All excellent examples of passages where the Calvinist reads their doctrine into the text.
None of these teach omniscience in the classical sense of the term.
The Book of Revelation: Mystery Or Profitable?
- Thread starter Arial
- Start date
None of these teach omniscience in the classical sense of the term.
I just made the argument. Do I need to flip you the bird, so we can have better understanding?
No, you made the claim. That isn't the same thing as making an argument. Arguments have premises and conclusions which logically follow from those premises.
In short, saying it doesn't make it so, Omniskeptical. Just showing up and stating as though it were a fact that if God isn't omniscient in the classical sense of the term then He "can be deceived, regardless of his supposed superiority" doesn't make it an actual fact.
Now, you said it could be argued, so argue it! What argument can be made that leads to that conclusion?
Let me guess!
You've got NOTHING!
Surprise me!
Clete
Arial
Active member
Omniscience means omniscience. It only becomes "classical" omniscience (therefore not valid I guess) if you need to change the clear meaning of the scriptures to fit some heresy.
God existed throughout eternity past.
No, He didn't. It's not a thing to be created. @Clete can explain it better than I can.
Who are you talking about?
Whaddya know! I was right!
See? No argument presented, no explanation given. Just claims.
But you won't make that argument, will you?
I submit that it CANNOT be argued, because it's simply not true.
Why do you think that if God were not omniscient, He couldn't determine the truth of a matter? Do you think such a God would be incompetent?
Because the God I believe in is OMNICOMPETENT, He can look at a man's heart/mind and know his thoughts before he even turns those thoughts into speech. He can know the desires of man. Yet He doesn't have to have all knowledge to be able to do that!
You're gonna have to explain that one, because I'm not seeing the connection between "Triune nature" and "non-existence" or "lacking power."
You make lots of claims, but you have yet to present a single argument.
Keep talking like this and you WILL be booted from the forum, permanently.
Spouting tautologies won't help your case here, Arial.
"omni" = all
"science" = knowledge
"omniscience" = all knowing
It's a concept that originated with the pagan Greek philosophers, who believed that their gods were, because they were perfect, unable to change at all, thus, if their god changed (such as learning new information), then their god would cease to be perfect.
I recommend reading this article by Christopher Fischer, someone I met recently, and who has his own podcast.
the greek origin of omniscience
The concept of omniscience in rooted in the idea of God’s “perfection”. In platonism, the perfect cannot change. Thus, if god changed (such as learning new information) then god would not be perfec…
realityisnotoptional.com
The heresy is that God cannot change (immutability), that He cannot be affected by his creation (impassible), that He is everywhere at once (omnipresent), that He has all knowledge (omniscient), and that He has all power (omnipotent).
What the Bible says is that God DOES change, He IS affected by His creation, that He learns, that He has given some of His power to some of His created beings, and that God does not have to be where He doesn't want to be, as there are places mentioned in the Bible where God is not.
You mean like the end of Job proves nothing. I guess stupid will always win, because he is just that dumb.
God changes what he does, but it doesn't mean God's is mutable.Spouting tautologies won't help your case here, Arial.
"omni" = all
"science" = knowledge
"omniscience" = all knowing
It's a concept that originated with the pagan Greek philosophers, who believed that their gods were, because they were perfect, unable to change at all, thus, if their god changed (such as learning new information), then their god would cease to be perfect.
I recommend reading this article by Christopher Fischer, someone I met recently, and who has his own podcast.
the greek origin of omniscience
The concept of omniscience in rooted in the idea of God’s “perfection”. In platonism, the perfect cannot change. Thus, if god changed (such as learning new information) then god would not be perfec…
The heresy is that God cannot change (immutability), that He cannot be affected by his creation (impassible), that He is everywhere at once (omnipresent), that He has all knowledge (omniscient), and that He has all power (omnipotent).
What the Bible says is that God DOES change, He IS affected by His creation, that He learns, that He has given some of His power to some of His created beings, and that God does not have to be where He doesn't want to be, as there are places mentioned in the Bible where God is not.
So you don't believe that time was created from what was not. Tell @Clete to prove it. I think he can't
I don't entirely disagree with you but I'm also ready to clarify my intent whenever anyone asks about why I phrase it the way I do.
I believe that God knows everything knowable that He wants to know and that there is nothing that can be hidden in a manner that is past His finding out. In that sense, it is not inaccurate to refer to God as being all knowing or "omniscient" so long as one is aware that this is not in keeping with the classical meaning of those terms.
Clete
What are you talking about?
Just make the argument or admit that your mouth got ahead of your brain and that you can't do it.
It is not my burden to prove that something was NOT done, however....
God created the physical universe in six days. Time is not a physical thing, it is an idea. It's just an intellectual construct that we use to communicate information about the duration and sequence of events relative to other events. It does not exist ontologically and thus was not created.
Clete
No, he created the Earth in six days. The ground and the elevations.
Very unscientific and untrue.
Explain ontologically. Time was created to make events possible for everyone.
God doing anything is a change, therefore God is not immutable.
Time wasn't created, period.
Clete answered this already.
Scripture doesn't support you:
For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it. - Exodus 20:11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus20:11&version=NKJV
Saying it doesn't make it so.
God creating something for the first time wasn't an event itself? Do you see the problem yet?
Not at all.
You don't see the problem? Or are you claiming that God creating wasn't an event in and of itself?
huh? and never
Last edited:
I don't see the problem.
You said:
So I asked:
First, answer this: Was God creating an event in and of itself?