the beasts of Daniel

daqq

Well-known member
Sorry Daqq, way off.

There is only one direct NT interp of the AofD and it is saying that it is a person who will be in the temple (mistaken as Messiah Mk 13:6, 21), in the 1st century at the end of that generation. When that is seen, or any rumor of it coming, the Christians of that generation were supposed to get the heck out. They left Judea and went to were many of the Christian leaders were, Little Asia, which is why there are 7 churches John writes to.

In Dan 8:13, the AofD as an expression actually began as the 'rebellion that desolates.' The rebellious leader would ruin the country says ch 8, while the exact timeline for that is in 9, overshadowed by the Gospel of what Messiah accomplishes before it. Only 9:27 picks up where ch 8 left off.

Both Josephus and Caiaphas were aware of this figure coming along. Caiaphas thought he could intervene; that he could keep the nation alive by appeasing Rome with the sacrifice of Christ, Jn 12, 18. But the rebellion problem was way too deep and was generated by Judaising. The only cure for Judaizing was faith in the Gospel and work in its mission; ask Paul!

Tragically the AofD leader did ruin the country at the end of that generation.

Sorry Interplanner, it is you who are way off, and the reasons you are way off are because of the Preterist historical fullfilment paradigm and for denying that your body is the temple of Elohim. The Master only uses bdelugma three times in all of the Gospel accounts and two of them are companion passages recording the same statement from the Olivet Discourse in Matthew and Mark. Therefore Yeshua employs the word bdelugma only twice in all of his earthly ministry, that is, at least according to what we have written. The one statement therefore expounds the other for those who put their faith and trust in the Teacher Yeshua. For those who do not believe him and his words: please feel free to continue making up your own private interplanner interpretations and plans but do not expect to begin to have the veil removed from your heart, mind, and eyes when you read such things, until your heart turns back to the Father. :)
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Sorry Interplanner, it is you who are way off, and the reasons you are way off are because of the Preterist historical fullfilment paradigm and for denying that your body is the temple of Elohim. The Master only uses bdelugma three times in all of the Gospel accounts and two of them are companion passages recording the same statement from the Olivet Discourse in Matthew and Mark. Therefore Yeshua employs the word bdelugma only twice in all of his earthly ministry, that is, at least according to what we have written. The one statement therefore expounds the other for those who put their faith and trust in the Teacher Yeshua. For those who do not believe him and his words: please feel free to continue making up your own private interplanner interpretations and plans but do not expect to begin to have the veil removed from your heart, mind, and eyes when you read such things, until your heart turns back to the Father. :)



The feel of Mt 24 etc is that it is speaking about actual realities for them to be aware of, alert to, forewarned of. There is no abstraction when it comes to AofD. You are ignoring 1st century history and commentary by Josephus and Caiaphas. You are ignoring how Dan 8&9 develop the term.

Get off of your sanctimonious horse about whether my heart is turned to the Father, and answer the real literary/historical questions. You are in no position at the far end of the i.net to say that my heart is not in step with the Father. I think it is, because I love Rom 3:21-26.
 

daqq

Well-known member
The feel of Mt 24 etc is that it is speaking about actual realities for them to be aware of, alert to, forewarned of. There is no abstraction when it comes to AofD. You are ignoring 1st century history and commentary by Josephus and Caiaphas. You are ignoring how Dan 8&9 develop the term.

Get off of your sanctimonious horse about whether my heart is turned to the Father, and answer the real literary/historical questions. You are in no position at the far end of the i.net to say that my heart is not in step with the Father. I think it is, because I love Rom 3:21-26.

You call the Testimony of Yeshua a "sanctimonious horse" which proves yet again that you deny that your own body is the temple of Elohim by way of your flesh and physical minded doctrines. Yeshua clearly tells his disciples what things defile a man and it has everything to do with the HEART. You reveal your own heart by your own words and such a thing is acceptable to be judged because we are speaking of doctrine and the tree is known by its fruits.

Matthew 15:18-20 KJV
18. But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
20. These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.


Luke 16:14-15 KJV
14. And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
15. And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination [bdelugma] in the sight of God.


For the same reason the beast of Revelation 13:1-5 speaks with the mouth of a lion; for what comes forth from the mouth proceeds from the heart in the doctrine of Yeshua:

Revelation 13:1-5 KJV
1. And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2. And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
3. And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4. And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5. And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.


And the Spirit of the Prophecy is the Testimony of Yeshua, (Rev 19:10) and the beast of the man from Revelation 13 has the mouth of a lion-like beast because his heart has been given over to the first beast of Daniel 7 which is the lion:

Daniel 4:16 KJV
16. Let his heart be changed from man's, and let a beast's heart be given unto him; and let seven times pass over him.

Daniel 7:4 KJV
4. The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.

Yeshua expounds all things Torah and Prophets.
You simply do not fully believe his words . . . :nono:
 

daqq

Well-known member
You are ignoring 1st century history and commentary by Josephus and Caiaphas. You are ignoring how Dan 8&9 develop the term.

You are both the head-sum of the gold, (Dan 2:38) and the tree, (Dan 4:22) O king! :crackup:
And the tree is known by his fruit, (Matthew 12:33). :)
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
You are both the head-sum of the gold, (Dan 2:38) and the tree, (Dan 4:22) O king! :crackup:
And the tree is known by his fruit, (Matthew 12:33). :)


Let's play 'jump all over Scripture'! What about Dan 8&9 and the fact that the NT makes only one direct interp of them?
 

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
You are ignoring how Dan 8&9 develop the term.

not all translations have the 'holy place'
so
they may not know what we are talking about

Daniel 9:24New International Version (NIV)

24 “Seventy ‘sevens’[a] are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place.[c]
 

False Prophet

New member
Haram al-Sharif includes the Dome of the Rock, the Aqsa Mosque, and a host of other shrines. ISIS is the king of the north. The king of the north will show up in the holy place proclaiming that he is God. ISIS will enter Haram al-Sharif proclaiming that they are God.
 

daqq

Well-known member
Let's play 'jump all over Scripture'! What about Dan 8&9 and the fact that the NT makes only one direct interp of them?

You see it as "jumping all over Scripture" because you lack the foundation in Scripture to understand what you read. It is you who is cherry picking because while you ignore the Testimony of Yeshua, as you have done just now with my previous posts, you likewise use the void that you leave so as to fill up the meaning with your own imagination and so-called historical fulfillments. My foundation is the Testimony of Yeshua which expounds these things.

True. I was referring to the 'rebellion that desolates' in 8:13 and what happened to it.

If you understood the Law according to the Testimony of Yeshua you would likewise understand what was already said as well as what you put forth now. The sons of Israel are commanded to make a little miqdash-sanctuary, patterned after the Mishkan-Tabernacle, and the reason for this is clearly stated; it is so that the Father will dwell among them:

Exodus 25:1-9
1. And YHWH spoke unto Moshe, saying:
2. Speak unto the sons of Yisrael, that they bring Me an offering: of every man that gives it willingly with his heart shall you take My offering.
3. And this is the offering which you shall take of them: gold, and silver, and brass:
4. And blue, and purple, and scarlet, and shesh-fine linen, and goats:
5. And skins of rams tanned adamim, and skins of tchashim, and shittiym-acacia thorn-wood:
6. Oil for the light, spices for anointing oil, and for sweet incense:
7. Onyx stones, and stones to be set in the ephod, and in the breastplate.
8. And let them make Me a miqdash-sanctuary-chapel, that I may dwell among them:
9. According to all that I show you, according the pattern of the Mishkan-Tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall you make it.

Which one is found in Daniel 8:11? Is it a miqdash-sanctuary, (see Ezekiel 11:16) or is it the Mishkan-Tabernacle? And what is ha-tamiyd from the same Daniel passage and its corresponding companion passages that mention tamiyd in Daniel? Tamiyd simply means "continual" and not necessarily the twice-daily "sacrifice" as it is generally rendered in most English translations. The Tamiyd concerns all of the tamiyd-continual holy things of the Mishkan Tabernacle which are the supernal holy things of the Father. Moreover the altar of adamah, (which is the earthen foundation-base of the bronze or brazen altar of sacrifice) is the altar of the heart because the first man-adam is taken from dust of the adamah-soil. The same is the adamah-soil of the heart from the Parable of the Sower. This is not new but rather hidden from the foundation of the world and revealed in Messiah, that is, by the Testimony of Messiah Yeshua. The altar of adamah is your heart because the man is the temple of Elohim:

Genesis 2:7a
7a. And Elohim formed man of the dust of the adamah

The sons of Israel are commanded to make an altar of adamah:

Exodus 20:24a
24a. An altar of adamah shall you make unto Me

The companion passage to Exodus 20:24a, by the contexts, is Deut 5:29a:

Deuteronomy 5:29a
29a. O that there were such an heart in them!

The adamah is the soil of the heart as revealed in the Parable of the Sower. The abomination of desolation takes place in the heart, just as it did with Judas "Sikariy", (whose name means "my price", Zechariah 11:12) who was a son of perdition according to typology and according to the Testimony of Yeshua, (John 17:12). The Father does not dwell in temple building structures made with the hands of men: never has, never will, (Isaiah 66:1-2, Acts 7:49-51) O stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! :chuckle:

:sheep:
 
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genuineoriginal

New member
the fourth beast of daniel
is
the second beast of the apocalypse

No, there is no similarity between the two beasts.

The first beast of the apocalypse has features from all four of the beasts of Daniel, which has been misinterpreted by many who claim the first beast of the apocalypse is the same as the fourth beast of Daniel.

The second beast of the apocalypse comes from the land (of Israel) and not from the sea (of nations).
 

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
No, there is no similarity between the two beasts.

The first beast of the apocalypse has features from all four of the beasts of Daniel, which has been misinterpreted by many who claim the first beast of the apocalypse is the same as the fourth beast of Daniel.

The second beast of the apocalypse comes from the land (of Israel) and not from the sea (of nations).

who do you think the two beasts are?
 

Totton Linnet

New member
Silver Subscriber
The beast from the sea [the nations] is the lawless world ruler antichrist

The beast from the land [Israel] is the false prophet
 

Zeke

Well-known member
When you figure out the CAPITAL letters and who owns that WORLD the beast will be obvious, even a STRAW MAN can figure it out once ya stop using the mark for a few DAYS.

DAGG pretty much nailed the LETTER to the right cross for labelist gamers, which makes the EXOTERIC theatrics a distraction/opioids for the PERSONA/Soul Trap owned by the WORLD of paper kingdoms that have become steel bars for the mind.
 

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
When you figure out the CAPITAL letters and who owns that WORLD the beast will be obvious, even a STRAW MAN can figure it out once ya stop using the mark for a few DAYS.

DAGG pretty much nailed the LETTER to the right cross for labelist gamers, which makes the EXOTERIC theatrics a distraction/opioids for the PERSONA/Soul Trap owned by the WORLD of paper kingdoms that have become steel bars for the mind.

do you think there is anyone here who understands your post?
 
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