The Trinity

[SimpleMan77]

If God is more than one Person, He is a liar and a deceiver. Knowing the Jewish people militantly (and according to Trinitarians, errantly) believed that He was a single Person, He sent Isaiah to confuse them further by saying "I created the world by Myself" and "there's no one like me, with me, before me, after me" etc. He also sent Isaiah to say that the Son's name would be "The Everlasting Father".


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[God's Truth]

If God is more than one Person, He is a liar and a deceiver. Knowing the Jewish people militantly (and according to Trinitarians, errantly) believed that He was a single Person, He sent Isaiah to confuse them further by saying "I created the world by Myself" and "there's no one like me, with me, before me, after me" etc. He also sent Isaiah to say that the Son's name would be "The Everlasting Father".


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Sounds like you know the Truth.

 

[steko]

God is invisible. That is about being Spirit.

Yep, but it's also about being transcendent, infinite, immense....

That is about not having a physical body.

In His essence there is no physical body, correct.

However, a spirit can be seen sometimes.

'A' created spiritual being is sometimes manifestly seen but GOD in His essence as infinite Spirit cannot be seen.

We have scriptures where God the Father, in the Spirit, was seen.

Only in a representative symbolic vision, not literally.

Just to name one, Stephen saw Jesus at the right hand of the Father.

What did Stephen see of the Father? Did he see a body?

 

[God's Truth]

Yep, but it's also about being transcendent, infinite, immense....



In His essence there is no physical body, correct.




'A' created spiritual being is sometimes manifestly seen but GOD in His essence as infinite Spirit cannot be seen.



Only in a representative symbolic vision, not literally.




What did Stephen see of the Father? Did he see a body?

Acts 7:56 "Look," he said, "I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God."

Rev 5:7 And He came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

 

[Patrick Cronin]

The idea of putting the truth or falsehood of God's inner life to a VOTE is certain to fail. What it does show is that human interpretation of the words of Scripture are NOT the way that God intended His revelation (and salvation) to be spread throughout the world. It is nothing but the certainty of faith in the truths of the gospel that makes it possible for people to give their very lives rather than to deny them. People would not do that if their only authority for believing it is a majority vote of very fallible human beings!

 

[steko]

Acts 7:56 "Look," he said, "I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God."

Rev 5:7 And He came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Joh 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

Joh 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

1Jn_4:12 No man hath seen God at any time.

 

[God's Truth]

Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Joh 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

Matthew 3:17 And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."

Joh 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

1Jn_4:12 No man hath seen God at any time.

Don't try to debate by nullifying scripture with scripture.

Address the scriptures that I gave you.

Acts 7:56 "Look," he said, "I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God."

Rev 5:7 And He came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

 

[steko]

Matthew 3:17 And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."



Don't try to debate by nullifying scripture with scripture.

Address the scriptures that I gave you.

Acts 7:56 "Look," he said, "I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God."

Rev 5:7 And He came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

Acts 7:56- a Vision

Rev 5:7- a Vision

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Acts 7:56- a Vision

Rev 5:7- a Vision

16So he answered, "Do not fear, for those who are with us are more than those who are with them."

17Then Elisha prayed and said, "O LORD, I pray, open his eyes that he may see." And the LORD opened the servant's eyes and he saw; and behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha.

18When they came down to him, Elisha prayed to the LORD and said, "Strike this people with blindness, I pray." So He struck them with blindness according to the word of Elisha.…

 

[steko]

16So he answered, "Do not fear, for those who are with us are more than those who are with them."

17Then Elisha prayed and said, "O LORD, I pray, open his eyes that he may see." And the LORD opened the servant's eyes and he saw; and behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha.

18When they came down to him, Elisha prayed to the LORD and said, "Strike this people with blindness, I pray." So He struck them with blindness according to the word of Elisha.…

and [MENTION=14521]God's Truth[/MENTION]

If it is the case that Stephen did not see a vision but was actually seeing a geographical localized setting on a literal throne in heaven and that he was actually seeing the Father GOD, then what Stephen saw was finite. GOD is infinite being and became finite/limited in the Son Jesus Christ. The Father remains infinite and ubiquitous.

If Stephen actually saw something tangible that symbolized GOD the Father then it was His Glory, as it says, and that would be brilliant focalized light. I can accept that but still that would be a symbolic representation. GOD is infinite being.

Stephen actually says that he saw GOD's Glory and Jesus standing at His right hand. This is the only acceptable way, to me, that the sighting could be literal.

But to think that Stephen saw the man Christ and at the same time saw another one that looked like a man representing the Father is to move from Theism into Polytheism, which is unacceptable.

 

[God's Truth]

and [MENTION=14521]God's Truth[/MENTION]

If it is the case that Stephen did not see a vision but was actually seeing a geographical localized setting on a literal throne in heaven and that he was actually seeing the Father GOD, then what Stephen saw was finite. GOD is infinite being and became finite/limited in the Son Jesus Christ. The Father remains infinite and ubiquitous.

If Stephen actually saw something tangible that symbolized GOD the Father then it was His Glory, as it says, and that would be brilliant focalized light. I can accept that but still that would be a symbolic representation. GOD is infinite being.

Stephen actually says that he saw GOD's Glory and Jesus standing at His right hand. This is the only acceptable way, to me, that the sighting could be literal.

But to think that Stephen saw the man Christ and at the same time saw another one that looked like a man representing the Father is to move from Theism into Polytheism, which is unacceptable.

Consider more carefully... We all have a spirit. We are flesh and spirit. Our spirit looks EXACTLY like us, every hair and every freckle. Our spirit looks exactly like us but is see-through, no bones and no blood.

The Father is Spirit, and His Spirit is Jesus' Spirit. Jesus is the Spirit of God with a body.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Consider more carefully... We all have a spirit. We are flesh and spirit. Our spirit looks EXACTLY like us, every hair and and every freckle. Our spirit looks exactly like us but is see-through, no bones and no blood.

The Father is Spirit, and His Spirit is Jesus' Spirit. Jesus is the Spirit of God with a body.

Hair and freckles are physical. Spirit is not physical.

 

[God's Truth]

Hair and freckles are physical. Spirit is not physical.

Our spirits look exactly like us.

Don't you know what a ghost/spirit is?

 

[steko]

Consider more carefully... We all have a spirit. We are flesh and spirit. Our spirit looks EXACTLY like us, every hair and and every freckle. Our spirit looks exactly like us but is see-through, no bones and no blood.

The Father is Spirit, and His Spirit is Jesus' Spirit. Jesus is the Spirit of God with a body.

You either made that up or got it from someone who doesn't know what they're talking about.

 

[God's Truth]

You either made that up or got it from someone who doesn't know what they're talking about.

Are you saying you do not believe we have spirits?

Do you not believe that we have spirits that live on after the death of our bodies?

 

[JudgeRightly]

Our spirits look exactly like us.

Don't you know what a ghost/spirit is?

A spirit doesn't "look" like anything, for that would mean it is something physical that light can bounce off. So no, they don't look like a human body.

 

[God's Truth]

A spirit doesn't "look" like anything, for that would mean it is something physical that light can bounce off. So no, they don't look like a human body.

You are wrong. The Bible shows us what a ghost/spirit looks like, it looks like a person.

How is it that the apostles thought Jesus was a ghost more than once?

Answer that for it is scripture.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Are you saying you do not believe we have spirits?

Do you not believe that we have spirits that live on after the death of our bodies?

We don't "have" spirits, we ARE spirits. We are spiritual beings with a meat and flesh body and a soul through which we can relate with one another. Three in one. Body, soul, spirit. One person.

This reflects on God's nature, who made us in His image (tripartite) and likeness (His attributes: loving, good, personal, relational, and living)

 

[JudgeRightly]

You are wrong. The Bible shows us what a ghost/spirit looks like, it looks like a person.

How is it that the apostles thought Jesus was a ghost more than once?

Answer that for it is scripture.

The Holy Ghost came down like a dove when Jesus was baptised. Does this mean that the Holy Spirit is a dove?

Jesus' post-resurrection body was literally flesh made spirit, so of course it looked like his physical body.

 

[God's Truth]

We don't "have" spirits, we ARE spirits.

We are flesh and spirit.

We are spiritual beings with a meat and flesh body and a soul through which we can relate with one another. Three in one. Body, soul, spirit. One person.

Our spirit makes our body a soul.