Theology Club: The Rapture is Found in the Epistle of James

[Jerry Shugart]

Jerry, you aren't a dummy. You can read James and see that it is soaked in tribulation language.

Is defending "the original MAD" more important than truth?

Once again you want to change the subject. You continue to run and hide from the fact that James describes the appearance of the Lord Jesus as being "imminent."

The following passage from the book of Hebrews demonstrates that the Jewish believers were expecting an "imminent" return of the Lord Jesus:

"So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look (apekdechomai) for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation" (Heb.9:28).​

Here the Greek word apekdechomai is used and it means "to expect, wait or look for" (The Analytical Greek Lexicon Revised, 37).

If the "appearing" of the Lord Jesus could not happen until certain prophesised events occured (such as the abomination of desolation of Matthew 24:15) then it is evident that before those events happened no one would be looking for that appearance, much less eagerly expecting that appearance:

apekdechomai: "To await eagerly or expectantly for some future event...to look forward eagerly, to await expectantly" (Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament Based on Semantic Domains; Volume 2, ed. Louw and Nida, 296).​

According to your ideas the author of Hebrews was telling the Jewish believers to be looking for the Lord's appearance and waiting expectantly for the Lord's appearance even though he knew that he could not possibly appear at that time.

That is absurd and you are too smart to believe that illogical idea.

Is defending the teaching found in the Neo-MAD community more important than the truth?

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Once again you want to change the subject. You continue to run and hide from the fact that James describes the appearance of the Lord Jesus as being "imminent."

The following passage from the book of Hebrews demonstrates that the Jewish believers were expecting an "imminent" return of the Lord Jesus:

"So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look (apekdechomai) for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation" (Heb.9:28).​

Here the Greek word apekdechomai is used and it means "to expect, wait or look for" (The Analytical Greek Lexicon Revised, 37).

If the "appearing" of the Lord Jesus could not happen until certain prophesised events occured (such as the abomination of desolation of Matthew 24:15) then it is evident that before those events happened no one would be looking for that appearance, much less eagerly expecting that appearance:

apekdechomai: "To await eagerly or expectantly for some future event...to look forward eagerly, to await expectantly" (Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament Based on Semantic Domains; Volume 2, ed. Louw and Nida, 296).​

According to your ideas the author of Hebrews was telling the Jewish believers to be looking for the Lord's appearance and waiting expectantly for the Lord's appearance even though he knew that he could not possibly appear at that time.

That is absurd and you are too smart to believe that illogical idea.

Is defending the teaching found in the Neo-MAD community more important than the truth?

Hebrews 9:28 (KJV) works against you.
The Lord remains in heaven behind the veil.
The Day of Atonement is not complete until the high priest returns without sin.

When he is unveiled, the Revelation, the Day of Atonement is complete.

May as well accept it. It won't change.

 

[DAN P]

That does not make the verses which I quoted go away. You do not want to discuss the evifdence which I quoted so why did you even come on this thread?

Hi and as I said Gal 3:28 will ALWAYS TRUMP your OP !!

There are no Jews in the body of Christ , why do you NOT believe what Paul has written ?

In the dispensation of Grace there IS NO Greeks , Bond or Free NEITHER Males nor Females , so where are the Jews in HERE ?

You will never find any !!:bang::bang:

dan p

 

[DAN P]

Those in the Neo-MAD community teach that those who received the Hebrew epistles (Hebrews though Jude) were not members of the Body of Christ.

The original teachers of MAD taught that they were.

Hi and I am one of these , even tho I believe Paul wrote Hebrews and I do not care what anyone else believes and ONLY care about what I believe and Gal 3:28 will TRUMP and Jews found in the Body , as they are not there !!

If all Jews be in the Body , then there will NEVER be a Millennium and Satan wins !!

dan p

 

[DAN P]

Those believers who received the epistle of James are members of the Body of Christ. They were taught that the Lord Jesus could appear at the rapture at any moment, the same thing Paul taught.

Paul Sadler, one of the chief spokesmen within the Neo-MAD movement, says the following about the events which will happen when the Lord Jesus returns at the rapture:

"According to Paul's gospel the Rapture is 'imminent,' that is, it could take place at any moment. There are no signs, times, or seasons that will precede this glorious event" [emphasis mine] (Sadler, "The Present Obsession With the Anti-Christ," The Berean Searchlight, June, 1999, 7).​

Here is what James wrote:

"You too, be patient and stand firm, because the Lord's coming is near. Don't grumble against one another, brothers and sisters, or you will be judged. The Judge is standing at the door! (Jas 5:8-9).​

The Greek word translated "is near" at James 5:8 is eggizo and in this verse that word means "to be imminent" (A Greek English Lexicon, Liddell & Scott [Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1940], 467).

In an article found on the "Pre-Trib Research Center" web site Dr. Renald E. Showers writes:

"In light of James' statements C. Leslie Mitton wrote, 'James clearly believed, as others of his time did, that the coming of Christ was imminent.' On the basis of James' statements we can conclude that Christ's coming was imminent in New Testament times and continues to be so today, and that this fact should make a difference in the way Christians live" [emphasis added] (Showers, The Imminent Coming of Christ).​

The words "the Judge is standing at the door" certainly speak of the fact that the coming of the Judge is "is near" and it certainly has the quality of imminency.

Paul Sadler, of the Neo-MAD community, correctly understands that only those in the Body of Christ will be caught up to meet the Lord Jesus at the imminent appearance of the Lord Jesus:

"The 'secret' resurrection that will take place at the Rapture should never be confused with the 'first' resurrection at the Second Coming of Christ. Those who rightly divide the Word of truth now see that only the members of the Body of Christ will be raised at the Rapture" [emphasis mine] (Sadler, Exploring the Unsearchable Riches of Christ [Stephens Point, WI: Worzalla Publishing Co., 1993], 167).​

Therefore, we can know with certainty that those who received the epistle of James are members of the Body of Christ.

Hi and you should no better , that the word RAPTURE in not a Greek word , for #1 !!

#2 , Paul never used the words " born again " as found in John 3:3 , becaus e the minute we believe we are translated into the Kingdom of His dear Son Col 1:13 !!

#3 , It seem , that you are Part Law and Grace !!:bang::bang:

dan p

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

John 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.


James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.



Was the Rapture taught in the 4 gospels?

 

[Danoh]

John 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.


James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.



Was the Rapture taught in the 4 gospels?

John 14.

NOT!

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

John 14.

NOT!

Jerry believes the husbandman coming is the rapture.
Inconsistency abounds.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Hebrews 9:28 (KJV) works against you.
The Lord remains in heaven behind the veil.
The Day of Atonement is not complete until the high priest returns without sin.

When he is unveiled, the Revelation, the Day of Atonement is complete.

May as well accept it. It won't change.

As usual you did not address the points which I made.

Jerry believes the husbandman coming is the rapture.
Inconsistency abounds.

You refuse to address my points and then you misrepresent what I believe.

I just wonder what else you have up your sleeve.

 

[Danoh]

Speaking of refusing to address points:

I call them Neo-MAD because they are the New MAD. These people have abandoned the sound teachings of both Sir Robert Anderson and J.C. O'Hair of the original Mad and have adopted many of the teachings of the Acts 28 crowd.

From - Berean Bible Society - https://www.bereanbiblesociety.org -
Part 2: Gleanings From the Book of Acts silence of God
Posted By Pastor J. C. O'Hair On October 5, 1935 @ 11:30 am In 1935.10 - Bible Study For Bereans - October 1935.

The following from that document, is by J.C. O'Hair:

According to the same Record, none of the Twelve preached the gospel of the uncircumcision. Only one message was preached by one of them to the uncircumcision, and that was the “word” which God sent to Israel. Acts 10:35 and 36. That one message was preached to the household of a Gentile, who feared God, who loved Israel, who prayed to God always and who gave much alms to Israel. He was a just, devout man. Acts 10:1 and 2 and Acts 10:22.

Concerning the Book of Acts, Sir Robert Anderson, one of God’s most gifted Bible teachers, declares, in his “Silence of God”: “My contention is that the Acts, as a whole is the record of a temporary and transitional dispensation in which blessing was again offered to the Jew and again rejected.” “The right understanding of the Acts of the Apostles . . . a Book which is primarily the record, not as commonly supposed, of the founding of the Christian Church, but of the apostasy of the favoured nation.”

Let us not consider this learned brother as final authority, or his exegesis as infallible, neither let us be prejudiced by the teaching of any other so-called “big” Bible teachers who insist that the day of Pentecost ushered in the “dispensation of the mystery” mentioned in Ephesians 3:9, but let us receive their testimonies and search the Scriptures daily. It is rather difficult to believe that the “dispensation of the mystery”, with reference to the untraceable riches of Christ among the Gentiles, began on a Jewish feast day before the Apostle to the Gentiles was converted and commissioned, even seven years before Peter was authorized, by the “sheet of unclean creatures”, to preach the gospel of the circumcision to one respectable God-fearing Gentile, who apparently was an uncircumcised proselyte.

According to your fool notions, Jerry, one of those two men would have to fall under your Neo-Mad nonsense.

And "The Silence of God" is Cessasionist.

While, O'Hair, on the other hand, had believed that Divine Intervention is still in operation in some form.

Which of those two men is Neo, you buffoon.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Hi and you should no better , that the word RAPTURE in not a Greek word , for #1 !!

So what! Does that mean that the saints will not be "caught up" to meet the Lord Jesus in the air, the event which is commonly referred to as the rapture?

#2 , Paul never used the words " born again " as found in John 3:3 , becaus e the minute we believe we are translated into the Kingdom of His dear Son Col 1:13 !!

He used the word "regeneration" and that word means "born again."

#3 , It seem , that you are Part Law and Grace !!

Where is your evidence?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

While, O'Hair, on the other hand, had believed that Divine Intervention is still in operation in some form.

Anderson never said that Divine intervention is not in operation today at all. And please quote O'Hair.

 

[DAN P]

So what! Does that mean that the saints will not be "caught up" to meet the Lord Jesus in the air, the event which is commonly referred to as the rapture?



He used the word "regeneration" and that word means "born again."



Where is your evidence?

Hi , why did you answer that way for, and it is not scriptual , is it , so stick around as you STIR the pot as most of the Acts 13 people I meet and know will not stick their necks out !!

Where doe Paul use the words " born again " as John did in John 3:3 ??

If you can understand 1 Cor 15:8 as ONLY Paul was " aborted " and only Paul , you will arrive to Acts 9:6 AS the 12 were never " ABORTED " .

Then the question is , WHEN WILL ISRAEL BE ABORTED ." ????

After the Great Tribulation and not UNTIL THEN , Rom 11:25 and 26 . ans Acts 13 sticks out like SORE THUMB !!

dan p

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Where doe Paul use the words " born again " as John did in John 3:3 ??

Those were not John's words but instead the words of the Lord Jesus.

And if you are not born again then you won't be able to see the kingdom,much less enter it:

"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God" (Jn.3:3).​

 

[Danoh]

Anderson never said that Divine intervention is not in operation today at all. And please quote O'Hair.

Of course, per my post #14 on the following link, it is obvious you don't even know how to read Anderson:

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111090

YOU, you blow hard, are the Neo-Mad, you have been blowing all that hot air about all these decades.

 

[DAN P]

Those were not John's words but instead the words of the Lord Jesus.

And if you are not born again then you won't be able to see the kingdom,much less enter it:

"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God" (Jn.3:3).​

Hi and what Kingdom are you talking about ?

The Kingdom of Heaven that Jesus preached in Matt 4:17 ??

Or are you talking about the Kingdom of His Dear Son ??

Which is it ??

dan p

 

[Danoh]

...He used the word "regeneration" and that word means "born again."

Lol

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Hi and what Kingdom are you talking about ?

The Kingdom of Heaven that Jesus preached in Matt 4:17 ??

The earthly kingdom. Those in the Body of Christ will be with the Lord Jesus when they are caught up to meet Him in the air and after that we will be with Him for ever:

"Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord" (1 Thess.4:17).​

When the Lord Jesus returns to the earth to set up His earthly kingdom then all those in the Body of Christ will return with Him.

So if you are not "born again" you will not enter into the kingdom and you will not be a member of the Body of Christ.

 

[Danoh]

The earthly kingdom. Those in the Body of Christ will be with the Lord Jesus when they are caught up to meet Him in the air and after that we will be with Him for ever:

"Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord" (1 Thess.4:17).​

When the Lord Jesus returns to the earth to set up His earthly kingdom then all those in the Body of Christ will return with Him.

So if you are not "born again" you will not enter into the kingdom and you will not be a member of the Body of Christ.

Yeah, sure, okay "Neo."

Why then the need for the Apostle Paul; the Mystery; a New Creature; and all the rest?

You clearly are not even Acts 13, lol

STP this is for you :first: - you called it right - the guy is a closet Acts 2 Mid-Acts wannabe... the Pope of "WRONG!" lol

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Can't wait til Jerry is either banned forever, gets a life, or drops dead.

Your condition is getting worse and you need professional help at this time.

I will no longer respond to anything you say.

I pray in the name of the Lord that you will seek help.