The Late Great Urantia Revelation

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Aimiel

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Jesus taught what His Blood is: ransom payment. We are slaves to sin unless His Blood is applied to our hearts. Without that payment on our ransom, we are owned by sin. Being redeemed from sin by His Blood is the only way we can be accepted by The Father. The thing false religions don't have is The Blood of The Lamb. The one thing that can save men from their sins is The Blood of The Lamb. We need His Blood or we are hopeless.
 

jamie

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And, sooner or later, these concealed truths of the fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of men...

But some of us don't subscribe to the FOGBOM philosphy. I know Jesus didn't.

Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say they are Jews and are not, but lie — indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet and to know that I have loved you. (Revelation 3:9)​
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
truth to consider.......

truth to consider.......

Yep! These 'cultists' want posters to peruse their false teachings! This
can be a source of confusion for new believers, the weak brothers, and
those who don't have a complete knowledge of the Old and New
Testament! That's why it's very important to read and study the
Bible! (New and Old Testament) Then, when these 'charlatans come
along, they won't be confused or lead astray!

First to address to address a part of PPS's post which this is a response to ( I have him on ignore, but will from time to time address a part of his posts that turn up with those responding to something he wrote, since I will not take him off ignore to read his posts, so can only see snippets if someone else posts something he writes) -

He wrote -

Even though I've actually read the first 7 Urantia papers, and have thorough skimmed the next 5; I don't have to read everything to now it's false historical revision.

That's commendable, but the first 12 are recommended for a better foundational overlay of the cosmology/theology, the fundamentals upon which all else rests. How is it false historical revision? It confirms, enhances and expands upon the fundamental principles of God's nature, His relationship to creation, the cosmos and the Paradise Trinity relationship, unveiling the First Source and Center being at the heart of the Universe of universes. The revelators used the base of human knowledge up to that point in time and revealed more appropriate to man's reception of such, at that dispensational period,....being the 5th Epochal Revelation.

I also don't have to read x-rated novels to know they don't offer anything theologically valid.

Equating the caliber and quality of truths and divine principles espoused in the papers to 'x-rated novels' is ridiculous for starters, but that would seem within the ballpark of your typical 'pot shots', being perhaps just a tad below 'fecal matter'. I'd focus on eternal principles of goodness, truth and beauty which the papers expound to the glory of 'God' and the divine potential of Man in his eternal partnership with 'God', which is what life is all about. Truth is truth wherever its found, and a pearl of great price must first be recognized in order to be valued.

~*~*~

To GM - you're just spouting the same ole lines, the same religious propaganda of a narrow view of 'God' relegating the INFINITE to a collection of books as the final and only revelation to mankind, piece-mealing your own packaged dogma since it provides comfort to the religious ego and a security-blanket for the mind. You would do well to consider true principles or concepts wherever they are found, because the Bible is certainly not the only source or man-written document or collection of writings that are inspired on this wonderful planet, neither has 'God' limited the revelation of himself only to a small tribe or 'race', for his omnipresence and primal reality is at the heart of all that exists, revealed/expressed by various religious traditions and messengers in a variety of forms, mythologies and archetypes. Having a creative imagination and far-reaching mind to appreciate the vastness of God's wisdom and the fullness of its breadth would do you well, since He is omnipresent, universal, infinite and all-encompassing.

The Truth of 'God' is Self-evident, no matter what scaffolding, symbols, terms, language is used to describe or represent the underlying reality, since language itself is symbolic.



pj
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Cork it Petunia........

Cork it Petunia........

Please, don't be offended but I consider this non-sense, so much
hogwash! If you desire to 'fall' for it, that's fine, and perfectly okay
with me! There are some who have very little, if any discernment
of truth! In fact, they can't see the difference between truth and
untruth! I would consider that you, fall into this category!

I'm almost certain that you're not self-aware of this, even though
that doesn't change the conclusion! Evidently, you've chosen your
path, and logic, and reason won't change that!

What you can do towards the passages this is a response to is show specifically what you find wrong or disagreeable, if you'd like to actually engage in a dialogue on the subject matter, beside continue on with your knee-jerk reactions and usual discounting remarks. Is that possible?


pj
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
FOGBOM - a wonderful concept......

FOGBOM - a wonderful concept......

But some of us don't subscribe to the FOGBOM philosphy. I know Jesus didn't.

Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say they are Jews and are not, but lie — indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet and to know that I have loved you. (Revelation 3:9)​


I don't see where the universal principle of The Fatherhood of God & Brotherhood of Man is discounted here, beyond being a matter of presupposition and 'interpretation'. Seems like this misses the mark. While passages speak of a 'sifting' and 'sorting' of 'goats' from 'sheep', and other metaphors,...the will of God is still for the salvation/restoration/healing of all, that God may be all in all.

Why would you discount the concept of God's universal Fatherhood and the universal brotherhood of all men? Is this concept inimical to God's will, or his divine nature which is love? Is God not the Father of all spirits, the God of all flesh, the Progenitor of all? Do not all souls belong to Him? You'll have to bring more to the table to discredit the FOGBOM philosophy to show where this is not God's ultimate will and vision for his universe-family.



pj
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Atonement without blood......

Atonement without blood......

Jesus taught what His Blood is: ransom payment. We are slaves to sin unless His Blood is applied to our hearts. Without that payment on our ransom, we are owned by sin. Being redeemed from sin by His Blood is the only way we can be accepted by The Father. The thing false religions don't have is The Blood of The Lamb. The one thing that can save men from their sins is The Blood of The Lamb. We need His Blood or we are hopeless.

All God requires is repentance, since it is only the change of mind (inward transformation of consciousness) that sins are atoned for and reparation is made. The metaphor of 'blood' has its applications symbolically as far as its esotoric meaning. This has been covered amply elsewhere as far as what the UB says about such.

Just for an extra treat, I'll quote a portion from the Gospel of the Holy 12 (which emphasized more of a vegetarian/humane gospel presentation, which opposes the animal sacrifices of the temple-system and 'meat-eating' typical of the Essene-Nazarene followers of Jesus) -

1. IESUS was teaching his disciples in the outer court of the Temple and one of them said unto him: Master, it is said by the priests that without shedding of blood there is no remission. Can then the blood offering of the law take away sin?

2. And Iesus answered: No blood offering, of beast or bird, or man, can take away sin, for how can the conscience be purged from sin by the shedding of innocent blood? Nay, it will increase the condemnation.

3. The priests indeed receive such offering as a reconciliation of the worshippers for the trespasses against the law of Moses, but for sins against the Law of God there can be no remission, save by repentance and amendment.

4. Is it not written in the prophets, Put your blood sacrifices to your burnt offerings, and away with them, and cease ye from the eating of flesh, for I spake not to your fathers nor commanded them, when I brought them out of Egypt, concerning these things? But this thing I commanded saying:

5, Obey my voice and walk in the ways that I have commanded you, and ye shall be my people, and it shall be well with you. But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear.

6. And what doth the Eternal command you but to do justice, love mercy and walk humbly with your God? Is it not written that in the beginning God ordained the fruits of the trees and the seeds and the herbs to be food for all flesh?

7. But they have made the House of Prayer a den of thieves, and for the pure Oblation with Incense, they have polluted my altars with blood, and eaten of the flesh of the slain.

8. But I say unto you: Shed no innocent blood nor eat ye flesh. Walk uprightly, love mercy, and do justly, and your days shall be long in the land.

- Gospel of the Holy 12


If anything, the transfer of God's blood (if we can materially relate such a thing from 'pure spirit') is the vivifying life-principle or 'force' which enlivens the flesh, which by analogy on a 'spirit-level' is the life of the Spirit. The blood of the lamb is that pure virgin life-essence of innocence, which covers 'sin' symbolically, yet the soul must still simultaneously be transformed within (via repentance/regeneration). I've never insulted the blood of Jesus and have always respected its value, although variously applied and interpreted (no matter what nay-sayers assume). STILL,....the gospel message is 'Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand', it is in your midst, it is all-encompassing, it is 'among' (within) your reach, being 'available'. - you bring your own 'heart', 'soul' and 'body' to it, immersing yourself into that Living Presence. - this is the true 'sacrifice'. - it is so, and ever shall be.


pj
 

Caino

BANNED
Banned
But some of us don't subscribe to the FOGBOM philosphy. I know Jesus didn't.

Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say they are Jews and are not, but lie — indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet and to know that I have loved you. (Revelation 3:9)​

It doesn't matter that you don't like it or falsely claim that Jesus did not consider God as Father or men as Sons. The kingdom will go on with or without you.
 

Aimiel

Well-known member
It doesn't matter that you don't like it or falsely claim that Jesus did not consider God as Father or men as Sons. The kingdom will go on with or without you.
The kingdom of the god of this world, you mean. :duh:
 

Aimiel

Well-known member
Truth is truth wherever its found, and a pearl of great price must first be recognized in order to be valued.
That 'pearl' is Christ. Not recognizing Him is the greatest of all errors.
...the Bible is certainly not the only source or man-written document or collection of writings that are inspired on this wonderful planet...
Actually, it is. The rest are thieves and robbers, if they do not point men TO Christ. The UB points men away from Him denying the power of The Blood of The Lamb.
The Truth of 'God' is Self-evident...
Were that the case, all men would be saved. They obviously aren't.
 

Aimiel

Well-known member
All God requires is repentance, since it is only the change of mind (inward transformation of consciousness) that sins are atoned for and reparation is made.
God does require repentance but He also requires faith. The Blood of Christ was prophesied forth in the sacrifice of animals to make clothing for Adam and Eve, otherwise God would have allowed them to continue to wear the fig leaves they were using as covering for their sin.
The metaphor of 'blood' has its applications symbolically as far as its esotoric meaning.
You can symbolize whatever you like, it still took Christ dying upon the cross and making a point of the fact that without eating His Flesh and drinking His Blood you would die in your sins. You have no life in you because you don't obey Him. His Blood is what will cleanse you from your sin. Until you submit to His Word you are anathema.
This has been covered amply elsewhere as far as what the UB says about such.
Explaining things away and excusing yourself doesn't satisfy God, it only satisfies your seared conscience.
If anything, the transfer of God's blood (if we can materially relate such a thing from 'pure spirit') is the vivifying life-principle or 'force' which enlivens the flesh, which by analogy on a 'spirit-level' is the life of the Spirit.
No. His death by the shedding of His Blood was the sacrifice of a perfect and sinless life. Because of that travesty of justice Jesus is able to convey His Life (eternal) to the sinner just as Adam transferred His death sentence (sin, which demands eternal punishment) to all of his progeny by one act of treason.
The blood of the lamb is that pure virgin life-essence of innocence, which covers 'sin' symbolically, yet the soul must still simultaneously be transformed within (via repentance/regeneration).
No. It is His Blood which flows through the veins of the saved which gives us life. We drink His Blood and become not just like Him: we become Him, in spirit. We have The Mind of Christ. We have The Spirit of Christ. The Father looks at us and sees: Christ. He looks at Christ and sees us: our sin-debt already paid since He died in our place. He gives us life since He took our penalty for sinning (death).
I've never insulted the blood of Jesus and have always respected its value, although variously applied and interpreted (no matter what nay-sayers assume).
You wipe your shoes on His Blood every time you dismiss It as merely a symbol and don't recognize the fact that it was shed for YOU.
STILL,....the gospel message is 'Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand', it is in your midst, it is all-encompassing, it is 'among' (within) your reach, being 'available'. - you bring your own 'heart', 'soul' and 'body' to it, immersing yourself into that Living Presence. - this is the true 'sacrifice'. - it is so, and ever shall be.
No, The Kingdom is 'at hand' because it is within reach, but it still takes faith in His Blood to cross over into That Kingdom. Without faith it is impossible to please God. You believe that everyone pleases God. That is just an extension of your dad's first lie: "You shall not surely die."
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
What you can do towards the passages this is a response to is show specifically what you find wrong or disagreeable, if you'd like to actually engage in a dialogue on the subject matter, beside continue on with your knee-jerk reactions and usual discounting remarks. Is that possible?


pj

Yes, it is possible, if you'll only leave the
phony 'urantia papers' out of the equation,
and stick to the Bible! Can you do this?
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
You're clearly 'clueless' about what the Urantia Papers are about (most importantly the principles values and meanings it espouses), for starters, - all else you're spouting is spoon-fed apologetics and bibliolatry. But keep the good work up in keeping the thread in the 'hot-seat', where other readers can use the dialogue to think for themselves.


pj

I'm 'clueless' about the 'Book of Mormon' and Satanism too! What
is your point?
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
To GM - you're just spouting the same ole lines, the same religious propaganda of a narrow view of 'God' relegating the INFINITE to a collection of books as the final and only revelation to mankind, piece-mealing your own packaged dogma since it provides comfort to the religious ego and a security-blanket for the mind. You would do well to consider true principles or concepts wherever they are found,

Even, if they be found in a comic book such as the "urantia papers?"
 

Caino

BANNED
Banned
Man never was the property of the arch deceiver. That was the good news for so many poor people who lived under the oppressive sacrificial system. The restoration of dignity and joy for those who by faith realized they were the sons and daughters of a living loving God was like cool rain on parched earth.

No ransom needed to be paid because no one was being held hostage. People were mainly subject to their own confusion and misunderstanding, much of which was created by religious authority who received a cut off of the need for clean blood sacrifices.

Today the church still gets a cut off of the grotesque theory of human sacrifice of the Son of God from the ignorant masses who have been indoctrinated by the churches official Pagan interpretation of the cross.

"Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do."


Bishop Clarence McClendon, posing in front of his Bentley, does not hide his love of wealth.
 
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Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Man never was the property of the arch deceiver. That was the good news for so many poor people who lived under the oppressive sacrificial system. The restoration of dignity and joy for those who by faith realized they were the sons and daughters of a living loving God was like cool rain on parched earth.

No ransom needed to be paid because no one was being help hostage. People were mainly subject to their own confusion and misunderstanding much of which was created by religious authority who received a cut off of the need for clean blood sacrifices.

Today the church still gets a cut off of the grotesque theory of human sacrifice of the Son of God from the ignorant masses who have been indoctrinated by the churches official Pagan interpretation of the cross.

"Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do."

Rarely have I come across one who is, so easily captivated
by 'fiction wrapped as truth!' You, my friend, are such!
 

Aimiel

Well-known member
Man never was the property of the arch deceiver.
That is the original lie, "You shall not surely die," re-packaged. :duh:
No ransom needed to be paid because no one was being held hostage.
Your understanding of Truth is being held hostage. Your eternal destiny hangs in the balance. You have made the wrong choice between life and death... you chose death.
People were mainly subject to their own confusion and misunderstanding, much of which was created by religious authority who received a cut off of the need for clean blood sacrifices.
Confusion is everywhere... created by the enemy and disguised in half-truth. One of the biggest lies he has created is the UB. The biggest one is: "Satan doesn't exist." You buy everything he is selling simply because you won't buy the Truth.
 

Caino

BANNED
Banned
It's weird, even though Jesus excoriated those deceitful men who rejected the prophets and now seek to kill him, Pagan Christians need the unjust trial and murder of Jesus to satisfy their theoretical human sacrifice doctrine. In effect, they need the injustice that Jesus railed against. They talk constantly about blood; Jesus talked about salvation based on faith in the God who has always been forgiving.



Mattew 23

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets."


 

Caino

BANNED
Banned
Now this is a remarkable coincidence, Mithraism predates Jesus by 1,400 years. It was the source of many of the Mystery cults found in the Greco Roman world. It also shared familiar themes with other Pagan theologies.

When we recall that Israel proper was under Roman influence and occupation as well as Greek cultural influences such as the language then it just gets really amazing just how similar evolved Christianity was……by chance of coarse.


Mithra has the following in common with the Jesus (of Christianity not the red letters) character:

Mithra was born on December 25th of the virgin Anahita.
The babe was wrapped in swaddling clothes, placed in a manger and attended by shepherds.
He was considered a great traveling teacher and master.
He had 12 companions or "disciples."
He performed miracles.
As the "great bull of the Sun," Mithra sacrificed himself for world peace.
He ascended to heaven.
Mithra was viewed as the Good Shepherd, the "Way, the Truth and the Light," the Redeemer, the Savior, the Messiah.
Mithra is omniscient, as he "hears all, sees all, knows all: none can deceive him."
He was identified with both the Lion and the Lamb.
His sacred day was Sunday, "the Lord's Day," hundreds of years before the appearance of Christ.
His religion had a eucharist or "Lord's Supper."
Mithra "sets his marks on the foreheads of his soldiers."
Mithraism emphasized baptism.
 
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Aimiel

Well-known member
Bunk!

Quotation taken from a footnote in Reinventing Jesus by Komoszewski, Sawyer, and Wallace. All of these men are experts in their respective fields (theology, church history, and nascent Christology/textual criticism) and so a legitimate appeal to authorities who are experts in this area will serve as the refutation.
While authorities of the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries have posited a continuum between the Persian deity Mithra and Mthraism as a Roman mystery religion, contemporary scholars assert that no such continuity exists. Rather, the recent assessment recognizes that Roman Mithraism arose as a mystery religion during the first century B.C. in Asia Minor. From there it spread throughout the empire to become one of the most successful mystery religions of late antiquity. Eliade notes, "When the Mysteries of Mithra are discussed, it appears inevitable to quote Ernest Renan's famous sentence: 'If Christianity had been halted in its growth by some mortal illness, the world would have been Mithraist.'" (Mircea Eliade, A History of Religious Ideas, trans. Willard R. Trask [Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1982], 2:326).

Eliade and others suggest that this is a vast overstatement. Although Mithraism was widespread and espoused a developed ethical standard, it was almost exclusively a religion of the soldiers and did not admit women to its membership. It would thus not appeal to the masses, women, or slaves.

Despite the claims of obvious and profound parallels between Christianity and Mithraism , when one looks at the evidence an entirely different picture emerges.

First, Mithra was not thought of as virgin born in the most ancient myths; rather, he arose spontaneously from a rock in a cave (Edwin Yamauchi, Persia and the Bible [Grand Rapids: Baker, 1990], 498).

Second, "Mithra is the only god who does not suffer the same tragic destiny as the gods of the other mysteries, so we may conclude that the scenario of Mithraic initiation did not include ordeals suggesting death and resurrection" (Eliade, History of Religious Ideas, 2:324).

Third, the Mithraic concept of history is linear as opposed to the circular concept of the other mysteries. While the other mysteries were centered on the vegetation cycle (Nash, Gospel and the Greeks, 136), Mithraism was an astral religion filled with cosmic symbolism (Ulansey, Mithraic Mysteries, 46-66; Payam Nabarz, The Mysteries of Mithras [Rochester, VT: Inner Traditions, 2005], 24, 145; and Yamauchi, Persia and the Bible, 498).

Fourth, Roman Mithraism was a mystery religion apparently arose in the region of Tarsus in Asia Minor during the first century B.C. There is no evidence that the characteristic features of Mithras are in evidence before A.D. 100 - several decades after the founding of Christianity (Walter Burkert, Ancient Mystery Religions [Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 1987], 7.

J. Ed Komoszewski, M. James Sawyer, and Daniel B. Wallace, Reinventing Jesus, (Grand Rapids, MI: Kregel, 2006), 322-323, fn, 46.
 
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