bucksplasher
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Now that would be symbolic. tWINs
The Late Great Urantia Revelation
- Thread starter Caino
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Now that would be symbolic. tWINs
"The pictures of Jesus have been most unfortunate. These paintings of the Christ have exerted a deleterious influence on youth....."
THE SOJOURN AT AMATHUS
141:3.1 The Master and his apostles remained near Amathus for almost three weeks. The apostles continued to preach twice daily to the multitude, and Jesus preached each Sabbath afternoon. It became impossible to continue the Wednesday playtime; so Andrew arranged that two apostles should rest each day of the six days in the week, while all were on duty during the Sabbath services.
141:3.2 Peter, James, and John did most of the public preaching. Philip, Nathaniel, Thomas, and Simon did much of the personal work and conducted classes for special groups of inquirers; the twins continued their general police supervision, while Andrew, Matthew, and Judas developed into a general managerial committee of three, although each of these three also did considerable religious work.
141:3.3 Andrew was much occupied with the task of adjusting the constantly recurring misunderstandings and disagreements between the disciples of John and the newer disciples of Jesus. Serious situations would arise every few days, but Andrew, with the assistance of his apostolic associates, managed to induce the contending parties to come to some sort of agreement, at least temporarily. Jesus refused to participate in any of these conferences; neither would he give any advice about the proper adjustment of these difficulties. He never once offered a suggestion as to how the apostles should solve these perplexing problems. When Andrew came to Jesus with these questions, he would always say: “It is not wise for the host to participate in the family troubles of his guests; a wise parent never takes sides in the petty quarrels of his own children.”
141:3.4 The Master displayed great wisdom and manifested perfect fairness in all of his dealings with his apostles and with all of his disciples. Jesus was truly a master of men; he exercised great influence over his fellow men because of the combined charm and force of his personality. There was a subtle commanding influence in his rugged, nomadic, and homeless life. There was intellectual attractiveness and spiritual drawing power in his authoritative manner of teaching, in his lucid logic, his strength of reasoning, his sagacious insight, his alertness of mind, his matchless poise, and his sublime tolerance. He was simple, manly, honest, and fearless. With all of this physical and intellectual influence manifest in the Master’s presence, there were also all those spiritual charms of being which have become associated with his personality— patience, tenderness, meekness, gentleness, and humility.
141:3.5 Jesus of Nazareth was indeed a strong and forceful personality; he was an intellectual power and a spiritual stronghold. His personality not only appealed to the spiritually minded women among his followers, but also to the educated and intellectual Nicodemus and to the hardy Roman soldier, the captain stationed on guard at the cross, who, when he had finished watching the Master die, said, “Truly, this was a Son of God.” And red-blooded, rugged Galilean fishermen called him Master.
141:3.6 The pictures of Jesus have been most unfortunate. These paintings of the Christ have exerted a deleterious influence on youth; the temple merchants would hardly have fled before Jesus if he had been such a man as your artists usually have depicted. His was a dignified manhood; he was good, but natural. Jesus did not pose as a mild, sweet, gentle, and kindly mystic. His teaching was thrillingly dynamic. He not only meant well, but he went about actually doing good.
141:3.7 The Master never said, Come to me all you who are indolent and all who are dreamers.” But he did many times say, “Come to me all you who labor, and I will give you rest—spiritual strength.” The Master’s yoke is, indeed, easy, but even so, he never imposes it; every individual must take this yoke of his own free will.
141:3.8 Jesus portrayed conquest by sacrifice, the sacrifice of pride and selfishness. By showing mercy, he meant to portray spiritual deliverance from all grudges, grievances, anger, and the lust for selfish power and revenge. And when he said, “Resist not evil,” he later explained that he did not mean to condone sin or to counsel fraternity with iniquity. He intended the more to teach forgiveness, to “resist not evil treatment of one’s personality, evil injury to one’s feelings of personal dignity.”
141:3.2 Peter, James, and John did most of the public preaching. Philip, Nathaniel, Thomas, and Simon did much of the personal work and conducted classes for special groups of inquirers; the twins continued their general police supervision, while Andrew, Matthew, and Judas developed into a general managerial committee of three, although each of these three also did considerable religious work.
141:3.3 Andrew was much occupied with the task of adjusting the constantly recurring misunderstandings and disagreements between the disciples of John and the newer disciples of Jesus. Serious situations would arise every few days, but Andrew, with the assistance of his apostolic associates, managed to induce the contending parties to come to some sort of agreement, at least temporarily. Jesus refused to participate in any of these conferences; neither would he give any advice about the proper adjustment of these difficulties. He never once offered a suggestion as to how the apostles should solve these perplexing problems. When Andrew came to Jesus with these questions, he would always say: “It is not wise for the host to participate in the family troubles of his guests; a wise parent never takes sides in the petty quarrels of his own children.”
141:3.4 The Master displayed great wisdom and manifested perfect fairness in all of his dealings with his apostles and with all of his disciples. Jesus was truly a master of men; he exercised great influence over his fellow men because of the combined charm and force of his personality. There was a subtle commanding influence in his rugged, nomadic, and homeless life. There was intellectual attractiveness and spiritual drawing power in his authoritative manner of teaching, in his lucid logic, his strength of reasoning, his sagacious insight, his alertness of mind, his matchless poise, and his sublime tolerance. He was simple, manly, honest, and fearless. With all of this physical and intellectual influence manifest in the Master’s presence, there were also all those spiritual charms of being which have become associated with his personality— patience, tenderness, meekness, gentleness, and humility.
141:3.5 Jesus of Nazareth was indeed a strong and forceful personality; he was an intellectual power and a spiritual stronghold. His personality not only appealed to the spiritually minded women among his followers, but also to the educated and intellectual Nicodemus and to the hardy Roman soldier, the captain stationed on guard at the cross, who, when he had finished watching the Master die, said, “Truly, this was a Son of God.” And red-blooded, rugged Galilean fishermen called him Master.
141:3.6 The pictures of Jesus have been most unfortunate. These paintings of the Christ have exerted a deleterious influence on youth; the temple merchants would hardly have fled before Jesus if he had been such a man as your artists usually have depicted. His was a dignified manhood; he was good, but natural. Jesus did not pose as a mild, sweet, gentle, and kindly mystic. His teaching was thrillingly dynamic. He not only meant well, but he went about actually doing good.
141:3.7 The Master never said, Come to me all you who are indolent and all who are dreamers.” But he did many times say, “Come to me all you who labor, and I will give you rest—spiritual strength.” The Master’s yoke is, indeed, easy, but even so, he never imposes it; every individual must take this yoke of his own free will.
141:3.8 Jesus portrayed conquest by sacrifice, the sacrifice of pride and selfishness. By showing mercy, he meant to portray spiritual deliverance from all grudges, grievances, anger, and the lust for selfish power and revenge. And when he said, “Resist not evil,” he later explained that he did not mean to condone sin or to counsel fraternity with iniquity. He intended the more to teach forgiveness, to “resist not evil treatment of one’s personality, evil injury to one’s feelings of personal dignity.”
Caino
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
important points
important points
These points are important, especially the yellow highlights. The true spiritual theme of the Jesusonian gospel ( as the UB terms it) is: The Fatherhood of God and brotherhood of man (that relational sonship and eternal progression of the soul by living according to the principles of the kingdom of heaven{spiritual laws/precepts} ). Man is already by his essential and potential existence, the 'offspring' of God, and has true immortality-potential. Living the true ideals and principles of Spirit, as Jesus lived them....is the Way.
Theologies and various soteriologies formulated about Jesus later are religious concepts and theories and do not necessarily emphasize living the actual religion of Jesus, which is what he came to show us. - hence the vicarious atonement models, and other 'allegories' built around Jesus death, burial, resurrection and ascension....are just that, correlating to the soul's experience of salvation(redemption) per Paul's gospel via mystical experience.
pj
important points
These points are important, especially the yellow highlights. The true spiritual theme of the Jesusonian gospel ( as the UB terms it) is: The Fatherhood of God and brotherhood of man (that relational sonship and eternal progression of the soul by living according to the principles of the kingdom of heaven{spiritual laws/precepts} ). Man is already by his essential and potential existence, the 'offspring' of God, and has true immortality-potential. Living the true ideals and principles of Spirit, as Jesus lived them....is the Way.
Theologies and various soteriologies formulated about Jesus later are religious concepts and theories and do not necessarily emphasize living the actual religion of Jesus, which is what he came to show us. - hence the vicarious atonement models, and other 'allegories' built around Jesus death, burial, resurrection and ascension....are just that, correlating to the soul's experience of salvation(redemption) per Paul's gospel via mystical experience.
pj
Well indeed. So much for literal transubstantiation. Might other aspects of Catholicism also be fatuous bollocks, we wonder...To suit the needs of those who are on a 'gluten-free' diet- while faith in the 'transubstantiation' is apparently all-sufficient, one must still take care of their physical bodies in this dimension.
I'd prefer organic multi-grain wafers
pj
The RCC doesn't accommodate preferences, I understand.
Stuart
Regarding the adulteress, who said that he who is without sin should cast the first stone? The one who is supposedly without sin. Did he cast any stones? No. So much for lucidity of logic and strength of reasoning.
Stuart
Stuart,
The discovery of that inconsistent logic would be an exciting observation for your pessimistic hobby, only, that’s not what really happened. That exchange between Jesus, the women taken in adultery and her accusers was an attempt to entrap Jesus. No one knows what Jesus wrote in the dirt.
If the UB were simply a fraud then the authors were clever enough not to repeat the error you draw attention to.
The Woman Taken in Adultery
(1792.5) 162:3.1 "It was during this visit to Jerusalem that Jesus dealt with a certain woman of evil repute who was brought into his presence by her accusers and his enemies. The distorted record you have of this episode would suggest that this woman had been brought before Jesus by the scribes and Pharisees, and that Jesus so dealt with them as to indicate that these religious leaders of the Jews might themselves have been guilty of immorality. Jesus well knew that, while these scribes and Pharisees were spiritually blind and intellectually prejudiced by their loyalty to tradition, they were to be numbered among the most thoroughly moral men of that day and generation.
(1793.1) 162:3.2 What really happened was this: Early the third morning of the feast, as Jesus approached the temple, he was met by a group of the hired agents of the Sanhedrin who were dragging a woman along with them. As they came near, the spokesman said: “Master, this woman was taken in adultery — in the very act. Now, the law of Moses commands that we should stone such a woman. What do you say should be done with her?”
(1793.2) 162:3.3 It was the plan of Jesus’ enemies, if he upheld the law of Moses requiring that the self-confessed transgressor be stoned, to involve him in difficulty with the Roman rulers, who had denied the Jews the right to inflict the death penalty without the approval of a Roman tribunal. If he forbade stoning the woman, they would accuse him before the Sanhedrin of setting himself up above Moses and the Jewish law. If he remained silent, they would accuse him of cowardice. But the Master so managed the situation that the whole plot fell to pieces of its own sordid weight.
(1793.3) 162:3.4 This woman, once comely, was the wife of an inferior citizen of Nazareth, a man who had been a troublemaker for Jesus throughout his youthful days. The man, having married this woman, did most shamefully force her to earn their living by making commerce of her body. He had come up to the feast at Jerusalem that his wife might thus prostitute her physical charms for financial gain. He had entered into a bargain with the hirelings of the Jewish rulers thus to betray his own wife in her commercialized vice. And so they came with the woman and her companion in transgression for the purpose of ensnaring Jesus into making some statement which could be used against him in case of his arrest.
(1793.4) 162:3.5 Jesus, looking over the crowd, saw her husband standing behind the others. He knew what sort of man he was and perceived that he was a party to the despicable transaction. Jesus first walked around to near where this degenerate husband stood and wrote upon the sand a few words which caused him to depart in haste. Then he came back before the woman and wrote again upon the ground for the benefit of her would-be accusers; and when they read his words, they, too, went away, one by one. And when the Master had written in the sand the third time, the woman’s companion in evil took his departure, so that, when the Master raised himself up from this writing, he beheld the woman standing alone before him. Jesus said: “Woman, where are your accusers? did no man remain to stone you?” And the woman, lifting up her eyes, answered, “No man, Lord.” And then said Jesus: “I know about you; neither do I condemn you. Go your way in peace.” And this woman, Hildana, forsook her wicked husband and joined herself to the disciples of the kingdom."
Caino
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Caino
...John asked Jesus, “Master, what is the kingdom of heaven?” And Jesus answered: “The kingdom of heaven consists in these three essentials: first, recognition of the fact of the sovereignty of God; second, belief in the truth of sonship with God; and third, faith in the effectiveness of the supreme human desire to do the will of God — to be like God. And this is the good news of the gospel: that by faith every mortal may have all these essentials of salvation.
Caino
So you are claiming that your mythology of the possibly fictional character Jesus is right, and the same mythology written by the writer of the gospel of John is wrong.
Fair enough, it's all fictional anyway.
Stuart
.
Caino
“That which is old and also true must abide. Likewise, that which is new but false must be rejected. But that which is new and also true, have the faith and courage to accept. Remember it is written: `Forsake not an old friend, for the new is not comparable to him. As new wine, so is a new friend; if it becomes old, you shall drink it with gladness.'”
BACK IN CAPERNAUM
147:7.1 It was around noon on Monday, May 3, when Jesus and the twelve came to Bethsaida by boat from Tarichea. They traveled by boat in order to escape those who journeyed with them. But by the next day the others, including the official spies from Jerusalem, had again found Jesus.
147:7.2 On Tuesday evening Jesus was conducting one of his customary classes of questions and answers when the leader of the six spies said to him: “I was today talking with one of John’s disciples who is here attending upon your teaching, and we were at a loss to understand why you never command your disciples to fast and pray as we Pharisees fast and as John bade his followers.” And Jesus, referring to a statement by John, answered this questioner: “Do the sons of the bridechamber fast while the bridegroom is with them? As long as the bridegroom remains with them, they can hardly fast. But the time is coming when the bridegroom shall be taken away, and during those times the children of the bridechamber undoubtedly will fast and pray. To pray is natural for the children of light, but fasting is not a part of the gospel of the kingdom of heaven. Be reminded that a wise tailor does not sew a piece of new and unshrunk cloth upon an old garment, lest, when it is wet, it shrink and produce a worse rent. Neither do men put new wine into old wine skins, lest the new wine burst the skins so that both the wine and the skins perish. The wise man puts the new wine into fresh wine skins. Therefore do my disciples show wisdom in that they do not bring too much of the old order over into the new teaching of the gospel of the kingdom. You who have lost your teacher may be justified in fasting for a time. Fasting may be an appropriate part of the law of Moses, but in the coming kingdom the sons of God shall experience freedom from fear and joy in the divine spirit.” And when they heard these words, the disciples of John were comforted while the Pharisees themselves were the more confounded.
147:7.3 Then the Master proceeded to warn his hearers against entertaining the notion that all olden teaching should be replaced entirely by new doctrines. Said Jesus: “That which is old and also true must abide. Likewise, that which is new but false must be rejected. But that which is new and also true, have the faith and courage to accept. Remember it is written: `Forsake not an old friend, for the new is not comparable to him. As new wine, so is a new friend; if it becomes old, you shall drink it with gladness.'”
147:7.2 On Tuesday evening Jesus was conducting one of his customary classes of questions and answers when the leader of the six spies said to him: “I was today talking with one of John’s disciples who is here attending upon your teaching, and we were at a loss to understand why you never command your disciples to fast and pray as we Pharisees fast and as John bade his followers.” And Jesus, referring to a statement by John, answered this questioner: “Do the sons of the bridechamber fast while the bridegroom is with them? As long as the bridegroom remains with them, they can hardly fast. But the time is coming when the bridegroom shall be taken away, and during those times the children of the bridechamber undoubtedly will fast and pray. To pray is natural for the children of light, but fasting is not a part of the gospel of the kingdom of heaven. Be reminded that a wise tailor does not sew a piece of new and unshrunk cloth upon an old garment, lest, when it is wet, it shrink and produce a worse rent. Neither do men put new wine into old wine skins, lest the new wine burst the skins so that both the wine and the skins perish. The wise man puts the new wine into fresh wine skins. Therefore do my disciples show wisdom in that they do not bring too much of the old order over into the new teaching of the gospel of the kingdom. You who have lost your teacher may be justified in fasting for a time. Fasting may be an appropriate part of the law of Moses, but in the coming kingdom the sons of God shall experience freedom from fear and joy in the divine spirit.” And when they heard these words, the disciples of John were comforted while the Pharisees themselves were the more confounded.
147:7.3 Then the Master proceeded to warn his hearers against entertaining the notion that all olden teaching should be replaced entirely by new doctrines. Said Jesus: “That which is old and also true must abide. Likewise, that which is new but false must be rejected. But that which is new and also true, have the faith and courage to accept. Remember it is written: `Forsake not an old friend, for the new is not comparable to him. As new wine, so is a new friend; if it becomes old, you shall drink it with gladness.'”
Caino
http://www.freeurantia.org/AHistory.htm
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/cosmiccitizen/2012/06/23/the-cosmic-citizen--what-inspires-you
533 Diversy Parkway, Chicago, where it all happened.
Caino
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/cosmiccitizen/2012/06/23/the-cosmic-citizen--what-inspires-you
533 Diversy Parkway, Chicago, where it all happened.
Caino
Charity
New member
What is it? Is it Just me?....every notion on its own needs the fragrance of the celebrity?
Dr. William S. Sadler, Dr. Meredith Sprunger an miss Kellogg
are THE KEY PLAYERS, being the ones all are asked to focus on, read all about their greatness
http://www.freeurantia.org/Chapter2.htm
But!
Have they got a picture of the Man that delivered the message?
you may have already posted the pics caino....
Dr. William S. Sadler, Dr. Meredith Sprunger an miss Kellogg
are THE KEY PLAYERS, being the ones all are asked to focus on, read all about their greatness
http://www.freeurantia.org/Chapter2.htm
But!
Have they got a picture of the Man that delivered the message?
you may have already posted the pics caino....
What is it? Is it Just me?....every notion on its own needs the fragrance of the celebrity?
Dr. William S. Sadler, Dr. Meredith Sprunger an miss Kellogg
are THE KEY PLAYERS, being the ones all are asked to focus on, read all about their greatness
http://www.freeurantia.org/Chapter2.htm
But!
Have they got a picture of the Man that delivered the message?
you may have already posted the pics caino....
The "sleeping subject" that the material came through will forever remain a mystery. There really is no celebrity associated with the revelation itself, only interesting people. Dr. Lena Saddler was a remarkable women for her time apart from the revelation.
It was important that there was no "Paul" type of human celebrity.
Caino
The world knew nothing of the UB or those connected with the revelation with the exception of "the Forum" who met each week at 522 Diversy to discuss various topics of that time. Sadler began reading papers to the Forum and soliciting questions for the revelators. Much of the book was guided by these "questions."
The revelators requested that those associated with the papers "study" them for a number of years before a book was to be published. The papers were type set at the publisher and held in a vault from the early 40's up until 1955 when permission was granted by the revelators to publish them in "The Urantia Book." The last communication was "now you are on your own." Sadler said "they didn't even say goodbye."
Those associated with the book had to raise $50,000 for the printing. The book was in a trust, NONE of them made ANY profit whatsoever from the book. Their personal notoriety only grew AFTER, long after the book started to gain some attention by the world. Dr. Lena Sadler died of cancer in 1939.
The Urantia revelation will forever remain a great spiritual mystery and will be more accepted by a future, mature age.
The revelators requested that those associated with the papers "study" them for a number of years before a book was to be published. The papers were type set at the publisher and held in a vault from the early 40's up until 1955 when permission was granted by the revelators to publish them in "The Urantia Book." The last communication was "now you are on your own." Sadler said "they didn't even say goodbye."
Those associated with the book had to raise $50,000 for the printing. The book was in a trust, NONE of them made ANY profit whatsoever from the book. Their personal notoriety only grew AFTER, long after the book started to gain some attention by the world. Dr. Lena Sadler died of cancer in 1939.
The Urantia revelation will forever remain a great spiritual mystery and will be more accepted by a future, mature age.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
teaching illustrations......
teaching illustrations......
Granted, religious fiction can serve as a vehicle for sharing meanings and values, thru 'stories', whether one can prove that the actual characters in the 'play' are actually 'real' or not,...but thats a matter of 'defining'. - the value of the story and the principles it shares is what is essential
pj
teaching illustrations......
Granted, religious fiction can serve as a vehicle for sharing meanings and values, thru 'stories', whether one can prove that the actual characters in the 'play' are actually 'real' or not,...but thats a matter of 'defining'. - the value of the story and the principles it shares is what is essential
pj
Well indeed, and of course the same applies to Socrates, who also may be fictional. The ideas attributed to that character remain of interest.Granted, religious fiction can serve as a vehicle for sharing meanings and values, thru 'stories', whether one can prove that the actual characters in the 'play' are actually 'real' or not,...but thats a matter of 'defining'. - the value of the story and the principles it shares is what is essential
pj
But some require Jesus to have actually existed. And the only source that claims to know what Jesus said or did is adamant that people need him to have actually existed - it is an intrinsic "idea of Jesus".
A more important point could be whether Jesus was first with the ideas people associate with him, and whether there have been better versions of those ideas before or since.
Stuart
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