Theology Club: The Rapture is Found in the Epistle of James

[SaulToPaul 2]

STP this is for you :first: - you called it right - the guy is a closet Acts 2 Mid-Acts wannabe... the Pope of "WRONG!" lol

Yes, he has shifted the beginning from Acts 2 to a few years later, but there is no real discernible difference in Jerry and an Acts 2 dispensationlist.

Everything the LORD taught the twelve about their mission, purpose, and inheritance went out the window as they were shifted into the Body with no warning or explanation. They were left trying to understand Paul, as all they had known was changed.

It goes against the very fabric of who God is, and what his Word said.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Yes, he has shifted the beginning from Acts 2 to a few years later, but there is no real discernible difference in Jerry and an Acts 2 dispensationlist.

That is not true. I have always been a Mid-Acts believer.

I challenge you to give any evidence that supports your assertion.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

That is not true. I have always been a Mid-Acts believer.

I challenge you to give any evidence that supports your assertion.

The only discernible difference between you and an Acts 2 believer is the beginning of the church age.

 

[Danoh]

The only discernible difference between you and an Acts 2 believer is the beginning of the church age.

Lol, it appears he is Acts 3 - "so we see here" (in my distortions) "that the Lord will return with the Body" blah, blah, blah.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Is "the husbandman coming" in James referring to the Rapture?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

The only discernible difference between you and an Acts 2 believer is the beginning of the church age.

That is not evidence that at one time I was an Acts 2 believer!

You were just making up things which were not true when you accused me of originally being Acts 2!

How would you like it if others did that to you?

Jerry, you aren't a dummy. You can read James and see that it is soaked in tribulation language.

Is defending "the original MAD" more important than truth?

Once again you want to change the subject. You continue to run and hide from the fact that James describes the appearance of the Lord Jesus as being "imminent."

The following passage from the book of Hebrews demonstrates that the Jewish believers were expecting an "imminent" return of the Lord Jesus:

"So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look (apekdechomai) for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation" (Heb.9:28).​

Here the Greek word apekdechomai is used and it means "to expect, wait or look for" (The Analytical Greek Lexicon Revised, 37).

If the "appearing" of the Lord Jesus could not happen until certain prophesised events occured (such as the abomination of desolation of Matthew 24:15) then it is evident that before those events happened no one would be looking for that appearance, much less eagerly expecting that appearance:

apekdechomai: "To await eagerly or expectantly for some future event...to look forward eagerly, to await expectantly" (Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament Based on Semantic Domains; Volume 2, ed. Louw and Nida, 296).​

According to your ideas the author of Hebrews was telling the Jewish believers to be looking for the Lord's appearance and waiting expectantly for the Lord's appearance even though he knew that he could not possibly appear at that time.

That is absurd and you are too smart to believe that illogical idea.

Is defending the teaching found in the Neo-MAD community more important than the truth?

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Is "the husbandman coming" in James referring to the Rapture?

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

That is not evidence that at one time I was an Acts 2 believer!

You were just making up things which were not true when you accused me of originally being Acts 2!

How would you like it if others did that to you?



Once again you want to change the subject. You continue to run and hide from the fact that James describes the appearance of the Lord Jesus as being "imminent."

The following passage from the book of Hebrews demonstrates that the Jewish believers were expecting an "imminent" return of the Lord Jesus:

"So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look (apekdechomai) for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation" (Heb.9:28).​

Here the Greek word apekdechomai is used and it means "to expect, wait or look for" (The Analytical Greek Lexicon Revised, 37).

If the "appearing" of the Lord Jesus could not happen until certain prophesised events occured (such as the abomination of desolation of Matthew 24:15) then it is evident that before those events happened no one would be looking for that appearance, much less eagerly expecting that appearance:

apekdechomai: "To await eagerly or expectantly for some future event...to look forward eagerly, to await expectantly" (Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament Based on Semantic Domains; Volume 2, ed. Louw and Nida, 296).​

According to your ideas the author of Hebrews was telling the Jewish believers to be looking for the Lord's appearance and waiting expectantly for the Lord's appearance even though he knew that he could not possibly appear at that time.

That is absurd and you are too smart to believe that illogical idea.

Is defending the teaching found in the Neo-MAD community more important than the truth?

Only Jerry can Greek enough to turn Hebrews 9:28 into the Rapture.

Baloney.

 

[Danoh]

Only Jerry can Greek enough to turn Hebrews 9:28 into the Rapture.

Baloney.

It just hit me; Jerry is Barney Fife to our Andy, lol

You know how the Barney character is ever compelled by a profound insecurity to lord it over others - and how he is not only often wrong in his attempt, but also, in what he is asserting?

And how Andy puts up with, covers up for, and indulges him?

Only for Barney to conclude he was "the cat's meow?"

Off he goes to Mt. Pilot to prove what an incompetent he really is.

Only for the luck of Andy showing up to cover up for him, indulge him, and save the day, lol

Lol, Andy was an enabler of the worst sort.

Gomer - an even greater buffoon; got along just fine without Andy's meddling. Even got his own TV show, lol

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Gomer - an even greater buffoon; got along just fine without Andy's meddling. Even got his own TV show, lol

Yes, Gomer and Goober did not have the deeply rooted insecurity that Barn battled with. They were bafoons, but happy. They didn't realize they were bafoons. Yet Barn was a bafoon who wanted desperately to be Big Barn the Great.

 

[Danoh]

Yes, Gomer and Goober did not have the deeply rooted insecurity that Barn battled with. They were bafoons, but happy. They didn't realize they were bafoons. Yet Barn was a bafoon who wanted desperately to be Big Barn the Great.

When you think on it, Gomer was the best of Andy and Barney.

While Goober was the best of Andy and Gomer, lol

Gomer was the Mystery some assert the OT hid K:

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

When you think on it, Gomer was the best of Andy and Barney.

While Goober was the best of Andy and Gomer, lol

Gomer was the Mystery some assert the OT hid K:

You lost me, I may just become a covenant Andy Griffith fan and forget all of this mystery stuff!

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Is "the husbandman coming" in James referring to the Rapture?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Only Jerry can Greek enough to turn Hebrews 9:28 into the Rapture.

Baloney.

Now all you are doing nothing more than giving an excuse why you do not even attempt to prove what I said here is in error:

You continue to run and hide from the fact that James describes the appearance of the Lord Jesus as being "imminent."

The following passage from the book of Hebrews demonstrates that the Jewish believers were expecting an "imminent" return of the Lord Jesus:

"So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look (apekdechomai) for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation" (Heb.9:28).​

Here the Greek word apekdechomai is used and it means "to expect, wait or look for" (The Analytical Greek Lexicon Revised, 37).

If the "appearing" of the Lord Jesus could not happen until certain prophesised events occured (such as the abomination of desolation of Matthew 24:15) then it is evident that before those events happened no one would be looking for that appearance, much less eagerly expecting that appearance:

apekdechomai: "To await eagerly or expectantly for some future event...to look forward eagerly, to await expectantly" (Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament Based on Semantic Domains; Volume 2, ed. Louw and Nida, 296).​

According to your ideas the author of Hebrews was telling the Jewish believers to be looking for the Lord's appearance and waiting expectantly for it even though he knew that he could not possibly appear at that time.

That is absurd and you are too smart to believe that illogical idea. However, you just continue to run and hide from these facts.

 

[DAN P]

That does not make the verses which I quoted go away. You do not want to discuss the evifdence which I quoted so why did you even come on this thread?

Hi and your CONTEXT is just BLOVIATING !!

So , since you can not fine the Greek word for RAPTURE you are trying to cover it up with a LATIN , word RAPTUROS ??

You can use Greek word " COMING /PAROUSIA in 1 Thess 2:1 which what Acts 28 people use !!



dan p

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Is "the husbandman coming" in James referring to the Rapture?

Of course it is:

"Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain. Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh (eggizo)" (Jas.5:7-8).​

The Greek word translated "draweth nigh" is eggizo and that word means "to be imminent" (A Greek English Lexicon, Liddell & Scott [Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1940], 467).

Paul Sadler, one of the chief spokesmen within the Neo-MAD movement, says the following about the events which will happen when the Lord Jesus returns at the rapture:

"According to Paul's gospel the Rapture is 'imminent,' that is, it could take place at any moment. There are no signs, times, or seasons that will precede this glorious event" [emphasis mine] (Sadler, "The Present Obsession With the Anti-Christ," The Berean Searchlight, June, 1999, 7).​

There is only one appearing of the Lord Jesus which can be described as being imminent and that is the rapture. So James' words at 5:7-8 are speaking of the Lord Jesus' coming at the rapture.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Now all you are doing nothing more than giving an excuse why you do not even attempt to prove what I said here is in error:

You continue to run and hide from the fact that James describes the appearance of the Lord Jesus as being "imminent."

The following passage from the book of Hebrews demonstrates that the Jewish believers were expecting an "imminent" return of the Lord Jesus:

"So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look (apekdechomai) for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation" (Heb.9:28).​

Here the Greek word apekdechomai is used and it means "to expect, wait or look for" (The Analytical Greek Lexicon Revised, 37).

If the "appearing" of the Lord Jesus could not happen until certain prophesised events occured (such as the abomination of desolation of Matthew 24:15) then it is evident that before those events happened no one would be looking for that appearance, much less eagerly expecting that appearance:

apekdechomai: "To await eagerly or expectantly for some future event...to look forward eagerly, to await expectantly" (Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament Based on Semantic Domains; Volume 2, ed. Louw and Nida, 296).​

According to your ideas the author of Hebrews was telling the Jewish believers to be looking for the Lord's appearance and waiting expectantly for it even though he knew that he could not possibly appear at that time.

That is absurd and you are too smart to believe that illogical idea. However, you just continue to run and hide from these facts.

Is "the husbandman coming" in James referring to the Rapture?

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Of course it is:

"Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain. Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh (eggizo)" (Jas.5:7-8).​

The Greek word translated "draweth nigh" is eggizo and that word means "to be imminent" (A Greek English Lexicon, Liddell & Scott [Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1940], 467).

Paul Sadler, one of the chief spokesmen within the Neo-MAD movement, says the following about the events which will happen when the Lord Jesus returns at the rapture:

"According to Paul's gospel the Rapture is 'imminent,' that is, it could take place at any moment. There are no signs, times, or seasons that will precede this glorious event" [emphasis mine] (Sadler, "The Present Obsession With the Anti-Christ," The Berean Searchlight, June, 1999, 7).​

There is only one appearing of the Lord Jesus which can be described as being imminent and that is the rapture. So James' words at 5:7-8 are speaking of the Lord Jesus' coming at the rapture.

Was the rapture taught in the 4 gospels, then?

 

[Danoh]

Oh this is so difficult, let me see, here in my KJV...

Hebrews 9:

28. So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Hmmm, that sounds Pauline, it is. I'm done.

Yeah, sure it is. Remain delusional, Jerry.

By the way, loud mouth; just to prove STP's theory wrong - that perhaps agreeing with you will shut you up:

I do hold that the Little Flock received the atonement that Corporate Israel has to await another day for.

You just don't know how to read other's posts.

Hunh, what the heck was that loud metal noise!

Oh! Just Jerry dragging out his soapbox, again - drat, lol.

You were wrong, STP. There is no appeasing the man. The gnat will be with us til his last breath, lol

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

It takes much twisting to mix the Rapture, only taught by Paul, with the Second Coming. It is astonishing that someone could be so sold out to the MAD Co-Popes as to continue doing it.