The Late Great Urantia Revelation

Lon

Well-known member
There is some truth to what you say, even as a child I already knew that the people who murdered Jesus were evil. It was obvious to me that the things they wrote about in their history were not true or exaggerated. (But the UB reveals that their major themes were true minus their self important exaggerations, speaking as if God were speaking). I could easily see the inconsistency's and conflicting doctrines of sect divided Christendom.
They aren't honking huge discrepancies. Even at the beginning, there were 7 church[es]. While many don't like denominations, it is not bad. Try to pass a $100 bill at a convenience store, sometimes they don't have change because the "denomination" is too big. It isn't always a bad thing and CERTAINLY not fodder for another gospel.
Surrendering to Bible worship requires dumbing down peoples God given sensibilities.
Sort of. It requires "Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and LEAN NOT on your own understandings. YOU, sir, are NOT smarter than God. If you think so, and think that you have to be 'dumb' it already sets you up for a 'god of YOUR own making.' Guess what? YOUR god isn't that intelligent comparatively. Did you READ the Jesus' childhood section???? Simply? NOT from a messenger and frankly childish and hack. It is SO obvious there is nothing divine about it. It doesn't lead me to God, it leads away from Him. At the very least, this important discussion and comparison sheds light on Urantia inadequacies. It doesn't need 1000 pages, to point that out but it may lead you to truth instead of making up your own and buying into humanism. ALL of your reasons for dismissing the Bible are rationalizations.
They tell you that you are too stupid to understand profundities which aren't there. The OT was written for the child like mind of Bronze Age men who would only respond to a Great and Terrible God of power, fire, vengeance, jealousy etc. To me I liken the Israelite priest class to the Wizard of OZ behind the curtain, presenting a great and powerful Yahweh, the nature God of the Sini Volcano which everyone should FEAR!
Keep telling yourself that? You can bring up a point to discuss so that it can be proved wrong. The same God that is involved in the O.T. quoted from it in the New. THAT same God says He "so loved the world." It is the very thing you dismiss as neanderthal, BUT we aren't a civilized race. Look at the headlines. Look at the 'entertainment fodder' of the average citizen. We need a bit of handling and need wake ups to keep us from destroying ourselves. You don't agree? Well, you don't get to write or embrace your own sentimentalities over it. Such doesn't do anything to help. Platitudes aren't helpful and that is about the whole of the content of your Urantia book. It is completely useless for the need of mankind steeped in sin.
Jesus wasn't on board with your need to have someone killed because you are incapable of owning your own sins.
Incorrect, He died for them.
“Abraham is our father,” they replied.
“If you were children of Abraham,” said Jesus, “you would do the works of Abraham. But now you are trying to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham never did such a thing. You are doing the works of your father.”

Thwarting the original Gospel and killing the Son was the will of the devil, turning the other cheek in Love on the cross was the will of the Father.
Thus he WAS on board : Plain:
I Identify with Jesus who was so excited for his first visit to the Temple but in turn it began his disillusionment with the system.
I realize that is WHY you turned to Urantia in the first place, looking for an out, and excuse rather than addressing the actual need. Disenfranchisement leaves you without that God and creating, running to a different one of your OWN mind and head. Guess what? Your head and rationalizations aren't mine. It means necessarily one of us is chasing a demon, a fake, a charlatan. Remember Jesus saying "many will say here is a Christ? There is a Christ?" He said not to be disenfranchised, yet you did. YOU did. You cannot blame anybody for that, it wasn't an act of love, Caino. It was an exercise of YOUR selfishness. YOUR self-centered desires. God demands we become like Him, not vice versa.
Jesus at Jerusalem

125:5.2 (1382.4) Before the day had ended, the entire attention of the chief discussion group of the temple had become focused upon the questions being asked by Jesus. Among his many questions were:

125:5.3 (1382.5) 1. What really exists in the holy of holies, behind the veil?
No, not really anything but a platitude. The Pharisees weren't looking for 'information.' The Sadducees weren't either. They were looking to exercise THEIR doctrine and Jesus told them where they were 'badly mistaken' (like with you here).
125:5.4 (1382.6) 2. Why should mothers in Israel be segregated from the male temple worshipers?
No, this is simply 20th century reasoning transplanted. It is MORE than obvious that this is what Dr. Sadler and friends were wanting to import into THEIR theology FROM the 20th century!
125:5.5 (1382.7) 3. If God is a father who loves his children, why all this slaughter of animals to gain divine favor—has the teaching of Moses been misunderstood?
It was simply because a barbaric people needed to understand the depths of the problem of sin as well as the drastic situation to compare it to. Sin IS life and death Caino! When is the last time you watched the news? (not that I advocate, just that it is evident man still needs a Savior desperately. It IS life and death. Men die because of sin in this world.)
125:5.6 (1382.8) 4. Since the temple is dedicated to the worship of the Father in heaven, is it consistent to permit the presence of those who engage in secular barter and trade?
No idea why this even crossed Dr. Sadler's mind.
125:5.7 (1382.9) 5. Is the expected Messiah to become a temporal prince to sit on the throne of David, or is he to function as the light of life in the establishment of a spiritual kingdom?
: Plain: Even the disciples didn't grasp enough of this to even ask the question until AFTER His death.... Dr. Sadler had a poor grasp of the scriptures (as did you). I wrested with God as Jacob did. You? You ran. I pray God runs after you and plagues you as he did Jonah. You'll have to get over 'barbaric' or any other means He must use, before you'll be approachable though. It'll start with your humility rather than your mere man-not-quite-so-righteous-as-you-imagine justifications first.
 

Hilltrot

Well-known member
Rejection of God.
This is what I feel about Urantia.

Urantia describes an endlessly nightmarish life in which humans are stuck in a hamster wheel which endlessly runs. There is no beginning. There is no end. There is simply an endless corporate rat race in which one always has to obtain the next ladder rung next. Where the ladder starts is unknown. Where the ladder ends is unknown. The ladder simply exists and you have to reach the next rung or possibly snuffed out of existence.

In the end, Urantia offers two alternatives. Run a corporate rat race for all eternity for no known reason or be snuffed out of existence. If these were the actual choices I had, I'd choose the latter.

This is why Urantia will never gain steam and is almost dead. Urantia followers tend not to meet so unlike most religions, there isn't even a social aspect to keep it alive. That being said, it doesn't seems like you are as bad as Muslims, Mormons, or Scientology.
 

Lon

Well-known member
This is what I feel about Urantia.
Not just what you 'feel' but a fair assessment.
Urantia describes an endlessly nightmarish life in which humans are stuck in a hamster wheel which endlessly runs. There is no beginning. There is no end. There is simply an endless corporate rat race in which one always has to obtain the next ladder rung next. Where the ladder starts is unknown. Where the ladder ends is unknown. The ladder simply exists and you have to reach the next rung or possibly snuffed out of existence.

In the end, Urantia offers two alternatives. Run a corporate rat race for all eternity for no known reason or be snuffed out of existence. If these were the actual choices I had, I'd choose the latter.

This is why Urantia will never gain steam and is almost dead. Urantia followers tend not to meet so unlike most religions, there isn't even a social aspect to keep it alive.
Agree. As I said, a fair assessment.
That being said, it doesn't seems like you are as bad as Muslims, Mormons, or Scientology.
It seems on par with Mormonism and Scientology to me 🤔
 

Hilltrot

Well-known member
It seems on par with Mormonism and Scientology to me 🤔
Mormon's killed many, many people during their founding and for quite some time. They are controlling of their members and have been used to support child molestation

Scientology kidnaps people, consistently attacks or sues people who disagree with it. They dupe a lot of people out of money.

At worst I see Urantia to be a bad science fiction club that leads a few people (There are very few people who follow this.) away. Mormonism and Scientology are far worse IMO.
 

Caino

Well-known member
Mormon's killed many, many people during their founding and for quite some time. They are controlling of their members and have been used to support child molestation

Scientology kidnaps people, consistently attacks or sues people who disagree with it. They dupe a lot of people out of money.

At worst I see Urantia to be a bad science fiction club that leads a few people (There are very few people who follow this.) away. Mormonism and Scientology are far worse IMO.
BTW, the UB community has no leader other than the spirit. The book was put in a trust in 1955. There is a small foundation office of about 5 people. The UB is a revelation, not a religion.

Dr Saler donated his old home/office to the foundation.

The last communication from the celestials when granting permission to publish the book was "Now you are on your own" They didn't even say goodbye.

533May200702.straight_crop485_0.jpg
 

JudgeRightly

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I have removed Caino's second most recent post (relative to this post) due to Intentional Blasphemy.

This is a reminder that this is a mainline Christian board, and that blasphemy will not be tolerated.
 

Hilltrot

Well-known member
Clearly you haven't read the book which is growing all around the world in popularity. There are study groups around the world as well as hundreds of FB Urantia Groups. There are a number of translations, the Hebrew translation was completed last year.
Like this one - https://www.facebook.com/UrantiaWorshipDFW

I don't doubt there are people desperately trying to make this into something - to sell books if nothing else.

In the Urantia revelation life does have a beginning for humans, birth. For the saved its not a "hamster wheel" rather we keep growing in the knowledge of the Universal Father and in the service to others. We become more spiritual, more divine as we eventually "fuse" with the divine presence of God, the Thought Adjuster.
I asked why we were created. You answer - I don't know. That means no beginning.

So now you discuss the end goal which basically means a complete end to your identity. Being snuffed out before having to run the rat race seems better to me.

I based this on what you said you believed. I'm judging Urantia based on your own beliefs.

The rest of your post was deleted but I would like to explain some of what the BIble says about what you said,

The Bible states our purpose and the reason we were created at the beginning.

Genesis 1:26 NLT
Then God said, “Let us make human beings in our image, to be like us. They will reign over the fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, the livestock, all the wild animals on the earth, and the small animals that scurry along the ground.”

We were made to rule. That is the why.

Revelation 22:5 NLT
And there will be no night there—no need for lamps or sun—for the Lord God will shine on them. And they will reign forever and ever.

The end goal is to set things right and return to our purpose of ruling.

Revelation 21:8 NLT
“But cowards, unbelievers, the corrupt, murderers, the immoral, those who practice witchcraft, idol worshipers, and all liars—their fate is in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

While some interpret this to mean a never-ending agony, I and many others interpret this to means the person will cease to exist.
 

Caino

Well-known member
Like this one - https://www.facebook.com/UrantiaWorshipDFW

I don't doubt there are people desperately trying to make this into something - to sell books if nothing else.


I asked why we were created. You answer - I don't know. That means no beginning.

So now you discuss the end goal which basically means a complete end to your identity. Being snuffed out before having to run the rat race seems better to me.

I based this on what you said you believed. I'm judging Urantia based on your own beliefs.

The rest of your post was deleted but I would like to explain some of what the BIble says about what you said,

The Bible states our purpose and the reason we were created at the beginning.

Genesis 1:26 NLT
Then God said, “Let us make human beings in our image, to be like us. They will reign over the fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, the livestock, all the wild animals on the earth, and the small animals that scurry along the ground.”

We were made to rule. That is the why.

Revelation 22:5 NLT
And there will be no night there—no need for lamps or sun—for the Lord God will shine on them. And they will reign forever and ever.

The end goal is to set things right and return to our purpose of ruling.

Revelation 21:8 NLT
“But cowards, unbelievers, the corrupt, murderers, the immoral, those who practice witchcraft, idol worshipers, and all liars—their fate is in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

While some interpret this to mean a never-ending agony, I and many others interpret this to means the person will cease to exist.
You never asked why we were created and I never said I didn't know.

God created the inhabited worlds and the myriads of different types of beings because he is a giving, loving Father who wanted to have children.

The first paper explains this. The Universal Father
 

Hilltrot

Well-known member
You never asked why we were created and I never said I didn't know.
Let's start with the beginning. Why were we made? Or, why do we exist?
We exist because Gods so willed.
We just are not equipped to understand more than we can.
That being said,
God created the inhabited worlds and the myriads of different types of beings because he is a giving, loving Father who wanted to have children.
is an actual answer to my question.
 

Caino

Well-known member
That being said,

is an actual answer to my question.
Ok, now I see. You did ask that a while back.
I don't understand how you concluded that our identity comes to an and because we continue to grow in understanding and spirit? You said you would rather be snuffed out?
 
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Caino

Well-known member
God exists on different levels of realty. The I AM is infinite and eternal. Infinity is timeless. The infinite God is everywhere and every when.



THE PHILOSOPHIC CONCEPT OF THE I AM​



105:1.1 "Absolute primal causation in infinity the philosophers of the universes attribute to the Universal Father functioning as the infinite, the eternal, and the absolute I AM.

105:1.2 There are many elements of danger attendant upon the presentation to the mortal intellect of this idea of an infinite I AM since this concept is so remote from human experiential understanding as to involve serious distortion of meanings and misconception of values. Nevertheless, the philosophic concept of the I AM does afford finite beings some basis for an attempted approach to the partial comprehension of absolute origins and infinite destinies. But in all our attempts to elucidate the genesis and fruition of reality, let it be made clear that this concept of the I AM is, in all personality meanings and values, synonymous with the First Person of Deity, the Universal Father of all personalities. But this postulate of the I AM is not so clearly identifiable in undeified realms of universal reality.

105:1.3The I AM is the Infinite; the I AM is also infinity. From the sequential, time viewpoint, all reality has its origin in the infinite I AM, whose solitary existence in past infinite eternity must be a finite creature’s premier philosophic postulate. The concept of the I AM connotes unqualified infinity, the undifferentiated reality of all that could ever be in all of an infinite eternity.

105:1.4 As an existential concept the I AM is neither deified nor undeified, neither actual nor potential, neither personal nor impersonal, neither static nor dynamic. No qualification can be applied to the Infinite except to state that the I AM is. The philosophic postulate of the I AM is one universe concept which is somewhat more difficult of comprehension than that of the Unqualified Absolute.

105:1.5 To the finite mind there simply must be a beginning, and though there never was a real beginning to reality, still there are certain source relationships which reality manifests to infinity. The prereality, primordial, eternity situation may be thought of something like this: At some infinitely distant, hypothetical, past-eternity moment, the I AM may be conceived as both thing and no thing, as both cause and effect, as both volition and response. At this hypothetical eternity moment there is no differentiation throughout all infinity. Infinity is filled by the Infinite; the Infinite encompasses infinity. This is the hypothetical static moment of eternity; actuals are still contained within their potentials, and potentials have not yet appeared within the infinity of the I AM. But even in this conjectured situation we must assume the existence of the possibility of self-will.

105:1.6 Ever remember that man’s comprehension of the Universal Father is a personal experience. God, as your spiritual Father, is comprehensible to you and to all other mortals; but your experiential worshipful concept of the Universal Father must always be less than your philosophic postulate of the infinity of the First Source and Center, the I AM. When we speak of the Father, we mean God as he is understandable by his creatures both high and low, but there is much more of Deity which is not comprehensible to universe creatures. God, your Father and my Father, is that phase of the Infinite which we perceive in our personalities as an actual experiential reality, but the I AM ever remains as our hypothesis of all that we feel is unknowable of the First Source and Center. And even that hypothesis probably falls far short of the unfathomed infinity of original reality.

105:1.7 The universe of universes, with its innumerable host of inhabiting personalities, is a vast and complex organism, but the First Source and Center is infinitely more complex than the universes and personalities which have become real in response to his willful mandates. When you stand in awe of the magnitude of the master universe, pause to consider that even this inconceivable creation can be no more than a partial revelation of the Infinite.

105:1.8 Infinity is indeed remote from the experience level of mortal comprehension, but even in this age on Urantia your concepts of infinity are growing, and they will continue to grow throughout your endless careers stretching onward into future eternity. Unqualified infinity is meaningless to the finite creature, but infinity is capable of self-limitation and is susceptible of reality expression to all levels of universe existences. And the face which the Infinite turns toward all universe personalities is the face of a Father, the Universal Father of love." UB 1955
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Spoken like the members of the Sanhedrin.

Caino
Lol......your book says man came from lemur's. There is no need to read anything else in the book. It's hard for me to believe there are people who actually believe this nonsense.
 

Caino

Well-known member
Lol......your book says man came from lemur's. There is no need to read anything else in the book. It's hard for me to believe there are people who actually believe this nonsense.
Contempt prior to investigation guarantees a life of perpetual ignorance. I'm so grateful to have an open mind.

The UB reveals the truth about the creation of life via evolution, something science began figuring out long ago. The records of this fact are in the earth.
 

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tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
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Contempt prior to investigation guarantees a life of perpetual ignorance. I'm so grateful to have an open mind.

The UB reveals the truth about the creation of life via evolution, something science began figuring out long ago. The records of this fact are in the earth.
I investigated, I read the papers you attached prior to posting. Those papers are in direct opposition to the Word of God. God the Father made us in His image, He created man, man didn't evolve from monkeys.

62:2.1 (703.5) A little more than one million years ago the Mesopotamian dawn mammals, the direct descendants of the North American lemur type of placental mammal, suddenly appeared.

"Suddenly appeared".....that's pretty funny.
 

Caino

Well-known member
I investigated, I read the papers you attached prior to posting. Those papers are in direct opposition to the Word of God. God the Father made us in His image, He created man, man didn't evolve from monkeys.

62:2.1 (703.5) A little more than one million years ago the Mesopotamian dawn mammals, the direct descendants of the North American lemur type of placental mammal, suddenly appeared.

"Suddenly appeared".....that's pretty funny.
Its a revelation from celestial beings to people who can receive it. All prophets and revelations have been hated at first by hard hearted religious people. The UB is really a revelation for the next age. We are at the beginning of the next age.

Evolution of life has been characterized by the "sudden appearance" of new species and diversified orders of living organisms.
 
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Caino

Well-known member
I investigated, I read the papers you attached prior to posting. Those papers are in direct opposition to the Word of God. God the Father made us in His image, He created man, man didn't evolve from monkeys.

62:2.1 (703.5) A little more than one million years ago the Mesopotamian dawn mammals, the direct descendants of the North American lemur type of placental mammal, suddenly appeared.

"Suddenly appeared".....that's pretty funny.
Suddenly appeared is funny? Have you read Genesis?
 

Caino

Well-known member
The Discourse on True Religion



155:5.12 "And Jesus went on to say: “At Jerusalem the religious leaders have formulated the various doctrines of their traditional teachers and the prophets of other days into an established system of intellectual beliefs, a religion of authority. The appeal of all such religions is largely to the mind. And now are we about to enter upon a deadly conflict with such a religion since we will so shortly begin the bold proclamation of a new religion—a religion which is not a religion in the present-day meaning of that word, a religion that makes its chief appeal to the divine spirit of my Father which resides in the mind of man; a religion which shall derive its authority from the fruits of its acceptance that will so certainly appear in the personal experience of all who really and truly become believers in the truths of this higher spiritual communion.”

155:5.13 Pointing out each of the twenty-four and calling them by name, Jesus said: “And now, which one of you would prefer to take this easy path of conformity to an established and fossilized religion, as defended by the Pharisees at Jerusalem, rather than to suffer the difficulties and persecutions attendant upon the mission of proclaiming a better way of salvation to men while you realize the satisfaction of discovering for yourselves the beauties of the realities of a living and personal experience in the eternal truths and supreme grandeurs of the kingdom of heaven? Are you fearful, soft, and ease-seeking? Are you afraid to trust your future in the hands of the God of truth, whose sons you are? Are you distrustful of the Father, whose children you are? Will you go back to the easy path of the certainty and intellectual settledness of the religion of traditional authority, or will you gird yourselves to go forward with me into that uncertain and troublous future of proclaiming the new truths of the religion of the spirit, the kingdom of heaven in the hearts of men?” UB 1955
 

Caino

Well-known member
In Genesis, God created. No creatures "suddenly appeared".
Created in Genesis means suddenly appeared. In the Israelites story of origins the earth and everything on it was created during creation week. In the UB there were long periods of time between evolutionary steps. From the Dawn Mammels to the first Humans was a period of 15,000 years, 600 generations.
 
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