the four beasts

chrysostom

Well-known member
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was, and is not, and yet is​


This is from chapter 17 verse 8 of the Apocalypse and it is very significant in that it ties together Satan of chapter 20, the dragon of chapter 12, the beasts of chapter 13, and the seven heads and ten horns of chapter 17.

Revelation 17:8 (KJV)
8The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

In chapter 13:12 the first beast is mortally wounded and replaced by the second one. In chapter 17 we have the beast that was, is not, and yet to come along with the five kings that were, the one that is, and the one that is yet to come. We should pay attention to any historical events that might fit this.
 

chrysostom

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" Was it possible, they began to ask themselves, that the fourth beast seen by Daniel was not, as had long been presumed, the empire of the Romans, after all? "

" Already, by the 660's, there were many prepared to revise their understanding of what Daniel had meant by this vision. ' He is saying, ' so a chronicler in Armenia suggested, ' that this fourth beast, which arises from the south, is the kingdom of the sons of Ishmael. ' "


In the Shadow of the Sword (book)



the chronicler in armenia was sebeos
 
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chrysostom

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If you see it in light of the desecration of the temple by the Seleucids, Antiochus IV Epihanes being the Seleucid king, it makes perfect sense, because that happened at a time when there was a functioning temple and there were sacrifices being done there which were then made impossible by the desecration of the temple by the pagan Seleucids.

antiochus iv epiphanes was a greek king
so
the babylonians, the greeks, and the romans

all had something to do with the temple
but
not the medes or the persians
so
we drop them
and
add islam that does have something to do with the temple
and
is diverse from all the others
 

chrysostom

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is political correctness preventing the naming of the beast?

there is only one protected religion
and
that is islam
why?
because they will kill you even if they have to kill themselves while doing it
 

Hearmyvoice

New member
is political correctness preventing the naming of the beast?

there is only one protected religion
and
that is islam
why?
because they will kill you even if they have to kill themselves while doing it


Very true. A great example is the beheading that took place yesterday in OKLAHOMA. So many balked at stating what was plainly there...ISLAM at work in all it's "peaceful" glory.
 

chrysostom

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the babylonians destroyed the first temple
the greeks desecrated the second
the romans destroyed the second
and
islam is preventing the third
 

northwye

New member
By the four beasts do you mean the four beasts of Daniel 2 or the four beasts of Daniel 7?

The four beast empires of Daniel 2 are all pre-Cross empires, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome. The those in the several false doctrines of Christianity tend to agree on this.

The four beast empires of Daniel 7: 4-7 - and don't forget the Little Horn nation of Daniel 7: 8 which rises up among these four beast empires - are the lion who originally had eagle's wings, the bear, the leopard and the fourth dreadful, strong and terrible beast empire.

The four horsemen of Revelation 6: 2-8 are, in part, these same four beast kingdoms of Daniel 7. And the first beast of Revelation 13: 1-3 is a composite beast empire which is said in verse 2 to be like the leopard, bear and lion (Daniel 7).

In order for the four beast empires of Daniel 7: 4-7 to play roles in the end time scenarios of Revelation 6 and 13, they have to be post-Cross world empires.

An understanding of the fundamental importance of these four beast empires of Daniel 7: 4-7 and the Little Horn nation that they are after the Cross and not also Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome of Daniel 2 - as the several false doctrines of Christianity now say - would work against the acceptance of these several false doctrines. That is, making the four beast empires of Daniel 7 post Cross empires can reveal the false nature of the contemporary Christian theologies.

Dispensationalism is one of the false doctrines. Dispensationalism, for one thing, opposes an understanding of the language of metaphor used in so many Bible prophecies. Amillennialism and the tendency to overly allegorize prophecy is another false doctrine. Preterism, the doctrine that all end time prophecy was fulfilled in the First century, is still another false doctrine. Though apparently the Christian Identity movement does not seem to be here on TOL, it too is another false doctrine, a variation of the dispensationalist honoring of all Old Covenant Israel - the multitude and not the remnant of Old Covenant Israel. Christian Identity claims its Germanic and Celtic followers are of the Ten Lost tribes of Old Covenant Israel. Like dispensationalism, which is racist, but its racism is in part hidden, Christian Identity is overtly racist.

An understanding of the American national security state helps to understand what the fourth beast empire of Daniel 7: 7 is, that it is not the Constitutional republic. It has taken on some of the traits of the lion, bear and leopard world empires.
 

drws

New member
The Bible says that these beasts, from Daniel, will be kingdoms during the time that Jesus returns. Could it be that God knew that the modern day nations would have animal symbols? We see a lion with eagles wings that are then taken off and stand with a heart of a man given to it. What major nation has the symbol of a lion? Great Britain. What major nation has the animal signal of an eagle? The United States. What is also interesting is that the United States came out of Great Britain, just like what is depicted in Daniel 7 and has a second symbol: Uncle Sam. Then we see a bear with three ribs; what major nation has the symbol of the bear? Russia's national symbol is the bear.
 

chrysostom

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the two beasts of the apocalypse
are
the last two beasts of daniel

the third beast of daniel
and
the first beast of the apocalypse
are
like a leopard

Daniel 7:6 (KJV)

6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.

Revelation 13:2 (KJV)

2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.


the fourth beast of daniel
and
the second beast of the apocalypse
both
have ten horns
 

OCTOBER23

New member
CHRYS IS FINALLY WAKING UP TO THE END TIMES THAT I HAVE BEEN PREACHING

It is almost Time for the Vatican to be Destroyed by the Moslems

because the Pope will get them Angry and they will try to Destroy

the Pagan Catholic Church in 2023 AD.
 

northwye

New member
"The Bible says that these beasts, from Daniel, will be kingdoms during the time that Jesus returns."

The symmetry of four beast empires before the Cross and four after the Cross and the two previous empires before the four in Daniel 2 and the two previous ones after the Cross coming before that quartet in Daniel 7 imply that the empires of Daniel 7 will exist when Christ returns. Revelation 13: 1-3, though, does not say that all four of the beasts of Daniel 7 are in complete power in the period of time after the Cross when Revelation 13 is fulfilled.

Revelation 13: 2 says "And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority."

The first beast of Revelation 13 is said to be like three of the four beast kingdoms in Daniel 7, not that it is all four empires of Daniel 7.

Like is from the Greek omoios, or homoios Strong's number 3664, from 3674, meaning "similar in character or appearance, like..."

It is true that the four empires of the statute dream of Daniel 2 - Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome all interacted with Old Covenant Israel.

In rejecting the four Daniel 7 beast empires as being after the Cross, the Capital C Church (not everyone but most in the churches) is failing to understand that after the Cross Israel still exists. The four beast kingdoms of Daniel 7 interact with Israel of the New Covenant, just as the four statute empires of Daniel 2 interacted with Old Covenant Israel.

In dispensationalism God has two peoples, the Capital C Church and Old Covenant Israel. This rejects the message of Jeremiah 18: 1-6, that Old Covenant Israel was not replaced by the Capital C Church nor does it stand alongside the Capital C Church, but that Israel as the one people of God was remade.

The Capital C Church, is different from the small c church, which is more like Tyndale's congregations in his 1526 English translation of the Textus Receptus, retaining the meaning of ekklesia as a meeting, assembly or congregation. The Roman Catholic Church is a Capital C Church and so is the dispensationalist Church, which is made to be another people of God, alongside Old Covenant Israel (in dispensationalism).

"And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it...........6. O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel." Jeremiah 18: 4, 6

The remaking of the vessel, Israel, is a foundational doctrine of the New Covenant, though subtle as a strand that runs through the Gospel of Christ. The New Covenant of Jesus Christ was opposed by the multitude of the earlier version of the vessel, Old Covenant Israel. It was not opposed by the remnant of Israel (Romans 11: 1-5).

“Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?” Romans 9:20.

“Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonor?” Romans 9:21.

Israel was remade, changed or transformed by God into the New Covenant, and so Israel exists as the one people of God (John 10: 16, Romans 12: 4-5, Ephesians 4: 4) in the timeline after the Cross and will exist when Christ returns.

What Revelation 13: 1-3 is saying is that the first beast of Revelation is a composite of an empire which has the traits of the lion, bear and leopard empires of Daniel 7 and is somehow allied with the head of the beast whose deadly wound was healed, which is the Little Horn found in Daniel 7: 8, immediately following the four beast empires. Since the first beast of Revelation 13 is said to be like the lion, bear and leopard empires and that fourth empire of Daniel 7: 7 is not mentioned there, it is implied that the first beast as a composite is somehow that "fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly..."

What nation on the scene during the reign of the lion, bear and leopard empires has traits of all three of these empires? That nation grew out of the lion empire, has had Marxist influences during the 20th century, and incorporated former Nazi operatives into its intelligence apparatus as part of the national security state. It became the national security state (1947) though it was once a constitutional republic.
 
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