The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to be Saved! (HOF thread)
- Thread starter Freak
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rene
New member
So - if the teaching is from the very mouth of Jesus, an instruction left by Him that should be done is labeled a "ritual" by mankind, which is not labeled as such by God - one doesn't have to obey??
Do you HONESTLY BELIEVE THAT?!? that such an attitude reflects a person that is indeed SAVED?
Do you HONESTLY BELIEVE THAT?!? that such an attitude reflects a person that is indeed SAVED?
rene
New member
Personal view - anyone that has the approach to the teachings of Jesus that your suggesting - needs to go back and get grounded within those teachings that they are putting their manmade labels upon and get inline with His teachings, His thoughts, His spoken instruction and forgo their personal interpretations. They NEED to get inline with His teachings if they are really going to be followers of Jesus Christ, a Christian.
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rene
New member
Anyone that suggest that they are "Christian" but then turns around and says the teachings of the one that they 'claim' to follow are "minor" - - are what? What is it that you call those that do such?
If such are not following the teachings of God as instructed by the one claimed to being followed - - who/what is being followed?
Rene
If such are not following the teachings of God as instructed by the one claimed to being followed - - who/what is being followed?
Rene
JustAChristian
New member
Freak,
You should know that when they moved by faith entered the boat that they obeyed God. When the rains came the water raised the boat above the sinful generation and they were saved by the water (1 Peter 3:19-21). Now, if you and c. moore don't want to accept an inspired apostle's conclusion then you missed the boat!
JustAChristian :angel:
JustAChristian
New member
What Saved Noah and His Family
What Saved Noah and His Family
What saved Noah, the boat or the water? Well, what does the bible say? Read the verse; "...Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water" (1 Peter 3:20). It says that Noah and his wife, three sons and their wives were save by water. Now how were they saved by water. Water saved them when it seperated them from the sins of the earth as it was covered by the flood. They were no longer in the realm of sin. When we are baptized for the remission of sins we, too, are no longer in the realm of sin. Sin is washed away by the blood of Christ (Read Acts 22:16; Read Rev 1:5). Faith and obedience go hand in hand in salvation (Rom. 1:5; Heb. 5:8-9). Therefore, one can not be cleansed and saved without baptism. Mind you, I am not just talking about dipping in water, but doing something that spiritually applies the blood of Christ to the heart thus pleasing God.
JustAChristian
What Saved Noah and His Family
What saved Noah, the boat or the water? Well, what does the bible say? Read the verse; "...Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water" (1 Peter 3:20). It says that Noah and his wife, three sons and their wives were save by water. Now how were they saved by water. Water saved them when it seperated them from the sins of the earth as it was covered by the flood. They were no longer in the realm of sin. When we are baptized for the remission of sins we, too, are no longer in the realm of sin. Sin is washed away by the blood of Christ (Read Acts 22:16; Read Rev 1:5). Faith and obedience go hand in hand in salvation (Rom. 1:5; Heb. 5:8-9). Therefore, one can not be cleansed and saved without baptism. Mind you, I am not just talking about dipping in water, but doing something that spiritually applies the blood of Christ to the heart thus pleasing God.
JustAChristian
rene
New member
Faith is chanted like a mantra - but then when asked what it is faith in? if they follow the teachings of whom they say they have faith in - back to this empty mantra they go.
I am just floored that someone would even have the nerve to say that they are Christian and claim that a teaching from the lips of the very person that they say that they believe in follow are "minor".
Salvation is thru Jesus. Following Him. His words. All except the ones that some want to call "minor" by some........
It is just that type of mindset that opens doors to the cults we have today.
Rene
I am just floored that someone would even have the nerve to say that they are Christian and claim that a teaching from the lips of the very person that they say that they believe in follow are "minor".
Salvation is thru Jesus. Following Him. His words. All except the ones that some want to call "minor" by some........
It is just that type of mindset that opens doors to the cults we have today.
Rene
Freak
New member
The apostle Peter made it quite clear that water isn't what saves...
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade--kept in heaven for you, who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time..
Is it through water or faith?
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rene
New member
So - your claiming to follow Jesus - just call one of His teachings "minor"??
Anyone that suggest that they are "Christian" but then turns around and says the teachings of the one that they 'claim' to follow are "minor" - - are what? What is it that you call those that do such?
If such are not following the teachings of God as instructed by the one claimed to being followed - - who/what is being followed?
Can a person making such a suggestion of "minor" be following the scripture, the one that they claim that they follow suggest that such is not important, less than all the rest of His teachings and still be a follower of the one that they claim to follow? Where is the "focus" of one making such comments?
Did Jesus teach of the need to baptize?
Why do you call a teaching that comes from Son of God "minor"?
If you don't feel the need to follow His/Jesus teachings, suggest that they are "minor" - just what is it that you follow since it isn't the words of the Savior?
You STILL have yet to show of anyone called as a believer was NOT baptised. The one point that you attempted to suggest supported that - scripture doesn't agree with that claim at all. So then the question really should be, "Are there any that are called righteous that are not baptized?"
Can one be a follower of Jesus and suggest that His teachings are "minor" while exalting their own view which goes against His teaching?
Anyone that suggest that they are "Christian" but then turns around and says the teachings of the one that they 'claim' to follow are "minor" - - are what? What is it that you call those that do such?
If such are not following the teachings of God as instructed by the one claimed to being followed - - who/what is being followed?
Can a person making such a suggestion of "minor" be following the scripture, the one that they claim that they follow suggest that such is not important, less than all the rest of His teachings and still be a follower of the one that they claim to follow? Where is the "focus" of one making such comments?
Did Jesus teach of the need to baptize?
Why do you call a teaching that comes from Son of God "minor"?
If you don't feel the need to follow His/Jesus teachings, suggest that they are "minor" - just what is it that you follow since it isn't the words of the Savior?
You STILL have yet to show of anyone called as a believer was NOT baptised. The one point that you attempted to suggest supported that - scripture doesn't agree with that claim at all. So then the question really should be, "Are there any that are called righteous that are not baptized?"
Can one be a follower of Jesus and suggest that His teachings are "minor" while exalting their own view which goes against His teaching?
Freak
New member
Not for salvation, no.
I just answered that question. Move on to another.
Now those who had been scattered by the persecution in connection with Stephen traveled as far as Phoenicia, Cyprus and Antioch, telling the message only to Jews. Some of them, however, men from Cyprus and Cyrene, went to Antioch and began to speak to Greeks also, telling them the good news about the Lord Jesus. The Lord's hand was with them, and a great number of people believed and turned to the Lord.
News of this reached the ears of the church at Jerusalem, and they sent Barnabas to Antioch. When he arrived and saw the evidence of the grace of God, he was glad and encouraged them all to remain true to the Lord with all their hearts. He was a good man, full of the Holy Spirit and faith, and a great number of people were brought to the Lord.
Then Barnabas went to Tarsus to look for Saul, and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.
See above.
rene
New member
You show a basic misunderstanding of scriptures. But considering what you have written - not shocked by it any more.
What is the "preaching of the Lord Jesus" spoken of within that portion of Acts? His preaching. His words. The words that you want to ignore about baptism. The words YOU declare as MINOR!
The teachings of Jesus are not a buffet. You don't pick and choose. Such an approach does not reflect what is within the bible of what a Christian is doing. Since that is the approach that you seem to want to suggest as 'Christian' and 'biblical' - where is such an approach said to be taken found within the bible?
What is the "preaching of the Lord Jesus" spoken of within that portion of Acts? His preaching. His words. The words that you want to ignore about baptism. The words YOU declare as MINOR!
The teachings of Jesus are not a buffet. You don't pick and choose. Such an approach does not reflect what is within the bible of what a Christian is doing. Since that is the approach that you seem to want to suggest as 'Christian' and 'biblical' - where is such an approach said to be taken found within the bible?
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JustAChristian
New member
The Bible Said It Was Water!
The Bible Said It Was Water!
Freak,
You do err not knowing the scriptures... When Peter used the term "water" he also said that it saved Noah and his family. You need to understand just how the water was the instrument of their salvation. However, you don't choose to participate on a sound debate on that subject. You are a "faith only" Calvinist and a heretic. You can't endure sound doctrine, because you are not willing to admit that you might be wrong. Your logic is very unsound and empty. You are a very basic person without true spirituality.
God is not your Father nor is Jesus Christ your savior. Until you are willing to submit yourself to the word of God and be obedient to that word you stand far off from salvation. Jesus said, "He that believes and IS BAPTIZED shall be saved" (Mark 16:16). Until you admit and obey that statement you are not a true Christian.
JustAChristian :angel:
The Bible Said It Was Water!
Freak,
You do err not knowing the scriptures... When Peter used the term "water" he also said that it saved Noah and his family. You need to understand just how the water was the instrument of their salvation. However, you don't choose to participate on a sound debate on that subject. You are a "faith only" Calvinist and a heretic. You can't endure sound doctrine, because you are not willing to admit that you might be wrong. Your logic is very unsound and empty. You are a very basic person without true spirituality.
God is not your Father nor is Jesus Christ your savior. Until you are willing to submit yourself to the word of God and be obedient to that word you stand far off from salvation. Jesus said, "He that believes and IS BAPTIZED shall be saved" (Mark 16:16). Until you admit and obey that statement you are not a true Christian.
JustAChristian :angel:
JustAChristian
New member
Is Water Baptism for Salvation taught by Jesus Christ
Is Water Baptism for Salvation taught by Jesus Christ
Freak was asked...
rene asked...
Did Jesus teach of the need to baptize?
Freak answered...
Not for salvation, no.
My answer to Freak is that Jesus said, "He that believes and is baptized shall be saved" Believing and being baptized are essential by the words of Jesus Christ. He definitely taught water baptism is essential for salvation. So did the apostles including Paul (Acts 2:38; 19:1-9).
JustAChristian
Is Water Baptism for Salvation taught by Jesus Christ
Freak was asked...
rene asked...
Did Jesus teach of the need to baptize?
Freak answered...
Not for salvation, no.
My answer to Freak is that Jesus said, "He that believes and is baptized shall be saved" Believing and being baptized are essential by the words of Jesus Christ. He definitely taught water baptism is essential for salvation. So did the apostles including Paul (Acts 2:38; 19:1-9).
JustAChristian
Freak
New member
Re: The Bible Said It Was Water!
Re: The Bible Said It Was Water!
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
Not believing will bring eternal hell not the absence of water.
Re: The Bible Said It Was Water!
Strong words from a demonized man.
Mark 16:16 continues with this...
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
Not believing will bring eternal hell not the absence of water.
rene
New member
You write things like this, "Strong words from a demonized man."
Yet you make claims that the very words of Jesus are "minor" and suggst that using a buffet approach to the gospel to pick and choose what it is that you want to follow is"Christian"?
Any scriptural ref.'s for any of your comments (as in from the bible) - or are they like the others and just your view that you promote as scriptural where you insult others in your claims of spirituality?
Yet you make claims that the very words of Jesus are "minor" and suggst that using a buffet approach to the gospel to pick and choose what it is that you want to follow is"Christian"?
Any scriptural ref.'s for any of your comments (as in from the bible) - or are they like the others and just your view that you promote as scriptural where you insult others in your claims of spirituality?
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rene
New member
Re: Is Water Baptism for Salvation taught by Jesus Christ
Re: Is Water Baptism for Salvation taught by Jesus Christ
He isn't seeing the AND in the scripture. Besides - it doesn't go along with he is wanting to follow. Bible important? Not per those with such an approach as we are seeing displayed.
He attempts to suggst that you are just picking a portion of scripture and misrepresenting it - but then turns around and picks his own portion of scripture while ignoring what it says before it. It is like they have taken a marker and blacked out all the words having to do with baptism - - cause they are "minor".
But such is ok - - per him of course - - no matter what is within the bible.
It is 'buffet theology' that he is promoting. One picks and makes choice. The individual choice of words to see as important - vs - the words of Jesus seen as inspired words from the heart of God spoken to reveal His will to mankind.
It boils down to he is turning away from and denegrating the very words of Jesus all in favor of his own views, elevating his thoughts on a matter over Jesus.
Re: Is Water Baptism for Salvation taught by Jesus Christ
He isn't seeing the AND in the scripture. Besides - it doesn't go along with he is wanting to follow. Bible important? Not per those with such an approach as we are seeing displayed.
He attempts to suggst that you are just picking a portion of scripture and misrepresenting it - but then turns around and picks his own portion of scripture while ignoring what it says before it. It is like they have taken a marker and blacked out all the words having to do with baptism - - cause they are "minor".
But such is ok - - per him of course - - no matter what is within the bible.
It is 'buffet theology' that he is promoting. One picks and makes choice. The individual choice of words to see as important - vs - the words of Jesus seen as inspired words from the heart of God spoken to reveal His will to mankind.
It boils down to he is turning away from and denegrating the very words of Jesus all in favor of his own views, elevating his thoughts on a matter over Jesus.
c.moore
New member
rene
Are non condemned people bound to hell???
Are those who believed condemned according to Mark16??
M'r:16:16: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
According to the scripture which water baptism people use as their key excuse to make water a new salvation message say`s it is those who don`t believe who are condemned not those who are not baptized.
tell me why the blood of Jesus needs help from water to make the blood of jesus strong enough to do the finished work which was done already on the cross???
Are non condemned people bound to hell???
Are those who believed condemned according to Mark16??
M'r:16:16: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
According to the scripture which water baptism people use as their key excuse to make water a new salvation message say`s it is those who don`t believe who are condemned not those who are not baptized.
tell me why the blood of Jesus needs help from water to make the blood of jesus strong enough to do the finished work which was done already on the cross???