Interplanner
Well-known member
How do you know specifically?
ECT The failure of the Bible or God is not resolved by a future Israel
- Thread starter Interplanner
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by revelation from the Throne.
not by studying this position and that and choosing the one I liked the most.
My understandings came via the hard road of desperations which threated to destroy me.
LA
Interplanner
Well-known member
If it is not crystal clear from 2 Pet 3, Heb 9, I Cor 15, Mt24B, Rom 2, 8, Acts 26, then I don't accept what you say about your 2 milleniums or is it 2 NHNEs? It is completely clear that there is nothing future for Israel in those passages, and that there is not a millenium as D'ists speak of it, and that the NHNE follows the firy and swift day of judgement without any distinction about this nation or that being bombed in a war or other middle east skirmish.
Are you interested in seeing reasons why the Rev had to do with its generation, or even less--just with those who survived, escaped, fled the destruction of Jerusalem?
All I can say is that your new Heavens and Earth following the great while throne judgment look more like the JWs version of unending nations and tilling the ground.
Such will occur only in the thousand years before the last judgment.
LA
turbosixx
New member
I agree and this is how I understand it. The promises made to Abraham were about Christ not the nation.
Gal. 3:16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, "And to seeds," as referring to many, but rather to one, "And to your seed," that is, Christ.
All things are through Christ, spiritually. Christians are spiritual Israel and make up the kingdom.
Children of Abraham:
29And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise.
Circmucised:
11and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands,
In Christ's kingdom:
13For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,
A physical kingdom is of ZERO benefit.
Interplanner
Well-known member
So in the 2nd one, the descendants are those that have faith, and they are largely from the nations.
There are threads here at TOL on the vocab chosen, for ex., in Rom 9 making Abraham's seed different from the children. ('sperma' vs 'sarkos.'). Of course, that was meant in Christ vs the biological method.
There are threads here at TOL on the vocab chosen, for ex., in Rom 9 making Abraham's seed different from the children. ('sperma' vs 'sarkos.'). Of course, that was meant in Christ vs the biological method.
Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Dan 7:26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
Dan 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.
Interplanner
Well-known member
Just so you know, LA: quoting a verse without any comment is the same as you saying: this is the only thing this can mean, and I don't need to provide any reasons why it does not mean what you say.
Sorry, it doesn't work that way. You have to have reasons.
There is no reason why this passage cannot be about the kingdom of God now in its trampled-on form or about the NHNE at the end of world history.
I think you mean it is about a restored Israel theocracy which is not mentioned or supported in the NT.
You think wrong.
The verses show that there is a period of time in which the Kingdom of God will rule over all remaining kingdoms and nations of the earth before the final rebelling of the nations to surround the Beloved City.
People may wonder how that can occur, but it happens that all the righteous are in the Holy City at the time, no longer among the nations.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
It is all a simple read to the pure of heart, but you have studied the ideas of others instead of just reading the pure word.
LA
Interplanner
Well-known member
That which you are describing is right now, through the proclamation that Christ is enthroned and reigns. The darkness may hide it, the eye of sinful man may not see it, but what else is new?
and it still only appeals to individuals. there are no appeals to nations involved anywhere in the NT. Nations are mentioned as extensions of individuals but there are no appeals to Germany or Brazil, nor a war between two nations that is "the wrath of God" separate from the final session of judgement before his throne.
and it still only appeals to individuals. there are no appeals to nations involved anywhere in the NT. Nations are mentioned as extensions of individuals but there are no appeals to Germany or Brazil, nor a war between two nations that is "the wrath of God" separate from the final session of judgement before his throne.
Men still learn war, so the saints do not reign over the nations now.
Isa 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
Isa 2:3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
Isa 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
Interplanner
Well-known member
Agreed. But you are a poor communicator. Are you referring to a theocratic millenium out of Israel, or the NHNE? Try to reread enough to know what the vital distinction is so that you speak to that.
I already explained that in previous posts which you ignored, because you are more interested in your own views than that of the Bible.
LA
Interplanner
Well-known member
Neither. I simply don't know which one you meant.
Two games were being played in downtown Seattle one Saturday evening, Mariners and Sounders. We went to a restaurant in between. My son phoned while we were there and said he'd be at the game, and hung up.
Poor communication skills.
Two games were being played in downtown Seattle one Saturday evening, Mariners and Sounders. We went to a restaurant in between. My son phoned while we were there and said he'd be at the game, and hung up.
Poor communication skills.
Poor upbringing?
:lol:
Interplanner wrote "My son phoned while we were there and said he'd be at the game, and hung up. Poor communication skills."
I responded 'Poor upbringing?'
I was ribbing Inter :laugh:
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Typical evolutionist: Demands answers and demands that they not be from the source that gives them.
Interplanner
Well-known member
Is this a response to one of the evolution-creation threads here by mistake, or do you not know what you are looking at in Acts 13's sermon, Acts 26's hearing, Rom 3-4, Gal 3-4, Eph 2-3, 2 Cor 3-5, Heb 8-10 about Israel?
Futurism and D'ism wobble on 1-2 individual lines. They are not doctrinally sound. They know nothing of how the NT interps the OT.
If there was evolution, it did not produce this world as we know it (the world of Gen 1). It may have resulted in the 'formless and void' earth before 1:2. That was pre-existing what God formed in 1:3+.