesh?

 

[keypurr]

Keypurr, did the Son of God become flesh? Or only indwell flesh?

I believe that the spirit son became flesh by indwelling in Jesus.

The true Son of God is a spirit like his creator. Jesus is the body God provided to hold him.

Jesus Christ is the joined flesh and spirit son of the most high.

It all happened at the anointing of Jesus with the Holy Spirit AND POWER. Acts 10:38

 

[JudgeRightly]

I believe that the spirit son became flesh by indwelling in Jesus.

The true Son of God is a spirit like his creator. Jesus is the body God provided to hold him.

Jesus Christ is the joined flesh and spirit son of the most high.

It all happened at the anointing of Jesus with the Holy Spirit AND POWER. Acts 10:38

Keypurr, did the Son of God become a man? Or did He remain a spirit?

 

[keypurr]

Keypurr, did the Son of God become a man? Or did He remain a spirit?

Did not send his spirit back to his Father on the cross?

Did the Son of Man,logos, go back to the spirit world, I think so.

Because flesh and blood are not present in heaven.

SO our high priest must be in a spirit form.

However his flesh did not go to heaven right away, I think it was forty days later he was taken up.

Interesting topic to renew my thoughts in.

 

[keypurr]

Keypurr, did the Son of God become a man? Or did He remain a spirit?

Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Php 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Did not send his spirit back to his Father on the cross?

No, He went down into Hell when He died, not to Heaven.

Did the Son of Man,logos, go back to the spirit world, I think so.

See above.

Because flesh and blood are not present in heaven.

Keypurr, does a spirit have hands and feet?

SO our high priest must be in a spirit form.

Was the Spirit Son, as you call Him, ever not a spirit?

However his flesh did not go to heaven right away, I think it was forty days later he was taken up.

Can flesh walk through walls? Can flesh appear and disappear?

 

[keypurr]

Keypurr's bed time, catch ya when I can. God bless you all.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Php 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Jesus didn't take on a servant, He took on the form of one.

 

[God's Truth]

Where did I say that He did?

You said he did. YOU SAID Jesus changed his words for us.

Let's say there's a war, and the command is to dig a trench around the enemy, to prepare and build up your side's forces before attacking. So, the trench is built, and the forces are ready to move in, and the command comes in to push forward and attack, but there's this one soldier who refuses to do so, so the general asks him why he isn't moving forward, and the soldier says he has his order to stay where he is. The general tells him that the orders have been updated and he needs to push forward, but the soldier refuses, saying he's going to stay where he is.

You are like that soldier, GT, the orders have been updated, and you're refusing to move forward.

 

[God's Truth]

Let's take a look at this, and don't read ahead.

Then Jesus went out from there and departed to the region of Tyre and Sidon.And behold, a woman of Canaan came from that region and cried out to Him, saying, “Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David! My daughter is severely demon-possessed.” - Matthew 15:21-22 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew15:21-22&version=NKJV

Now, what do you think Jesus, based on your beliefs, should do?

...

If you said He should heal her daughter, you'd be wrong.

It says He answered her not a word.

Based on your beliefs, what do you think His disciples did when they heard that? Did they say, "Jesus, what are you doing? Heal this woman's daughter"?

...

If you said yes, you'd be wrong.

But He answered her not a word. And His disciples came and urged Him, saying, “Send her away, for she cries out after us.” - Matthew 15:23 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew15:23&version=NKJV

They told Him to send her away. Based on your beliefs, do you think that Jesus would have rebuked them at this point? Saying that she should go because her daughter has been healed?

...

If you said yes, you'd be wrong.

But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” - Matthew 15:24 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew15:24&version=NKJV

Jesus said He was not sent to the Gentiles, He was sent ONLY TO ISRAEL.

In fact, even though
Then she came and worshiped Him, saying, “Lord, help me!” - Matthew 15:25 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew15:25&version=NKJV

He STILL refused her,
But He answered and said, “It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the little dogs.” - Matthew 15:26 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew15:26&version=NKJV

He called her a "little dog," because to Jews, Gentiles were just dogs. He said it's not good to take the children's bread (the "children" being Israel) and throw it to the little dogs (the "dogs" being the Gentiles, and He used the diminuitive form of the word for dog (like cigarette, dogette)).

But what she said next shocked Him:

And she said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the little dogs eat the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.”Then Jesus answered and said to her, “O woman, great is your faith! Let it be to you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed from that very hour. - Matthew 15:27-28 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew15:27-28&version=NKJV

We see this happening a few times throughout the gospels, where a Gentile would come or be brought to Him, and He refused to help them, because He was focused on Israel and not the Gentiles. It was only because her faith in Him was so great that He did anything. But He had to walk a very fine line: Had He healed the woman's daughter too soon, we would have completely missed the point, that He was only sent to Israel, but refuse to heal the daughter and Christians (and people who stand against God) would say that He would have been cruel to her.

Anyways, the point is this: Jesus Himself said that He was sent only to Israel, and not the Gentiles.

Jesus was sent for those WHO WERE ALREADY SAVED AND BELONGED TO GOD.

When Jesus walked the earth, he came for those WHO WAITED FOR THE MESSIAH.

HE CAME for THOSE who did all those purification/ceremonial works AND HAD FAITH IN GOD.

It did not take faith to do the ceremonial works, and not all Jews had faith. God was going to make a NEW COVENANT that new covenant required faith. God cut off and would not let any Jews who did not ALREADY have faith be saved.

Do you understand that?

Jesus said when he is crucified then ALL could come to him to be saved.

Paul calls it Jews first then Gentiles.

Jesus did NOT come for ALL JEWS. Jesus came for the lost sheep of Israel, the Jews who already belonged to God by faith.

 

[God's Truth]

Correct. However, the plan was originally that Israel would be saved, and then go out to the world to teach the world about Jesus. God wanted a "spokesnation" to reach the nations of the world, to teach them about Christ's sacrifice for their sins.

Are you kidding? As if Jesus didn't KNOW THAT GOD CUT OFF AND HARDENED MANY JEWS!!!

Jesus only came for the lost sheep of Israel! Not all Israel were lost sheep!

However, when Israel utterly rejected their Messiah (Acts 7:51-60), at the very moment when the Jews killed Stephen, God said, "I've had enough of Israel rejecting Me, that's it, I'm going to cut off Israel, and I'm moving to Plan B."

ARE YOU CRAZY?

Jesus said this while he walked the earth! Way before Stephen was stoned!!!

Luke 19:42 and said, "If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace--but now it is hidden from your eyes.
Luke 8:10
He said, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables, so that, "'though seeing, they may not see; though hearing, they may not understand.'

John 12:40
"He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn--and I would heal them."

Romans 11:8
as it is written: "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that could not see and ears that could not hear, to this very day."
Matthew 13:14
In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: "'You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.

Mark 4:12 so that, "'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'"

Mark 8:17And Jesus, aware of this, said to them, "Why do you discuss the fact that you have no bread? Do you not yet see or understand? Do you have a hardened heart? 18"HAVING EYES, DO YOU NOT SEE? AND HAVING EARS, DO YOU NOT HEAR? And do you not remember,

 

[God's Truth]

The Word of God shows that Jesus taught law, not grace. Not once did Jesus mention grace.

I gave you scripture that PLAINLY says MOSES gave the LAW AND JESUS came with GRACE!

In fact, I challenge you to show me where, during His earthly ministry, Christ taught grace.

Jesus IS the good news, and what he taught was a way to get to the FATHER, to the kingdom of God.

Tell me, GT, does this sound like grace to you? or law?

“For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." - Matthew 6:14-15 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew6:14-15&version=NKJV

It sounds like LIFE GIVING WORDS.

Tell me GT, how does Jesus saying the above compare/contrast with this:

And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you. - Ephesians 4:32 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians4:32&version=NKJV

Does that sound like law or grace?

Paul taught that we are to continue to forgive as we were forgiven.

During the laying of the foundation, miraculous things happened that ARE NOT HAPPENING ANYMORE LIKE THEY ONCE DID. The apostles went to Gentiles who were without God in the world and they were given the message that saves. The apostles went to those who were not looking for Him.
That does not mean no one has to look for God anymore! There was a time during the laying of the foundation were the blind were given sight, the paralyzed from birth walked the dead were raised, people prophesied and spoke in tongues and it was an amazing time. People who did not search for God because they were raised knowing they were without God. They still had to repent of their sins like everyone else!

Acts 20:21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.

Did you read what Paul says?
Look at what he says and believe it.

2 Corinthians 12:21 I am afraid that when I come again my God will humble me before you, and I will be grieved over many who have sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual sin and debauchery in which they have indulged.

Paul is AFRAID that they did NOT REPENT!

Why is Paul AFRAID that they did not repent?

Read this scripture:

Paul is speaking to those who are standing before him, in case they who claim to have faith and who have not also REPENTED of their sins:

Romans 2:5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.

Saying you believe and have faith will do NOTHING FOR YOU if you did not repent.

Jesus:
Step 1) Forgive others
Step 2) God will forgive you

Paul
Step 1) God has forgiven you
Step 2) Forgive others

Now, I don't know about you, but being a logical person, those two verses seem to contradict one another. I want to hear how you resolve them before I tell you how they in fact do not contradict.

They do NOT contradict each other. After a person has a humble heart and is saved, they continue to keep that humble heart and need to forgive others or they will not be saved.


Luke 17:3 So watch yourselves. "If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him.

JESUS SAYS WATCH YOURSELVES. Why? Why does Jesus say to watch yourselves if your brother sins and REPENTS?

Paul taught the same thing!

Ephesians 4:32 Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.

Matthew 5-7 is Christ teaching law, and application of the law during the Millennial Kingdom.

Grace and truth came through Jesus, true. But that doesn't mean that Christ taught grace.

You are going against what is plainly written.

Explain, please. You have not refuted what I said.

You clearly do not understand Romans.

I encourage you to read through Romans a few times, QUICKLY, without trying to apply your beliefs to it.


By "we" do you mean humanity? Or Christians?

You're confusing Romans with Hebrews. Please don't. Romans was written to Gentiles. Hebrews was (SURPISE!) written to the Hebrews.

CHRISTIANS are no longer under the law, but under grace.

NON-CHRISTIANS are under the law, and will be condemned by it.

NO ONE IS UNDER THE OLD LAW ANYMORE.

IT IS OBSOLETE and FADED away.

Again, Hebrews was written to the Hebrews. It was not written to Christians. The law changed many times in the Bible (eg dietary laws).

Are you kidding? Jesus fulfilled those shadows and teaching tools!

No, it is the new law for the Hebrews. Christians are not under the law.

You put Christians under the law. You go against what the Bible says in Romans 6:14 and Galatians 5:18. We are dead to it.

I do not preach for anyone to get circumcised and observe special days.

 

[marhig]

Jesus said He was not sent to the Gentiles, He was sent ONLY TO ISRAEL.

If Jesus was only sent to the natural Jews, then why did he go and preach in Samaria to gentiles?

 

[God's Truth]

Doing something to receive a reward?

Hmmm that seems like law... Context? Oh, right:

James, a bondservant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad: Greetings. - James 1:1 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James1:1&version=NKJV

AKA the diaspora, Jews who have been scattered.

GT, it would help your position greatly if you actually knew who the authors of the Bible were writing to, so that you could form your theology based on the Bible, and not try to fit the Bible to your theology.

It would help you if you realized you are not a Gentile Corinthian or Gentile Ephesian, but a human being who needs to believe and obey Jesus.

I think you need to reread that paragraph understanding that James is talking to Jews.

If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well;but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors.For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment. - James 2:8-13 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James2:8-13&version=NKJV

James, a bondservant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad: Greetings. - James 1:1 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James1:1&version=NKJV

Again, To the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad.

I will not reply to this until you read through Romans a few times to get an overview of what is said, because you clearly do not understand what is said in the book.

You are so into yourself and the teachings of false teachers you cannot see past it.

You really need to work on reading context.

For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win the more;and to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law, that I might win those who are under the law; to those who are without law, as without law (not being without law toward God, but under law toward Christ ), that I might win those who are without law; to the weak I became as weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.Now this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I may be partaker of it with you. - 1 Corinthians 9:19-23 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Corinthians9:19-23&version=NKJV

For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win the more;and to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law, that I might win those who are under the law;to those who are without law, as without law (not being without law toward God, but under law toward Christ ), that I might win those who are without law;to the weak I became as weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.Now this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I may be partaker of it with you. - 1 Corinthians 9:19-23 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Corinthians9:19-23&version=NKJV

The "law of Christ" is to love God and love one another.

You just went against James for preaching it.

Tell me, if you do not murder your neighbor, have you not obeyed?

If you have not bore false witness against your neighbor, have you not obeyed?

If you have not stolen from your neighbor, have you not obeyed.

Love is causing your neighbor no harm.

How can you cause your neighbor no harm if you do not obey?

Tell me, if you do not murder, lie about, and steal from your neighbor, you have done well, but if you committed adultery against your neighbor's wife---then you have NOT LOVED YOUR NEIGHBOR, and all those other things you did right are WORTHLESS, because you harmed your neighbor and THAT IS NOT LOVE.

You have no understanding, it is is sad that you refuse the truth.