ECT The Bride of Christ
- Thread starter PhilipJames
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vfirestormv
Member
This one should do nicely:
Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Yes.
Christ inaugurated only one covenant for all mankind regardless of their flesh, Jew or gentile, male or female.
There is one covenant, one Throne, one King, one people.
LA
ur a pretty fart smeller, intojoy. you work at a church huh ?
musterion
Well-known member
Dan, a question...
Paul said he and others were ministers of the spirit of the new testament/covenant (or as some prefer, ministers of a new testament/covenant). My question for you, who did Paul minister it to? To unbelieving Israel in his provoking ministry? To Gentiles but only by grace? To both? Opinions on this vary widely in the grace movement, as you know. Thanks...
Paul said he and others were ministers of the spirit of the new testament/covenant (or as some prefer, ministers of a new testament/covenant). My question for you, who did Paul minister it to? To unbelieving Israel in his provoking ministry? To Gentiles but only by grace? To both? Opinions on this vary widely in the grace movement, as you know. Thanks...
This won't do.
I think you are too much a bible scholar to allow such sloppy exegesis stand.
What are you advocating two weddings? one for the "brethren who have gone before" and one for those who will join them? but at the second resurrection the dead in Christ rise first then we who remain are caught up together with them. The church is together, the bride of Christ, we come with Him.
Do you think the oil in the lamp is a good analogy for the Holy Ghost? now we know that parables are set forth to teach one particular message, in this case being prepared, we must not over strain the meaning of the symbols used. But surely the Lord does not use poor or downright wrong analogy.
For if the oil were the Holy Ghost we see that even the unwise had some oil but it ran out...is that an analogy for the Holy Spirit? and they are advised to go to the dealers and buy.
Then also we have the number 10, in scripture the number 10 is a world number.
The message is clearly [not stay awake for they ALL slept and slumbered] but make preparation against the day, but to WHO is the warning given? I cannot see it is the church. The MADianites will say it is the Jews, I understand that but do not think so.
It points [in my opinion] to a much wider mercy than is commonly supposed by the evangelical church. It is my humble opinion that the whole doctrine of the final judgement is in sore need of a complete overhaul and rethink. Things have been skated over for too long.
If you believe as I do that the church is saved by grace through faith alone then many of the parables [such as the talents] make no sense whatever. Even the judgement clearly shown in Matt. 25 we see the righteous sheep receive an inheritance as reward for works.
Hi and a good question for dispensationalists , and many are stumped by Rom 11:25 where the translators , used new Testament .
#1 , One problem , is how does anyone translate DIATHEKE ?
#2 , Is the Body of Christ a Covenant Body , NO !!
#3 , Eph 2:12 to me is explicit that we are NEVER under the New Covenant ?
#4 The New Testament is explained in Ezk 36:24-38 ,
#5, Eph 2:15 , says we are a New Man , NOT a New Covenant Man ,.
#6 , So , the New Covenant is for Israel ALONE !!
#7 , So , then what does the NEW DIATHEKE mean in 1 Cor 11:25 ?
#8 , It means a NEW ARRANGEMENT !!
#9 , All will notice the Difference between Matt 26:28 also uses the Phrase NEW TESTAMENT using the same Greek word DIATHEKE , BUT in verse 29 Jesus and the 12 apostles will eat it again in the Father's Kingdom , seem to Excludes the RCC Priests , does it not !!
#10 , 1 Cor 11:25 - 34 is way different !!
The problem with translations is Transliteralation and that means words in Greek are not similar with English words .
The KJV was translated by MOSTLY Acts 2 people !!
Another problem is in 2 Thess 2:3 where there comes " a falling away " which means a Departure !!
I hope that I address your question ?
dan p
dan p
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Hi , NO , Paul was a Dispensationalist and Not a Law preacher NOR a Covenant preacher as Paul was Saved by Grace , in Gal 1:15 called by Grace .
Covenant Theology is just as bad as Acts 2 and Pentescotalism , just SYMBOLISM over SUBSTANCE !!
It does not take much to see they do not have answers at all !!
DAN P
Hi and the New Covenant was given to Israel as the Old Covenant waxed old in Heb 9:15 !!
dan p
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Not once does the phrase "Bride of Christ" appear in the Scriptures. All allusions to marriage in reference to Christ and the church/Israel are illustrations and nothing more.
Hi ,and many dispensationalists also fall to Universal Salvation , Soul Sleep , that the 12 apostles are in the Body of Christ and some believe Col 1:25 was also known by OT Prophets !!
dan p
musterion
Well-known member
Yep! Thanks.
PhilipJames
New member
Hello Totton,
I wouldn't consider myself a biblical 'scholar.. certainly not in any academic sense of the word. I have, however, heard scripture proclaimed since I was a babe, and have read it since I was quite young.. I would say that it has been 'written on my heart', but I couldn't quote it chapter and verse to you. When in a discussion something brings to my mind something in scripture, I often have to go searching for it to find the appropriate citation to share with others...
I think you misunderstood me. Probably my fault for not being clear enough....
There has been only one wedding. Jesus united Himself with HIS bride at the inception of the New Covenant.
The feast that celebrates that covenant is the 'wedding feast'. And that feast will be celebrated forever in heaven... this is the 'eternal feast' to which I was referring.
The feast of the New Covenant that we celebrate here, in this world, anticipates that heavenly feast.
Do you know the story of Tobiah? It is a foreshadowing of Christ and HIS Church.
Tobiah leaves his father Tobit's house, and goes to a kinsman's house where he marries Sarah. On the night of their wedding he frees her from the demon that jealously guards her. The next day the wedding feast begins there in Tobiah's father-in laws house. Then they head back to Tobit's house, and Tobiah goes on ahead to prepare a place for his bride. When the bride arrives, the feast continues in his father's house.
Agreed. But I'm not sure how you are using that in relation to the wedding feast. Please explain.
Interesting. I had never thought of the oil as the Spirit.... As you said, 'they all slept'... to me it has always referred to those who no longer are eagerly anticipating the imminent return of the Lord... Some however continue to practice their faith (love God and one another) and some turn back to the world pursing things of this world.
I also think that GOD's mercy is much wider than many suppose. In my opinion ( and I stress this is my personal opinion.. Jesus Himself will of course judge as HE wills) Christ's death for the world has changed the default position, for the world, from that of being dead and having to choose life to that of living and having to choose death.
I believe HE will judge not based on our knowledge, but on our hearts, those who in their hearts seek life and righteousness will not be damned for ignorance.
However, those of us to whom knowledge of the Truth has been given will be called to a higher account. (to him that has been given much, much will be expected)
I do believe we are saved by Grace through faith. But not through faith alone.. (as I believe Matt 25 shows as well as many other places)
I believe that we are saved by Grace, through faith that loves!
Without love for GOD and for one another, our 'faith' is worthless... we have no oil in our lamps, sharing no light with those around us.
Peace!
PJ
I wouldn't consider myself a biblical 'scholar.. certainly not in any academic sense of the word. I have, however, heard scripture proclaimed since I was a babe, and have read it since I was quite young.. I would say that it has been 'written on my heart', but I couldn't quote it chapter and verse to you. When in a discussion something brings to my mind something in scripture, I often have to go searching for it to find the appropriate citation to share with others...
I think you misunderstood me. Probably my fault for not being clear enough....
There has been only one wedding. Jesus united Himself with HIS bride at the inception of the New Covenant.
The feast that celebrates that covenant is the 'wedding feast'. And that feast will be celebrated forever in heaven... this is the 'eternal feast' to which I was referring.
The feast of the New Covenant that we celebrate here, in this world, anticipates that heavenly feast.
Do you know the story of Tobiah? It is a foreshadowing of Christ and HIS Church.
Tobiah leaves his father Tobit's house, and goes to a kinsman's house where he marries Sarah. On the night of their wedding he frees her from the demon that jealously guards her. The next day the wedding feast begins there in Tobiah's father-in laws house. Then they head back to Tobit's house, and Tobiah goes on ahead to prepare a place for his bride. When the bride arrives, the feast continues in his father's house.
Agreed. But I'm not sure how you are using that in relation to the wedding feast. Please explain.
Interesting. I had never thought of the oil as the Spirit.... As you said, 'they all slept'... to me it has always referred to those who no longer are eagerly anticipating the imminent return of the Lord... Some however continue to practice their faith (love God and one another) and some turn back to the world pursing things of this world.
I also think that GOD's mercy is much wider than many suppose. In my opinion ( and I stress this is my personal opinion.. Jesus Himself will of course judge as HE wills) Christ's death for the world has changed the default position, for the world, from that of being dead and having to choose life to that of living and having to choose death.
I believe HE will judge not based on our knowledge, but on our hearts, those who in their hearts seek life and righteousness will not be damned for ignorance.
However, those of us to whom knowledge of the Truth has been given will be called to a higher account. (to him that has been given much, much will be expected)
I do believe we are saved by Grace through faith. But not through faith alone.. (as I believe Matt 25 shows as well as many other places)
I believe that we are saved by Grace, through faith that loves!
Without love for GOD and for one another, our 'faith' is worthless... we have no oil in our lamps, sharing no light with those around us.
Peace!
PJ
Hi , and here the FALLACY of your post !!
#1 , The passage you are talking about in Matt 25:1 speaks to Israel's Millennial Kingdon !!
#2 , There no CHRISTIAN / CHRISTISNOS here at all as the Greek for Christian does not appear until Acts 11:26 !!
#3 , The Oil in the Lamps is not the Holy Spirit ! Prove it !!!!!!!!!
#4 , The Holy Spirit had not YET been pour out , as Christ was still among Israel >
#5 Here is a verse that Proves you are both WRONG !!
#6 , Explain John 7:39 , IF you can ??:deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse:
dan p
For I am jealous over you with a godly jealousy: for I espoused you to one husband, that I might present you as a pure virgin to Christ. Speaking to a part of the Church, the local church found in the city of Corinth, Paul declares that by means of evangelism, they were espoused ... to one husband for the purpose of eventually being presented as a pure virgin to Christ. The means by which this will be accomplished is, of course, by the process of sanctification. Unlike Israel, who was guilty of adultery, when the union comes between the Messiah and the Church, the Church will be presented as a pure virgin.
PhilipJames
New member
He said this in reference to the Spirit that those who came to believe in him were to receive. There was, of course, no Spirit yet, 'because Jesus had not yet been glorified.
At the time Jesus was speaking, HE had not yet risen from the dead and ascended into heaven.
This is also why Jesus says:
But I tell you the truth, it is better for you that I go. For if I do not go, the Advocate will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.
John 16:7
Dan,
I suggest you contemplate what it means to speak the truth in love.
It may improve your witness...
Peace!
PJ
Hi and I am trying to get you to think and it does you know good to kill the messenger , like the Jews killed Jesus , who did not like the message to repent !
I suggest that you read what I have written and do 1 Cor 11:1 as it will IMPROVE your theology as in Eph 3:9 !!
They had many complaints against Paul , like he was slow of speech and of little height !!
So what , because One plants and One waters , but God gives the Increase !! 1 Cor 3:6 .
Read Phil 3:18 and then tell me if these are believers ??
You think that I am to tough on you ??
dan p
PhilipJames
New member
I appreciate that, truly I do.
you mean these? Their end is destruction. Their God is their stomach; their glory is in their "shame." Their minds are occupied with earthly things.
I would have to say no... but they might think they are...
dan,
It is not a question of being tough. by all means be tough and firm in your convictions!
But I find (and it may not be your intent) that your posts tend to be mocking of those who don't hold the same beliefs as you.
If you believe you follow the Truth and they are in error, leading them to that Truth can be a delicate matter. ( a bruised reed I will not break)
I am just suggesting that you choose your words (and emoticons
) more carefully.Peace!
PJ