The Justification of the Ungodly, Romans 4:5

[Robert Pate]

Misdirection-irrelevant humanism from Pate. You assert that we are justified by "A life of perfect obedience according to his Holy Law" by the Saviour, as this law keeping is imputed.No, satan follower, we are justified by His resurrected life, not his "A life of perfect obedience according to his Holy Law." We are justified apart from the law, devil child, and the Saviour is righteous, apart from the law, and not one scripture asserts the devilish "doctrine" you satanically spam, i.e.,His law
keeping is imputed to the believer-that is a perversion of the gospel of Christ, sloppy Pate.




Sophistry-more straw man. That is slick, Pate. Slower, moron: He did fulfill the law for us, deceiver, but the point of contention is for what reason. You satanically assert/spam that assert that we are justified by "A life of perfect obedience according to his Holy Law" by the Saviour, as this law keeping is imputed.No, satan follower, we are justified by His resurrected life, not his "A life of perfect obedience according to his Holy Law." We are justified apart from the law, devil child, and the Saviour is righteous, apart from the law, and not one scripture asserts the devilish "doctrine" you satanically spam, i.e., His law
keeping is imputed to the believer-that is a perversion of the gospel of Christ, sloppy Pate.

Slower, moron-He fulfilled it for us to be qualified as the satisfactory sacrifice, the lamb w/o spot/blemish-propitiation.


You have been told this time, after time, but deviously keep straw manning.


No scripture says that the law has been abolished, for anyone. It exists for the lost, and it exists for the believer, but believers are not under it. You butcher the meaning of "abolish," deceiver, and assert that we are justified by "A life of perfect obedience according to his Holy Law" by the Saviour, as this law keeping is imputed.No, satan follower, we are justified by His resurrected life, not his "A life of perfect obedience according to his Holy Law." We are justified apart from the law, devil child, and the Saviour is righteous, apart from the law, and not one scripture asserts the devilish "doctrine" you satanically spam, i.e., His law
keeping is imputed to the believer-that is a perversion of the gospel of Christ, sloppy Pate.



Col. 2:14 is not referencing God's holy law being nailed to the cross, you sly devil, as you have been shown. Not being under it, does not mean "abolished," as you deceitfully keep asserting.


You wicked deceiver, engaged in satanism, devilish sophistry, deceit.

So you admit that Jesus fulfilled the law for us. But you don't seem to know why. I will tell you why, he fulfilled it for our justification. You cannot enter heaven unless you have been justified, Jesus justifies the ungodly by doing for the ungodly that which they cannot do for themselves.

Lets look at Colossians 2:14.

"Blotting out the handwriting of the ordinances that was against us".

What do you think that means? The ordinances is the law. It has been done away with for the Christian. The law brings judgment and condemnation. This is why Paul said to the Galatians, "Tell me that you desire to be under the law, DO YOU NOT HEAR THE LAW?" Galatians 4:21.

"Which was contrary to us, and took it out of NAILING IT TO HIS CROSS"

Did you read that John W? The law has been nailed to his cross. The law was contrary to us because no one could do it or keep it, So Jesus abolished the law for us, Ephesians 2:15.

Because you are not able to receive truth it makes me wonder if you have the Holy Spirit who is the teacher of truth, John 16:13.

 

[john w]

So you admit that Jesus fulfilled the law for us. But you don't seem to know why. I will tell you why, he fulfilled it for our justification.

Never denied it, you piece of satanic trash.No, you assert vicarious law keeping, asserting that His fulfilling the law, is imputed to a believer, which is straight from the pits of hell, as we have discussed. Your daddy the devil keeps telling you to assert vicarious law keeping, asserting that His fulfilling the law, is imputed to a believer.,

You cannot enter heaven unless you have been justified, Jesus justifies the ungodly by doing for the ungodly that which they cannot do for themselves.

Agreed, but irrelevant to your satanic vicarious law keeping argument, the "how" according to you, of justification. No, devil child, justification, the righteousness of God, is apart from the law, despite your satanic assertions to the contrary.

Lets look at Colossians 2:14.

"Blotting out the handwriting of the ordinances that was against us".

What do you think that means? The ordinances is the law. It has been done away with for the Christian. The law brings judgment and condemnation. This is why Paul said to the Galatians, "Tell me that you desire to be under the law, DO YOU NOT HEAR THE LAW?" Galatians 4:21.

"Which was contrary to us, and took it out of NAILING IT TO HIS CROSS"

Did you read that John W? The law has been nailed to his cross. The law was contrary to us because no one could do it or keep it, So Jesus abolished the law for us, Ephesians 2:15.

Because you are not able to receive truth it makes me wonder if you have the Holy Spirit who is the teacher of truth, John 16:13.

Already answered, yesterday, and many days,you demon possessed spammer. You don't read many posts, from other members, you deceiver, as you just spam, word fpr word, satanic trash. Answered-post #12:



http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...y-Romans-4-5&p=5182503&highlight=#post5182503


You keep spamming this made up slop, Pate, that Col. 2:13-14 KJV has God's holy laws in view, being nailed to the cross. I, and others, have corrected you on it, over, and over, and yet you keep asserting this satanic "doctrine." One more time, to protect the sheep/babes, from your lies:

What was nailed to the cross is described as “the handwriting of requirements"-that was against us, which was contrary to us.” Because “ordinances” sounds like “law,” some, like sloppy Pate, twist the meaning of “nailed it to the cross” into Paul saying the force of the law of God ended at the death of the Lord Jesus Christ.

The writ of charges...
In using the words “handwriting of requirements … contrary to us … nailed it to the cross,” Paul was describing the record of our sins, the indictment that required the penalty of death.

No, the indictments against believers, the charges against believers, the legal indebtedness against believers – was what was dropped, and nailed to the cross at the Lord Jesus Christ's death, rather than the law itself, which is consistently characterized in Scripture as eternal, and good...To wit:


Romans 7 KJV

12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

“handwriting,”=a memorandum of debt, "a writing by hand" used in public and private contracts.


The wages of our sins—our debt—is death (Romans 6:23). The Lord Jesus Christ was willing to pay that debt by dying in our place, thus blotting out the record of our debt and pardoning our sins.

Survey the "death warrant" against us, because of our sin/sins is the sign that Pilate had nailed to the cross upon which the Lord Jesus Christ was crucified. John 19:19-22 KJV-It was customary to publish a writ of charges against the condemned, and the board above the Lord Jesus Christ's head was inscribed with the charges for which the Jewish authorities demanded His death. Thus, it was a Roman custom, to write the name of the condemned person and his crime on a plaque to be placed above his head at the execution. Survey Mark 15:26 KJV-"superscription of his accusation."

26 And the superscription of his accusation was written over, The King Of The Jews.




The charges removed-the meaning, then, of Colossians 2:13-14 KJV, based upon the immediate and the broader context is: You gentile believers had a death sentence against you due to your sin/sins-here are the charges............... But through the dbr, everything that one time could have been held against you has been removed.

The law against believers? No, it wasn’t God’s law that was against believers; it was the sins that they committed, as defined by that same holy, good law!. "the handwriting of ordinances that was against us,"= anything written by hand, but can more specifically apply to a legal document, bond or note of debt, was against us!!!!

Paul is relaying that the LORD God has "wiped out," removed, "nailed to the cross," through the body of Christ , representing mankind's guilt, the instrument for the remembrance of sin. The legal basis of this instrument was the "binding statutes," Col. 2:14 KJV, but what the LORD God destroyed on the cross was not the legal ground, the law, for our entanglement into sin, but the written record of our sins. By destroying the record of sins, the LORD God removed the possibility of a charge ever being made again against those who have been forgiven-a dead man is not under jurisdiction to the law.

" Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us,"


The above-a handwritten acknowledgement or note of debt, something like an I.O.U. When the debt was paid in full, the handwriting was invalidated by piercing it with something sharp like a nail.

This "handwriting" was also used in the case of the crucifixion or punishment of a criminal. All the charges of which the person had been found guilty, were written on a piece of parchment, and nailed to the cross on which the person convicted of those crimes would be crucified. Everyone could then see why he was hanging there and what he had done to deserve such a cruel punishment.This written indictment/charge/accusation are seen in John 19:19-20: accusations that were hung on the cross, on which the Lord Jesus Christ hung:

19 And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was Jesus Of Nazareth The King Of The Jews.

20 This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin.

The "accusing witness," so to speak, against the sinner, the record book of his sins, the certificate of debt, or book of debt, was removed/nailed. The Lord Jesus Christ has "erased" it, removed it out of the court, out of the witness chair of the accuser. Not only is this record of our sins removed, but it is also "nailed to the cross" in the sense that the Lord Jesus Christ took our sins upon himself, and paid the penalty for them...Survey 2 Cor. 5:21 KJV.


Moreover, pardoning someone for committing a capital crime, doesn’t do away with the law that was broken. If anything, it shows that the law carries force, for without the pardon, the criminal would die!

In the same way, the law of God carries force since breaking it (committing sin) requires the death penalty. The law is that powerful, that important. It is holy. People aren’t saved from that which was against them (the death penalty) by doing away with the law. What saves people from death is the death of the Lord Jesus Christ in the place of those who trust 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV.

In fact, the wording Paul employed Colossians 2:13-14 showed that the law of God continues to carry great force. By saying the penalty demanded under the law of God was nailed to the instrument that killed the Lord Jesus Christ, Paul was showing that the law of God was still in force, still requiring death for sin.

By contrast, if the law had been brought to an abrupt end by the death of the Lord Jesus Christ, from that point on, nothing would be “against the law”-duh! Nothing could be called “sin.” Of course, we know that is not true. Sin exists, which means the law that calls it “sin” also exists!

To be under the law is to be lost and under the judgment of God. This is why Jesus abolished it for believers.

-I never said believers are under the law, you satanic piece of dung, as you keep saying, you lying punk, so knock it off.

-No such thing as "abolished" for believers, you moron. We are not under the law, but the law has not been abolished, idiot, as you pervert the meaning of "abolish." from the bible. No scripture says that the law was abolished-for anyone.


Tell us how believers can be charged with the sin of rape, Pate, if the law was abolished for them. Go ahead.

And notice I said "charged," Pate, not convicted, to anticipate your convoluted answer.

If there is no law against rape, how can a believer, be charged with the sin/crime?

 

[beloved57]

"But to him that does no works, but believes on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5.

Who are the ungodly? If you are a human being born after Adam you are the ungodly, Romans 5:12.

How does Jesus justify the ungodly? Justification is not something that happens within the believer. Justification takes place totally and completely outside of the believer. All that is required of us is that we have faith in the doing and the dying of Jesus.

When were we justified? We were justified by Jesus Christ over 2000 years ago. After we were justified we were also reconciled to God, 2 Corinthians 5:18. Justification and reconciliation go hand in hand. No one can be reconciled to God without first being justified.

Justification is a legal word that is frequently used in a court of law. The word justify means to be made right or vindicated. To be declared guiltless. To be absolved from sin. I have heard it described as "just as though I had never sinned" But we know that all have sinned, Romans 3:23.

This act of being justified is ours by simple child like faith. There is no works or obedience required. Paul wrote,

"What shall we say then that Abraham our father as pertaining to the flesh, has found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he has whereof to glory: but not before God. For what does the scripture say? ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS COUNTED UNTO HIM FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS" Romans 4:1-3.

In the New Testament faith, not works or obedience counts for righteousness. This is very difficult for people that are religious to understand.

Jesus does the work of justifying the ungodly. In our name and on our behalf, Jesus offers to God the Father a life of perfect obedience according to his Holy Law, Matthew 5:18. It is this life that was lived for our justification, Romans 3:26. That was not enough. In our name and on our behalf Jesus, who knew no sin, became sin for us that we might be made the righteousness of God in him, 2 Corinthians 5:21.

God sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ. Jesus's acceptance into heaven is our acceptance, we are accepted in him. In Jesus Christ we have been justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30. We now stand before God's holy court as perfect and complete in Jesus Christ, Colossians 2:10. Fully and completely justified. No religion was needed.

You teach sinners Christ died for are still lost !

 

[Robert Pate]

Never denied it, you piece of satanic trash.No, you assert vicarious law keeping, asserting that His fulfilling the law, is imputed to a believer, which is straight from the pits of hell, as we have discussed. Your daddy the devil keeps telling you to assert vicarious law keeping, asserting that His fulfilling the law, is imputed to a believer.,


Agreed, but irrelevant to your satanic vicarious law keeping argument, the "how" according to you, of justification. No, devil child, justification, the righteousness of God, is apart from the law, despite your satanic assertions to the contrary.



Already answered, yesterday, and many days,you demon possessed spammer. You don't read many posts, from other members, you deceiver, as you just spam, word fpr word, satanic trash. Answered-post #12:



http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...y-Romans-4-5&p=5182503&highlight=#post5182503


You keep spamming this made up slop, Pate, that Col. 2:13-14 KJV has God's holy laws in view, being nailed to the cross. I, and others, have corrected you on it, over, and over, and yet you keep asserting this satanic "doctrine." One more time, to protect the sheep/babes, from your lies:

What was nailed to the cross is described as “the handwriting of requirements"-that was against us, which was contrary to us.” Because “ordinances” sounds like “law,” some, like sloppy Pate, twist the meaning of “nailed it to the cross” into Paul saying the force of the law of God ended at the death of the Lord Jesus Christ.

The writ of charges...
In using the words “handwriting of requirements … contrary to us … nailed it to the cross,” Paul was describing the record of our sins, the indictment that required the penalty of death.

No, the indictments against believers, the charges against believers, the legal indebtedness against believers – was what was dropped, and nailed to the cross at the Lord Jesus Christ's death, rather than the law itself, which is consistently characterized in Scripture as eternal, and good...To wit:


Romans 7 KJV

12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

“handwriting,”=a memorandum of debt, "a writing by hand" used in public and private contracts.


The wages of our sins—our debt—is death (Romans 6:23). The Lord Jesus Christ was willing to pay that debt by dying in our place, thus blotting out the record of our debt and pardoning our sins.

Survey the "death warrant" against us, because of our sin/sins is the sign that Pilate had nailed to the cross upon which the Lord Jesus Christ was crucified. John 19:19-22 KJV-It was customary to publish a writ of charges against the condemned, and the board above the Lord Jesus Christ's head was inscribed with the charges for which the Jewish authorities demanded His death. Thus, it was a Roman custom, to write the name of the condemned person and his crime on a plaque to be placed above his head at the execution. Survey Mark 15:26 KJV-"superscription of his accusation."

26 And the superscription of his accusation was written over, The King Of The Jews.




The charges removed-the meaning, then, of Colossians 2:13-14 KJV, based upon the immediate and the broader context is: You gentile believers had a death sentence against you due to your sin/sins-here are the charges............... But through the dbr, everything that one time could have been held against you has been removed.

The law against believers? No, it wasn’t God’s law that was against believers; it was the sins that they committed, as defined by that same holy, good law!. "the handwriting of ordinances that was against us,"= anything written by hand, but can more specifically apply to a legal document, bond or note of debt, was against us!!!!

Paul is relaying that the LORD God has "wiped out," removed, "nailed to the cross," through the body of Christ , representing mankind's guilt, the instrument for the remembrance of sin. The legal basis of this instrument was the "binding statutes," Col. 2:14 KJV, but what the LORD God destroyed on the cross was not the legal ground, the law, for our entanglement into sin, but the written record of our sins. By destroying the record of sins, the LORD God removed the possibility of a charge ever being made again against those who have been forgiven-a dead man is not under jurisdiction to the law.

" Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us,"


The above-a handwritten acknowledgement or note of debt, something like an I.O.U. When the debt was paid in full, the handwriting was invalidated by piercing it with something sharp like a nail.

This "handwriting" was also used in the case of the crucifixion or punishment of a criminal. All the charges of which the person had been found guilty, were written on a piece of parchment, and nailed to the cross on which the person convicted of those crimes would be crucified. Everyone could then see why he was hanging there and what he had done to deserve such a cruel punishment.This written indictment/charge/accusation are seen in John 19:19-20: accusations that were hung on the cross, on which the Lord Jesus Christ hung:

19 And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was Jesus Of Nazareth The King Of The Jews.

20 This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin.

The "accusing witness," so to speak, against the sinner, the record book of his sins, the certificate of debt, or book of debt, was removed/nailed. The Lord Jesus Christ has "erased" it, removed it out of the court, out of the witness chair of the accuser. Not only is this record of our sins removed, but it is also "nailed to the cross" in the sense that the Lord Jesus Christ took our sins upon himself, and paid the penalty for them...Survey 2 Cor. 5:21 KJV.


Moreover, pardoning someone for committing a capital crime, doesn’t do away with the law that was broken. If anything, it shows that the law carries force, for without the pardon, the criminal would die!

In the same way, the law of God carries force since breaking it (committing sin) requires the death penalty. The law is that powerful, that important. It is holy. People aren’t saved from that which was against them (the death penalty) by doing away with the law. What saves people from death is the death of the Lord Jesus Christ in the place of those who trust 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV.

In fact, the wording Paul employed Colossians 2:13-14 showed that the law of God continues to carry great force. By saying the penalty demanded under the law of God was nailed to the instrument that killed the Lord Jesus Christ, Paul was showing that the law of God was still in force, still requiring death for sin.

By contrast, if the law had been brought to an abrupt end by the death of the Lord Jesus Christ, from that point on, nothing would be “against the law”-duh! Nothing could be called “sin.” Of course, we know that is not true. Sin exists, which means the law that calls it “sin” also exists!




-I never said believers are under the law, you satanic piece of dung, as you keep saying, you lying punk, so knock it off.

-No such thing as "abolished" for believers, you moron. We are not under the law, but the law has not been abolished, idiot, as you pervert the meaning of "abolish." from the bible. No scripture says that the law was abolished-for anyone.


Tell us how believers can be charged with the sin of rape, Pate, if the law was abolished for them. Go ahead.

And notice I said "charged," Pate, not convicted, to anticipate your convoluted answer.

If there is no law against rape, how can a believer, be charged with the sin/crime?

You are in conflict with God's word.

Ephesians 2:15 clearly says that the law is abolished.

"Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, EVEN THE LAW OF COMMANDMENTS contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace".

You are so spiritually dead that you are not able to receive the truth of the scriptures. The law was abolished for the Christian simply because where there is law there is judgment and condemnation.

Here is another scripture that you are not able to believe.

"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances (the law) that was against us, which was contrary to us and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross" Colossians 2:14.

Your rant is not with me, your rant is with God's word, the Bible. You think nothing of calling Paul a pervert and a liar. You have no scripture to refute these scriptures, the reason is because there are not any. Why should we believe you when you have nothing to prove your point.

God sees Christians as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. They are not under the law because the law has been abolished.

 

[john w]

You are in conflict with God's word.

No, you are, you deceiver, as you hate the word of God, God's holy law, as you satanically assert that it was abolished. No scripture says that, you devil child, and your satanic "vicarious law keeping" is a perversion of the gospel of Christ, as you assert that keeping the law, via imputation, is justification.

Ephesians 2:15 clearly says that the law is abolished.

"Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, EVEN THE LAW OF COMMANDMENTS contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace".

No it does not "clearly" say that the law was abolished-you received that interpretation from your daddy, the devil, not the LORD God, and, you, on record, assert that Pentecost, Passover.....all the feasts, are not part of the law, and that the early Acts believers, the 12, Paul, in the "post cross" period, are all in hell, as they all observed the law, which, according to you, did not exist after the cross-it was abolished. Satanic.

You've been answered, over, and over, by me/others, non both the Ephesians and Colossians passages, pawn of Satan, but your daddy the devil keeps telling you to spam a satanic assertion that these passages are referring to God'holy law-they are not, despite you mimicking your daddy devil.

One more time, to protect the babes/sheep, from this wolf Pate, in sheep's clothing....


Re.
KJV Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;



Survey Hebrews 7:15-16 KJV And it is yet far more evident if, according to the likeness of Melchisedec there arises another priest,Who is made, not according to the law of a carnal commandment, but according to the power of an endless life.



Survey Hebrews 9:9-10 KJV Which was symbolic for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him who did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;

Which stood only in meat and drink offerings, and various washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed until the time of reformation.





God's law is not carnal,....the problem is with man....To wit, Paul...



You lied, Pate-again. And "the handwriting of ordinances" is not the law, as I expounded previously, more than 5 timers, as have others, idiot-you lied, or are just stupid.



"the handwriting of ordinances" is not equivalent to the law. Paul was referring to the sin debt, the "certificate of debt," the "charge against the accused,".....That, was nailed to the cross, as the custom, at that time, when one was crucified, was to post/nail the charges, against the accused, on said cross. Back then, a bond debt/certificate of debt, was cancelled, by being nailed to a post.



This "dogma"/"ordinances, was a document written in one's own hand as legal proof of indebtedness, i.e., a bond of indebtedness; a note of debt.





“handwriting”-“a note of hand, or writing, in which one acknowledges that money has either been deposited with him/her, or lent to him by another, to be returned at an appointed time.”



And then later it came to refer to any acknowledgment of debt. Get it? Sin debt. That is the meaning of the word “handwriting”-an acknowledgement of debt.



It refers to anything written with the hand, a bond, note of hand, it signifies a sort of note under a man’s hand, whereby he obliges himself to the payment of any debt. In other words, a note of debt or a note of guilt.





The record that contained the charges, was nailed to the cross-canceled. Not the law. The charges were against us....The certified copy of an execution order, which was against, was nailed to the cross.



'"the handwriting of ordinances" is not the law, so stop scamming people on TOL, driving them away from Christ. And Paul's point-that debt was against us, or "notice of execution," not the law, as it is good, and holy, and just, and good.......



The handwriting of ordinances is not the law. Get your facts straight-sloppy. The charge against us, written order of a death sentence, "the handwriting of ordinances" is not the law, as you assert, biblically illiterate one. You changed the scripture. "the handwriting of ordinances" is a reference to the sin debt,"note of debt," the "notice of indebtedness," "the charge," the notice of the, so to speak, "certified copy of an execution order," being nailed to the cross-not the law, itself.________

Romans 7 KJV



7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.



8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.



9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

10 the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.



11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.



12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.


13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.



14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.







The Lord Jesus Christ nailed to the cross what was contrary to him...



Ephesians 2:15 KJV "the law of commandments contained in ordinances;"

Colossians 2:14 KJV "the handwriting of ordinances"

Hebrews 7:16 KJV "the law of a carnal commandment"

Hebrews 9:10 KJV "carnal ordinances;"



What the Lord Jesus Christ abolished was carnal/fleshly commandments and ordinances, and hand written ordinances=that is the context..= the decrees of exclusion established by men, which were rooted in enmity between Jew & Gentile,such as “touch not, taste not, handle not”(survey Colossians 2:21 KJV), man-made social class/caste system set in place by Oral Torah, and Jewish leaders, attempting to keep a social and religious difference between Jews and Gentiles. Ordinances/decrees were laws that were man-made. Paul was referring to man-made orders, in this verse through the term “ordinance”. These “ordinances” were, yes, indeed hostile/”hate”/”enmity”, as they restrained anyone other than “Jews” worshiping God. These ordinances made a clear separation between Jew and Gentile, by elevating one above the other, to an “elite status,” to the extent where gentiles were looked down upon, scorned, and disassociated, by Jews everywhere………..

You are so spiritually dead that you are not able to receive the truth of the scriptures.

Funny, Pate! A child of the devil, pawn of satan, judging me. Can't be done, wolf, as you do not have the authority, clout, to condemn me, a forever justified saint, having the righteousness of God, in Christ, apart from the law, in contrast to your satanic "doctrine" that believers are justified by imputed, vicarious law keeping.

The law was abolished for the Christian simply because where there is law there is judgment and condemnation.

No, it was not. No such thing as employing the term "abolished for the Christian, and "un abolished " for the lost, as you, in your sloppiness, your MO on TOL, mangle/butcher the meaning of "abolish." There is not one scripture that asserts, or even implies, that God's holy law was "abolished," does not exist, any more, as you satanically proclaim. Your daddy devil taught you that-not the book. Believers not being "under the law," not having it as a "rule of life," not being under its reign/jurisdiction, not being under its judgment, does not mean that it has been abolished, deceiver.

Here is another scripture that you are not able to believe.

"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances (the law) that was against us, which was contrary to us and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross" Colossians 2:14.

Already addressed, wolf, and your assertion, from your daddy devil, that this refers to God's holy law, is satanic, from the pits of hell.

Your rant is not with me, your rant is with God's word, the Bible.

Stumped me there, devil child.

Your rant is not with me, your rant is with God's word, the Bible.

See how that works? No, my rant is with you, and your daddy, the devil, for perverting the LORD God's word, corrupting it, and the purity, of both it, and the gospel of Christ.

You think nothing of calling Paul a pervert and a liar.

No, I call you, and you're daddy perverts, deceiver, as I expound exactly what Paul preached, on this issue. You call Paul, the Lord Jesus Christ, a pervert, and a liar. So there, spammer.

And I am instructed, by the LORD god, to mark/expose/identify/rebuke wolves, perverters of the gospel of Christ, such as yourself.

Poor wolf Pate.

You have no scripture to refute these scriptures, the reason is because there are not any.

Made up. Spam. satanic cry...I gave you chapter, verse, in which to soak your satanic head, but due to your daddy devil being inside you, you speaking for him, you are in the 2 Cor. 4:4 KJV, 1 Cor. 2:14 state.

Wolf.

Why should we believe you when you have nothing to prove your point.

God sees Christians as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. They are not under the law because the law has been abolished.

Quite beside the point-you assert believers are perfect, "In Christ," through keeping the law=satanic.


Get off this site, wolf.

 

[Robert Pate]

John W

You have a problem with the scriptures John. You read, but you can't believe what the scripture is saying. Which leads me to believe that you don't have the Holy Spirit, who is the teacher of truth.
Let's try again. This time I will use the New American Standard version.

"By abolishing in his flesh the enmity, WHICH IS THE LAW OF COMMANDMENTS contained in the ordinances, that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus making peace" Ephesians 2:15.

There, did that help you to see that the law has been abolished? All that we have to go by is the scriptures. If you don't believe the scriptures there is not much hope for you.

Here is the scripture that says Jesus fulfilled the law, again I will use the American Standard version.

"For truly I say unto you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the law, until all is accomplished" Matthew 5:18.

Now we know that Jesus did not fulfill the law for himself, simply because he was God's law incarnate in human flesh. Then we must believe that Jesus fulfilled the law for us, who are believers,

Jesus fulfilled the law and then abolished it, so that we can live by faith and not by the letter of the law, because the letter (law) kills but the Spirit gives life, 2 Corinthians 3:6.

Pray and ask the Lord to help you understand what these scriptures are saying.

 

[john w]

John W

You have a problem with the scriptures John. You read, but you can't believe what the scripture is saying. Which leads me to believe that you don't have the Holy Spirit, who is the teacher of truth.
Let's try again.

You have a problem with the scriptures, wolf Pate. You read, but you can't believe what the scripture is saying. Which leads me to believe that you don't have the Holy Spirit, who is the teacher of truth.

Let's try again.


See how that works?


No, you are, you deceiver, as you hate the word of God, God's holy law, as you satanically assert that it was abolished. No scripture says that, you devil child, and your satanic "vicarious law keeping" is a perversion of the gospel of Christ, as you assert that keeping the law, via imputation, is justification.

Ephesians 2:15 clearly says that the law is abolished.

"Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, EVEN THE LAW OF COMMANDMENTS contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace".

No it does not "clearly" say that the law was abolished-you received that interpretation from your daddy, the devil, not the LORD God, and, you, on record, assert that Pentecost, Passover.....all the feasts, are not part of the law, and that the early Acts believers, the 12, Paul, in the "post cross" period, are all in hell, as they all observed the law, which, according to you, did not exist after the cross-it was abolished. Satanic.

You've been answered, over, and over, by me/others, non both the Ephesians and Colossians passages, pawn of Satan, but your daddy the devil keeps telling you to spam a satanic assertion that these passages are referring to God'holy law-they are not, despite you mimicking your daddy devil.

One more time, to protect the babes/sheep, from this wolf Pate, in sheep's clothing....


Re.
KJV Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;



Survey Hebrews 7:15-16 KJV And it is yet far more evident if, according to the likeness of Melchisedec there arises another priest,Who is made, not according to the law of a carnal commandment, but according to the power of an endless life.



Survey Hebrews 9:9-10 KJV Which was symbolic for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him who did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;

Which stood only in meat and drink offerings, and various washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed until the time of reformation.





God's law is not carnal,....the problem is with man....To wit, Paul...



You lied, Pate-again. And "the handwriting of ordinances" is not the law, as I expounded previously, more than 5 timers, as have others, idiot-you lied, or are just stupid.



"the handwriting of ordinances" is not equivalent to the law. Paul was referring to the sin debt, the "certificate of debt," the "charge against the accused,".....That, was nailed to the cross, as the custom, at that time, when one was crucified, was to post/nail the charges, against the accused, on said cross. Back then, a bond debt/certificate of debt, was cancelled, by being nailed to a post.



This "dogma"/"ordinances, was a document written in one's own hand as legal proof of indebtedness, i.e., a bond of indebtedness; a note of debt.





“handwriting”-“a note of hand, or writing, in which one acknowledges that money has either been deposited with him/her, or lent to him by another, to be returned at an appointed time.”



And then later it came to refer to any acknowledgment of debt. Get it? Sin debt. That is the meaning of the word “handwriting”-an acknowledgement of debt.



It refers to anything written with the hand, a bond, note of hand, it signifies a sort of note under a man’s hand, whereby he obliges himself to the payment of any debt. In other words, a note of debt or a note of guilt.





The record that contained the charges, was nailed to the cross-canceled. Not the law. The charges were against us....The certified copy of an execution order, which was against, was nailed to the cross.



'"the handwriting of ordinances" is not the law, so stop scamming people on TOL, driving them away from Christ. And Paul's point-that debt was against us, or "notice of execution," not the law, as it is good, and holy, and just, and good.......



The handwriting of ordinances is not the law. Get your facts straight-sloppy. The charge against us, written order of a death sentence, "the handwriting of ordinances" is not the law, as you assert, biblically illiterate one. You changed the scripture. "the handwriting of ordinances" is a reference to the sin debt,"note of debt," the "notice of indebtedness," "the charge," the notice of the, so to speak, "certified copy of an execution order," being nailed to the cross-not the law, itself.________

Romans 7 KJV



7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.



8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.



9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

10 the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.



11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.



12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.


13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.



14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.







The Lord Jesus Christ nailed to the cross what was contrary to him...



Ephesians 2:15 KJV "the law of commandments contained in ordinances;"

Colossians 2:14 KJV "the handwriting of ordinances"

Hebrews 7:16 KJV "the law of a carnal commandment"

Hebrews 9:10 KJV "carnal ordinances;"



What the Lord Jesus Christ abolished was carnal/fleshly commandments and ordinances, and hand written ordinances=that is the context..= the decrees of exclusion established by men, which were rooted in enmity between Jew & Gentile,such as “touch not, taste not, handle not”(survey Colossians 2:21 KJV), man-made social class/caste system set in place by Oral Torah, and Jewish leaders, attempting to keep a social and religious difference between Jews and Gentiles. Ordinances/decrees were laws that were man-made. Paul was referring to man-made orders, in this verse through the term “ordinance”. These “ordinances” were, yes, indeed hostile/”hate”/”enmity”, as they restrained anyone other than “Jews” worshiping God. These ordinances made a clear separation between Jew and Gentile, by elevating one above the other, to an “elite status,” to the extent where gentiles were looked down upon, scorned, and disassociated, by Jews everywhere………..

You are so spiritually dead that you are not able to receive the truth of the scriptures.

Funny, Pate! A child of the devil, pawn of satan, judging me. Can't be done, wolf, as you do not have the authority, clout, to condemn me, a forever justified saint, having the righteousness of God, in Christ, apart from the law, in contrast to your satanic "doctrine" that believers are justified by imputed, vicarious law keeping.

The law was abolished for the Christian simply because where there is law there is judgment and condemnation.

No, it was not. No such thing as employing the term "abolished for the Christian, and "un abolished " for the lost, as you, in your sloppiness, your MO on TOL, mangle/butcher the meaning of "abolish." There is not one scripture that asserts, or even implies, that God's holy law was "abolished," does not exist, any more, as you satanically proclaim. Your daddy devil taught you that-not the book. Believers not being "under the law," not having it as a "rule of life," not being under its reign/jurisdiction, not being under its judgment, does not mean that it has been abolished, deceiver.

Here is another scripture that you are not able to believe.

"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances (the law) that was against us, which was contrary to us and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross" Colossians 2:14.

Already addressed, wolf, and your assertion, from your daddy devil, that this refers to God's holy law, is satanic, from the pits of hell.

Your rant is not with me, your rant is with God's word, the Bible.

Stumped me there, devil child.

Your rant is not with me, your rant is with God's word, the Bible.

See how that works? No, my rant is with you, and your daddy, the devil, for perverting the LORD God's word, corrupting it, and the purity, of both it, and the gospel of Christ.

You think nothing of calling Paul a pervert and a liar.

No, I call you, and you're daddy perverts, deceiver, as I expound exactly what Paul preached, on this issue. You call Paul, the Lord Jesus Christ, a pervert, and a liar. So there, spammer.

And I am instructed, by the LORD god, to mark/expose/identify/rebuke wolves, perverters of the gospel of Christ, such as yourself.

Poor wolf Pate.

You have no scripture to refute these scriptures, the reason is because there are not any.

Made up. Spam. satanic cry...I gave you chapter, verse, in which to soak your satanic head, but due to your daddy devil being inside you, you speaking for him, you are in the 2 Cor. 4:4 KJV, 1 Cor. 2:14 state.

Wolf.

Why should we believe you when you have nothing to prove your point.

God sees Christians as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. They are not under the law because the law has been abolished.

Quite beside the point-you assert believers are perfect, "In Christ," through keeping the law=satanic.


Get off this site, wolf.


See how that works, spammer for the devil?

This time I will use the New American Standard version.

Translation: I, sloppy Pate, will find a version that agrees with my "doctrine," as my "doctrine" determines what the word of God is, and what it should say.If a particular version does not agree with me, I will alter it, delete/diminish it, corrupt, redefine biblical words, or find a version that agrees with me.


Your daddy the devil taught you that way back in Genesis 1, and is patting you on the back, high fiving you.


More satanic deception from Pate.

"By abolishing in his flesh the enmity, WHICH IS THE LAW OF COMMANDMENTS contained in the ordinances, that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus making peace" Ephesians 2:15.

There, did that help you to see that the law has been abolished? All that we have to go by is the scriptures. If you don't believe the scriptures there is not much hope for you.

Word for word, spam, from your daddy, the devil. That is not a reference to God's holy law, you satanic pawn, devil child, as you've been shown. But your daddy keeps telling you to insist it is=satanism

Here is the scripture that says Jesus fulfilled the law, again I will use the American Standard version.

"For truly I say unto you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the law, until all is accomplished" Matthew 5:18.

And? Fulfilled, not abolished, you vile, wicked deceiver.
Matthew 5 KJV
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Now we know that Jesus did not fulfill the law for himself, simply because he was God's law incarnate in human flesh. Then we must believe that Jesus fulfilled the law for us, who are believers,

We went over this, deceiving demon, but your daddy tells you to keep spamming it. I/others have shown you, devil child, that He fulfilled it for us, but not for the satanic reason you keep spamming, i.e., so that His law keeping is vicariously imupted to us for justification.

He fulfilled the law, for us, to be qualified to be the satisfactory sacrifice, the lamb w/o spot/blemish, Pate.

You've been shown, explained this, but your daddy devil keeps telling you to deny it.

Jesus fulfilled the law and then abolished it,

No, he did not-your daddy devil taught you that satanic assertion.


Tell us, Pate, as I've asked you over 10 times:

-Is Pentecost, the feasts, part of the law?
-Explain why/who taught the 12, the early Acts believers, Paul, to observe the law, including the feasts, "post cross," if the law was abolished, at the crossr?


Go ahead, Pate.


Pate won't touch this, as his daddy has a gag order on him

Pray and ask the Lord to help you understand what these scriptures are saying.

I'd tell you the same, but the LORD God does not hear the prayers of perverters of the gospel of Christ, wolves, such as you.

 

[Robert Pate]

John you are a hopeless case. You read the scripture, but you cannot accept what it is saying. It appears to me that you are spiritually blind, much like the Pharisees. Paul gave you and the Galatians a warning when he said... "Tell me that you desire to be under the law, DO YOU NOT HEAR THE LAW?" Galatians 4:21. You apparently desire to be under the law. In the judgment you will be judged by the law and condemned.

I don't want any part of the law. I say, thank God that it has been fulfilled and abolished. The law which is the very nature and character of God will damn you to hell. I want to be found "In Christ" in the judgment. Paul said that, "There is no condemnation to those that are "In Christ" Romans 8:1. I am through talking to you John W. You appears to be a hopeless case, I am going to put you back on ignore.

 

[john w]

John you are a hopeless case. You read the scripture, but you cannot accept what it is saying.

Sloppy, Pate,you are a hopeless case, a child of the devil, a satanic pawn, and accuser.
You read the scripture, but you cannot accept what it is saying.


See how that works, pawn of Satan?

It appears to me that you are spiritually blind, much like the Pharisees. ]

It appears to me that you are spiritually blind, much like the Pharisees.


See how that works, Pate? And you spam that copy'npaste,word for word, to everyone that disagrees with your devil "inspired" assertions.

Paul gave you and the Galatians a warning when he said... "Tell me that you desire to be under the law,DO YOU NOT HEAR THE LAW?" Galatians 4:21. You apparently desire to be under the law. In the judgment you will be judged by the law and condemned.

Shut your satanic, straw manning mouth, you vile satanic accuser, as I never ever asserted that believers are under the authority/jurisdiction/rule of life of the law, or its authority/judgment-I testified to what scriptures testifies, i.e., that it was not abolished, which you satanically spam, from your father, the devil, as you butcher the meaning of "abolish."

I don't want any part of the law.

Irrelevant...red herring...straw man, you deceiver. Neither do I, so shut your lying mouth.

I say, thank God that it has been fulfilled and abolished.

No scripture says it was abolished at the cross.


Notice, as I predicted, Pate won't touch this, as I've asked him, over, and over:

-Is Pentecost, the feasts, part of the law?
-Explain why/who taught the 12, the early Acts believers, Paul, to observe the law, including the feasts, "post cross," if the law was abolished, at the cross?


Go ahead, Pate.

Pate won't touch this, as his daddy has a gag order on him.

The law which is the very nature and character of God will damn you to hell.

Agreed. And? That does not mean that God's holy law has been abolished, you deceiving punk.

I want to be found "In Christ" in the judgment. Paul said that, "There is no condemnation to those that are "In Christ" Romans 8:1. I am through talking to you John W. You appears to be a hopeless case, I am going to put you back on ignore.

And? Irrelevant. You assert that believers are put in Christ through vicarious law keeping, the law keeping of the Saviour being imputed to us-straight from the pits of hell. You assert that law keeping justifies-on record. You talk like a CalvinistReformer/Catholic-they talk like you.

[/B] I am through talking to you John W. You appears to be a hopeless case, I am going to put you back on ignore.

No, you're not. You've said that 5 times, to me, in the last week, but keep coming back for more pounding, getting picked apart, by me, on orders from your daddy devil.

 

[john w]

I am through talking to you John W. You appears to be a hopeless case, I am going to put you back on ignore.

Nice, Pate, avoiding this question....Notice, as I predicted, Pate won't touch this, as I've asked him, over, and over:

-Is Pentecost, the feasts, part of the law?
-Explain why,and who taught the 12, the early Acts believers, Paul, to observe the law, including the feasts, "post cross," if the law was abolished, at the cross?


Go ahead, Pate.

 

[Robert Pate]

Are you a Jehovah Witness John W.?

 

[john w]

Are you a Jehovah Witness John W.?

How long have you been a combo Calvinist Reformer Catholic, Pate?


To what law were you being obedient(your words), when you were water baptized, you who asserts believers are justified by the law? 5th time I've asked, Pate. What's the problem?

Are you also a church of Christer, with your water baptism jazz? Catholics assert water baptism, also, Pate.


Cannot ignore me, eh, Pate?

 

[clefty]

You don't have the Spirit of a Christian and it appears that you are trying to separate that wonderful sinless life that was lived in our name and on our behalf from us.

Jesus justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5. He justifies the ungodly by doing for the ungodly what the ungodly cannot do for themselves because they are sinners.

God requires two things for the salvation of a sinner.

1. A life of perfect obedience according to his Holy Law.

2. A perfect sacrifice for his sins and the sins of the whole world.

Jesus has victoriously met both of these requirements in our name and on our behalf. Its called justification. You must be justified by the life and the death of Christ or you will perish.

To reject his life for your salvation is to reject him. This leads me to believe that you are NOT a Christian.

We are as much saved by his life as we are saved by his death. We need to be delivered from the law. Jesus fulfilled the law and abolished it, Ephesians 2:15 and he did that for us, for our justification.

wow the bolded part...really? “Go and sin no more” is an impossibility? Why instructed then?

You cant stop from killing people? Adultury? Stealing? Lying? (Obviously)

How about eating worms...you cant stop eating worms?

 

[Robert Pate]

wow the bolded part...really? “Go and sin no more” is an impossibility? Why instructed then?

You cant stop from killing people? Adultury? Stealing? Lying? (Obviously)

How about eating worms...you cant stop eating worms?

Jesus taught the law to show you that you don't measure up to God's standards. This is why Paul said that the law is not for the righteous man, but for sinners, 1 Timothy 1:9,10. If you need to be told what to do you must be one of those in 1 Timothy 1:9, 10.

 

[clefty]

Jesus taught the law to show you that you don't measure up to God's standards. This is why Paul said that the law is not for the righteous man, but for sinners, 1 Timothy 1:9,10. If you need to be told what to do you must be one of those in 1 Timothy 1:9, 10.

Interesting...to show you dont measure up to God’s standards...so He loved when you were a sinner and then when you were in Him you are shown you dont measure up...and that is Why Paul says it was for sinners...who well...He loved...

Funny...I thought Jesus taugh the law to show how to abide in His Love and do as He did to glorify His Father who wills we obey Him His Way...as His Son demonstrated for us to do as He did...to follow Him...

 

[turbosixx]

"But to him that does no works, but believes on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5.

Who are the ungodly? If you are a human being born after Adam you are the ungodly, Romans 5:12.

How does Jesus justify the ungodly? Justification is not something that happens within the believer. Justification takes place totally and completely outside of the believer. All that is required of us is that we have faith in the doing and the dying of Jesus.

When were we justified? We were justified by Jesus Christ over 2000 years ago. After we were justified we were also reconciled to God, 2 Corinthians 5:18. Justification and reconciliation go hand in hand. No one can be reconciled to God without first being justified.

Justification is a legal word that is frequently used in a court of law. The word justify means to be made right or vindicated. To be declared guiltless. To be absolved from sin. I have heard it described as "just as though I had never sinned" But we know that all have sinned, Romans 3:23.

This act of being justified is ours by simple child like faith. There is no works or obedience required. Paul wrote,

"What shall we say then that Abraham our father as pertaining to the flesh, has found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he has whereof to glory: but not before God. For what does the scripture say? ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS COUNTED UNTO HIM FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS" Romans 4:1-3.

In the New Testament faith, not works or obedience counts for righteousness. This is very difficult for people that are religious to understand.

Jesus does the work of justifying the ungodly. In our name and on our behalf, Jesus offers to God the Father a life of perfect obedience according to his Holy Law, Matthew 5:18. It is this life that was lived for our justification, Romans 3:26. That was not enough. In our name and on our behalf Jesus, who knew no sin, became sin for us that we might be made the righteousness of God in him, 2 Corinthians 5:21.

God sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ. Jesus's acceptance into heaven is our acceptance, we are accepted in him. In Jesus Christ we have been justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30. We now stand before God's holy court as perfect and complete in Jesus Christ, Colossians 2:10. Fully and completely justified. No religion was needed.

What works is Paul talking about in the context?

 

[Robert Pate]

What works is Paul talking about in the context?

Anything that we do to try and please God is a work of the law. The reason that works and obedience counts for nothing in the New Testament is because God does not accept the works or the obedience of sinners, of which we are all one of. The only thing that God acknowledges is faith in his Son Jesus Christ. I think that is what Paul is saying.

 

[turbosixx]

Anything that we do to try and please God is a work of the law.

Paul is not talking about anything we do, he's talking about a specific set of works. That's his whole argument. We are not under the specific set of works he's talking about.

 

[beloved57]

Anything that we do to try and please God is a work of the law. The reason that works and obedience counts for nothing in the New Testament is because God does not accept the works or the obedience of sinners, of which we are all one of. The only thing that God acknowledges is faith in his Son Jesus Christ. I think that is what Paul is saying.

Then why do you teach that sinners Christ lived and died for are still lost and condemned until they do something?

 

[Robert Pate]

Paul is not talking about anything we do, he's talking about a specific set of works. That's his whole argument. We are not under the specific set of works he's talking about.

No specific works. All works are a work of the law. The only thing that counts for anything in the New Testament is faith, mainly faith in Christ and his Gospel.