ECT The Definition of Musterion and why the Gospel was not a Mystery

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
Quick primer, saint john.


Mystery of Christ- that Christ died for the sins of Jews and Gentiles in the promises, hidden in the scriptures until God revealed it.

Mystery of the Gospel- that Christ died for all men, to be testified in due time, including Gentiles who were not in the promises. Not hidden in the scriptures, but hidden in God.

Well stated, Mayor....Well stated.
 

musterion

Well-known member
Quick primer, saint john.


Mystery of Christ- that Christ died for the sins of Jews and Gentiles in the promises, hidden in the scriptures until God revealed it.

Mystery of the Gospel- that Christ died for all men, to be testified in due time, including Gentiles who were not in the promises. Not hidden in the scriptures, but hidden in God.


Every single person in the Bible knew both of those from the beginning.

- Dodge

and most of TOL
 

dodge

New member
Every single person in the Bible knew both of those from the beginning.

- Dodge

and most of TOL

O slow of hearing NOT what I said. What I did say was after the resurrection and Jesus in Luke 24 opening their understanding to the scriptures they were at that time all on the same page.

The D.B.R. and salvation by grace was prophesied in the OT.
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
O slow of hearing NOT what I said. What I did say was after the resurrection and Jesus in Luke 24 opening their understanding to the scriptures they were at that time all on the same page.

The D.B.R. and salvation by grace was prophesied in the OT.

Dodge-ism actually ignores a large portion of scripture. Does Dodge-ism read the bible? It says what it says. Can Dodge-ism read? Dodge-ism is out of context!!! Dodge-ism follows lies, and errors!!! Dodge-ism teaches the doctrine of men, and ignore scriptures, to follow lies. DODGE-ISM(in CAPS) is deceived, and blind. My prayer for Dodge-ism is that it quits following other men who are trapped in lies and error. If Dodge-ism had a bible they might want to actually read it ! Dodge-ism is too busy creating a false gospel. I do not need to pervert the context of scripture to follow lies as do those in delusional Dodge-ism. The bible says Doge-ism is wrong ! I will stay with scripture. Obviously Dodge-ism uses Jesus and Paul as window dressing and follows neither in reality.Dodge-ism idolizes Peter and ignores Jesus. The answer is in scripture which Dodge-ism has become expert at "changing" to fit Dodge-ism. Dodge-ism interpretation is wrong. Dodge-ism needs to get a bible and read it-it is in the bible. Dodge-ism is deceived. Dodge-ism ignores scripture to follow lies. I have not made Peter my pope and I do not marginalize Jesus to elevate Peter, as that is uniquely Dodge-ism and Catholicism. Dodge-ism is delusional, has errors, and lies. Dodge-ism is a product of missing the TRUTH AND MEANING OF most OF THE SCRIPTURE.Dodge-ism perverts and changes Paul's teachings to follow other deceived men.
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
O slow of hearing NOT what I said. What I did say was after the resurrection and Jesus in Luke 24 opening their understanding to the scriptures they were at that time all on the same page.

The D.B.R. and salvation by grace was prophesied in the OT.

Peter initially denied the resurrection. When was he saved? Can one deny the resurrection, and be saved?



Not a peep from the mutt, after being asked, for 2 months.
 

dodge

New member
Dodge-ism actually ignores a large portion of scripture. Does Dodge-ism read the bible? It says what it says. Can Dodge-ism read? Dodge-ism is out of context!!! Dodge-ism follows lies, and errors!!! Dodge-ism teaches the doctrine of men, and ignore scriptures, to follow lies. DODGE-ISM(in CAPS) is deceived, and blind. My prayer for Dodge-ism is that it quits following other men who are trapped in lies and error. If Dodge-ism had a bible they might want to actually read it ! Dodge-ism is too busy creating a false gospel. I do not need to pervert the context of scripture to follow lies as do those in delusional Dodge-ism. The bible says Doge-ism is wrong ! I will stay with scripture. Obviously Dodge-ism uses Jesus and Paul as window dressing and follows neither in reality.Dodge-ism idolizes Peter and ignores Jesus. The answer is in scripture which Dodge-ism has become expert at "changing" to fit Dodge-ism. Dodge-ism interpretation is wrong. Dodge-ism needs to get a bible and read it-it is in the bible. Dodge-ism is deceived. Dodge-ism ignores scripture to follow lies. I have not made Peter my pope and I do not marginalize Jesus to elevate Peter, as that is uniquely Dodge-ism and Catholicism. Dodge-ism is delusional, has errors, and lies. Dodge-ism is a product of missing the TRUTH AND MEANING OF most OF THE SCRIPTURE.Dodge-ism perverts and changes Paul's teachings to follow other deceived men.

lol, tard, you have me confused with those in MAD.
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
lol, tard, you have me confused with those in MAD.

You call almost every one a "tard," you pervert, as you have that dung mouth of yours in the sulfur of your daddy devil's hell.

Peter initially denied the resurrection. When was he saved? Can one deny the resurrection, and be saved?



Not a peep from the mutt, after being asked, for 2 months.



ANSWER THE QUESTION, DUNG BREATH.

You taught us caps, loser.
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
lol, tard, you have me confused with those in MAD.

Dodge-ism actually ignores a large portion of scripture. Does Dodge-ism read the bible? It says what it says. Can Dodge-ism read? Dodge-ism is out of context!!! Dodge-ism follows lies, and errors!!! Dodge-ism teaches the doctrine of men, and ignore scriptures, to follow lies. DODGE-ISM(in CAPS) is deceived, and blind. My prayer for Dodge-ism is that it quits following other men who are trapped in lies and error. If Dodge-ism had a bible they might want to actually read it ! Dodge-ism is too busy creating a false gospel. I do not need to pervert the context of scripture to follow lies as do those in delusional Dodge-ism. The bible says Doge-ism is wrong ! I will stay with scripture. Obviously Dodge-ism uses Jesus and Paul as window dressing and follows neither in reality.Dodge-ism idolizes Peter and ignores Jesus. The answer is in scripture which Dodge-ism has become expert at "changing" to fit Dodge-ism. Dodge-ism interpretation is wrong. Dodge-ism needs to get a bible and read it-it is in the bible. Dodge-ism is deceived. Dodge-ism ignores scripture to follow lies. I have not made Peter my pope and I do not marginalize Jesus to elevate Peter, as that is uniquely Dodge-ism and Catholicism. Dodge-ism is delusional, has errors, and lies. Dodge-ism is a product of missing the TRUTH AND MEANING OF most OF THE SCRIPTURE.Dodge-ism perverts and changes Paul's teachings to follow other deceived men.
 

Danoh

New member
Quick primer, saint john.


Mystery of Christ- that Christ died for the sins of Jews and Gentiles in the promises, hidden in the scriptures until God revealed it.

Mystery of the Gospel- that Christ died for all men, to be testified in due time, including Gentiles who were not in the promises. Not hidden in the scriptures, but hidden in God.

:rotfl:

Prime it over all you want, your error still seeps through.

Pauline Mysteries are ALL unique to, and concern the Body of Christ.

Yours is nothing more than the result of an incompetent attempt by those who influenced you into their same error - their attempt to solve for problems seemingly not solved for from the Acts 9 position by attempting to solve for them from where the Acts 28 position erroneously thinks it does.

Thus, the Hybrid designation - your results are neither those of the Acts 9 position, nor those of the Acts 28.

Lol - talk about another gospel, which is not another.

:chuckle:
 

Danoh

New member

And the misses just keep on a comin - must be one more o them there hybridisms :chuckle:

John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
 

intojoy

BANNED
Banned
The Definition of Musterion and why the Gospel was not a Mystery

Salvation of the Gentiles in addition to saving Jews by the Servant of Jehovah.. not a mystery. Foretold by Isaiah.

Like I said my children, unless you redefine the musterion you cannot call the gospel a musterion. It was not unrevealed in the OT it was revealed by the Hebrew prophets that the Messiah was to die a sacrificial death for the sins of Israel and Isaiah pointed out that it would have been to small a thing for Messiah to only die for Israel thus Messiah would die for Gentiles too. Saul to negro, child please!


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Interplanner

New member
I'm just trying to find errors. Iron sharpens iron. If I'm wrong at least you guys compel me to study more. Otherwise I'd probably just watch reality tv all day long. I'm more interested now in the church's role during the 1000 years than trying to discredit MAD. Because that's going to be a long period of time.

If the bride of Christ is not with Him during His reign that means she goes thru a lennngggthy period of separation from her Husband. Is that warranted?

Also, like MADists, I believe in once saved always saved and so rather than telling Christians that they can lose their salvation I tell them that for 1000 years they will live in a state of regret that they did not live their life for the Lord while here in this life. And that there will be different degrees of authority given to the believers during Messiah's reign, some have no authority.

It is important to study and learn the entire counsel of the Word of God. That must only be done by using a strict literal hermeneutic that includes taking relevant passages into context in order to understand what has been declared.

Now if the believers of verse 4a were given to judgement, what judgement is the Holy Spirit pointing at here? Firstly John is relating prophetic content. The fact is that believers have already been raptured before the Tribulation and have already gone to the judgement of the Bema Seat of Yeshua. That judgement is for reward or loss of reward. Fruchtenbaum takes vs 4a as the first of three categories of believers that will enter the kingdom of our Husband the Messiah of Israel.
It makes no sense to me that we would not share in Messiah's kingdom and according to this passage we do partake and serve God during this time.

Israel is only special in that God called them by a national election. But that calling was on part to serve as a teaching lesson for all mankind. The lesson is that God will one day elevate Israel as head of the nations. That does not mean they are merited for that purpose it means that God keeps His word to those who don't keep their word. Thus there is no reason to assume that Israel is any better than the church in their destiny or ministry, we are equal and will have an equal share of work to do in the kingdom. The difference being that Jewish believers will live in Israel while Gentile believers will rule in other countries over the sheep nations who enter the kingdom in natural non glorified bodies who populate the planet with both those who get saved and those who die during the period.




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IntoJ:
A lot of this needs to be reset.

The long reign of Christ is now; the announcement is made in ch 17 and we have the marriage going on now of Christ and his bride, cp Eph 5.

There is no return to a separate reign on earth as in a political entity, a revived monarchy. Rather at the end of this reign, there is a short rebellion and harassment of the believers, and it is defeated by the final coming, judgement and change of this world to the NHNE.

By seeing these things you will then be aligned with 2 Peter 3, the longest and most complete ordinary language statement about the end of time. Ordinary = without symbolism upon symbolism.
 

Danoh

New member
Salvation of the Gentiles in addition to saving Jews by the Servant of Jehovah.. not a mystery. Foretold by Isaiah.

Like I said my children, unless you redefine the musterion you cannot call the gospel a musterion. It was not unrevealed in the OT it was revealed by the Hebrew prophets that the Messiah was to die a sacrificial death for the sins of Israel and Isaiah pointed out that it would have been to small a thing for Messiah to only die for Israel thus Messiah would die for Gentiles too. Saul to negro, child please!


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A solid post, more or less.

That is partly the view of the ACTUAL Acts 9 Position aka Mid-Acts Dispensationalism, or M.A.D.

THAT is PARTLY why I disagree with the Acts 9 / Acts 28 Hybrid being represented on here by most as so called MAD.
 

intojoy

BANNED
Banned
Salvation of the Gentiles in addition to saving Jews by the Servant of Jehovah.. not a mystery. Foretold by Isaiah.

Like I said my children, unless you redefine the musterion you cannot call the gospel a musterion. It was not unrevealed in the OT it was revealed by the Hebrew prophets that the Messiah was to die a sacrificial death for the sins of Israel and Isaiah pointed out that it would have been to small a thing for Messiah to only die for Israel thus Messiah would die for Gentiles too. Saul to negro, child please!


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Waiting for the new definition.


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glorydaz

New member
Waiting for the new definition.


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I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, intojoy, but I thought the mystery part of the Gospel was that we would be created IN CHRIST JESUS when we believed.

Eph. 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Colossians 1:26-28
Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
 

intojoy

BANNED
Banned
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, intojoy, but I thought the mystery part of the Gospel was that we would be created IN CHRIST JESUS when we believed.

Eph. 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Colossians 1:26-28
Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

The gospel is not a mystery. Christ indwelling each believer or better put, the Messiah of the Old Testament indwelling each individual believer was a mystery tho


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intojoy

BANNED
Banned
In order for the gospel Paul preached to be a musterion the gospel must have been unrevealed in the OT.
Otherwise, since the gospel was known before the NT, you would have to redefine the musterion- Paul's technical term so that it could have been known in the OT, hence not really a mystery.

Listen up, I can see how Jerry comes to be a MADist. You don't have to make the gospel a musterion in order to believe the way he does. But perhaps due to a lack of powerful persuasive evidence you throw in the verses about Paul being the minister of the musterions as evidence to believe in Mad.

The purpose of this thread is to define the Pauline musterion and show that the gospel had already been revealed in the OT. Therefore unless you can define the musterion in another way, quit using it to defend Mad. It can't fly with those who've mastered the entire counsel of the word of truth and have their senses exercised to discern right from wrong by the word of God.

No charge for that.


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