The Trinity

The Trinity


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Apple7

New member
Let's say for the sake of the argument that you are correct and I am mistaken. :)ha:)

That would bring up the number of verses that can be used to claim God is plural in the Old Testament to 5 out of 23,145 in the KJV.

:think:


Even your googled references show numerous other scriptural examples of similar plural word forms for the singular God.

In your obvious googling frenzy, you glossed completely over these...



You still are supporting a minority report and have to ignore the majority of scripture.

Not at all.

The OT is packed full of thousands of plurals.

We used just one example to expose your ignorance...:cigar:
 

popsthebuilder

New member
So, I found some stuff that, in my opinion, promotes an unitary position and universal reconsiliation. Found it looking for something else actually.

Peace

Thus saith God the Lord , He that created the heavens, and stretched them forth, He that spread forth the earth and that which cometh out of it, He that giveth breath unto the people upon it, And spirit to them that walk therein:42:6*אֲנִ֧י*יְהוָ֛ה*קְרָאתִ֥יךָֽבְצֶ֖דֶק*וְאַחְזֵ֣ק*בְּיָדֶ֑ךָוְאֶצָּרְךָ֗*וְאֶתֶּנְךָ֛*לִבְרִ֥יתעָ֖ם*לְא֥וֹר*גּוֹיִֽם׃I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, And have taken hold of thy hand, And kept thee, and set thee for a covenant of the people, For a light of the nations;42:7*לִפְקֹ֖חַ*עֵינַ֣יִם*עִוְר֑וֹתלְהוֹצִ֤יא*מִמַּסְגֵּר֙*אַסִּ֔ירמִבֵּ֥ית*כֶּ֖לֶא*יֹ֥שְׁבֵי*חֹֽשֶׁךְ׃To open the blind eyes, To bring out the prisoners from the dungeon, And them that sit in darkness out of the prison-house.42:8*אֲנִ֥י*יְהוָ֖ה*ה֣וּא*שְׁמִ֑יוּכְבוֹדִי֙*לְאַחֵ֣ר*לֹֽא־אֶתֵּ֔ןוּתְהִלָּתִ֖י*לַפְּסִילִֽים׃I am the Lord , that is My name; And My glory will I not give to another, Neither My praise to graven images.42:9*הָרִֽאשֹׁנ֖וֹת*הִנֵּה־בָ֑אוּוַֽחֲדָשׁוֹת֙*אֲנִ֣י*מַגִּ֔ידבְּטֶ֥רֶם*תִּצְמַ֖חְנָהאַשְׁמִ֥יע*אֶתְכֶֽם׃Behold, the former things are come to pass, And new things do I declare; Before they spring forth I tell you of them.42:10*שִׁ֤ירוּ*לַֽיהוָה֙*שִׁ֣ירחָדָ֔שׁ*תְּהִלָּת֖וֹ*מִקְצֵ֣ההָאָ֑רֶץ*יוֹרְדֵ֤י*הַיָּם֙וּמְלֹא֔וֹ*אִיִּ֖ים*וְיֹשְׁבֵיהֶֽם׃Sing unto the Lord a new song, And His praise from the end of the earth; Ye that go down to the sea, and all that is therein, The isles, and the inhabitants thereof.42:11*יִשְׂא֤וּ*מִדְבָּר֙*וְעָרָ֔יוחֲצֵרִ֖ים*תֵּשֵׁ֣ב*קֵדָ֑ר*יָרֹ֙נּוּ֙יֹ֣שְׁבֵי*סֶ֔לַע*מֵרֹ֥אשׁהָרִ֖ים*יִצְוָֽחוּ׃Let the wilderness and the cities thereof lift up their voice, The villages that Kedar doth inhabit; Let the inhabitants of Sela exult, Let them shout from the top of the mountains.42:12*יָשִׂ֥ימוּ*לַֽיהוָ֖ה*כָּב֑וֹדוּתְהִלָּת֖וֹ*בָּאִיִּ֥ים*יַגִּֽידוּ׃Let them give glory unto the Lord , And declare His praise in the islands.42:13*יְהוָה֙*כַּגִּבּ֣וֹר*יֵצֵ֔אכְּאִ֥ישׁ*מִלְחָמ֖וֹת*יָעִ֣ירקִנְאָ֑ה*יָרִ֙יעַ֙*אַף־יַצְרִ֔יחַעַל־אֹיְבָ֖יו*יִתְגַּבָּֽר׃The Lord will go forth as a mighty man, He will stir up jealousy like a man of war; He will cry, yea, He will shout aloud, He will prove Himself mighty against His enemies.42:14*הֶחֱשֵׁ֙יתִי֙*מֵֽעוֹלָ֔םאַחֲרִ֖ישׁ*אֶתְאַפָּ֑קכַּיּוֹלֵדָ֣ה*אֶפְעֶ֔ה*אֶשֹּׁ֥םוְאֶשְׁאַ֖ף*יָֽחַד׃I have long time held My peace, I have been still, and refrained Myself; Now will I cry like a travailing woman, Gasping and panting at once.42:15*אַחֲרִ֤יב*הָרִים֙וּגְבָע֔וֹת*וְכָל־עֶשְׂבָּ֖םאוֹבִ֑ישׁ*וְשַׂמְתִּ֤י*נְהָרוֹת֙לָֽאִיִּ֔ים*וַאֲגַמִּ֖ים*אוֹבִֽישׁ׃I will make waste mountains and hills, And dry up all their herbs; And I will make the rivers islands, And will dry up the pools.42:16*וְהוֹלַכְתִּ֣י*עִוְרִ֗יםבְּדֶ֙רֶךְ֙*לֹ֣א*יָדָ֔עוּבִּנְתִיב֥וֹת*לֹֽא־יָדְע֖וּאַדְרִיכֵ֑ם*אָשִׂים֩*מַחְשָׁ֨ךְלִפְנֵיהֶ֜ם*לָא֗וֹרוּמַֽעֲקַשִּׁים֙*לְמִישׁ֔וֹראֵ֚לֶּה*הַדְּבָרִ֔ים*עֲשִׂיתִ֖םוְלֹ֥א*עֲזַבְתִּֽים׃And I will bring the blind by a way that they knew not, In paths that they knew not will I lead them; I will make darkness light before them, and rugged places plain. These things will I do, And I will not leave them undone.42:17*נָסֹ֤גוּ*אָחוֹר֙*יֵבֹ֣שׁוּבֹ֔שֶׁת*הַבֹּטְחִ֖ים*בַּפָּ֑סֶלהָאֹמְרִ֥ים*לְמַסֵּכָ֖האַתֶּ֥ם*אֱלֹהֵֽינוּ׃They shall be turned back, greatly ashamed, That trust in graven images, That say unto molten images: ‘Ye are our gods.’42:18*הַחֵרְשִׁ֖ים*שְׁמָ֑עוּוְהַעִוְרִ֖ים*הַבִּ֥יטוּלִרְאֽוֹת׃Hear, ye deaf, And look, ye blind, that ye may see.42:19*מִ֤י*עִוֵּר֙*כִּ֣יאִם־עַבְדִּ֔י*וְחֵרֵ֖שׁכְּמַלְאָכִ֣י*אֶשְׁלָ֑ח*מִ֤י*עִוֵּר֙כִּמְשֻׁלָּ֔ם*וְעִוֵּ֖ר*כְּעֶ֥בֶדיְהוָֽה׃Who is blind, but My servant? Or deaf, as My messenger that I send? Who is blind as he that is wholehearted, And blind as the Lord's servant?42:20*רָא֥וֹת*רַבּ֖וֹת*וְלֹ֣אתִשְׁמֹ֑ר*פָּק֥וֹחַ*אָזְנַ֖יִםוְלֹ֥א*יִשְׁמָֽע׃Seeing many things, thou observest not; Opening the ears, he heareth not.42:21*יְהוָ֥ה*חָפֵ֖ץ*לְמַ֣עַןצִדְק֑וֹ*יַגְדִּ֥יל*תּוֹרָ֖הוְיַאְדִּֽיר׃The Lord was pleased, for His righteousness’ sake, To make the teaching great and glorious.42:22*וְהוּא֮*עַם־בָּז֣וּזוְשָׁסוּי֒*הָפֵ֤חַ*בַּֽחוּרִים֙כֻּלָּ֔ם*וּבְבָתֵּ֥י*כְלָאִ֖יםהָחְבָּ֑אוּ*הָי֤וּ*לָבַז֙*וְאֵ֣יןמַצִּ֔יל*מְשִׁסָּ֖ה*וְאֵין־אֹמֵ֥רהָשַֽׁב׃But this is a people robbed and spoiled, They are all of them snared in holes, And they are hid in prison-houses; They are for a prey, and none delivereth, For a spoil, and none saith: ‘Restore.’42:23*מִ֥י*בָכֶ֖ם*יַאֲזִ֣ין*זֹ֑אתיַקְשִׁ֥ב*וְיִשְׁמַ֖ע*לְאָחֽוֹר׃Who among you will give ear to this? Who will hearken and hear for the time to come?42:24*מִֽי־נָתַ֨ן*לִמְשִׁסָּ֧היַעֲקֹ֛ב*וְיִשְׂרָאֵ֥ל*לְבֹזְזִ֖יםהֲל֣וֹא*יְהוָ֑ה*ז֚וּ*חָטָ֣אנוּל֔וֹ*וְלֹֽא־אָב֤וּ*בִדְרָכָיו֙הָל֔וֹךְ*וְלֹ֥א*שָׁמְע֖וּבְּתוֹרָתֽוֹ׃Who gave Jacob for a spoil, and Israel to the robbers? Did not the Lord ? He against whom we have sinned, And in whose ways they would not walk, Neither were they obedient unto His law.42:25*וַיִּשְׁפֹּ֤ךְ*עָלָיו֙*חֵמָ֣האַפּ֔וֹ*וֶעֱז֖וּז*מִלְחָמָ֑הוַתְּלַהֲטֵ֤הוּ*מִסָּבִיב֙*וְלֹ֣איָדָ֔ע*וַתִּבְעַר־בּ֖וֹוְלֹא־יָשִׂ֥ים*עַל־לֵֽב׃Therefore He poured upon him the fury of His anger, And the strength of battle; And it set him on fire round about, yet he knew not, And it burned him, yet he laid it not to heart.43:1*וְעַתָּ֞ה*כֹּֽה־אָמַ֤ריְהוָה֙*בֹּרַאֲךָ֣*יַעֲקֹ֔בוְיֹצֶרְךָ֖*יִשְׂרָאֵ֑לאַל־תִּירָא֙*כִּ֣י*גְאַלְתִּ֔יךָקָרָ֥אתִי*בְשִׁמְךָ֖לִי־אָֽתָּה׃But now thus saith the Lord that created thee, O Jacob, And He that formed thee, O Israel: Fear not, for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name, thou art Mine.43:2*כִּֽי־תַעֲבֹ֤ר*בַּמַּ֙יִם֙אִתְּךָ־אָ֔נִי*וּבַנְּהָר֖וֹת*לֹ֣איִשְׁטְפ֑וּךָ*כִּֽי־תֵלֵ֤ךְ*בְּמוֹ־אֵשׁ֙*לֹ֣א*תִכָּוֶ֔ה*וְלֶהָבָ֖הלֹ֥א*תִבְעַר־בָּֽךְ׃When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee, And through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee; When thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned, Neither shall the flame kindle upon thee.43:3*כִּ֗י*אֲנִי֙*יְהוָ֣ה*אֱלֹהֶ֔יךָקְד֥וֹשׁ*יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל*מוֹשִׁיעֶ֑ךָנָתַ֤תִּי*כָפְרְךָ֙*מִצְרַ֔יִםכּ֥וּשׁ*וּסְבָ֖א*תַּחְתֶּֽיךָ׃For I am the Lord thy God, The Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour; I have given Egypt as thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.43:4*מֵאֲשֶׁ֨ר*יָקַ֧רְתָּ*בְעֵינַ֛ינִכְבַּ֖דְתָּ*וַאֲנִ֣י*אֲהַבְתִּ֑יךָוְאֶתֵּ֤ן*אָדָם֙*תַּחְתֶּ֔יךָוּלְאֻמִּ֖ים*תַּ֥חַת*נַפְשֶֽׁךָ׃Since thou art precious in My sight, and honourable, And I have loved thee; Therefore will I give men for thee, And peoples for thy life.43:5*אַל־תִּירָ֖א*כִּ֣י*אִתְּךָ־אָ֑נִי*מִמִּזְרָח֙*אָבִ֣יאזַרְעֶ֔ךָ*וּמִֽמַּעֲרָ֖באֲקַבְּצֶֽךָּ׃Fear not, for I am with thee; I will bring thy seed from the east, And gather thee from the west;43:6*אֹמַ֤ר*לַצָּפוֹן֙*תֵּ֔נִיוּלְתֵימָ֖ן*אַל־תִּכְלָ֑אִיהָבִ֤יאִי*בָנַי֙*מֵרָח֔וֹקוּבְנוֹתַ֖י*מִקְצֵ֥ה*הָאָֽרֶץ׃I will say to the north: ‘Give up’, And to the south: ‘Keep not back, Bring My sons from far, And My daughters from the end of the earth;43:7*כֹּ֚ל*הַנִּקְרָ֣א*בִשְׁמִ֔יוְלִכְבוֹדִ֖י*בְּרָאתִ֑יויְצַרְתִּ֖יו*אַף־עֲשִׂיתִֽיו׃Every one that is called by My name, And whom I have created for My glory, I have formed him, yea, I have made him.’43:8*הוֹצִ֥יא*עַם־עִוֵּ֖רוְעֵינַ֣יִם*יֵ֑שׁ*וְחֵרְשִׁ֖יםוְאָזְנַ֥יִם*לָֽמוֹ׃The blind people that have eyes shall be brought forth, And the deaf that have ears.43:9*כָּֽל־הַגּוֹיִ֞ם*נִקְבְּצ֣וּיַחְדָּ֗ו*וְיֵאָֽסְפוּ֙*לְאֻמִּ֔יםמִ֤י*בָהֶם֙*יַגִּ֣יד*זֹ֔אתוְרִֽאשֹׁנ֖וֹת*יַשְׁמִיעֻ֑נוּ*יִתְּנ֤וּעֵֽדֵיהֶם֙*וְיִצְדָּ֔קוּ*וְיִשְׁמְע֖וּוְיֹאמְר֥וּ*אֱמֶֽת׃All the nations are gathered together, And the peoples are assembled; Who among them can declare this, And announce to us former things? Let them bring their witnesses, that they may be justified; And let them hear, and say: ‘It is truth.’43:10*אַתֶּ֤ם*עֵדַי֙נְאֻם־יְהוָ֔ה*וְעַבְדִּ֖י*אֲשֶׁ֣רבָּחָ֑רְתִּי*לְמַ֣עַן*תֵּ֠דְעוּוְתַאֲמִ֨ינוּ*לִ֤י*וְתָבִ֙ינוּ֙כִּֽי־אֲנִ֣י*ה֔וּא*לְפָנַי֙לֹא־נ֣וֹצַר*אֵ֔ל*וְאַחֲרַ֖י*לֹ֥איִהְיֶֽה׃Ye are My witnesses, saith the Lord , And My servant whom I have chosen; That ye may know and believe Me, and understand That I am He; Before Me there was no God formed, Neither shall any be after Me.


And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,6:2*וַיִּרְא֤וּ*בְנֵי־הָֽאֱלֹהִים֙אֶת־בְּנ֣וֹת*הָֽאָדָ֔ם*כִּ֥יטֹבֹ֖ת*הֵ֑נָּה*וַיִּקְח֤וּ*לָהֶם֙נָשִׁ֔ים*מִכֹּ֖ל*אֲשֶׁ֥רבָּחָֽרוּ׃that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives, whomsoever they chose.6:3*וַיֹּ֣אמֶר*יְהוָ֗ה*לֹֽא־יָד֨וֹןרוּחִ֤י*בָֽאָדָם֙*לְעֹלָ֔םבְּשַׁגַּ֖ם*ה֣וּא*בָשָׂ֑ר*וְהָי֣וּיָמָ֔יו*מֵאָ֥ה*וְעֶשְׂרִ֖יםשָׁנָֽה׃And the Lord said: ‘My spirit shall not abide in man for ever, for that he also is flesh; therefore shall his days be a hundred and twenty years.’6:4*הַנְּפִלִ֞ים*הָי֣וּ*בָאָרֶץ֮בַּיָּמִ֣ים*הָהֵם֒*וְגַ֣םאַֽחֲרֵי־כֵ֗ן*אֲשֶׁ֨ר*יָבֹ֜אוּבְּנֵ֤י*הָֽאֱלֹהִים֙*אֶל־בְּנ֣וֹתהָֽאָדָ֔ם*וְיָלְד֖וּ*לָהֶ֑םהֵ֧מָּה*הַגִּבֹּרִ֛ים*אֲשֶׁ֥רמֵעוֹלָ֖ם*אַנְשֵׁ֥י*הַשֵּֽׁם׃The Nephilim were in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bore children to them; the same were the mighty men that were of old, the men of renown.6:5*וַיַּ֣רְא*יְהוָ֔ה*כִּ֥י*רַבָּ֛הרָעַ֥ת*הָאָדָ֖ם*בָּאָ֑רֶץוְכָל־יֵ֙צֶר֙*מַחְשְׁבֹ֣ת*לִבּ֔וֹרַ֥ק*רַ֖ע*כָּל־הַיּֽוֹם׃And the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.6:6*וַיִּנָּ֣חֶם*יְהוָ֔ה*כִּֽי־עָשָׂ֥האֶת־הָֽאָדָ֖ם*בָּאָ֑רֶץוַיִּתְעַצֵּ֖ב*אֶל־לִבּֽוֹ׃And it repented the Lord that He had made man on the earth, and it grieved Him at His heart.6:7*וַיֹּ֣אמֶר*יְהוָ֗ה*אֶמְחֶ֨האֶת־הָאָדָ֤םאֲשֶׁר־בָּרָ֙אתִי֙*מֵעַל֙*פְּנֵ֣יהָֽאֲדָמָ֔ה*מֵֽאָדָם֙עַד־בְּהֵמָ֔ה*עַד־רֶ֖מֶשׂוְעַד־ע֣וֹף*הַשָּׁמָ֑יִם*כִּ֥ינִחַ֖מְתִּי*כִּ֥י*עֲשִׂיתִֽם׃And the Lord said: ‘I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and creeping thing, and fowl of the air; for it repenteth Me that I have made them.’
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
not funny jamie :confused:

It wasn't intended to be funny.

On the Last Day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.”

But this He spoke concerning the Spirit whom those believing in Him would receive, for the Holy Spirit was not yet given because Jesus was not yet glorified. (John 7:37-39 NKJV)​

Jesus told the woman at the well basically the same thing.

Water symbolizes the Holy Spirit.
 
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KingdomRose

New member
Bright Raven has told you who Jesus is. Jesus is God the Son, the second person of the Trinity (If God had a Son which he did, would he not possess some of the characteristics of his father). 1 John 1:1-2 states;

1 John 1:1-2 English Standard Version (ESV)

1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life—

2 the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us—

Jesus was proclaimed to have eternal life by the Apostle. Was He wrong?

Again He says;

John 1:1 English Standard Version (ESV)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

This verse states that the Word was God. It does not incorrectly insert the article, a, to insinuate a second god. It shows that the Word, Jesus, existed before He became man.

The following then shows that the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.

John 1:14 English Standard Version (ESV)

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Pretty simple to follow.

The last gives us the understanding of the Trinity.

1 John 5:7-8 English Standard Version (ESV)

7 For there are three that testify: 8 the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree.

Why would you deny that which is clear unless you wish to distort and mislead?

I don't think you bothered to read my post. This is what I think of your comments about the spurious, ridiculous, blasphemous, pagan and insulting Trinity: :dizzy::blabla::kookoo:
 

KingdomRose

New member
Joseph Smith, iirc, tried to pawn off his own version but the LDS at least had the sense not to try to replace the KJV. They just say it's unreliable and leave it at that. What the Watchtower did was a colossally stupid move.

What? Smith REWROTE the KJV! Then he used the antiquated King's English when he supposedly "translated" the Book of Mormon....as if God spoke in the English of 1611!

The WT didn't "replace" the KJV or any other version. The New World Translation was an addition to the versions available, and it was a version that followed all the rules of translation and also kept the name of God in the 7,000 places that it was supposed to appear in the O.T. It has been called by some scholars the most accurate of all the versions. (See Truth in Translation by Jason BeDuhn.)

:rolleyes:
 

Bright Raven

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
I don't think you bothered to read my post. This is what I think of your comments about the spurious, ridiculous, blasphemous, pagan and insulting Trinity: :dizzy::blabla::kookoo:

I do not believe that Jesus was a god. I believe that he is fully man and fully god according to the doctrine of the Hypostatic Union.
 

Bright Raven

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
So, I found some stuff that, in my opinion, promotes an unitary position and universal reconsiliation. Found it looking for something else actually.

Peace

Thus saith God the Lord , He that created the heavens, and stretched them forth, He that spread forth the earth and that which cometh out of it, He that giveth breath unto the people upon it, And spirit to them that walk therein:42:6*אֲנִ֧י*יְהוָ֛ה*קְרָאתִ֥יךָֽבְצֶ֖דֶק*וְאַחְזֵ֣ק*בְּיָדֶ֑ךָוְאֶצָּרְךָ֗*וְאֶתֶּנְךָ֛*לִבְרִ֥יתעָ֖ם*לְא֥וֹר*גּוֹיִֽם׃I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, And have taken hold of thy hand, And kept thee, and set thee for a covenant of the people, For a light of the nations;42:7*לִפְקֹ֖חַ*עֵינַ֣יִם*עִוְר֑וֹתלְהוֹצִ֤יא*מִמַּסְגֵּר֙*אַסִּ֔ירמִבֵּ֥ית*כֶּ֖לֶא*יֹ֥שְׁבֵי*חֹֽשֶׁךְ׃To open the blind eyes, To bring out the prisoners from the dungeon, And them that sit in darkness out of the prison-house.42:8*אֲנִ֥י*יְהוָ֖ה*ה֣וּא*שְׁמִ֑יוּכְבוֹדִי֙*לְאַחֵ֣ר*לֹֽא־אֶתֵּ֔ןוּתְהִלָּתִ֖י*לַפְּסִילִֽים׃I am the Lord , that is My name; And My glory will I not give to another, Neither My praise to graven images.42:9*הָרִֽאשֹׁנ֖וֹת*הִנֵּה־בָ֑אוּוַֽחֲדָשׁוֹת֙*אֲנִ֣י*מַגִּ֔ידבְּטֶ֥רֶם*תִּצְמַ֖חְנָהאַשְׁמִ֥יע*אֶתְכֶֽם׃Behold, the former things are come to pass, And new things do I declare; Before they spring forth I tell you of them.42:10*שִׁ֤ירוּ*לַֽיהוָה֙*שִׁ֣ירחָדָ֔שׁ*תְּהִלָּת֖וֹ*מִקְצֵ֣ההָאָ֑רֶץ*יוֹרְדֵ֤י*הַיָּם֙וּמְלֹא֔וֹ*אִיִּ֖ים*וְיֹשְׁבֵיהֶֽם׃Sing unto the Lord a new song, And His praise from the end of the earth; Ye that go down to the sea, and all that is therein, The isles, and the inhabitants thereof.42:11*יִשְׂא֤וּ*מִדְבָּר֙*וְעָרָ֔יוחֲצֵרִ֖ים*תֵּשֵׁ֣ב*קֵדָ֑ר*יָרֹ֙נּוּ֙יֹ֣שְׁבֵי*סֶ֔לַע*מֵרֹ֥אשׁהָרִ֖ים*יִצְוָֽחוּ׃Let the wilderness and the cities thereof lift up their voice, The villages that Kedar doth inhabit; Let the inhabitants of Sela exult, Let them shout from the top of the mountains.42:12*יָשִׂ֥ימוּ*לַֽיהוָ֖ה*כָּב֑וֹדוּתְהִלָּת֖וֹ*בָּאִיִּ֥ים*יַגִּֽידוּ׃Let them give glory unto the Lord , And declare His praise in the islands.42:13*יְהוָה֙*כַּגִּבּ֣וֹר*יֵצֵ֔אכְּאִ֥ישׁ*מִלְחָמ֖וֹת*יָעִ֣ירקִנְאָ֑ה*יָרִ֙יעַ֙*אַף־יַצְרִ֔יחַעַל־אֹיְבָ֖יו*יִתְגַּבָּֽר׃The Lord will go forth as a mighty man, He will stir up jealousy like a man of war; He will cry, yea, He will shout aloud, He will prove Himself mighty against His enemies.42:14*הֶחֱשֵׁ֙יתִי֙*מֵֽעוֹלָ֔םאַחֲרִ֖ישׁ*אֶתְאַפָּ֑קכַּיּוֹלֵדָ֣ה*אֶפְעֶ֔ה*אֶשֹּׁ֥םוְאֶשְׁאַ֖ף*יָֽחַד׃I have long time held My peace, I have been still, and refrained Myself; Now will I cry like a travailing woman, Gasping and panting at once.42:15*אַחֲרִ֤יב*הָרִים֙וּגְבָע֔וֹת*וְכָל־עֶשְׂבָּ֖םאוֹבִ֑ישׁ*וְשַׂמְתִּ֤י*נְהָרוֹת֙לָֽאִיִּ֔ים*וַאֲגַמִּ֖ים*אוֹבִֽישׁ׃I will make waste mountains and hills, And dry up all their herbs; And I will make the rivers islands, And will dry up the pools.42:16*וְהוֹלַכְתִּ֣י*עִוְרִ֗יםבְּדֶ֙רֶךְ֙*לֹ֣א*יָדָ֔עוּבִּנְתִיב֥וֹת*לֹֽא־יָדְע֖וּאַדְרִיכֵ֑ם*אָשִׂים֩*מַחְשָׁ֨ךְלִפְנֵיהֶ֜ם*לָא֗וֹרוּמַֽעֲקַשִּׁים֙*לְמִישׁ֔וֹראֵ֚לֶּה*הַדְּבָרִ֔ים*עֲשִׂיתִ֖םוְלֹ֥א*עֲזַבְתִּֽים׃And I will bring the blind by a way that they knew not, In paths that they knew not will I lead them; I will make darkness light before them, and rugged places plain. These things will I do, And I will not leave them undone.42:17*נָסֹ֤גוּ*אָחוֹר֙*יֵבֹ֣שׁוּבֹ֔שֶׁת*הַבֹּטְחִ֖ים*בַּפָּ֑סֶלהָאֹמְרִ֥ים*לְמַסֵּכָ֖האַתֶּ֥ם*אֱלֹהֵֽינוּ׃They shall be turned back, greatly ashamed, That trust in graven images, That say unto molten images: ‘Ye are our gods.’42:18*הַחֵרְשִׁ֖ים*שְׁמָ֑עוּוְהַעִוְרִ֖ים*הַבִּ֥יטוּלִרְאֽוֹת׃Hear, ye deaf, And look, ye blind, that ye may see.42:19*מִ֤י*עִוֵּר֙*כִּ֣יאִם־עַבְדִּ֔י*וְחֵרֵ֖שׁכְּמַלְאָכִ֣י*אֶשְׁלָ֑ח*מִ֤י*עִוֵּר֙כִּמְשֻׁלָּ֔ם*וְעִוֵּ֖ר*כְּעֶ֥בֶדיְהוָֽה׃Who is blind, but My servant? Or deaf, as My messenger that I send? Who is blind as he that is wholehearted, And blind as the Lord's servant?42:20*רָא֥וֹת*רַבּ֖וֹת*וְלֹ֣אתִשְׁמֹ֑ר*פָּק֥וֹחַ*אָזְנַ֖יִםוְלֹ֥א*יִשְׁמָֽע׃Seeing many things, thou observest not; Opening the ears, he heareth not.42:21*יְהוָ֥ה*חָפֵ֖ץ*לְמַ֣עַןצִדְק֑וֹ*יַגְדִּ֥יל*תּוֹרָ֖הוְיַאְדִּֽיר׃The Lord was pleased, for His righteousness’ sake, To make the teaching great and glorious.42:22*וְהוּא֮*עַם־בָּז֣וּזוְשָׁסוּי֒*הָפֵ֤חַ*בַּֽחוּרִים֙כֻּלָּ֔ם*וּבְבָתֵּ֥י*כְלָאִ֖יםהָחְבָּ֑אוּ*הָי֤וּ*לָבַז֙*וְאֵ֣יןמַצִּ֔יל*מְשִׁסָּ֖ה*וְאֵין־אֹמֵ֥רהָשַֽׁב׃But this is a people robbed and spoiled, They are all of them snared in holes, And they are hid in prison-houses; They are for a prey, and none delivereth, For a spoil, and none saith: ‘Restore.’42:23*מִ֥י*בָכֶ֖ם*יַאֲזִ֣ין*זֹ֑אתיַקְשִׁ֥ב*וְיִשְׁמַ֖ע*לְאָחֽוֹר׃Who among you will give ear to this? Who will hearken and hear for the time to come?42:24*מִֽי־נָתַ֨ן*לִמְשִׁסָּ֧היַעֲקֹ֛ב*וְיִשְׂרָאֵ֥ל*לְבֹזְזִ֖יםהֲל֣וֹא*יְהוָ֑ה*ז֚וּ*חָטָ֣אנוּל֔וֹ*וְלֹֽא־אָב֤וּ*בִדְרָכָיו֙הָל֔וֹךְ*וְלֹ֥א*שָׁמְע֖וּבְּתוֹרָתֽוֹ׃Who gave Jacob for a spoil, and Israel to the robbers? Did not the Lord ? He against whom we have sinned, And in whose ways they would not walk, Neither were they obedient unto His law.42:25*וַיִּשְׁפֹּ֤ךְ*עָלָיו֙*חֵמָ֣האַפּ֔וֹ*וֶעֱז֖וּז*מִלְחָמָ֑הוַתְּלַהֲטֵ֤הוּ*מִסָּבִיב֙*וְלֹ֣איָדָ֔ע*וַתִּבְעַר־בּ֖וֹוְלֹא־יָשִׂ֥ים*עַל־לֵֽב׃Therefore He poured upon him the fury of His anger, And the strength of battle; And it set him on fire round about, yet he knew not, And it burned him, yet he laid it not to heart.43:1*וְעַתָּ֞ה*כֹּֽה־אָמַ֤ריְהוָה֙*בֹּרַאֲךָ֣*יַעֲקֹ֔בוְיֹצֶרְךָ֖*יִשְׂרָאֵ֑לאַל־תִּירָא֙*כִּ֣י*גְאַלְתִּ֔יךָקָרָ֥אתִי*בְשִׁמְךָ֖לִי־אָֽתָּה׃But now thus saith the Lord that created thee, O Jacob, And He that formed thee, O Israel: Fear not, for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name, thou art Mine.43:2*כִּֽי־תַעֲבֹ֤ר*בַּמַּ֙יִם֙אִתְּךָ־אָ֔נִי*וּבַנְּהָר֖וֹת*לֹ֣איִשְׁטְפ֑וּךָ*כִּֽי־תֵלֵ֤ךְ*בְּמוֹ־אֵשׁ֙*לֹ֣א*תִכָּוֶ֔ה*וְלֶהָבָ֖הלֹ֥א*תִבְעַר־בָּֽךְ׃When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee, And through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee; When thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned, Neither shall the flame kindle upon thee.43:3*כִּ֗י*אֲנִי֙*יְהוָ֣ה*אֱלֹהֶ֔יךָקְד֥וֹשׁ*יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל*מוֹשִׁיעֶ֑ךָנָתַ֤תִּי*כָפְרְךָ֙*מִצְרַ֔יִםכּ֥וּשׁ*וּסְבָ֖א*תַּחְתֶּֽיךָ׃For I am the Lord thy God, The Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour; I have given Egypt as thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.43:4*מֵאֲשֶׁ֨ר*יָקַ֧רְתָּ*בְעֵינַ֛ינִכְבַּ֖דְתָּ*וַאֲנִ֣י*אֲהַבְתִּ֑יךָוְאֶתֵּ֤ן*אָדָם֙*תַּחְתֶּ֔יךָוּלְאֻמִּ֖ים*תַּ֥חַת*נַפְשֶֽׁךָ׃Since thou art precious in My sight, and honourable, And I have loved thee; Therefore will I give men for thee, And peoples for thy life.43:5*אַל־תִּירָ֖א*כִּ֣י*אִתְּךָ־אָ֑נִי*מִמִּזְרָח֙*אָבִ֣יאזַרְעֶ֔ךָ*וּמִֽמַּעֲרָ֖באֲקַבְּצֶֽךָּ׃Fear not, for I am with thee; I will bring thy seed from the east, And gather thee from the west;43:6*אֹמַ֤ר*לַצָּפוֹן֙*תֵּ֔נִיוּלְתֵימָ֖ן*אַל־תִּכְלָ֑אִיהָבִ֤יאִי*בָנַי֙*מֵרָח֔וֹקוּבְנוֹתַ֖י*מִקְצֵ֥ה*הָאָֽרֶץ׃I will say to the north: ‘Give up’, And to the south: ‘Keep not back, Bring My sons from far, And My daughters from the end of the earth;43:7*כֹּ֚ל*הַנִּקְרָ֣א*בִשְׁמִ֔יוְלִכְבוֹדִ֖י*בְּרָאתִ֑יויְצַרְתִּ֖יו*אַף־עֲשִׂיתִֽיו׃Every one that is called by My name, And whom I have created for My glory, I have formed him, yea, I have made him.’43:8*הוֹצִ֥יא*עַם־עִוֵּ֖רוְעֵינַ֣יִם*יֵ֑שׁ*וְחֵרְשִׁ֖יםוְאָזְנַ֥יִם*לָֽמוֹ׃The blind people that have eyes shall be brought forth, And the deaf that have ears.43:9*כָּֽל־הַגּוֹיִ֞ם*נִקְבְּצ֣וּיַחְדָּ֗ו*וְיֵאָֽסְפוּ֙*לְאֻמִּ֔יםמִ֤י*בָהֶם֙*יַגִּ֣יד*זֹ֔אתוְרִֽאשֹׁנ֖וֹת*יַשְׁמִיעֻ֑נוּ*יִתְּנ֤וּעֵֽדֵיהֶם֙*וְיִצְדָּ֔קוּ*וְיִשְׁמְע֖וּוְיֹאמְר֥וּ*אֱמֶֽת׃All the nations are gathered together, And the peoples are assembled; Who among them can declare this, And announce to us former things? Let them bring their witnesses, that they may be justified; And let them hear, and say: ‘It is truth.’43:10*אַתֶּ֤ם*עֵדַי֙נְאֻם־יְהוָ֔ה*וְעַבְדִּ֖י*אֲשֶׁ֣רבָּחָ֑רְתִּי*לְמַ֣עַן*תֵּ֠דְעוּוְתַאֲמִ֨ינוּ*לִ֤י*וְתָבִ֙ינוּ֙כִּֽי־אֲנִ֣י*ה֔וּא*לְפָנַי֙לֹא־נ֣וֹצַר*אֵ֔ל*וְאַחֲרַ֖י*לֹ֥איִהְיֶֽה׃Ye are My witnesses, saith the Lord , And My servant whom I have chosen; That ye may know and believe Me, and understand That I am He; Before Me there was no God formed, Neither shall any be after Me.


And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,6:2*וַיִּרְא֤וּ*בְנֵי־הָֽאֱלֹהִים֙אֶת־בְּנ֣וֹת*הָֽאָדָ֔ם*כִּ֥יטֹבֹ֖ת*הֵ֑נָּה*וַיִּקְח֤וּ*לָהֶם֙נָשִׁ֔ים*מִכֹּ֖ל*אֲשֶׁ֥רבָּחָֽרוּ׃that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives, whomsoever they chose.6:3*וַיֹּ֣אמֶר*יְהוָ֗ה*לֹֽא־יָד֨וֹןרוּחִ֤י*בָֽאָדָם֙*לְעֹלָ֔םבְּשַׁגַּ֖ם*ה֣וּא*בָשָׂ֑ר*וְהָי֣וּיָמָ֔יו*מֵאָ֥ה*וְעֶשְׂרִ֖יםשָׁנָֽה׃And the Lord said: ‘My spirit shall not abide in man for ever, for that he also is flesh; therefore shall his days be a hundred and twenty years.’6:4*הַנְּפִלִ֞ים*הָי֣וּ*בָאָרֶץ֮בַּיָּמִ֣ים*הָהֵם֒*וְגַ֣םאַֽחֲרֵי־כֵ֗ן*אֲשֶׁ֨ר*יָבֹ֜אוּבְּנֵ֤י*הָֽאֱלֹהִים֙*אֶל־בְּנ֣וֹתהָֽאָדָ֔ם*וְיָלְד֖וּ*לָהֶ֑םהֵ֧מָּה*הַגִּבֹּרִ֛ים*אֲשֶׁ֥רמֵעוֹלָ֖ם*אַנְשֵׁ֥י*הַשֵּֽׁם׃The Nephilim were in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bore children to them; the same were the mighty men that were of old, the men of renown.6:5*וַיַּ֣רְא*יְהוָ֔ה*כִּ֥י*רַבָּ֛הרָעַ֥ת*הָאָדָ֖ם*בָּאָ֑רֶץוְכָל־יֵ֙צֶר֙*מַחְשְׁבֹ֣ת*לִבּ֔וֹרַ֥ק*רַ֖ע*כָּל־הַיּֽוֹם׃And the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.6:6*וַיִּנָּ֣חֶם*יְהוָ֔ה*כִּֽי־עָשָׂ֥האֶת־הָֽאָדָ֖ם*בָּאָ֑רֶץוַיִּתְעַצֵּ֖ב*אֶל־לִבּֽוֹ׃And it repented the Lord that He had made man on the earth, and it grieved Him at His heart.6:7*וַיֹּ֣אמֶר*יְהוָ֗ה*אֶמְחֶ֨האֶת־הָאָדָ֤םאֲשֶׁר־בָּרָ֙אתִי֙*מֵעַל֙*פְּנֵ֣יהָֽאֲדָמָ֔ה*מֵֽאָדָם֙עַד־בְּהֵמָ֔ה*עַד־רֶ֖מֶשׂוְעַד־ע֣וֹף*הַשָּׁמָ֑יִם*כִּ֥ינִחַ֖מְתִּי*כִּ֥י*עֲשִׂיתִֽם׃And the Lord said: ‘I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and creeping thing, and fowl of the air; for it repenteth Me that I have made them.’
Might help to give a book instead of just verses.
 

genuineoriginal

New member
I don't get what you're saying. My argument doesn't "fall flat."

:blabla:

Sure it does.

I said that if "kind reproduces after its kind," and that proves that Jesus is God because God produced him,
Almost right.
God begat Jesus, not produced Him.
Since Jesus was begotten of God, that makes Jesus of the same "kind" as God, if that is your argument.

then what of the other angels and mankind? God made the angels and humans.....does that mean that they are all "God" also?
This is where your argument falls flat, since none of the angels or humans were begotten of God the way Jesus was.
God created many kinds, none of which are "God" also because none of them are the same "kind" as God, if that is your argument.
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
The Spirit is not just a force. He has the traits of pesonality and is therefore a person.

A person? So why would Jesus compare the Holy Spirit to a river? How does a person flow out of the heart of another person?

Why would Jesus compare a person to a water fountain?

And He said to me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts." (Revelation 21:6 NKJV)
Why don't you believe Jesus instead of men?
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
So, I found some stuff that, in my opinion, promotes an unitary position and universal reconsiliation. Found it looking for something else actually.

Peace

Thus saith God the Lord , He that created the heavens, and stretched them forth, He that spread forth the earth and that which cometh out of it, He that giveth breath unto the people upon it, And spirit to them that walk therein:42:6*אֲנִ֧י*יְהוָ֛ה*קְרָאתִ֥יךָֽבְצֶ֖דֶק*וְאַחְזֵ֣ק*בְּיָדֶ֑ךָוְאֶצָּרְךָ֗*וְאֶתֶּנְךָ֛*לִבְרִ֥יתעָ֖ם*לְא֥וֹר*גּוֹיִֽם׃I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, And have taken hold of thy hand, And kept thee, and set thee for a covenant of the people, For a light of the nations;42:7*לִפְקֹ֖חַ*עֵינַ֣יִם*עִוְר֑וֹתלְהוֹצִ֤יא*מִמַּסְגֵּר֙*אַסִּ֔ירמִבֵּ֥ית*כֶּ֖לֶא*יֹ֥שְׁבֵי*חֹֽשֶׁךְ׃To open the blind eyes, To bring out the prisoners from the dungeon, And them that sit in darkness out of the prison-house.42:8*אֲנִ֥י*יְהוָ֖ה*ה֣וּא*שְׁמִ֑יוּכְבוֹדִי֙*לְאַחֵ֣ר*לֹֽא־אֶתֵּ֔ןוּתְהִלָּתִ֖י*לַפְּסִילִֽים׃I am the Lord , that is My name; And My glory will I not give to another, Neither My praise to graven images.42:9*הָרִֽאשֹׁנ֖וֹת*הִנֵּה־בָ֑אוּוַֽחֲדָשׁוֹת֙*אֲנִ֣י*מַגִּ֔ידבְּטֶ֥רֶם*תִּצְמַ֖חְנָהאַשְׁמִ֥יע*אֶתְכֶֽם׃Behold, the former things are come to pass, And new things do I declare; Before they spring forth I tell you of them.42:10*שִׁ֤ירוּ*לַֽיהוָה֙*שִׁ֣ירחָדָ֔שׁ*תְּהִלָּת֖וֹ*מִקְצֵ֣ההָאָ֑רֶץ*יוֹרְדֵ֤י*הַיָּם֙וּמְלֹא֔וֹ*אִיִּ֖ים*וְיֹשְׁבֵיהֶֽם׃Sing unto the Lord a new song, And His praise from the end of the earth; Ye that go down to the sea, and all that is therein, The isles, and the inhabitants thereof.42:11*יִשְׂא֤וּ*מִדְבָּר֙*וְעָרָ֔יוחֲצֵרִ֖ים*תֵּשֵׁ֣ב*קֵדָ֑ר*יָרֹ֙נּוּ֙יֹ֣שְׁבֵי*סֶ֔לַע*מֵרֹ֥אשׁהָרִ֖ים*יִצְוָֽחוּ׃Let the wilderness and the cities thereof lift up their voice, The villages that Kedar doth inhabit; Let the inhabitants of Sela exult, Let them shout from the top of the mountains.42:12*יָשִׂ֥ימוּ*לַֽיהוָ֖ה*כָּב֑וֹדוּתְהִלָּת֖וֹ*בָּאִיִּ֥ים*יַגִּֽידוּ׃Let them give glory unto the Lord , And declare His praise in the islands.42:13*יְהוָה֙*כַּגִּבּ֣וֹר*יֵצֵ֔אכְּאִ֥ישׁ*מִלְחָמ֖וֹת*יָעִ֣ירקִנְאָ֑ה*יָרִ֙יעַ֙*אַף־יַצְרִ֔יחַעַל־אֹיְבָ֖יו*יִתְגַּבָּֽר׃The Lord will go forth as a mighty man, He will stir up jealousy like a man of war; He will cry, yea, He will shout aloud, He will prove Himself mighty against His enemies.42:14*הֶחֱשֵׁ֙יתִי֙*מֵֽעוֹלָ֔םאַחֲרִ֖ישׁ*אֶתְאַפָּ֑קכַּיּוֹלֵדָ֣ה*אֶפְעֶ֔ה*אֶשֹּׁ֥םוְאֶשְׁאַ֖ף*יָֽחַד׃I have long time held My peace, I have been still, and refrained Myself; Now will I cry like a travailing woman, Gasping and panting at once.42:15*אַחֲרִ֤יב*הָרִים֙וּגְבָע֔וֹת*וְכָל־עֶשְׂבָּ֖םאוֹבִ֑ישׁ*וְשַׂמְתִּ֤י*נְהָרוֹת֙לָֽאִיִּ֔ים*וַאֲגַמִּ֖ים*אוֹבִֽישׁ׃I will make waste mountains and hills, And dry up all their herbs; And I will make the rivers islands, And will dry up the pools.42:16*וְהוֹלַכְתִּ֣י*עִוְרִ֗יםבְּדֶ֙רֶךְ֙*לֹ֣א*יָדָ֔עוּבִּנְתִיב֥וֹת*לֹֽא־יָדְע֖וּאַדְרִיכֵ֑ם*אָשִׂים֩*מַחְשָׁ֨ךְלִפְנֵיהֶ֜ם*לָא֗וֹרוּמַֽעֲקַשִּׁים֙*לְמִישׁ֔וֹראֵ֚לֶּה*הַדְּבָרִ֔ים*עֲשִׂיתִ֖םוְלֹ֥א*עֲזַבְתִּֽים׃And I will bring the blind by a way that they knew not, In paths that they knew not will I lead them; I will make darkness light before them, and rugged places plain. These things will I do, And I will not leave them undone.42:17*נָסֹ֤גוּ*אָחוֹר֙*יֵבֹ֣שׁוּבֹ֔שֶׁת*הַבֹּטְחִ֖ים*בַּפָּ֑סֶלהָאֹמְרִ֥ים*לְמַסֵּכָ֖האַתֶּ֥ם*אֱלֹהֵֽינוּ׃They shall be turned back, greatly ashamed, That trust in graven images, That say unto molten images: ‘Ye are our gods.’42:18*הַחֵרְשִׁ֖ים*שְׁמָ֑עוּוְהַעִוְרִ֖ים*הַבִּ֥יטוּלִרְאֽוֹת׃Hear, ye deaf, And look, ye blind, that ye may see.42:19*מִ֤י*עִוֵּר֙*כִּ֣יאִם־עַבְדִּ֔י*וְחֵרֵ֖שׁכְּמַלְאָכִ֣י*אֶשְׁלָ֑ח*מִ֤י*עִוֵּר֙כִּמְשֻׁלָּ֔ם*וְעִוֵּ֖ר*כְּעֶ֥בֶדיְהוָֽה׃Who is blind, but My servant? Or deaf, as My messenger that I send? Who is blind as he that is wholehearted, And blind as the Lord's servant?42:20*רָא֥וֹת*רַבּ֖וֹת*וְלֹ֣אתִשְׁמֹ֑ר*פָּק֥וֹחַ*אָזְנַ֖יִםוְלֹ֥א*יִשְׁמָֽע׃Seeing many things, thou observest not; Opening the ears, he heareth not.42:21*יְהוָ֥ה*חָפֵ֖ץ*לְמַ֣עַןצִדְק֑וֹ*יַגְדִּ֥יל*תּוֹרָ֖הוְיַאְדִּֽיר׃The Lord was pleased, for His righteousness’ sake, To make the teaching great and glorious.42:22*וְהוּא֮*עַם־בָּז֣וּזוְשָׁסוּי֒*הָפֵ֤חַ*בַּֽחוּרִים֙כֻּלָּ֔ם*וּבְבָתֵּ֥י*כְלָאִ֖יםהָחְבָּ֑אוּ*הָי֤וּ*לָבַז֙*וְאֵ֣יןמַצִּ֔יל*מְשִׁסָּ֖ה*וְאֵין־אֹמֵ֥רהָשַֽׁב׃But this is a people robbed and spoiled, They are all of them snared in holes, And they are hid in prison-houses; They are for a prey, and none delivereth, For a spoil, and none saith: ‘Restore.’42:23*מִ֥י*בָכֶ֖ם*יַאֲזִ֣ין*זֹ֑אתיַקְשִׁ֥ב*וְיִשְׁמַ֖ע*לְאָחֽוֹר׃Who among you will give ear to this? Who will hearken and hear for the time to come?42:24*מִֽי־נָתַ֨ן*לִמְשִׁסָּ֧היַעֲקֹ֛ב*וְיִשְׂרָאֵ֥ל*לְבֹזְזִ֖יםהֲל֣וֹא*יְהוָ֑ה*ז֚וּ*חָטָ֣אנוּל֔וֹ*וְלֹֽא־אָב֤וּ*בִדְרָכָיו֙הָל֔וֹךְ*וְלֹ֥א*שָׁמְע֖וּבְּתוֹרָתֽוֹ׃Who gave Jacob for a spoil, and Israel to the robbers? Did not the Lord ? He against whom we have sinned, And in whose ways they would not walk, Neither were they obedient unto His law.42:25*וַיִּשְׁפֹּ֤ךְ*עָלָיו֙*חֵמָ֣האַפּ֔וֹ*וֶעֱז֖וּז*מִלְחָמָ֑הוַתְּלַהֲטֵ֤הוּ*מִסָּבִיב֙*וְלֹ֣איָדָ֔ע*וַתִּבְעַר־בּ֖וֹוְלֹא־יָשִׂ֥ים*עַל־לֵֽב׃Therefore He poured upon him the fury of His anger, And the strength of battle; And it set him on fire round about, yet he knew not, And it burned him, yet he laid it not to heart.43:1*וְעַתָּ֞ה*כֹּֽה־אָמַ֤ריְהוָה֙*בֹּרַאֲךָ֣*יַעֲקֹ֔בוְיֹצֶרְךָ֖*יִשְׂרָאֵ֑לאַל־תִּירָא֙*כִּ֣י*גְאַלְתִּ֔יךָקָרָ֥אתִי*בְשִׁמְךָ֖לִי־אָֽתָּה׃But now thus saith the Lord that created thee, O Jacob, And He that formed thee, O Israel: Fear not, for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name, thou art Mine.43:2*כִּֽי־תַעֲבֹ֤ר*בַּמַּ֙יִם֙אִתְּךָ־אָ֔נִי*וּבַנְּהָר֖וֹת*לֹ֣איִשְׁטְפ֑וּךָ*כִּֽי־תֵלֵ֤ךְ*בְּמוֹ־אֵשׁ֙*לֹ֣א*תִכָּוֶ֔ה*וְלֶהָבָ֖הלֹ֥א*תִבְעַר־בָּֽךְ׃When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee, And through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee; When thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned, Neither shall the flame kindle upon thee.43:3*כִּ֗י*אֲנִי֙*יְהוָ֣ה*אֱלֹהֶ֔יךָקְד֥וֹשׁ*יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל*מוֹשִׁיעֶ֑ךָנָתַ֤תִּי*כָפְרְךָ֙*מִצְרַ֔יִםכּ֥וּשׁ*וּסְבָ֖א*תַּחְתֶּֽיךָ׃For I am the Lord thy God, The Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour; I have given Egypt as thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.43:4*מֵאֲשֶׁ֨ר*יָקַ֧רְתָּ*בְעֵינַ֛ינִכְבַּ֖דְתָּ*וַאֲנִ֣י*אֲהַבְתִּ֑יךָוְאֶתֵּ֤ן*אָדָם֙*תַּחְתֶּ֔יךָוּלְאֻמִּ֖ים*תַּ֥חַת*נַפְשֶֽׁךָ׃Since thou art precious in My sight, and honourable, And I have loved thee; Therefore will I give men for thee, And peoples for thy life.43:5*אַל־תִּירָ֖א*כִּ֣י*אִתְּךָ־אָ֑נִי*מִמִּזְרָח֙*אָבִ֣יאזַרְעֶ֔ךָ*וּמִֽמַּעֲרָ֖באֲקַבְּצֶֽךָּ׃Fear not, for I am with thee; I will bring thy seed from the east, And gather thee from the west;43:6*אֹמַ֤ר*לַצָּפוֹן֙*תֵּ֔נִיוּלְתֵימָ֖ן*אַל־תִּכְלָ֑אִיהָבִ֤יאִי*בָנַי֙*מֵרָח֔וֹקוּבְנוֹתַ֖י*מִקְצֵ֥ה*הָאָֽרֶץ׃I will say to the north: ‘Give up’, And to the south: ‘Keep not back, Bring My sons from far, And My daughters from the end of the earth;43:7*כֹּ֚ל*הַנִּקְרָ֣א*בִשְׁמִ֔יוְלִכְבוֹדִ֖י*בְּרָאתִ֑יויְצַרְתִּ֖יו*אַף־עֲשִׂיתִֽיו׃Every one that is called by My name, And whom I have created for My glory, I have formed him, yea, I have made him.’43:8*הוֹצִ֥יא*עַם־עִוֵּ֖רוְעֵינַ֣יִם*יֵ֑שׁ*וְחֵרְשִׁ֖יםוְאָזְנַ֥יִם*לָֽמוֹ׃The blind people that have eyes shall be brought forth, And the deaf that have ears.43:9*כָּֽל־הַגּוֹיִ֞ם*נִקְבְּצ֣וּיַחְדָּ֗ו*וְיֵאָֽסְפוּ֙*לְאֻמִּ֔יםמִ֤י*בָהֶם֙*יַגִּ֣יד*זֹ֔אתוְרִֽאשֹׁנ֖וֹת*יַשְׁמִיעֻ֑נוּ*יִתְּנ֤וּעֵֽדֵיהֶם֙*וְיִצְדָּ֔קוּ*וְיִשְׁמְע֖וּוְיֹאמְר֥וּ*אֱמֶֽת׃All the nations are gathered together, And the peoples are assembled; Who among them can declare this, And announce to us former things? Let them bring their witnesses, that they may be justified; And let them hear, and say: ‘It is truth.’43:10*אַתֶּ֤ם*עֵדַי֙נְאֻם־יְהוָ֔ה*וְעַבְדִּ֖י*אֲשֶׁ֣רבָּחָ֑רְתִּי*לְמַ֣עַן*תֵּ֠דְעוּוְתַאֲמִ֨ינוּ*לִ֤י*וְתָבִ֙ינוּ֙כִּֽי־אֲנִ֣י*ה֔וּא*לְפָנַי֙לֹא־נ֣וֹצַר*אֵ֔ל*וְאַחֲרַ֖י*לֹ֥איִהְיֶֽה׃Ye are My witnesses, saith the Lord , And My servant whom I have chosen; That ye may know and believe Me, and understand That I am He; Before Me there was no God formed, Neither shall any be after Me.


And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,6:2*וַיִּרְא֤וּ*בְנֵי־הָֽאֱלֹהִים֙אֶת־בְּנ֣וֹת*הָֽאָדָ֔ם*כִּ֥יטֹבֹ֖ת*הֵ֑נָּה*וַיִּקְח֤וּ*לָהֶם֙נָשִׁ֔ים*מִכֹּ֖ל*אֲשֶׁ֥רבָּחָֽרוּ׃that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives, whomsoever they chose.6:3*וַיֹּ֣אמֶר*יְהוָ֗ה*לֹֽא־יָד֨וֹןרוּחִ֤י*בָֽאָדָם֙*לְעֹלָ֔םבְּשַׁגַּ֖ם*ה֣וּא*בָשָׂ֑ר*וְהָי֣וּיָמָ֔יו*מֵאָ֥ה*וְעֶשְׂרִ֖יםשָׁנָֽה׃And the Lord said: ‘My spirit shall not abide in man for ever, for that he also is flesh; therefore shall his days be a hundred and twenty years.’6:4*הַנְּפִלִ֞ים*הָי֣וּ*בָאָרֶץ֮בַּיָּמִ֣ים*הָהֵם֒*וְגַ֣םאַֽחֲרֵי־כֵ֗ן*אֲשֶׁ֨ר*יָבֹ֜אוּבְּנֵ֤י*הָֽאֱלֹהִים֙*אֶל־בְּנ֣וֹתהָֽאָדָ֔ם*וְיָלְד֖וּ*לָהֶ֑םהֵ֧מָּה*הַגִּבֹּרִ֛ים*אֲשֶׁ֥רמֵעוֹלָ֖ם*אַנְשֵׁ֥י*הַשֵּֽׁם׃The Nephilim were in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bore children to them; the same were the mighty men that were of old, the men of renown.6:5*וַיַּ֣רְא*יְהוָ֔ה*כִּ֥י*רַבָּ֛הרָעַ֥ת*הָאָדָ֖ם*בָּאָ֑רֶץוְכָל־יֵ֙צֶר֙*מַחְשְׁבֹ֣ת*לִבּ֔וֹרַ֥ק*רַ֖ע*כָּל־הַיּֽוֹם׃And the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.6:6*וַיִּנָּ֣חֶם*יְהוָ֔ה*כִּֽי־עָשָׂ֥האֶת־הָֽאָדָ֖ם*בָּאָ֑רֶץוַיִּתְעַצֵּ֖ב*אֶל־לִבּֽוֹ׃And it repented the Lord that He had made man on the earth, and it grieved Him at His heart.6:7*וַיֹּ֣אמֶר*יְהוָ֗ה*אֶמְחֶ֨האֶת־הָאָדָ֤םאֲשֶׁר־בָּרָ֙אתִי֙*מֵעַל֙*פְּנֵ֣יהָֽאֲדָמָ֔ה*מֵֽאָדָם֙עַד־בְּהֵמָ֔ה*עַד־רֶ֖מֶשׂוְעַד־ע֣וֹף*הַשָּׁמָ֑יִם*כִּ֥ינִחַ֖מְתִּי*כִּ֥י*עֲשִׂיתִֽם׃And the Lord said: ‘I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and creeping thing, and fowl of the air; for it repenteth Me that I have made them.’

Your posts should not be this long! Nobody will take the time
to read it.
 

popsthebuilder

New member
I don't expect too many will be reading the Hebrew, so it's not that long.

It's pertinent to the conversation. And scripture.

Not forcing any to read it, but expect they would if they were passionate about Christ and GOD.
 
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