ECT The Kingdom of Heaven and the Kingdom of God are the same.

Interplanner

Well-known member
Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.


See how this meshes wonderfully with the proclamation of the grace of the Gospel? His people want his reign which happens through that proclamation. Not a state, or political entity. And notice how connected it is to his righteousness.
 

Danoh

New member
See how this meshes wonderfully with the proclamation of the grace of the Gospel? His people want his reign which happens through that proclamation. Not a state, or political entity. And notice how connected it is to his righteousness.

Never mind that two chapters later that seeking of righteousness has no problem with "that gift that Moses commanded" - the animal sacrifices of Lev. 14.

How much time DO you invest in Scripture itself each day?

Not much; right?

Skirt the question, if you must.

It is clear you do not invest much time in THE Book.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Never mind that two chapters later that seeking of righteousness has no problem with "that gift that Moses commanded" - the animal sacrifices of Lev. 14.

How much time DO you invest in Scripture itself each day?

Not much; right?

Skirt the question, if you must.

It is clear you do not invest much time in THE Book.



You can't stop people's traditions on a dime. When John was killed and Jesus said he was going to have the same fate, the disciples understood that, Mt 17:13. But at the same time they did not understand other parts. They probably didn't understand his reign arrived before they died when they heard that, either, 16:28.

You are just a nuisance Danoh. The Bible is very human and historically realistic. it is not perfect 'theology' as you are straining to find and do.
 

Danoh

New member
You can't stop people's traditions on a dime. When John was killed and Jesus said he was going to have the same fate, the disciples understood that, Mt 17:13. But at the same time they did not understand other parts. They probably didn't understand his reign arrived before they died when they heard that, either, 16:28.

You are just a nuisance Danoh. The Bible is very human and historically realistic. it is not perfect 'theology' as you are straining to find and do.

Can't answer that question honestly, can you. Told you I know you, lol

Again...

Your problem, Interplanner is that you have wasted decades in the writings of men supposedly about the Bible. You come away from all that concluding you know what's what.

Fact is you are Biblically illiterate - your every post littered with someone else's conclusions along with a dash of your own based on said conclusions.

You consistently misquote Scripture references while very adept at talking the endless histories you continue to waste your time in.

I know you alright - you are a carbon copy of countless others just like you.

But it is too late for you to see this obvious problem.
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
Can't answer that question honestly, can you. Told you I know you, lol

Again...

Your problem, Interplanner is that you have wasted decades in the writings of men supposedly about the Bible. You come away from all that concluding you know what's what.

Fact is you are Biblically illiterate - your every post littered with someone else's conclusions along with a dash of your own based on said conclusions.

You consistently misquote Scripture references while very adept at talking the endless histories you continue to waste your time in.

I know you alright - you are a carbon copy of countless others just like you.

But it is too late for you to see this obvious problem.

Get it all out Danoh, don't hold back :chuckle:
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Get it all out Danoh, don't hold back :chuckle:



There's more Danoh? Oh great.

Back to the topic: I'm as consistent as these two lines from Hebrews:

8:13 "what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear" and yet:
10:18: "there is no longer any sacrifice for sin" but the worship system kept going didn't it? That's honest historical reality. It's messy. There is no perfect-fit verse for a system because all systems are flawed.
 

Danoh

New member
There's more Danoh? Oh great.

Back to the topic: I'm as consistent as these two lines from Hebrews:

8:13 "what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear" and yet:
10:18: "there is no longer any sacrifice for sin" but the worship system kept going didn't it? That's honest historical reality. It's messy. There is no perfect-fit verse for a system because all systems are flawed.

In other words, both Peter and John were wrong at the opening of Acts 3 and both James and Paul were wrong in Acts 21.

Yeah, ok; bookworm :chuckle:
 

ClimateSanity

New member
In other words, both Peter and John were wrong at the opening of Acts 3 and both James and Paul were wrong in Acts 21.

Yeah, ok; bookworm :chuckle:
Luke 17:21
NASB
nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or, 'There it is!' For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst."

I never have an answer to mainstream people like inter who always bring this verse up. What do you think Jesus means here, especially in light of him later saying the twelve would have twelve thrones judging the tribes of Israel?
 

Danoh

New member
Luke 17:21
NASB
nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or, 'There it is!' For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst."

I never have an answer to mainstream people like inter who always bring this verse up. What do you think Jesus means here, especially in light of him later saying the twelve would have twelve thrones judging the tribes of Israel?

Thing is, as with Jesus that day, there is no answering such people. They invest all their time looking everywhere but in the Scriptures - no matter how much they assert otherwise.

Jesus often reminds those of His day that they look everywhere but right in front of them.

Thus, what else was He telling those fools in the above passage?

Matthew 11:2 Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples, 11:3 And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another? 11:4 Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see: 11:5 The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them. 11:6 And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me. 11:7 And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind? 11:8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings' houses. 11:9 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet. 11:10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. 11:14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come. 11:15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. 11:16 But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows, 11:17 And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented. 11:18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil. 11:19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children. 11:20 Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:

Matthew 17:9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead. 17:10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come? 17:11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. 17:12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. 17:13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

The fools in the Luke passage were staring right at their Prophesied Prophet, Priest, and King doubting Him.

Luke 11:20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.
 

Danoh

New member
I forgot this - it's why He also spoke of a coming kingdom...

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. 17:22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it. 17:23 And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them. 17:24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day. 17:25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.

Because He and His kingdom were rejected when He first came as "the Lamb of God."

Not so when "in the regeneration" He returns as "the Lion of Judah" Matt. 19; Rev. 5.
 

ClimateSanity

New member
I forgot this - it's why He also spoke of a coming kingdom...

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. 17:22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it. 17:23 And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them. 17:24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day. 17:25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.

Because He and His kingdom were rejected when He first came as "the Lamb of God."

Not so when "in the regeneration" He returns as "the Lion of Judah" Matt. 19; Rev. 5.
He is telling them that they won't recognize the Kingdom of God because they don't know what they are looking for, not that it wasn't something physically visable, Jesus was visible and all the great works done by him and his apostles were all physical and all part of the Kingdom of God. It was being physically presented to Israel and what Israel rejected in front of Pilate, they could see when their eyes.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
He is telling them that they won't recognize the Kingdom of God because they don't know what they are looking for, not that it wasn't something physically visable, Jesus was visible and all the great works done by him and his apostles were all physical and all part of the Kingdom of God. It was being physically presented to Israel and what Israel rejected in front of Pilate, they could see when their eyes.


We also notice that the Pharisee theology was that the kingdom's coming was a date to set. (Gee, what does that tell you?) Instead, Christ talks about HOW the reign of God emerges. The Lamb of God reigns; the Lamb was rejected (by plan) but the reign of God was no after thought. It is 'not made by human hands.' It was not possible to reject it (as though humans determine these things) because its power is the resurrection of Christ.

What Israel rejected for itself in the 1st century was an opportunity to be in God's mission without physical conflict with Rome. In an odd twist, even Caiaphas realized there might be a way to preserve the nation by getting rid of one of the (so-called) firebrands, even though fire-branding could not be proven in Christ's case. Jn 12, 18
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
He is telling them that they won't recognize the Kingdom of God because they don't know what they are looking for, not that it wasn't something physically visable, Jesus was visible and all the great works done by him and his apostles were all physical and all part of the Kingdom of God. It was being physically presented to Israel and what Israel rejected in front of Pilate, they could see when their eyes.


Was Jesus works all part of the Kingdom of God or the Kingdom of Heaven?

Refer to posts on page 1.

LA
 

Danoh

New member
He is telling them that they won't recognize the Kingdom of God because they don't know what they are looking for, not that it wasn't something physically visable, Jesus was visible and all the great works done by him and his apostles were all physical and all part of the Kingdom of God. It was being physically presented to Israel and what Israel rejected in front of Pilate, they could see when their eyes.

Of course it was visible; so, yeah.

Acts 1:3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

Acts 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
CS wrote:
not that it wasn't something physically visable

Depends. There wasn't going to be a building like the 2nd temple. there wasn't going to be an altar like the one that stood in front of it. There wasn't going to be nations streaming in with lambs on their shoulders to sacrifice, a logistical nightmare among other things.

But yes, the Christ event was in space and time and was the 'public demonstration of God's justice at this time' Rom 3. He was the final Passover Lamb. There is a living growing Temple in Him made up of all kinds of humanity.
 
Top