The new evangelism (gospel)

[glorydaz]

You are stark raving bonkers if you think for a single moment it was that which offended me. I was deeply offended at being called a calvinist, because calvinists are under law. Your suggestion was worse than any insult you can through at a man who is saved by grace. To insinuate he is being saved by observance of the law. In doing so you despise the Spirit of grace.

Good, you admitted you were offended when I called you a Calvinist. That's a good start. What is it that gets offended if not a man's pride? The reason I called you that is because you claimed man cannot believe unto salvation. That speaks of the inability of man to respond to the Gospel...which is what Calvinists think. So, you'd better stop preaching what they preach or others will accuse you of the same thing. You can't preach what they preach without being associated with them in some way.

 

[Truster]

Good, you admitted you were offended when I called you a Calvinist. That's a good start. What is it that gets offended if not a man's pride? The reason I called you that is because you claimed man cannot believe unto salvation. That speaks of the inability of man to respond to the Gospel...which is what Calvinists think. So, you'd better stop preaching what they preach or others will accuse you of the same thing. You can't preach what they preach without being associated with them in some way.

A man of trust gets offended at anything that questions the power of the work of grace in his life. When someone suggests it is the power of his belief that put him in grace and that it is the power of the observance of the law that keeps him there.

My hope and prayer is that I shall become more and more offended by offences against grace. The day I don't is the day I'll really begin to get offended at myself.

 

[glorydaz]

A man of trust gets offended at anything that questions the power of the work of grace in his life. When someone suggests it is the power of his belief that put him in grace and that it is the power of the observance of the law that keeps him there.

My hope and prayer is that I shall become more and more offended by offences against grace. The day I don't is the day I'll really begin to worry.

Well, we certainly agree the observance of the law is useless.

It isn't an offence against Grace to say that it has to be accessed by faith. Why do you think God keeps telling us to believe on Him if we aren't able to do it? Why are we to preach the Gospel if it can't be responded to by man?

The death angel wouldn't pass over unless the blood was applied to the doorpost. It was an act of faith required by man that made the blood effectual.

 

[Truster]

Well, we certainly agree the observance of the law is useless.

It isn't an offence against Grace to say that it has to be accessed by faith. Why do you think God keeps telling us to believe on Him if we aren't able to do it? Why are we to preach the Gospel if it can't be responded to by man?

The death angel wouldn't pass over unless the blood was applied to the doorpost. It was an act of faith required by man that made the blood effectual.

Adam stood in trembling fear at the sound of the voice of Yah Veh. Adam would still be standing there if Yah Veh hadn't come to seek and to save that which was lost. The lost sinner is like Adam. Any sinner who thinks they have approached the throne of grace, while still dead, is lost beyond their wildest imagination. It is a counterfeit salvation based on the ease of passing through the wide gate.

That's why mothers love the sinners prayer, because they can lead their children to Jesus and make them twice the children of hell that they are.

A counterfeit evangel, that leads to a counterfeit salvation, that leads to a real Lake of Fire.

Broad gate and broad way and many go in thereat...

 

[Truster]

By grace are ye saved through trust, as long as man agrees to be saved.

Try and get this back on track.

There are counterfeits being offered. Counterfeit ways and counterfeited experiences and counterfeit destinations.
To be of any use a counterfeit must be so close to the original to pass as real. The counterfeit must also have an ability to produce counterfeit effects. This is why there are 41,000 protestant denominations and cults. Devotions(religions) produce effects. Without effects that tantalize the emotions people wouldn't bother going back a second time.

Counterfeit ways; Or truth..... Messiah is the Way.

Counterfeited experiences; Or true experience....... Finding the Strait Gate is the experience.

Counterfeit destinations; The certain destination..... The destination is life.

 

[Truster]

To distinguish between the true and the counterfeit is bring it to the Light of Truth.


"Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the trust; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Yah Shua is in you, except ye be reprobates?"

Most cults teach that simply believing in Jesus is enough. Paul says you must test yourself to make sure He is in you. The difference between accepting the historical Messiah and having Him in you.

The counterfeit says don't worry. Don't study. Don't make sure. Don't listen to him he just lies to his own advantage.

The real says, test yourself, take great pains to ensure accuracy and truth of doctrine, test the spirits, judge all things, be on your guard, make you calling and election sure, beware of dogs...

 

[Truster]

The counterfeit needs many "proofs" to substantiate its "authenticity".

Look at our confessions, look at our creeds, look at our traditions, look at our heritage, look at these dead men whom we venerate, look at the miracles*.

The real says, "Now trust is the substance of our hoping, the proof of those not seen". Hebrews 11:1


A miracle* is when the nature of something changes. Water into wine, an axe floating, sea parting and the dead being made alive.

 

[Epoisses]

By grace are ye saved through trust, as long as man agrees to be saved.

You are saved only by believing you are chosen ergo predestination supplants faith in a false Christ.

 

[Epoisses]

Adam stood in trembling fear at the sound of the voice of Yah Veh. Adam would still be standing there if Yah Veh hadn't come to seek and to save that which was lost. The lost sinner is like Adam. Any sinner who thinks they have approached the throne of grace, while still dead, is lost beyond their wildest imagination. It is a counterfeit salvation based on the ease of passing through the wide gate.

That's why mothers love the sinners prayer, because they can lead their children to Jesus and make them twice the children of hell that they are.

A counterfeit evangel, that leads to a counterfeit salvation, that leads to a real Lake of Fire.

Broad gate and broad way and many go in thereat...

Asking Jesus to come into your heart is the highest sin for the Clavinist. Their theology goes against Jesus himself who focused on works of love and faith.

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. Rev. 3:20-22

 

[Truster]

Asking Jesus to come into your heart is the highest sin for the Clavinist. Their theology goes against Jesus himself who focused on works of love and faith.

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. Rev. 3:20-22

The verse from Revelation has been taken apart and had the word "heart" added. Here we go again....by heart what is it you mean?

 

[Interplanner]

To distinguish between the true and the counterfeit is bring it to the Light of Truth.


"Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the trust; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Yah Shua is in you, except ye be reprobates?"

Most cults teach that simply believing in Jesus is enough. Paul says you must test yourself to make sure He is in you. The difference between accepting the historical Messiah and having Him in you.

The counterfeit says don't worry. Don't study. Don't make sure. Don't listen to him he just lies to his own advantage.

The real says, test yourself, take great pains to ensure accuracy and truth of doctrine, test the spirits, judge all things, be on your guard, make you calling and election sure, beware of dogs...

ACtually Paul is more concerned that we are IN HIM and the Him in us takes care of itself. Col 1.

 

[Truster]

ACtually Paul is more concerned that we are IN HIM and the Him in us takes care of itself. Col 1.

Yes I'm fully aware of that, but I was dealing with this verse as Paul wrote it. "Know ye not your own selves, how that Yah Shua is in you, except ye be reprobates?" Many claim to "be in Him" just because they go to church.

 

[Interplanner]

Yes I'm fully aware of that, but I was dealing with this verse as Paul wrote it. "Know ye not your own selves, how that Yah Shua is in you, except ye be reprobates?" Many claim to "be in Him" just because they go to church.

Was that collective plural like Col 1:27, meaning that 'Christ was out among the Gentiles'?

 

[Truster]

Was that collective plural like Col 1:27, meaning that 'Christ was out among the Gentiles'?

Everyone is born in Adam, (in his rebellion and that rebellion is carried along by the prince of the power of the air..etc) and remain in Adam until converted. Once converted we* are then in the Last Adam and He is in us. The knowledge of the foundational principle makes understanding the scriptures easier.

we* Those that are in Messiah and in whom Messiah dwells.

 

[Nick M]

How can a man who was gloriously saved through no desire of his own ever turn his back on reality? I saw my wretchedness and although I knew about salvation. I didn't think I could be saved. I didn't think that all my sins could be forgiven. I was proven wrong.

That isn't what you said, and you didn't answer the question. Lets review. This is what you have claimed.

July 17th 1999 at 10:30am. Didn't ask to be saved and didn't want to be saved, but I was and as soon as I was it was revealed to me what had happened.

I didn't ask nor want to be saved.

You did not want to be saved, but he did it anyway against your will (desire). Now you claim this, which is in direct contention with the first statement.

By grace are ye saved through trust, as long as man agrees to be saved.

So did you change your mind on your early statements here?


And by the way, your secondary statement is correct. For the record, I do not think you changed your mind. You are just adjusting your argument, moving your goal posts, to get people on board, then you can tell them they have no chance, pulling people from the faith.

 

[Truster]

That isn't what you said, and you didn't answer the question. Lets review. This is what you have claimed.





You did not want to be saved, but he did it anyway against your will (desire). Now you claim this, which is in direct contention with the first statement.



So did you change your mind on your early statements here?


And by the way, your secondary statement is correct. For the record, I do not think you changed your mind. You are just adjusting your argument, moving your goal posts, to get people on board, then you can tell them they have no chance, pulling people from the faith.

All I did was adjust a verse to suit the heresy of free will.

 

[Nick M]

All I did was adjust a verse....

I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Truster]

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Unlike you I have nothing to hide....Old Nick.

 

[popsthebuilder]

All I did was adjust a verse to suit the heresy of free will.

Woe....you did what?

Revelation: 22. 18. For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19. And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20. He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

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[meshak]

All I did was adjust a verse to suit the heresy of free will.

You think you can change the scripture.

amazing.