The LORD is not willing that any should perish

beloved57

Well-known member
The first stage in getting help from God is to beg for help. It seems inconsistent to say those who turn to God and beg for help were turned to God by God before they even wanted help. God does not make men turn to Him, but He does command all men to repent and turn to Jesus.

Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
You still dont get it. God gives repentance to whomever He wills !
 

marke

Well-known member
Your problem is you dont believe in the True Sovereign God whose will trumps the will of man and devils !
I believe in God who is able to allow the devil to do evil without giving him the ability to thwart God's purposes, and the God who allows men to choose who they will serve, whether the devil or God.

  1. Deuteronomy 30:19
    I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

  2. Joshua 24:15
    And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
I believe in God who is able to allow the devil to do evil without giving him the ability to thwart God's purposes, and the God who allows men to choose who they will serve, whether the devil or God.

  1. Deuteronomy 30:19
    I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

  2. Joshua 24:15
    And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.
You dont appear to believe in the Sovereign God who doeth His will in heaven and earth amongst men Dan 4:35

35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
 

Lon

Well-known member
Them whom God desires and wills to come to repentance, its no doubt He will give them that repentance since its in His sole power to do so 2 Tim 2:25

25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
RIght, you and I believe God knows, thus foreordains. So do Arminians (most of the church). The problem in the wheat and tares analogy is that they MUST grow together until harvest because one cannot tell which is which until that time.
 

marke

Well-known member
You dont appear to believe in the Sovereign God who doeth His will in heaven and earth amongst men Dan 4:35

35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
God does His will which is why He will not condemn any sinners to hell unless that sinner chooses to love his sin more than loving God.

John 12:43
For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
RIght, you and I believe God knows, thus foreordains. So do Arminians (most of the church). The problem in the wheat and tares analogy is that they MUST grow together until harvest because one cannot tell which is which until that time.
The tares are not relevant sir !
 

beloved57

Well-known member
God does His will which is why He will not condemn any sinners to hell unless that sinner chooses to love his sin more than loving God.

John 12:43
For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.
You still appear to show no understanding of Gods Sovereign Will, it trumps all friend !
 

beloved57

Well-known member
To those in error false doctrine trumps truth.
You still dont get it, Gods will trumps all. If God wills something its done ! Dan 4:35

35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
 

Idolater

Well-known member
You still dont get it, Gods will trumps all. If God wills something its done ! Dan 4:35

35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
Wouldn't you say then, that it was God's will that there be just One undivided Church for near 1000 years? Because that is what actually happened.
 

marke

Well-known member
You still dont get it, Gods will trumps all. If God wills something its done ! Dan 4:35

35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
And yet God loved the world and sends His preachers into all the world to preach the Gospel to every creature so that whosoever will may come to Jesus for forgiveness and salvation.
 

Idolater

Well-known member
If God wills that men have the ability to reject Him, then what?
Then, that's the world today. Think about it---what's the alternative? That God wills that men do not have the ability to reject Him, right? And all the evidence is inconsistent with that theory, so we know that theory is flatly, categorically, and in binary, false. So therefore its alternative is true and must be incontrovertibly true: God wills that men have the ability to reject Him.

But this is something that is trivial to Calvinism---of course He wills that we all have the ability to reject Him, because Calvinism believes that more than that, He also wills that we all will reject Him, unless and only unless He intervenes supernaturally and regenerates our hearts directly Himself.

So Calvinism also describes the world today, Calvinism believes that all those who believe the Gospel do so, due to the individual divinie intervention that changed their heart from stone to flesh, and because the man with a heart of flesh wants to believe the Gospel, and the man with the heart of flesh is free to follow his bliss and really believe the Gospel, therefore he believes the Gospel, and all the glory is clearly due to God alone.

This is the idea of Calvinism. I speak as a former deeply convinced Calvinist. My aim was as the other convinced Calvinists participating on TOL, the glory of God, fidelity to the Scripture, basically the Five Solas.
 

JudgeRightly

裁判官が正しく判断する
Staff member
Administrator
Super Moderator
Gold Subscriber

If it was God's will that men should have the ability to love or hate Him, then what?

Never heard of that.

Just answer the question.

Gods will is that some not perish and repent!

False.

God is not willing that any should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance.

The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. - 2 Peter 3:9 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Peter3:9&version=NKJV

Or, if we move the negative around, God is willing that none should perish, but that all should come to repentance. And yet, some, in fact, most, still perish.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
If it was God's will that men should have the ability to love or hate Him, then what?



Just answer the question.



False.

God is not willing that any should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance.

The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. - 2 Peter 3:9 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Peter3:9&version=NKJV

Or, if we move the negative around, God is willing that none should perish, but that all should come to repentance. And yet, some, in fact, most, still perish.
Im not wasting my time with a unlearned question like that. Gods will is Sovereign and successful ! Its not Gods will that any should perish, and all come to repentance, and so shall it be, regarding His Elect ! All others are hell bound according to the same will of God !
 

marke

Well-known member
Im not wasting my time with a unlearned question like that. Gods will is Sovereign and successful ! Its not Gods will that any should perish, and all come to repentance, and so shall it be, regarding His Elect ! All others are hell bound according to the same will of God !
Ignorance of the true nature of God and a right understanding of the Bible has led some to mistakenly believe they are special because they are elect (they cannot prove they are elect) and that most sinners in the world were hated by God before He made them. These misinterpreted of the Bible believe that God derives great pleasure in denying the lost any hope of escape from hell because He wants to fry them forever for His own glory and pleasure.
 

Idolater

Well-known member
Ignorance of the true nature of God and a right understanding of the Bible has led some to mistakenly believe they are special because they are elect (they cannot prove they are elect) and that most sinners in the world were hated by God before He made them. These misinterpreted of the Bible believe that God derives great pleasure in denying the lost any hope of escape from hell because He wants to fry them forever for His own glory and pleasure.
The word 'elect' is a dog whistle to Calvinism. But it's always just a synonym for Church. If instead of reading so much into the word elect when it appears in Scripture, Calvinism just reads it as a synonym for Church, then Calvinists would all just be Catholics and Calvinism would be Catholicism.
 
Top