ECT The Neo-MADs and Romans 16:7: 'In Chrisr Before Me'

[john w]

I'll answer and then it will be your turn to defend what Justin Johnson wrote here:.

"Jesus taught his disciples to abide in him (John 15:4) as the true vine. If they did not abide, by keeping his commandments, they were cut off and cast forth."​

Either Justin Johnson doesn't know about the following words of the Lord Jesus spoken to a Jewess who lived under the law or else he just doesn't believe them:

"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die" (Jn.11:25-26).​

Perhaps Justin Johnson is not aware of the following words which the Lord Jesus spoke to the Jews who lived under the law or he just doesn't believe them:

"All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out" (Jn.6:37).​

And perhaps Justin Johnson doesn't know the meaning of the word "whosoever" in the following verse:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

Now that I have answered you let's see of you will actually address the words of the Lord Jesus which prove that Justin Johnson is wrong.

No, you demonic punk-you did not answer my question.


You made this charge, you dirty, self righteous, lying punk:

I would say that you should be ashamed of yourself but since you remain a natural man and are incapable of understanding the Lord Jesus' words which prove that those who lived under the law were saved by faith and faith alone I know that you are incapable of being ashamed that your teaching contradict His words.

You remain proud and unsaved.

Answer, you condescending shill-you made the charge, Bel.

Go ahead and "prove" that I am unsaved,or other "Neo MADSs" are unsaved, as you satanically assert, and that you are saved.


Go ahead. Lay it out for us. Name names.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

No, you demonic punk-you did not answer my question.

You put up the links and now you won't defend what is said on those links. Besides that, if you are saved you would know by the following words of the Lord Jesus spoken to the Jews who lived under the law that all of their spiritual blessings were a result of believing and believing alone:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life" (Jn.5:24).​

"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day" (Jn.6:40).​

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life" (Jn.6:47).​

"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die" (Jn.11:25-26).​

If you could understand spiritual things then you would know that the Jews who lived under the law received these blessings by faith and faith alone.

But you prove that you either cannot understand them or you just don't believe them because you continue to insist that the Jews who lived under the law could not be saved apart from works. So the following words of Paul are a perfect description of you:

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned" (1 Cor.2:14).​

All you can do is rant and rave but when it comes time to actually believe or understand the Scriptures you are lost!

 

[john w]

You put up the links and now you won't defend what is said on those links. Besides that, if you are saved you would know by the following words of the Lord Jesus spoken to the Jews who lived under the law that all of their spiritual blessings were a result of believing and believing alone:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life" (Jn.5:24).​

"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day" (Jn.6:40).​

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life" (Jn.6:47).​

"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die" (Jn.11:25-26).​

If you could understand spiritual things then you would know that the Jews who lived under the law received these blessings by faith and faith alone.

But you prove that you either cannot understand them or you just don't believe them because you continue to insist that the Jews who lived under the law could not be saved apart from works. So the following words of Paul are a perfect description of you:

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned" (1 Cor.2:14).​

All you can do is rant and rave but when it comes time to actually believe or understand the Scriptures you are lost!

No, you filthy, disgusting varment, admitted satanic,false accuser, and dung mouth whited wall. You made the accusation, you vile, divider of the brethren, now, back it up, you spammer, troll:

I would say that you should be ashamed of yourself but since you remain a natural man and are incapable of understanding the Lord Jesus' words which prove that those who lived under the law were saved by faith and faith alone I know that you are incapable of being ashamed that your teaching contradict His words.

You remain proud and unsaved.

Answer, you condescending shill-you made the charge, Bel.

Go ahead and "prove" that I am unsaved,or other "Neo MADSs" are unsaved, as you satanically assert, and that you are saved.


Go ahead. Lay it out for us. Name names. Prove it, you closet Catholic, like your "bro" Pate, you deceiving devil child, fruit inspector, and loser.


Isaiah 41 KJV

21 Produce your cause, saith the Lord; bring forth your strong reasons, saith the King of Jacob.


You won't, you pole cat, as that is why you've been banned, from www.christianforums.com, and scores of other sites, as your satanic dissention, and filth, makes most feel, as dirty as you, rat.


Get off this site, satanic accuser. We smell your sulfur.

 

[glorydaz]

Spoiler

In the first link Justin Johnson wrote:

"Jesus taught his disciples to abide in him (John 15:4) as the true vine. If they did not abide, by keeping his commandments, they were cut off and cast forth."​

Either Justin Johnson doesn't know about the following words of the Lord Jesus spoken to a Jewess who lived under the law or else he just doesn't believe them:

"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die" (Jn.11:25-26).​

Perhaps Justin Johnson is not aware of the following words which the Lord Jesus spoke to the Jews who lived under the law or he just doesn't believe them:

"All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out" (Jn.6:37).​

And perhaps Justin Johnson doesn't know the meaning of the word "whosoever" in the following verse:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

Now it is your time to defend the teaching of Justin Johnson.

Matt. 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

 

[musterion]

Matt. 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

But NOW the righteousness of God WITHOUT THE LAW is manifested

Tell me if I'm wrong but Paul seems to imply here that before faith in Christ according to his gospel (Rom 3:22), righteousness involved the Law.

If so, the question is, when did faith in Christ without any reference to Law become manifest the good news of salvation?

 

[glorydaz]

Tell me if I'm wrong but Paul seems to imply here that before faith in Christ according to his gospel (Rom 3:22), righteousness involved the Law.

If so, the question is, when did faith in Christ without any reference to Law become manifest the good news of salvation?

I think that the law and works are synonymous. There was always some kind of obedience that was required by God in addition to faith, which has to mean that mankind owed God a sin debt. I wonder if that isn't what Paul is referring to here.

Romans 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, 7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.​

Hebrews 10:1-3 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.​

Which is what makes Paul's gospel of grace so different. The preaching of the cross speaks of mankind's sin debt being paid once for all.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Matt. 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

At Romans 2:5-11 Paul explains that men are judge according to their "deeds" or "works" and says that those who "continue in well doing" (meaning not sinning) will receive eternal life. But for those who do not continue in well doing and obey unrighteousness then they will receive the wrath of God.

Then Paul continues and explains that the Jews will be judged by "the law" and the Gentiles by the law written in their hearts of which the conscience bears witness (Ro.2:12-15). So the Lord Jesus was telling them the same exact thing that Paul wrote about in Romans 2. If the Jews who lived under the law continued in well doing by keeping the commandments then they would inherit eternal life. But since none of the Jews kept the commandments perfectly they were "guilty of all" (Jas.2:10).

Are you under the illusion that being guilty of all can actually contribute to anyone's salvation in some way?

Sir Robert Anderson addresses this point, writing that "There are two alternative principles on which alone justification is now theoretically possible. The one is by man's deserving it; the other is through God's unmerited favour. Let a man, from the cradle to the grave, be everything he ought to be, and do everything he ought to do; let him, as our author puts it, love God with all his heart, and his neighbour as himself walking 'purely, humbly, and beneficently while on earth,' and such an one will 'inherit eternal life.' But all such pretensions betoken moral and spiritual ignorance and degradation. All men are sinners; and being sinners they are absolutely dependent upon grace" (Andersom, The Silence of God, [Kregel Publications, 1978], p.100).

I asked you to address the verses which the Lord Jesus spoke to the Jews who lived under the law where He said in no uncertain terms that it is "believing" and belief alone which results in the Jew's spiritual blessings and all you did was to ignore those verses and quote a verse which you think somehow proves that what the Lord said was in error. Perhaps this time you will actually address His following words which He spoke to the Jews who lived under the law:

"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die" (Jn.11:25-26).​

"All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out" (Jn.6:37).​

Perhaps you will tell us why we shouldn't believe the Lord Jesus when He said "whosoever believes" has eternal life and will not perish:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

 

[glorydaz]

At Romans 2:5-11 Paul explains that men are judge according to their "deeds" or "works" and says that those who "continue in well doing" (meaning not sinning) then they will receive eternal life. But for those who do not continue in well doing and obey unrighteousness then they will receive the wrath of God.

Paul is addressing those under the law...not those saved by grace. Those saved by grace will not receive the wrath of God...."NO CONDEMNATION".

Then Paul continues and explains that the Jews will be judged by "the law" and the Gentiles by the law written in their hearts of which the conscience bears witness (Ro.2:12-15). So the Lord Jesus was telling them the same exact thing that Paul wrote about in Romans 2. If the Jews who lived under the law continued in well doing by keeping the commandments then they would inherit eternal life. But since none of the Jews kept the commandments perfectly they were "guilty of all" (Jas.2:10).

Are you under the illusion that being guilty of all can actually contribute to anyone's salvation in some way?

That's a stupid thing to ask, Jerry. And, Romans 2 is still addressing those under the law...not those saved by grace. It's called the Roman Road for a reason.

I asked you to address the verses which the Lord Jesus spoke to the Jews who lived under the law where He said in no uncertain terms that it is "believing" and belief alone which results in the Jew's spiritual blessings andall you did was to ignore those verses and quote a verse which you think somehow proves that what the Lord said was in error. Perhaps this time you will actually address His following words which He spoke to the Jews who lived under the law:

Spoiler

"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die" (Jn.11:25-26).​

"All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out" (Jn.6:37).​

Perhaps you will tell us why we shouldn't believe the Lord Jesus when He said "whosoever believes" has eternal life and will not perish:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

Because, it actually does matter who Jesus was addressing. Jesus was sent to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel. He was addressing the Jews, the chosen peculiar people, and to the Jews believing in their Messiah INCLUDED the LAW of commandments they were given by God. AS YOU KEEP STATING...."the Jews who lived under the law". You can't separate the Jews from the law and their covenant with God. Why are you trying so desperately to do so, all while admitting they lived under the law?

"Whosoever" in the verses you quote is strictly speaking of the Jews "who lived under the law". Clearly, it is NOT whosoever believeth in the entire gentile world...to whom Christ was NOT SENT.

 

[musterion]

It's almost like Jerry's back-reading Paul into John, which Acts 2 dispies are expert at doing (or Acts 7, or whatever he is).

 

[Jerry Shugart]

"Whosoever" in the verses you quote is strictly speaking of the Jews "who lived under the law". Clearly, it is NOT whosoever believeth in the entire gentile world...to whom Christ was NOT SENT.

So you do not deny that the following words had an application to the Jews who lived under the law:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

According to the words of the Lord Jesus here the Jew who lived under the law and believed had eternal life and will not perish. Not a word about "works."

And the Lord Jesus said the following to the Jews who lived under the law:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life" (Jn.5:24).​

"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day" (Jn.6:40).​

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life" (Jn.6:47).​

"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die" (Jn.11:25-26).​

These words of the Lord were addressed to the Jews who lived under the law and He said that those who "believe" receive these blessings. That is why he said the following to the Jews who lived under the law:

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).​

The Jews who lived under the law received all of their spiritual blessings as a result of their "faith" and nothing else. The Lord Jesus said the following to the woman who annointed His feet with ointment:

"Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace" (Lk.7:47-50).​

glorydaz, do you now understand that the Lord Jesus made it plain to the Jews who lived under their law that all of their spiritual blessings were received by "faith" and faith alone?

 

[WizardofOz]

This is something that needs to be addressed. TOL has as of late turned into a mud pit where the participants in the thread take turns flipping mud on each other. In other words they dish out every kind of insult they could find and yet try to fly under the radar and not get banned. The name calling, calling member liars, the innuendos about family and attacks on moral character make the site unappealing. Christians, especially, should not be resorting to these tactics in debate. In my tours around the internet I have found that healthy websites discourage the name calling and personal attacks. Personal attacks disrupt the flow of dialog.

Another thing that makes the site unappealing to people that visit are threads that call people out by name in the title and talk about the member. It raises concerns to a new member. 'I am going to be called out my name'. he will ask himself. It tends to quash dialog. So any callouts as of today, no matter who they are will be closed and deleted.

Timeloop--Something AMR shared which is worthwhile and a good guide to forum behavior in general---> What does it take to survive on TOL

Versus

No, you pathetic con artist, as you continue your deceptive, satanic debating ploy,

spoiled brat, having a temper tantrum.

and every bible, on which you get your grubby hands

No, and you know what TOL members are talking about, snake-For this satanic, deceitful debating ploy

Slower:No, you pathetic con artist, as you continue your deceptive, satanic debating ploy,

You pathetic punk


Go ahead, pole cat. Do it.

And you can stick your dung, up where the sun does not shine, you pierce of satanic trash, doing your father, lord satan's, dirty work, you disgusting liar.

You flaming hypocrite, two faced actress, whited wall, as you spam the above word-for-word spam, which you post on every thread

No, you pathetic liar

Viper. False accuser.

Answer, you condescending shill:

Go ahead and "prove" that I am unsaved,or other "Neo MADSs" are unsaved, as you satanically assert, and that you are saved.

No, you demonic punk-you did not answer my question.

You made this charge, you dirty, self righteous, lying punk:

Answer, you condescending shill-you made the charge, Bel.

No, you filthy, disgusting varment, admitted satanic,false accuser, and dung mouth whited wall. You made the accusation, you vile, divider of the brethren, now, back it up, you spammer, troll:

Answer, you condescending shill-you made the charge, Bel.

Go ahead and "prove" that I am unsaved,or other "Neo MADSs" are unsaved, as you satanically assert, and that you are saved.

Go ahead. Lay it out for us. Name names. Prove it, you closet Catholic, like your "bro" Pate, you deceiving devil child, fruit inspector, and loser.


You won't, you pole cat, as that is why you've been banned, from www.christianforums.com, and scores of other sites, as your satanic dissention, and filth, makes most feel, as dirty as you, rat.

Get off this site, satanic accuser. We smell your sulfur.

Yeah. And that's just 8 posts or so in only a 4 page thread.

 

[glorydaz]

It's almost like Jerry's back-reading Paul into John, which Acts 2 dispies are expert at doing (or Acts 7, or whatever he is).

That's exactly what he's doing. Gotta make it all fit ....squish it altogether and one is left to ask, "Why was Paul sent at all?" Had Jerry been there, he could have explained it to the Jews and see if they believed him. Why were John, Peter, and James not filled in on this understanding of saved by faith alone?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Why were John, Peter, and James not filled in on this understanding of saved by faith alone?

They were because they heard the following words of the Lord Jesus spoken to the Jews who lived under the law.

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life" (Jn.5:24).​

"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day" (Jn.6:40).​

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life" (Jn.6:47).​

"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die" (Jn.11:25-26).​

These words of the Lord were addressed to the Jews who lived under the law and He said that those who "believe" receive these blessings. That is why he said the following to the Jews who lived under the law:

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).​

The Jews who lived under the law received all of their spiritual blessings as a result of their "faith" and nothing else. The Lord Jesus said the following to the woman who annointed His feet with ointment:

"Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace" (Lk.7:47-50).​

Are you going to run and hide and pretend that the Lord Jesus never spoke those words? If you cannot see that the Lord Jesus was telling the Jews who lived under the law that they were saved by "faith" and faith alone then you either cannot understand His plain words or you just flat out refuse to believe them.

 

[glorydaz]

Are you going to run and hide and pretend that the Lord Jesus never spoke those words? If you cannot see that the Lord Jesus was telling the Jews who lived under the law that they were saved by "faith" and faith alone then you either cannot understand His plain words or you just flat out refuse to believe them.

Are you going to run and hide and pretend Jesus was not referring to the Kingdom which was to come when Israel accepted Him as their Messiah? It didn't come because of Israel's unbelief. They stumbled.

In order to rightly understand what Jesus was saying and who He was speaking to, you'll have to consider the fact that Israel was cast off. Once again, you can't separate the Jew from the Law, and it wasn't until Paul preached the Gospel of Grace that there was no longer Jew nor Gentile.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Are you going to run and hide and pretend Jesus was not referring to the Kingdom which was to come when Israel accepted Him as their Messiah? It didn't come because of Israel's unbelief. They stumbled.

Can you not understand the difference between the "nation" of Israel and "individual" Jews?

The subject under discussion is the salvation of "individual" Jew and not the nation of Israel as a whole. Those in the Neo-MAD camp teach that "individual" Jews could not be saved apart from works. But that teaching is foolish because the Lord Jesus told the Jews who lived under the law that the "individual" Jew received his spiritual blessings by "believing" and believing alone. For instance, the following words of the Lord Jesus were spoken directly to the Jews who lived under the law:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life" (Jn.6:47).​

Can you understand His words there when He declared in no uncertain terms that those who "believe" have eternal life? Can you see that the Savior Hiimself said not one word about any works that the individual Jew had to do to receive eternal life?

Can you answer those simple questions for me?

That verse is not the only occasion when He told the Jews that they receive everlasting life by believe because He said it again here:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life" (Jn.5:24).​

Can you understand that He said nothing about anyone having to do "works" of any kind to receive everlasting life? And in the following verse the Lord Jesus is once again speaking to the Jews who lived inder the lawand once again He says nothing about any "works" which was required for them to receive everlasting life:

"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day" (Jn.6:40).​

Can you understand that the only thing which the Lord Jesus said was required to have eternal life is faith and only faith. And in the following passages He spoke words to a Jewess who lived under the law which speaks of eternal security which is a result of believing and only believing?:

"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die" (Jn.11:25-26).​

If you can understand these words of the Lord Jesus that I quoted then you should know that the Jews who lived under the law were saved by faith and faith alone.

Those who call themselves "MAD" on this forum are wrong when they teach that the "individual" Jews who lived under the law could not be saved apart from works.

 

[glorydaz]

Can you not understand the difference between the "nation" of Israel and "individual" Jews?

The subject under discussion is the salvation of "individual" Jew and not the nation of Israel as a whole. Those in the Neo-MAD camp teach that "individual" Jews could not be saved apart from works. But that teaching is foolish because the Lord Jesus told the Jews who lived under the law that the "individual" Jew received his spiritual blessings by "believing" and believing alone. For instance, the following words of the Lord Jesus were spoken directly to the Jews who lived under the law:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life" (Jn.6:47).​

Can you understand His words there when He declared in no uncertain terms that those who "believe" have eternal life? Can you see that the Savior Hiimself said not one word about any works that the individual Jew had to do to receive eternal life?

Can you answer those simple questions for me?

That verse is not the only occasion when He told the Jews that they receive everlasting life by believe because He said it again here:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life" (Jn.5:24).​

Can you understand that He said nothing about anyone having to do "works" of any kind to receive everlasting life? And in the following verse the Lord Jesus is once again speaking to the Jews who lived inder the lawand once again He says nothing about any "works" which was required for them to receive everlasting life:

"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day" (Jn.6:40).​

Can you understand that the only thing which the Lord Jesus said was required to have eternal life is faith and only faith. And in the following passages He spoke words to a Jewess who lived under the law which speaks of eternal security which is a result of believing and only believing?:

"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die" (Jn.11:25-26).​

If you can understand these words of the Lord Jesus that I quoted then you should know that the Jews who lived under the law were saved by faith and faith alone.

Those who call themselves "MAD" on this forum are wrong when they teach that the "individual" Jews who lived under the law could not be saved apart from works.

You continue to admit that Jesus was speaking to the Jews under the law. Tell me, Jerry, what was the covenant they were under. Can you?

It was the cutting away of the flesh (circumcision). That was the work required of them.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You continue to admit that Jesus was speaking to the Jews under the law. Tell me, Jerry, what was the covenant they were under. Can you?

It was the cutting away of the flesh (circumcision). That was the work required of them.

I can see that you cannot even understand the words which I quoted of the Lord Jesus which He spoke to the Jews who lived under the law. That is why you continue to avoid saying even one thing about them. So I challenge you to actually discuss the meaning of the Lord Jesus' following words so we can see if you have even a basic understanding of His words which He spoke to the Jews:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life" (Jn.6:47).​

In this verse the Greek word translated "believeth" and the Greek word translated "hath" are both in the "present" tense.

In The Blue Letter Bible we read the following meaning of the present tense:

"The present tense represents a simple statement of fact or reality viewed as occurring in actual time. In most cases this corresponds directly with the English present tense."​

Therefore, at John 6:47 the Lord Jesus was telling the Jews who lived under the law that those who were believing at the time He spoke those words had already received everlasting life. That is what is meant as something being "viewed as occuring in actual time."

So once any Jew who lived under the law believed on the Lord Jesus he received eternal life. It's that simple.

So if you can understand the Lord Jesus' words which He spoke to the Jews who lived under the law at John 6:47 and you believe them then you should know that the Jews who lived under the law were saved by believing and believing alone.

Now if you think that anything which I said is in error then tell me what it is that I said that is wrong. If you refuse to deal with this verse that I quoted then I can only conclude that you cannot even understand His words and so since you cannot understand His words then you are incapable of believing what He said. And let me remind you that it is only those who "believe God" who are justified in His sight:

"For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness" (Ro.4:3).​

If you are unable to believe the simple words of the Lord Jesus at John 6:47 then I see no evidence that you can understand spiritual things.

 

[john w]

Versus



Yeah. And that's just 8 posts or so in only a 4 page thread.

You're quite irrelevant on TOL, clown; please take your seat, until I decide to call on you, spineless cry baby.


Can you dig it, wiz? Good.

 

[oatmeal]

In the following verse Paul speaks about other Jews who were "in Christ" before he was:

"Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me" (Ro.16:7).​

In the following passage Paul says the following:

"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new" (2 Cor.5:17).​

Since Paul said that if "anyone" is "in Christ" he is a new creature then he would remain consistent in the way he used the term "in Christ" when he wrote about people being "in Christ." If he did use the term "in Christ" one way when speaking of people being "in Christ" and then turn around and use it in an entirely different sense then that would lead to confusion, and the LORD is not the author of confusion.

It is not difficult to understand what it means to be in Christ when Paul speaks of people being "in Christ" when we look at the following words of Paul:

"So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another" (Ro.12:5).​

So we can understand that when Paul speaks of other Jews being "in Christ" before he was we can understand that he was saying that others were in the Body of Christ before he was. Besides that, at Romans 5:11 Paul speaks of a believing "remnant" of Jews and in the following passage Paul speaks of two groups being reconciled unto God in "one Body":

"But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby" (Eph.2:13-16).​

Of course the two groups in this passage are the believing remnant of Romans 11:5 and the believing Gentiles. Who else could those two groups be?

Of course the Neo-MADs on this forum refuse to tell us the identity of the two groups. These same Neo-MADs also say that the believing Jews who lived under the law could not be saved apart from works despite what we read in the following verse:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

The Neo-MADs evidently don't know the meaning of the word "whosoever" in this verse or they don't want to know its meaning because they just flat out refuse to believe those words.

And then they have the audacity to declare that they believe the Bible. They are the biggest hypocrites on this forum and the next time one of them attacks you like they attack everyone who doesn't agree with them then just quote John 3:16 and ask them if they know the meaning of the word "whosoever."

Does God ever use any words at all that have different meanings?

When Jesus Christ said, "I am the bread of life" Did he mean he is literally a loaf of bread or is there another meaning to the word "bread" that does not specifically and literally refer to a piece of physical bread?

When Jesus Christ, Said, "this is my body" did he literally mean this piece of baked flour, water and leaven is my real physical body and the one that was holding the piece of bread was not his real physical body?

When God told Moses that He made Moses to be a god to Pharaoh, Exodus 7:1 Did Moses become the one that created the heaven and the earth?

Can a person be in the body of Christ, yet not fully obey God's word in all things.

We can be on or in a sports team but not function appropriately, we can even be on the field, yet the coach could say to someone distracted by other matters, "get your head in the game"

All believers in this age of grace are members in the particular in this body of Christ, in Christ, yet not all have their "head in the game",their head and heart actually doing what God called them to do

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Does God ever use any words at all that have different meanings?

So what is your point concerning the following words of the Lord Jesus spoken to the Jews who lived under the law?:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life" (Jn.6:47).​

All believers in this age of grace are members in the particular in this body of Christ, in Christ, yet not all have their "head in the game",their head and heart actually doing what God called them to do

How can a person really believe what the Lord Jesus said at John 6:47 if the DON'T have their head in the game?

How can anyone understand the following simple words if the don't have their heads in the game?:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life"
(Jn.3:16).​

When Paul preached he "reasoned out of the Scriptures" (Acts 17:2) so tell me how anyone can understand what the Scriptures say unless they use their ability to reason?