ECT The Bema

[musterion]

I don't believe in rewards, other than the promised inheritance of all in Christ. I believe the verse in question is speaking of the reward of what remains, as opposed to what is burned up.

So...part of our inheritance may be burned up? Just trying to understand you on this?

 

[Doom]

So...part of our inheritance may be burned up? Just trying to understand you on this?

Oh no. I'll try and post my expository view, when I get a chance to write it, and make it clear.

I could be wrong, but I just don't see the idea of receiving rewards for something only Jesus can do.

 

[musterion]

Intrigued. I await.

 

[heir]

Oh no. I'll try and post my expository view, when I get a chance to write it, and make it clear.

I could be wrong, but I just don't see the idea of receiving rewards for something only Jesus can do.

Not works, but work as in the work of the ministry.

1 Corinthians 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

And I don't think it's rewards, but a reward.

 

[jamie]

"For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels and then he shall reward every man according to his works." (Jesus)

 

[musterion]

Not works, but work as in the work of the ministry.

1 Corinthians 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

And I don't think it's rewards, but a reward.

I never saw that before either. :up:

 

[musterion]

"For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels and then he shall reward every man according to his works." (Jesus)

Context.

 

[Doom]

Not works, but work as in the work of the ministry.

1 Corinthians 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

And I don't think it's rewards, but a reward.

I agree, which is why I think that the reward is what remains, not something additional.

 

[jamie]

Context.

The context is Jesus' answer to the question presented in the OP. If you don't like what he said then tell him so.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Mat 25:14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
Mat 25:15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
Mat 25:16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
Mat 25:17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
Mat 25:18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
Mat 25:19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
Mat 25:20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
Mat 25:21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Mat 25:22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
Mat 25:23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Mat 25:24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
Mat 25:25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
Mat 25:26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
Mat 25:27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
Mat 25:28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
Mat 25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
Mat 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[Tambora]

Not works, but work as in the work of the ministry.

1 Corinthians 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

And I don't think it's rewards, but a reward.

I agree, which is why I think that the reward is what remains, not something additional.

The greek word used for "reward" is the same as a wage paid.
Since is it for YOUR WORKS that you have already done before you die, then your wage paid has to be compensated somehow.
And as I have said, I believe this to be about how you conducted yourself in this life that will determine how much or little territory you can judge the world in the millennial kingdom.

Your reward will be much or little, depending on the outcome of your works in this life.
But your sin wage has already been paid, so that does not factor into this "reward" business.

 

[Tambora]

I always pictured the Bema as taking place at the rapture, but for it to happen individually at the point of each one's passing would certainly seem a possibility. Actually, it appears to be a very logical possibility.


Hey, this thread has actually had some good discussion.....mostly.

Yes, it is coming along nicely!

It's iron sharpening iron time.
YAY!

 

[Nick M]

What rapture?

He is using a term that should not be used. That is latin and means great joy. Paul spoke of the departure of the chuch (not you) and being saved from the wrath to come (tribulation-for you).

The events do not happen until the departure of the church.

 

[DAN P]

Yes, it is coming along nicely!

It's iron sharpening iron time.
YAY!

Hi and no one mentioned 2 Cor 5:10 , It is necessary for all of us to made manifest in FRONT of the BEMA SEAT ( called the Judgment Seat ) of Christ in order that each ONE may receive back the things ( done ) by the Body , according to what things H e PRACTISED , whether Good or Bad !

#1 , If Christ is not God , you are Excused , as you will be there !!

#2 , All will be made KNOWN before Christ !

#3 , The BEMA SEAT is where we will be Judged !

#4 , Notice that they are Good and Bad things , are you Pentecostals reading this ?

#5 The verb " must " is in the Present Tense , so all Gracers will be there .

#6 , The verb " may receive /KOMIZO , is controlled by the Subjunction Mood and some will not RECEIVE NO REWARDS .

All not saved by Grace , do not have to worry , and you will never know what happened !

dan p

dan p

 

[DAN P]

Yes, it is coming along nicely!

It's iron sharpening iron time.
YAY!

Hi and no one mentioned 2 Cor 5:10 , It is necessary for all of us to made manifest in FRONT of the BEMA SEAT ( called the Judgment Seat ) of Christ in order that each ONE may receive back the things ( done ) by the Body , according to what things H e PRACTISED , whether Good or Bad !

#1 , If Christ is not God , you are Excused , as you will be there !!

#2 , All will be made KNOWN before Christ !

#3 , The BEMA SEAT is where we will be Judged !

#4 , Notice that they are Good and Bad things , are you Pentecostals reading this ?

#5 The verb " must " is in the Present Tense , so all Gracers will be there .

#6 , The verb " may receive /KOMIZO , is controlled by the Subjunctive Mood and some will not RECEIVE NO REWARDS .

All not saved by Grace , do not have to worry , and you will never know what happened !

dan p

dan p

 

[Nick M]

Mat 25:14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.

Just stop posting you fool. The mystery of the Body of Christ was not revealed until Paul. It was never spoken of before him. Those letters are to Israel who has to earn an earthly kingdom.

 

[Nick M]

Hi and no one mentioned 2 Cor 5:10 , It is necessary for all of us to made manifest in FRONT of the BEMA SEAT ( called the Judgment Seat ) of Christ in order that each ONE may receive back the things ( done ) by the Body , according to what things H e PRACTISED , whether Good or Bad !

#1 , If Christ is not God , you are Excused , as you will be there !!

#2 , All will be made KNOWN before Christ !

#3 , The BEMA SEAT is where we will be Judged !

#4 , Notice that they are Good and Bad things , are you Pentecostals reading this ?

#5 The verb " must " is in the Present Tense , so all Gracers will be there .

#6 , The verb " may receive /KOMIZO , is controlled by the Subjunctive Mood and some will not RECEIVE NO REWARDS .

All not saved by Grace , do not have to worry , and you will never know what happened !

dan p

dan p

Sometimes you seem to go different directions, but I think what you are saying goes with what I see in English. Paul said he warns others of this seat, but we are well known to him.

 

[DAN P]

He is using a term that should not be used. That is latin and means great joy. Paul spoke of the departure of the chuch (not you) and being saved from the wrath to come (tribulation-for you).

The events do not happen until the departure of the church.

Hi , and Departure is the word to use , very good !!

dan p

 

[DAN P]

He is using a term that should not be used. That is latin and means great joy. Paul spoke of the departure of the chuch (not you) and being saved from the wrath to come (tribulation-for you).

The events do not happen until the departure of the church.

Hi , and Departure is the word to use , very good !!

I am always amazed how many dispensationalist like that word Rapture !

dan p

 

[Nick M]

Hi , and Departure is the word to use , very good !!

dan p

I picked it up from Bob Hill on his defunct website.

Paul had comforted the Thessalonian believers with the hope of the rapture in his first letter. Because of the intensity of persecution, though, confusion had set in. These suffering believers were afraid that the awful day of the Lord had come upon them. When Paul learned that his teaching (5:4) had been misinterpreted, he wrote a second letter for clarification. In order to assure them they were not experiencing the day of the Lord, he extended a guarantee to them: that day cannot come “unless the departure comes first, and the man of sin is revealed” (2:3). The interpretation of Paul’s promise depends on the meaning of the word ajpostasiva. This noun is compounded from ajpov, “away from,” and stavsi", “position, stance”, from i{sthmi, “stand.” Literally, the act of positioning oneself away is a departure or separation. That’s how we have rendered it. In secular Greek, this noun was used to refer to separatist political groups. From this sense, LXX employed it to denote “rebellion,” especially against God. Since James was familiar with the Greek Old Testament (he cites it in Acts 15:16-18 and Jam 2:23 and 4:6), it is probable that LXX usage underlies his phrase ajpostasiva from Moses” in Acts 21:21. However, his very phrase would be redundant if the concept of religious apostasy were inherent within the noun, for then he would not have defined the ajpostasiva as “from Moses.” From what other than Moses’ law could the Jew apostasize? While ajpostasiva was used in patristic sources in the technical sense of “apostasy,” the addition by James of the qualifying modifier suggests that in the New Testament, ajpostasiva does not carry that sense by itself.

Further, since the Thessalonians were recent converts from paganism, the relevance of LXX usage in Paul’s epistle to them is questionable. These believers would be more familiar with the noun’s Greek heritage. Liddell & Scott (1881:203) classify ajpostasiva as a “worse [later] form of ajpostavsi",” and give as one definition “distance.” Moulton and Milligan (1930:68) consider ajpostasiva “equivalent to ajpostavsi",” a noun commonly used in the sense of “departure.” Further, while the cognate verb ajfivsthmi sometimes describes a departure from godliness, it is often just the opposite:

In Acts 19:9, Paul departs from the unbelieving Jews.

In 1 Timothy 6:5, Paul instructs Timothy to depart from those who pervert the truth.

In 2 Timothy 2:19, those who name Christ’s name are to depart from iniquity.

Our understanding of ajpostasiva is supported by the syntax. The noun in this case has the definite article: “the departure.” The article cannot be generic; it must be anaphoric.[30] To what specific departure did Paul refer in Thessalonians? Had he discussed previously with them a specific time of apostasy? We see nothing of the sort in 1 Thessalonians. In contrast, the departure of the church is pre-eminent in the first epistle. Paul refers to this event and to our subsequent joy in Christ’s presence in 1:10, 2:19, 3:12 and 5:9,10, discussing it at length in 4:13-18. Within the immediate context of our noun, he writes of our gathering together with Christ (2 Th 2:1). We infer that Paul is referring back to a subject in which he has assiduously instructed his readers: “the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him.”

Our interpretation of ajpostasiva as “departure” better serves Paul’s purpose in writing this chapter. Those who interpret ajpostasiva as “apostasy” assume that Paul refers to this “apostasy” as a sign to warn the Thessalonians of Christ’s return. However, Paul’s purpose is not to warn them of His impending return, but to reassure them in their persecution that they need not worry about enduring the wrath of God. It is not they who will be left behind. The unbelievers who refused the truth will be left behind (2:11-12).

Ironically, the chief text cited on behalf of the post-tribulation position occurs in the immediately preceding context. “It is just with God to repay affliction to those who afflict you, and to you who are afflicted relief with us, at the unveiling of the Lord Jesus” (1:7). All agree that this context describes our Lord’s return after the tribulation. However, we must not assume that the saints’ relief and the afflictors’ recompense are simultaneous. The nouns relief and affliction are not co-objects of the verb ajntapovdounai, “repay,” for in what sense is God’s relief a repayment of our afflictions? Afflicting the afflictors represents the Mosaic law of corresponding retribution, but our relief is not a corresponding reward – we all receive it, regardless of the degree of our faithfulness. The clause, “and [give] relief to you who are afflicted,” is a parenthesis, inserted in a manner almost characteristic of this passage:

The Rapture/Departure will take place before the day of the Lord/Christ.

2 Th 2:1-13 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come is now present [enesthken should be rendered as pointing to strictly present time - cf. Moulton & Milligan and Rom 8:38; 1 Co 3:22; 7:26; Gal 1:4; 2 Ti 3:1; Heb 9:9 complete concordance]. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away the departure [h apostasia The definite article [h] refers to His coming and our departing in 2:1 and 1 Th 4:13-18.] comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshipped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

If you do not believe what he is writing, you can not believe in a "rapture", because it is not mentioned elsewhere. Receiving the glorified body is mentioned, but when is not mentioned.