The Joys of Catholicism

[JudgeRightly]

We don't worship her any more than anybody Christian would worship any other monarch

Christians don't venerate monarchs. Neither should they worship Mary.

she's above all other monarchs

Where is this in the Bible? (hint: it's not!)

You don't have to remind a Catholic of that. We know that.

Clearly I do, because it seems you place too much value on the ark, and not enough value on the One whom it represents!

We also know that the ark of the Old Covenant was important, and the ark of the New—is a lady. And she's a very important lady, take all the importance of the old ark, and infuse it into her, and then add on to that, that she's a person, a human being.

The ark was only important insofar as it symbolized the presence of God. Its importance is derivative, not intrinsic.

The focus is on God, not the vessel.

Catholics focus on the vessel, rather than God. The ark itself was never intended to be worshipped or venerated, and in fact, when Israel superstitiously exalted the ark, God allowed it to be captured in judgement.

And when the people had come into the camp, the elders of Israel said, “Why has the Lord defeated us today before the Philistines? Let us bring the ark of the covenant of the Lord from Shiloh to us, that when it comes among us it may save us from the hand of our enemies.” . . . And when the ark of the covenant of the Lord came into the camp, all Israel shouted so loudly that the earth shook. Now when the Philistines heard the noise of the shout, they said, “What does the sound of this great shout in the camp of the Hebrews mean?” Then they understood that the ark of the Lord had come into the camp. So the Philistines were afraid, for they said, “God has come into the camp!” And they said, “Woe to us! For such a thing has never happened before. Woe to us! Who will deliver us from the hand of these mighty gods? These are the gods who struck the Egyptians with all the plagues in the wilderness. Be strong and conduct yourselves like men, you Philistines, that you do not become servants of the Hebrews, as they have been to you. Conduct yourselves like men, and fight!” So the Philistines fought, and Israel was defeated, and every man fled to his tent. There was a very great slaughter, and there fell of Israel thirty thousand foot soldiers. Also the ark of God was captured; and the two sons of Eli, Hophni and Phinehas, died.

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Samuel 4:3, 1 Samuel 4:5-11 - New King James Version

And when the people had come into the camp, the elders of Israel said, “Why has the Lord defeated us today before the Philistines? Let us bring the ark of the covenant of the Lord from Shiloh to us, that when it comes among us it may save us from the hand of our enemies.”

www.biblegateway.com

Mary was blessed because Christ was within her, not because of any inherent worthiness ("worship" etymology) to elevate mary as the Catholics do is to commit the same error as Israel.

Sacrifices were made BEFORE the ark, but never TO the ark. Prayers were always made to God. Praying to Mary (ark typology) does not line up with this Biblical pattern.

Typology does not authorize devotion. It's merely a tool God uses to point to Christ.

Mary is indeed blessed ("among women," not "above monarchs") and unique, in that she was chosen to bear Christ, just how the ark was constructed (out of wood and gold, no less) to bear (symbolically) God's presence. Her greatness is 100% derived from the One inside her, not intrinsic. If Catholics were consistent with this, they would FEAR idolizing the vessel, not try to use it as justification for devotion to Mary.

 

[Clete]

We don't worship her any more than anybody Christian would worship any other monarch, except that she's above all other monarchs, except ofc for Her Son, the King of the Universe, Pantocrator.

Define "worship"!

Don't bother! Allow me....


Do Catholics Worship Mary? A Biblical Look at Worship vs. Rome’s Redefinition


Catholics will tell you all day long that they do not worship Mary. They will even get frustrated, even angry, when you suggest otherwise. Their argument goes something like this: “We give God latria (worship), the saints dulia (veneration), and Mary hyperdulia (a unique veneration above the saints, but still not worship).” All of which is a rhetorical a shell game.

They don't want to admit that their practices amount to worship, so they redefine the word. They do not deny the behavior, they just apply a different label to it.

The problem, as always with Catholics, is that Scripture does not make these distinctions. Worship in the Bible includes bowing, praying, praising, and showing reverence. All of these are reserved for God alone.

Abraham said he would "worship" before any sacrifice had taken place (Genesis 22:5). Bowing before idols is called worship (Exodus 20:5). John bowed before an angel and was immediately rebuked (Revelation 19:10). Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego were commanded to fall down and worship the golden image. Satan asked Jesus to fall down and worship him (Matthew 4:9). In each case, the act falling down in a visible, bodily posture of submission and reverence was worship, regardless of what the person may have intended.

Prayer is no different. Psalm 65:2 says that God is the one who hears prayer. Jesus taught us to pray, "Our Father." There is not a single example in the Bible of prayer being offered to ANYONE else.

So if you are kneeling before someone, praying to them, trusting them to hear you, and praising them with titles and hymns, that IS worship. You can call it something else if you want, but God calls it idolatry.

"I am the Lord. That is My name. And My glory I will not give to another" (Isaiah 42:8).