ECT The historical false teaching about the sins of a believer

Shasta

Shasta

Well-known member
Cross Reference said:
. . . . with a warning to them!!! How come Paul would include such a warning??
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All that he wrote to them indicates that they were faithful believers. Warnings are only efficacious (1) if a negative outcome is possible and (2) if they have a mind, will, conscience and are able to make real choices in order to avod the negative outcome. If no negative consequences are possible then the warning is predicated upon deception. If we are incapable of responding to the warning then there is absolutely no point in giving it. From this I conclude that, though they were abiding in the Savior's life at the time, it was also possible for them to turn away. Paul's warnings are meant to motivate saints to stay the course and not turn aside.
 
Z

ZacharyB

Active member
Cross Reference said:
. . . . with a warning to them!!! How come Paul would include such a warning??
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To keep them FAITHFUL ... on the straight and narrow, etc.
You know, faithful today, unfaithful tomorrow ... is more than a possibility.
Humans have a free will to follow after Jesus, or not to.
We all need to figure out just what following Jesus really means!
 
Z

ZacharyB

Active member
jamie said:
Saved and kept from what ... death? Are you immortal?
Actually, for spiritual salvation is held in trust by Jesus until it is bestowed on us at the first resurrection.
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Yes, but don't tell these people.
Might spoil their fun free frolic while they's a-floatin' to heaven on a cloud of grace.
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

New member
Shasta said:
All that he wrote to them indicates that they were faithful believers. Warnings are only efficacious (1) if a negative outcome is possible and (2) if they have a mind, will, conscience and are able to make real choices in order to avod the negative outcome. If no negative consequences are possible then the warning is predicated upon deception. If we are incapable of responding to the warning then there is absolutely no point in giving it. From this I conclude that, though they were abiding in the Savior's life at the time, it was also possible for them to turn away. Paul's warnings are meant to motivate saints to stay the course and not turn aside.
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A negative outcome is always possible if one is not abiding in Christ. Just saying a sinners prayer doesn't make it a done deal. In fact saying a sinners prayer only secures a time of testing to see what you are made of.
 
journey

journey

New member
Thankfully, Salvation is NOT on the installment payment plan. Jesus Christ has already paid it all on the Cross.

Ephesians 2:8-10 KJV For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Some of the posters in this thread don't have a clue. They are mixing the Gospel of the Kingdom with the Gospel of the Grace of God, so they are terribly confused. Sadly, they don't understand what I just said.
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

New member
journey said:
Thankfully, Salvation is NOT on the installment payment plan. Jesus Christ has already paid it all on the Cross.

Ephesians 2:8-10 KJV For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Some of the posters in this thread don't have a clue. They are mixing the Gospel of the Kingdom with the Gospel of the Grace of God, so they are terribly confused. Sadly, they don't understand what I just said.
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and you are mixing all up with the issue of salvation.
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

New member
journey said:
Thankfully, Salvation is NOT on the installment payment plan. Jesus Christ has already paid it all on the Cross.

Ephesians 2:8-10 KJV For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Some of the posters in this thread don't have a clue. They are mixing the Gospel of the Kingdom with the Gospel of the Grace of God, so they are terribly confused. Sadly, they don't understand what I just said.
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Only for our redemption. That's all.
 
Z

ZacharyB

Active member
journey said:
Ephesians 2:8-10 KJV For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Some of the posters in this thread don't have a clue.
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Thouself is speaking about thouself.

Ephesians was written only to the "faithful" saints @ Ephesus!

You missed 1:1 ... kinda like missin' kindergarden.
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

New member
ZacharyB said:
To keep them FAITHFUL ... on the straight and narrow, etc.
You know, faithful today, unfaithful tomorrow ... is more than a possibility.
Humans have a free will to follow after Jesus, or not to.
We all need to figure out just what following Jesus really means!
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Amen!
 
Z

ZacharyB

Active member
Cross Reference said:
Ephesians was written only to the "faithful" saints @ Ephesus!

Interesting the KJV reads to the saints AND the faithful in Christ Jesus.
See anything there?
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After all the times I've pointed this out, yer just seein' it now?
Is this what it's gonna be like for me in 2+ years?

Actually, I see it as the same:
faithful saints ... saints and faithful ... they iz both S and F!
 
heir

heir

TOL Subscriber
Cross Reference said:
Only for our redemption. That's all.
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We already have redemption through his blood,...

Ephesians 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Our inheritance a guarantee/sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of His glory!

Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Ephesians 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

IOW, no one can touch our salvation as the redemption of the purchased possession is locked in!
 
heir

heir

TOL Subscriber
Cross Reference said:
No kidding' Dick Tracey. Oops! You don't who he is either. Sorry 'bout that.
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You said, "only for our redemption" and I showed you we are already redeemed by His blood AND that we (those who are saved) are sealed until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of His glory. Do you believe that?
 
heir

heir

TOL Subscriber
Cross Reference said:
Who, Paul or Jesus?
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Romans 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.



1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

1 Corinthians 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

1 Corinthians 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

New member
heir said:
Romans 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.



1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

1 Corinthians 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

1 Corinthians 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
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Who, Paul or Jesus?
 
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