The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to be Saved! (HOF thread)

[rene]

I have no idea what YOUR "program" is - other than to say that a teaching of Jesus is "minor".

By that comment, your quote of the verse calls into question YOUR being one that actually has Jesus as the 'author and finisher of their faith'. You have called the very words of Jesus MINOR. Such a comment calls into question claims that such is indeed a reality within the life of one that makes such a statement.

Time to get off your program and get inline with the teachings of Jesus.

 

[JustAChristian]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How Is Man Justified?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How Is Man Justified?

Originally posted by Freak

:dizzy:

Jesus saves not water baptism.

Scripture states...

Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Now, the questions for you:

1. Is water or Jesus mentioned as being the author of our faith?
2. Does water perfect our faith in light of this passage?

Freak,

You give me questions when you want answer my questions. Is that fair? I asked you to tell me how we are saved by the gospel (1 Cor. 15:2). Also, I asked you to tell us how being saved by the gospel and being saved by faith (Eph. 2:8) was different. You failed to answer that question either. When you extend the courtesy to answer my questions then I will gladly show you how we are saved by baptism. Yes, Jesus is the perfector of our faith. Now get to work and answer my questions.

JustAChristian :angel:

"...By which also he (Jesus, JAC) went and preached unto the spirits in prison (during the time prior to the flood as Noah preached), JAC; Which sometime were disobedient (those who wouldn't listen to the preaching of Noah, JAC), when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save ..."(1 Peter 3:19-21 AV)

 

[Freak]

Originally posted by rene

Time to get off your program and get inline with the teachings of Jesus.

rene, did water ever bestow righteousness upon anyone? Or did righteousness come from a living God-the Lord Jesus? We'll see how focused you are truly on Jesus. Please answer.

 

[rene]

Did Jesus teach of the need to baptize?

Why do you call a teaching that comes from Son of God "minor"?

If you don't feel the need to follow His/Jesus teachings, suggest that they are "minor" - just what is it that you follow since it isn't the words of the Savior?

Originally posted by Freak

rene, did water ever bestow righteousness upon anyone? Or did righteousness come from a living God-the Lord Jesus? We'll see how focused you are truly on Jesus. Please answer.

 

[Freak]

I'm going to answer your answer so I expect you to answer my mine.

Originally posted by rene

Did Jesus teach of the need to baptize?

Yes, He told us disciples to baptize. But He never claimed that water saved. He always pointed people to Himself as the way unto salvation (see John 14:6).

Why do you call a teaching that comes from Son of God "minor"?

Because water doesn't save but He does. Jesus is the author of salvation not water.

rene, did water ever bestow righteousness upon anyone? Or did righteousness come from a living God-the Lord Jesus? We'll see how focused you are truly on Jesus. Please answer.

btw, i'm leaving to go out of town today but will be back over the weekend.

 

[c.moore]

Hello freak welcome back to deep sea diving, getting wet with no effects.:thumb:

 

[JustAChristian]

Welcome Back!

Welcome Back!

Originally posted by c.moore

Hello freak welcome back to deep sea diving, getting wet with no effects.:thumb:

c. moore,

Hop right in the water is fine!

Freak want answer my questions. Maybe you will. If the bible tells us that we are saved by grace through faith (Eph. 2:8) and then tell us we are saved by the gospel (1 Cor. 15:2), how can this be? Does it take two things to save us? If it does, tell me how does these two things save?

JustAChristian :angel:

"...By which also he (Jesus, JAC) went and preached unto the spirits in prison (during the time prior to the flood as Noah preached), JAC; Which sometime were disobedient (those who wouldn't listen to the preaching of Noah, JAC), when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save ..."(1 Peter 3:19-21 AV)

 

[rene]

You still are a LONG way from making reply to all the questions asked - but still see that you are intent upon getting what you asked answered.....

You FINALLY admit that the teaching of baptism is a teaching of Jesus. FINALLY. Now considering that we finally got to that point - what in the world gives you the thought that any teaching of HIS is "minor"?? You suggesting that such doesn't have to be obeyed, followed, ignored??

The question really should be is a person a Christian that hasn't followed the teachings of the one that they claim to follow? Can a person make claims that the teachings of the one that they claim to follow are somehow "minor'?

Can a person making such a suggestion be following the scripture, the one that they claim that they follow suggest that such is not important, less than all the rest of His teachings and still be a follower of the one that they claim to follow? Where is the "focus" of one making such comments?

You STILL have yet to show of anone called as a believer was NOT baptised. The one point that you attempted to suggest supported that - scripture doesn't agree with that claim at all. So then the question really should be, "Are there any that are called righteous that are not baptized?"

Ah yes - - but it is *YOU* that wants to suggest that such teaching is "MINOR"......

Who is it that you really follow with such an approach to scripture??

Rene

Originally posted by Freak

I'm going to answer your answer so I expect you to answer my mine.
Yes, He told us disciples to baptize. But He never claimed that water saved. He always pointed people to Himself as the way unto salvation (see John 14:6).

Because water doesn't save but He does. Jesus is the author of salvation not water.

rene, did water ever bestow righteousness upon anyone? Or did righteousness come from a living God-the Lord Jesus? We'll see how focused you are truly on Jesus. Please answer.

btw, i'm leaving to go out of town today but will be back over the weekend.

 

[c.moore]

Re: Welcome Back!

Re: Welcome Back!

Originally posted by JustAChristian

c. moore,

Hop right in the water is fine!

Freak want answer my questions. Maybe you will. If the bible tells us that we are saved by grace through faith (Eph. 2:8) and then tell us we are saved by the gospel (1 Cor. 15:2), how can this be? Does it take two things to save us? If it does, tell me how does these two things save?

JustAChristian :angel:

"...By which also he (Jesus, JAC) went and preached unto the spirits in prison (during the time prior to the flood as Noah preached), JAC; Which sometime were disobedient (those who wouldn't listen to the preaching of Noah, JAC), when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save ..."(1 Peter 3:19-21 AV)

1Co:15:2: By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

Notice the key word Believe .
So they did believe in Christ good news and had Him as their Lord and savior which was preaches unto them.

Eph:2:7: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
Eph:2:8: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

so again it is the believing of Christ Jesus are we saved and throught His Word by faith and not any works or ritual needed, or traditions.

I would like to also ask the question what saved Noah the water or the boat he was in????

God Bless

 

[rene]

Re: Re: Welcome Back!

Re: Re: Welcome Back!

You miss very important facts.

Fact is that it is Paul that wrote this letter.
Fact is that Paul as soon as he realized who Jesus went to be baptized.
Fact is that Paul taught of the importance of baptism - even to the point of contending that it should be done (Acts 10:48 - if not important part of the walk of a believer - why ordered it be done -ie it is not "minor" as some suggest)

The fact is that Paul taught and baptized people, that it what he preached, what they believed in.

So, in a way you are correct. The keyword is indeed BELIEVE. One needs to find out what it is that they believed in and what that belief produced.

It is that belief that brings about the grace spoken of and that you quote scripture about.

As to what saved Noah? He believed in God, obeyed His words, followed His instructions. Take one of those steps out - and what have you got?

Rene

Originally posted by c.moore

1Co:15:2: By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

Notice the key word Believe .
So they did believe in Christ good news and had Him as their Lord and savior which was preaches unto them.

Eph:2:7: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
Eph:2:8: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

so again it is the believing of Christ Jesus are we saved and throught His Word by faith and not any works or ritual needed, or traditions.

I would like to also ask the question what saved Noah the water or the boat he was in????

God Bless

 

[c.moore]

rene

You didn`t answer my question.
what saved Noah the water or the boat he was in????

Water___

or
Boat___

which one alone saved Noah?

belief is trusting in something having faith in that which you believe.

 

[rene]

ANSWERED what you question - which then you didn't reply to my question - which I shall place for you here again.

As to what saved Noah? He believed in God, obeyed His words, followed His instructions. Take one of those steps out - and what have you got?

Rene

 

[c.moore]

Originally posted by rene

ANSWERED what you question - which then you didn't reply to my question - which I shall place for you here again.

As to what saved Noah? He believed in God, obeyed His words, followed His instructions. Take one of those steps out - and what have you got?

Rene

dry land , no water

 

[rene]

This is the reply of a mature Christian?

No comments directed to replies made to your comments from Paul's writings - and this is the type of reply that is given after you make a show of me supposedly not making reply - as if you have this deep theological point that you going to make??

 

[c.moore]

Originally posted by rene

This is the reply of a mature Christian?

No comments directed to replies made to your comments from Paul's writings - and this is the type of reply that is given after you make a show of me supposedly not making reply - as if you have this deep theological point that you going to make??

It was spiritual sorry you couldn`t understand it.

1Co:2:13: Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co:2:14: But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[rene]

Your version of "spirituality" eludes effective and mature discussion it would appear. Let's give it another try.....

But back to the easy question asked of you - that is not all that difficult to answer.

As to what saved Noah? He believed in God, obeyed His words, followed His instructions. Take one of those steps out - and what have you got?

 

[c.moore]

Originally posted by rene

Your version of "spirituality" eludes effective and mature discussion it would appear. Let's give it another try.....

But back to the easy question asked of you - that is not all that difficult to answer.

As to what saved Noah? He believed in God, obeyed His words, followed His instructions. Take one of those steps out - and what have you got?

you will have one less instruction , but if he just believed which is trusting in God , that one thing would save his life, so yes the faith in God would save him and his family either way.


Heb:11:7: By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

 

[rene]

So, what your saying is that it is ok to not to as instructed by Jesus, the one that your suppose to be following.

To pick and make choice of what you want to follow is what you believe.

To disobey and not to do as told by God is 'ok'.

And you see no problem with such an approach.

Ok.......

Even your quote from the bible doesn't support this approach.

Originally posted by c.moore

you will have one less instruction , but if he just believed which is trusting in God , that one thing would save his life, so yes the faith in God would save him and his family either way.


Heb:11:7: By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

 

[JustAChristian]

Re: Re: Welcome Back!

Re: Re: Welcome Back!

Originally posted by c.moore

1Co:15:2: By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

Notice the key word Believe .
So they did believe in Christ good news and had Him as their Lord and savior which was preaches unto them.

Eph:2:7: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
Eph:2:8: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

so again it is the believing of Christ Jesus are we saved and throught His Word by faith and not any works or ritual needed, or traditions.

I would like to also ask the question what saved Noah the water or the boat he was in????

God Bless

c. morris,

Do you not see that by believing you are doing a work? [Read for yourself; John 6:28-29]. So to have faith is to have done something that was a work in order to have obtained faith. The bible says faith comes by hearing (Romans 10:17), so "hearing" is a work. It is a necessary action on one's part to obtain faith. Faith then is the end result of doing whatever pleases God. Being baptized for the remission of sins is an action of faith. With out the fullness of faith which includes repentance, confession of Christ, baptism, walking in newness of life and sowing to the Spirit one can not be saved.

What saved Noah, the boat or the water? Well, what does the bible say? Read the verse; "...Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water" (1 Peter 3:20). It says that Noah and his wife, three sons and their wives were save by water. Now how were they saved by water. Water saved them when it seperated them from the sins of the earth as it was covered by the flood. They were no longer in the realm of sin. When we are baptized for the remission of sins we, too, are no longer in the realm of sin. Sin is washed away by the blood of Christ (Read Acts 22:16; Read Rev 1:5). Therefore, one can not be cleansed and saved without baptism. Mind you, I am not just talking about dipping in water, but doing something that spiritually applies the blood of Christ to the heart thus pleasing God.

JustAChristian :angel:

 

[c.moore]

Re: Re: Re: Welcome Back!

Re: Re: Re: Welcome Back!

Originally posted by JustAChristian

c. morris,

Do you not see that by believing you are doing a work? [Read for yourself; John 6:28-29]. So to have faith is to have done something that was a work in order to have obtained faith. The bible says faith comes by hearing (Romans 10:17), so "hearing" is a work. It is a necessary action on one's part to obtain faith. Faith then is the end result of doing whatever pleases God. Being baptized for the remission of sins is an action of faith. With out the fullness of faith which includes repentance, confession of Christ, baptism, walking in newness of life and sowing to the Spirit one can not be saved.

What saved Noah, the boat or the water? Well, what does the bible say? Read the verse; "...Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water" (1 Peter 3:20). It says that Noah and his wife, three sons and their wives were save by water. Now how were they saved by water. Water saved them when it seperated them from the sins of the earth as it was covered by the flood. They were no longer in the realm of sin. When we are baptized for the remission of sins we, too, are no longer in the realm of sin. Sin is washed away by the blood of Christ (Read Acts 22:16; Read Rev 1:5). Therefore, one can not be cleansed and saved without baptism. Mind you, I am not just talking about dipping in water, but doing something that spiritually applies the blood of Christ to the heart thus pleasing God.

JustAChristian :angel:

Is believing ´need a ritual work??

Is hearing a ritual work??

is using you heart a ritual work??

How much of Jesus blood washes away our sins, and can the blood of Jesus do the finish work of repentance or is it not strong enough???

Isn`t believing with your heart obeying??

Letting the blood of Jesus wash you from all your sins obedience to righteousness???