The Trinity

The Trinity

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Is it above God ????????

Or just a mixture of God and Jesus' spirit ??????


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You are an exeedingly unpleasant person, spiritually blind and yet broadcasting that you know it all. You don't bother to read my posts and you go on spreading lies about JWs, lies that I have addressed in those posts to you. You just don't want to hear anything other than what you have ingrained in your head! I know who my God is, and He is the God of the Bible, JEHOVAH, the Most High. (Psalm 83:18, KJV)

JWs are a false cult. You have described yourself pretty well in this post. You butcher Scripture to try and make it fit your sick and twisted doctrines. You are here to spread your poison and deceive others.


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You have no idea what I post.

God is a spirit.
He created a spiritual son exactly like himself.

Then he created everything else through his spirit son.

When the time was right he sent that spirit son, who is a form of God, into the man he provided to hold his true son.

The WORD is that spiritual son, a spirit, translated as an IT in the first of English translations and changed in the KJV.

Your extremely limited theology is in need of a huge update Glorydaz.

The express image of God is the spirit son of God. This spirit is the WORD that became flesh. Jesus is the flesh body God provided for his spirit son who came down from heaven. Heb 10.5. This all happened at the baptism of Jesus when Jesus became the Christ, the anointed one of God. Jesus is the Lamb of God, the perfect sacrifice for our sins. Jesus Christ is our Lord. But it is his Father who is our God. Jesus was made Lord of all creation by his God.

Open your mind friend and see the Lord for who he is. He is the son servant of his God. He was sent against his will to bring light to this world and die for for our sins as a man. Any power he had was given to him by his God.

Read my posts slower my friend, i have an awesum God who loved us enough to send his true son to take the form of man and die for us.

I Love the God of my Lord Jesus Christ.

JWs make more sense than you do, and they're an obvious cult. JWs don't appear to be as confused as you are.


Well-known member
Both Trinitarians and Unitarians hate these verses:

Exodus 15:11
11 Who is like unto thee, O Lord, among the gods? who is like thee, glorious in holiness, fearful in praises, doing wonders?​

Exodus 18:11
11 Now I know that the Lord is greater than all gods: for in the thing wherein they dealt proudly he was above them.​

Exodus 23:32-33
32 Thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor with their gods.
33 They shall not dwell in thy land, lest they make thee sin against me: for if thou serve their gods, it will surely be a snare unto thee.​

Deuteronomy 6:14
14 Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which are round about you;​

This last one puts the rest into perspective, as far as I can tell.

Deuteronomy 10:17
17 For the Lord your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:​

I dont hate those at all, but you still havent replied to the ones in the graphic. Do you hate them?

It's because you know there's a strong case for the Trinity view but dont want to admit it by addressing it.


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Being in an Ad Hoc mode is obvious that you don't agree on the Philippians passage.
Thought I would return the favor. You are numb in that you can't comprehend the simplicity of what it is to have personality. The Holy Spirit, having personality separates him from the Father. He is a distinct person. He is God.

Acts 5:3-4 English Standard Version (ESV)

3 But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back for yourself part of the proceeds of the land? 4 While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal? Why is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to man but to God.”

The H.S. does not have a "distinct personality." Whatever personality it evidences is the personality of the Father, Jehovah. Your quote shows that I am correct. Lying to the H.S. is lying to Jehovah, since it is His spirit. The statement, "you have not lied to man but to God," shows that, indeed, lying in that situation was lying to Jehovah. Jehovah is God, as Jesus said, and therefore lying "to the H.S." is actually lying to Jehovah. The H.S. is not something separate from Jehovah.

Jesus also said that the H.S. was Jehovah's H.S.---not his own. If they were three equal entities, the H.S. would have been his also. If Jesus said that the Spirit was his, it was only because the Father allowed him to use it. If the H.S. was Jesus' also, he wouldn't have said that it was the Father's.

"For it is not you who speak, but it is the Spirit of your FATHER who speaks in you." (Matthew 10:20, NASB)

"I will ask the FATHER, and He will give you another helper....that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive...." (John 14:16,17, NASB)

"But the helper, the Holy Spirit, that the FATHER will send in my name...." (John 14:26, NASB)

"When the helper comes, whom I will send to you from the FATHER, that is the Spirit of truth that proceeds FROM THE FATHER...." (John 15:26, NASB)

Jesus quoted from Isaiah 61 and applied it to himself, as the one being anointed. The Spirit was the Father's Spirit. "The Spirit of the LORD [YHWH] is upon me, because He anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim release to the captives....[etc.]" (Luke 4:18, NASB)

"If you, then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly FATHER give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?" (Luke 11:13, NASB)

How could there be any question as to whose H.S. the H.S. is? And if it were a person by itself, surely it wouldn't need to be sent by anybody else! After all, you say that it is equal to the other 2 Gods. But the truth is obviously that the H.S. is an immaterial entity emanating FROM the Father, and does not act on its own.


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In '75? The very year they blew the return of Christ prediction? You must be a die hard...probably think you're one of the 144,000.

G.O. will not touch the Trinity challenge several pages back, and LA isn't smart enough. It's your turn to take one for your team.

Thank you for at least taking time to read my posts. Yes, I remember 1975 like it was yesterday, and I know the WT didn't push that year as the final year. In fact, as I remember, the final magazine of 1974 didn't even mention it. Everyone in my congregation thought "if the end comes in '75, good; if it doesn't that's OK too." I don't personally know anyone who cancelled their insurance or sold their house. You know---what would've been the point of doing that anyway? If the end was coming, why bother to cancel your insurance or sell your house?

Anyway, no, I never have thought I was of the anointed 144,000 who will rule with Christ. I'm excited to have the hope of living here on Earth in paradise conditions.

As for your last comment....I have been "taking one" for my team for several posts now on this thread. I'll bump up what I wrote a couple days ago and add to it.



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I dont hate those at all, but you still havent replied to the ones in the graphic. Do you hate them?

It's because you know there's a strong case for the Trinity view but dont want to admit it by addressing it.
Does the case for the Trinity really sound strong to you?

You ask how many gods are mentioned in the Bible, the answer is that there are many gods mentioned in the Bible.

Judaism (the religion of the Hebrews in the Old Testament) was thought to be odd because it was a monotheistic religion (worship only one god) in the midst of a pantheistic (worship many gods) world.

Christianity (the religion of the New Testament) was a restoration of true Judaism during a time when Judaism had turned into a religion of faithless works.

For forty years after the crucifixion, there was no question about whether Jesus was God Himself, since the Christian church was under the leadership of the disciples, and the disciples had all walked, talked, ate, slept, and wept with Jesus, and knew Him as a man sent by God.

As the disciples died out, the Gentile converts to Christianity brought in a number of heresies based on their pantheistic religions and Greek philosophy.

Gradually it became more important to understand the nature of Jesus and His relationship with His Father instead of believing the scriptures which clearly state Jesus is the Son of God. These pantheistic converts to Christianity couldn't accept that Jesus could be anything other than a god, but they were also being chastised for that by the Christians with the monotheistic belief that there is only one God, so a compromise was made, and the Trinity doctrine developed for three hundred years until it was formulated in the Council of Nicea.

According to the Bible, the only god who is to be worshiped as a god is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Even if you find several verses that appear to say that Jesus is a god, the only god who is to be worshiped as a god is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Even if the Trinity doctrine is true, God did not reveal Himself to anyone writing the Bible as a triune god, God did not say to worship Him as a triune god, and the only god we are told to worship as a god is God the Father.


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No sir, and it's sad so many are letting themselves be taken to the spiritual cleaners.:devil:

There are verses in the New Testament which might appear to support the traditional doctrine of the trinity, but good research in the Scriptures and the history of the doctrine has brought me and many others to the conviction that "the case for the trinity rests on questionable treatment of the biblical documents" (stated by Anthony Buzzard & Charles Hunting in their interesting book, The Doctrine of the Trinity, Christianity's Self-Inflicted Wound).

The case for the trinity "ignores the massive evidence for unitary monotheism--the belief in one God as a single person, the Father of Jesus Christ--and relies heavily on inference from a few select verses." It isolates certain texts and forgets that their context is the whole of Scripture.

Doctrines must be built upon plain, straightforward texts. After much research by a number of Biblical experts, many of them now admit that the trinity doctrine cannot be documented in the Bible, and is truly a distortion of Bible teachings. It is my desire, and that of other non-trinitarians, that people will examine the evidence that counters the trinity doctrine with an open mind.

Church historians have recorded that believers in God as a single person were "at the beginning of the third century still the large majority." (Encyclopedia Britannica, 11th edition, Vol.23, p.963)

Present-day fundamental Christianity claims to believe in the inerrancy of Scripture and the authority of Christ, and yet they have never come to believe in a statement made by Christ himself that summed up his feeling & knowledge of his Father: "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You sent." (John 17:3) Are they totally insensitive to the warning issued by Jesus when he said, "In vain they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commands of men"? (Matthew 15:9) Have they fallen under the spell of theological leaders, mainly from the 2nd to the 5th century, when they allowed their Greek philosophy backgrounds to corrupt the Hebrew thought which formed the basis of the young Christian church?

Neither the Old Testament nor the New Testament offer evidence for the doctrine of the trinity. A person can establish this fact by a careful, open-minded examination of the Biblical writings. There is no passage of Scripture that asserts that God is three, no authentic verse which claims that the one God is three persons, three spirits, three divine infinite minds, or three anything. Any claim that there are three who make up the Deity must be based on inference, rather than plain statements. The trinitarian concept relies on often tortured logic which lacks solid support in the earliest Christian writings.


I brought this up from page 10 because I don't think anyone has commented on it (except LA, who agreed if I remember correctly). Bright Raven had said, "Let's get straight who Jesus is before we go into that," or something to that effect, and I posted who Jesus was, but Bright Raven never commented on my first post. Just avoiding some uncomfortable points?

Anyway, there is my post, and I would appreciate any comments...esp. if they are thoughtful and aimed at really explaining why they disagree---pointing to specific parts of my citations, and not just calling me names and saying "you're wrong."

Now, to expand on that post. I think most of us here believe that God reveals Himself in the pages of the Bible. So wouldn't we take it on ourselves to examine whatever evidence there is in the Scriptures that will help us to figure out who God is? Someone who is really seeking for the truth will carefully sift through all the relevant texts, like the Beroeans (Acts 17:11). They dared to see "if these things were so", that Paul was telling them.

I like what Thomas Jefferson said about the trinity doctrine: "The Trinity is an unintelligible proposition of Platonic mysticisms that three are one and one is three; and yet one is NOT three and three are not one!" (See The Religious Life of Thomas Jefferson, C.B. Sanford, 1987, p.88)

It can be seen, upon scrutiny, that such opinions are quite sensible. Nevertheless, religious leaders insist that you must believe in the trinity to be a Christian! Otherwise, they teach, you must be branded a "cultist." But how can we be expected to agree with something that can neither be explained nor understood??? Answer this: Is it fair to ask Christians to accept the doctrine "on faith"?---A doctrine that is never mentioned by name and never discussed in the pages of the New Testament (or the O.T.)! Isn't it reasonable to expect somewhere in Scripture a precise, clear formulation of the strange proposition that God is "three-in-one"?

Church history shows that the idea of even two equal persons in the "Godhead"---the Father and the Son---didn't receive formal approval of the Church until three hundred years after Jesus walked the earth, at the Council of Nicea in 325 A.D., and this through political agitation. Why did it take so long for the Church to formally present the doctrine of a "Godhead" of two persons, and later of three? And then only under heavy political pressure??? Following Nicea, hundreds if not thousands of Christians died at the hands of other "Christians" because they believed, still, that God was a single Person!

The trinity doctrine defies both logic and rational explanation, but that doesn't seem to dampen the trinitarian's resolve to protect AT ALL COSTS this complex theological formula. The anger & agitation caused by anyone questioning the trinity doctrine is actually puzzling....does this betray a lack of confidence in this so-called unquestionable "party-line" of all of the ministers in Christendom?

Indeed, the majority view does not make the doctrine true. All of Christendom was once required to reject Galileo & Copernicus and hold the opinion that the earth was the center of the solar system. Didn't the pope apologize for this in the 20th century? I wonder if he'll wind up apologizing for the spurious trinity doctrine.

:maxi: (The Church to Galileo, for centuries.) :think:


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Good post about the spirit of the Father.

Finally, we are getting some scholarly posts and not just Gross neck mockings.


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Please show me where in the Scriptures the words "God the Son" appear.:confused:

The term "God the Son" does not need to appear in scripture. We all know each kind reproduces after its kind (Genesis 1:24).

Jesus said this flesh profits nothing and we must be born of the Spirit to enter the kingdom of God.


New member
Peurile. The context of the graphic is God, Christ and the Spirit. You pretended to misunderstand that so you could avoid refuting it point be point, as an honest person would do.

Someone else please take a look at the link he just posted and tell me if I'm wrong.

I took a look, and he didn't answer wrongly; he just didn't give complete answers, or, embellish his points. I don't think he "pretended to misunderstand." But I will enjoy refuting your graphic, point by point, though I'm not sure if I actually saw this "graphic." (I'm computer illiterate, actually!)

(1) Does the Bible mention three distinct Persons?

Not a very clear question. It was answered truthfully. But I think I get what you're getting at. No, the Bible does not mention THREE distinct Persons that are involved in a "Godhead." There is no "Godhead," but there are TWO distinct Persons that are over all others, though not equal.

(2) Does the bible refer to each as "God"?

No, not at all. Jesus himself referred to the Father as the only God, and he said that he was the SON of God.

(3) Does the Bible teach that there is only one God?

Yes, absolutely, and that God is the Father of Jesus.

"For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things...." (I Corinthians 8:5,6, NASB)

Jesus to the Father: "YOU are the only true God." (John 17:3)

"I ascend to my Father and your Father, and my God and your God." (John 20:17, NASB)

Further comment?


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Yes, absolutely, and that God is the Father of Jesus.

Yes, God is the Father of Jesus and us by his spirit power.

Jesus' mom became pregnant by the power of God's spirit (Luke 1:35).

Paul explained that God's spirit is a spirit of power and love and a sound mind (2 Timothy 1:7).

Jesus told his disciples they would receive power through the holy spirit (Acts 1:8).

Paul told the Corinthians that the kingdom of God is not in word but in power (1 Corinthians 4:20).


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I went to college with a very intelligent guy, now an atheist who essentially worships Star Wars, whose family was Watchtower in '75. He said they lost everything because they bought into, job, all of it. Same with other families that he knew. That didn't happen by accident.

musterion.....I just posted somewhere that most of us did not sell our houses, quit our jobs, cash in our insurances, max out our credit cards, etc. What would have been the point, if the end was coming right then in 1975? Why did some lose everything? Were they hoping to rip off all of the people they owed money to and live it up big-time before the year turned? It makes no sense otherwise.

Those people were fools, and they obviously cared more for their material stuff than they did their God. I find it ridiculous that people actually did that to themselves. It wasn't pushed by the WT because if it was, we would've been expecting it with no reservations.


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The term "God the Son" does not need to appear in scripture. We all know each kind reproduces after its kind (Genesis 1:24).

Jesus said this flesh profits nothing and we must be born of the Spirit to enter the kingdom of God.

You never read my post where I asked you to comment on this! I said that if "kind reproduces after its kind," and that proves that Jesus is God because God produced him, then what of the other angels and mankind? God made the angels and humans.....does that mean that they are all "God" also?

Your argument falls flat.

(And I haven't argued against the idea that one must be born of the Spirit to enter the kingdom of God.)