The Old Covenant and the New Covenant are the same

Hobie

BANNED
Banned
..Law. Christ was the Son of God establishing the new covenant by perfect obedience to the law of God in fallen human flesh. Jesus was not just a devout Jew living under the old covenant, He was our example of how to live in the covenant with God. No church or religious institution or denomination can bestow on man a religious experience based on an intimate personal relationship with Christ. It is not given through the acceptance of reciting hail marys or following dogma, and obedience to the commandments and the performing of rituals cannot earn it. The believer can only attain this relationship in a constant renewing, growing, and unlimited life with God, or he may slip into a worship in form only.

Paul was so concerned about the slipping into a worship in form only, that he rebuked the churches in Galatia:

Galatians 4:9-11
“9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.”

It was necessary to explain to Jews and Gentiles alike the principles of man's salvation as an act of divine grace alone. Since man's obedience and keeping of the commandments could not contribute to his justification, if it was 'grace' alone, why then, obedience? Here we find the balance that excludes obedience as a means of 'earning' salvation but makes true obedience the natural fruit of salvation by faith. Human efforts at salvation by works are replaced by divine omnipotence as the only power to make man ready for the kingdom of righteousness. We must accept it by faith, and completely surrender our lives to Christ.

A covenant, in the ancient Near East in general and in Old Testament times specifically, was a solemn promise and/or agreement, often confirmed by an oath. If you ask the question, "When did the old covenant begin?" most people would say on Sinai, when the law was given. But if you ask, "When did the new covenant begin?" the answers are all over the place, but one text can clarify it.

Jeremiah 31:31-33
“31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

This text contains the basic elements of both covenants and also helps in understanding them.
The old covenant has the time, "I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt".
It has the covenant partners, "I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:"

It has the covenant objective, "I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

It has the covenant conditions, "my law"
Now let’s look at the new covenant in Hebrews 8:8-10:

“8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:"

Using the same passage which is repeated, the same elements are found for the New Testament, except for the difference in time.”

The new covenant has the time, "Behold, the days come".
It has the covenant partners, "a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:"

It has the covenant objective, " I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:".

It has the covenant conditions, "my laws"

So except for the time element, there is no difference between the two covenants. The covenant partners are the same, the covenant objective is the same, and the covenant conditions are the same. The old Covenant and the new Covenant are the same, it was by faith and denying self and trusting in God, and we are transformed. We see it here.

Matthew 16:24-25
24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

John 10:1-17
1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.
7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

John 10:27
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:


The covenants are one and the same, and there is only one gospel, and it is the gospel of Jesus Christ which is of faith. It was always that way from Adam on down.
 
:mock: "The Old Covenant and the New Covenant are the same"

Yes, so much Bible to twist, so little time.

inside-flintshire-internet-troll-300x192.png
 

Bradley D

Well-known member
Jesus was the only person who could live the commandments perfectly. Jesus was totally without sin. The Old Testament is also a history of Israel and its failure to live up to God's Word/Commandments.
 

Right Divider

Body part
Jesus was the only person who could live the commandments perfectly. Jesus was totally without sin. The Old Testament is also a history of Israel and its failure to live up to God's Word/Commandments.
There is a difference between never breaking the law (Jesus' unique place), and keeping the law, which contains actions to perform when one breaks the law.

Luk 1:5-6 KJV There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. (6) And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
 

Hobie

BANNED
Banned
Jesus was the only person who could live the commandments perfectly. Jesus was totally without sin. The Old Testament is also a history of Israel and its failure to live up to God's Word/Commandments.

Christ was the Son of God establishing the new covenant by perfect obedience to the law of God in fallen human flesh. Jesus was not just a devout Jew living under the old covenant, He was our example of how to live in the covenant with God.

The covenants are one and the same, and there is only one gospel, and it is the gospel of Jesus Christ which is of faith. It was always that way from Adam on down, and Christ confirms the law is of great importance to eternal life, even in the new covenant. If you have told or been lead to believe that the apostles preached and taught a different message than that of Christ, that is from another source not of God.

2 Corinthians 3:3
"Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart."

1 Corinthians 1:11-13
"11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?"

2 John 1:7-9
"7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son."
 

Right Divider

Body part
Christ was the Son of God establishing the new covenant by perfect obedience to the law of God in fallen human flesh. Jesus was not just a devout Jew living under the old covenant, He was our example of how to live in the covenant with God.
The new covenant is between the same two parties as the old covenant. Scripture is crystal clear on that.

Heb 8:8-11 KJV For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: (9) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. (10) For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: (11) And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

CRYSTAL CLEAR.

The covenants are one and the same, and there is only one gospel, and it is the gospel of Jesus Christ which is of faith. It was always that way from Adam on down, and Christ confirms the law is of great importance to eternal life, even in the new covenant. If you have told or been lead to believe that the apostles preached and taught a different message than that of Christ, that is from another source not of God.
The covenants and the gospels are NOT synonymous.

Anyone that has taught you that Paul received no revelation from Christ after His ascension is wrong and not of God.
 

Hobie

BANNED
Banned
The new covenant is between the same two parties as the old covenant. Scripture is crystal clear on that.

Heb 8:8-11 KJV For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: (9) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. (10) For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: (11) And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

CRYSTAL CLEAR.


The covenants and the gospels are NOT synonymous.

Anyone that has taught you that Paul received no revelation from Christ after His ascension is wrong and not of God.

I didn't say they were, they are pointing to the same law, whether in tables of stone, and in fleshy tables of the heart.
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
..Law.
Spoiler
Christ was the Son of God establishing the new covenant by perfect obedience to the law of God in fallen human flesh. Jesus was not just a devout Jew living under the old covenant, He was our example of how to live in the covenant with God. No church or religious institution or denomination can bestow on man a religious experience based on an intimate personal relationship with Christ. It is not given through the acceptance of reciting hail marys or following dogma, and obedience to the commandments and the performing of rituals cannot earn it. The believer can only attain this relationship in a constant renewing, growing, and unlimited life with God, or he may slip into a worship in form only.

Paul was so concerned about the slipping into a worship in form only, that he rebuked the churches in Galatia:

Galatians 4:9-11
“9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.”

It was necessary to explain to Jews and Gentiles alike the principles of man's salvation as an act of divine grace alone. Since man's obedience and keeping of the commandments could not contribute to his justification, if it was 'grace' alone, why then, obedience? Here we find the balance that excludes obedience as a means of 'earning' salvation but makes true obedience the natural fruit of salvation by faith. Human efforts at salvation by works are replaced by divine omnipotence as the only power to make man ready for the kingdom of righteousness. We must accept it by faith, and completely surrender our lives to Christ.

A covenant, in the ancient Near East in general and in Old Testament times specifically, was a solemn promise and/or agreement, often confirmed by an oath. If you ask the question, "When did the old covenant begin?" most people would say on Sinai, when the law was given. But if you ask, "When did the new covenant begin?" the answers are all over the place, but one text can clarify it.

Jeremiah 31:31-33
“31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

This text contains the basic elements of both covenants and also helps in understanding them.
The old covenant has the time, "I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt".
It has the covenant partners, "I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:"

It has the covenant objective, "I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

It has the covenant conditions, "my law"
Now let’s look at the new covenant in Hebrews 8:8-10:

“8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:"

Using the same passage which is repeated, the same elements are found for the New Testament, except for the difference in time.”

The new covenant has the time, "Behold, the days come".
It has the covenant partners, "a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:"

It has the covenant objective, " I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:".

It has the covenant conditions, "my laws"

So except for the time element, there is no difference between the two covenants. The covenant partners are the same, the covenant objective is the same, and the covenant conditions are the same. The old Covenant and the new Covenant are the same, it was by faith and denying self and trusting in God, and we are transformed. We see it here.

Matthew 16:24-25
24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

John 10:1-17
1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.
7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

John 10:27
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:



The covenants are one and the same, and there is only one gospel, and it is the gospel of Jesus Christ which is of faith. It was always that way from Adam on down.

copy & paste from another website

are you reddogs the seventh day adventist or are you plagiarizing him ?
 

k0de

Active member
..Law. Christ was the Son of God establishing the new covenant by perfect obedience to the law of God in fallen human flesh. Jesus was not just a devout Jew living under the old covenant, He was our example of how to live in the covenant with God. No church or religious institution or denomination can bestow on man a religious experience based on an intimate personal relationship with Christ. It is not given through the acceptance of reciting hail marys or following dogma, and obedience to the commandments and the performing of rituals cannot earn it. The believer can only attain this relationship in a constant renewing, growing, and unlimited life with God, or he may slip into a worship in form only.

Paul was so concerned about the slipping into a worship in form only, that he rebuked the churches in Galatia:

Galatians 4:9-11
“9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.”

It was necessary to explain to Jews and Gentiles alike the principles of man's salvation as an act of divine grace alone. Since man's obedience and keeping of the commandments could not contribute to his justification, if it was 'grace' alone, why then, obedience? Here we find the balance that excludes obedience as a means of 'earning' salvation but makes true obedience the natural fruit of salvation by faith. Human efforts at salvation by works are replaced by divine omnipotence as the only power to make man ready for the kingdom of righteousness. We must accept it by faith, and completely surrender our lives to Christ.

A covenant, in the ancient Near East in general and in Old Testament times specifically, was a solemn promise and/or agreement, often confirmed by an oath. If you ask the question, "When did the old covenant begin?" most people would say on Sinai, when the law was given. But if you ask, "When did the new covenant begin?" the answers are all over the place, but one text can clarify it.

Jeremiah 31:31-33
“31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

This text contains the basic elements of both covenants and also helps in understanding them.
The old covenant has the time, "I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt".
It has the covenant partners, "I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:"

It has the covenant objective, "I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

It has the covenant conditions, "my law"
Now let’s look at the new covenant in Hebrews 8:8-10:

“8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:"

Using the same passage which is repeated, the same elements are found for the New Testament, except for the difference in time.”

The new covenant has the time, "Behold, the days come".
It has the covenant partners, "a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:"

It has the covenant objective, " I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:".

It has the covenant conditions, "my laws"

So except for the time element, there is no difference between the two covenants. The covenant partners are the same, the covenant objective is the same, and the covenant conditions are the same. The old Covenant and the new Covenant are the same, it was by faith and denying self and trusting in God, and we are transformed. We see it here.

Matthew 16:24-25
24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

John 10:1-17
1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.
7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

John 10:27
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:


The covenants are one and the same, and there is only one gospel, and it is the gospel of Jesus Christ which is of faith. It was always that way from Adam on down.
It is true that both the Old and New Testaments are the story of the same God. But the Old Covenant was for a specific people in a specific place and time. His people Israel.

This same God makes a New covenant that give an opportunity to the people of Israel and to all the people of world to come back to him through the Lord Jesus Christ.

So how are they the same?
 

Hobie

BANNED
Banned
It is true that both the Old and New Testaments are the story of the same God. But the Old Covenant was for a specific people in a specific place and time. His people Israel.

This same God makes a New covenant that give an opportunity to the people of Israel and to all the people of world to come back to him through the Lord Jesus Christ.

So how are they the same?

If you have a 30mph on your local road and a 70mph on a highway, how are they the same. Its the same law.
 

k0de

Active member
If you have a 30mph on your local road and a 70mph on a highway, how are they the same. Its the same law.
Incomplete sentence. Should read "It's the same law for auto mobile speed limits in the United States of America."

Nice try. But unfortunately we aren't talking about speed limits.

Answer the question: How are the two covenants the same?
 

Right Divider

Body part
Easier said than done. Please explain your position?
It will be easy when God Himself gives them the ability to do it.

Eze 36:24-28 KJV For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. (25) Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. (26) A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. (27) And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. (28) And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
 

k0de

Active member
It will be easy when God Himself gives them the ability to do it.

Eze 36:24-28 KJV For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. (25) Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. (26) A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. (27) And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. (28) And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
That's good. But it is only good for Israel. What about the Gentiles?
 
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