Some Jerk Brought TNP to ToL

Town Heretic

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
ok doser said:
....has steadily turned away from God in its evolution of what it now mocking calls "justice"
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The fact is we've always been a nation struggling to put our principles into action. It took a war and another hundred years or so to treat black people to the full measure of right they should have had under our founding principles. Women had to fight for rough equality as well. Those advances and advances in laws relating to consent, contract and any number of rights and process have steadily advanced toward the good.

And then, with all that forward momentum we do something reckless, wrong, and monumentally stupid with Roe v. Wade. And the struggle continues.
 
Town Heretic

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
ok doser said:
rah!

rah!


:mock:town-the-tard, who thinks that societally acceptable adultery, divorce, abortion, pornography, etc are "good"
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Well, no. That would just be you doing what you do best and most of all around here, making things up. :plain: Why, God knows.

I was speaking to the law, not social trends.

So I spoke to slavery and women's suffrage and the struggle to live up to the principle of equality before the law.

I literally noted abortion as being wreckless, wrong, and monumentally stupid.

I Didn't address divorce, or pornography. We've always had the first and the second is problematic on a number of levels (some people find the statue of David morally troublesome and in need of a fig leaf, by way of). Divorce has been made easier, with both good and ill impact.

This is why whenever Sod calls for argument or discussion I don't take the entreaty seriously.

Here's what I actually wrote, again:

The fact is we've always been a nation struggling to put our principles into action. It took a war and another hundred years or so to treat black people to the full measure of right they should have had under our founding principles. Women had to fight for rough equality as well. Those advances and advances in laws relating to consent, contract and any number of rights and process have steadily advanced toward the good.

And then, with all that forward momentum we do something reckless, wrong, and monumentally stupid with Roe v. Wade. And the struggle continues.


Bad Sod. Bad.

Until you learn where you do your business and where you fetch things, like facts and arguments, no one is going to take you to the park to play, metaphorically speaking. :)
 
L

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Clete said:
You (all those debating me on this topic) are the one making this error, not me!

What is the point of stating that love keeps no record of wrongs when talking about criminal justice? Criminal justice doesn't have anything to do (directly) with the church or those in it. The same God that taught that love keeps no record of wrongs is the same God that is Love Himself and who said to execute the homosexual and Who will throw the same into an eternal Hell if they do not repent before they die. Was God unloving when He said that? When God, having kept a record of their wrong doings, throws Satan and all who follow him into the Lake of Fire, will that be unloving?

Do you see how you are mixing principles that apply to the way believers treat each other with an issue that has nothing to do with that?


That is not the only thing the Christian can do. We live under a system of government that asks for our input and so yes, we do have authority in this government. The fact that Donald Trump, of all people, won the Republican nomination for the Presidency is proof that votes count and elections matter.

You matter too! Your individual vote may make no difference in the outcome of the election at all, depending on where you live, but regardless, you have an influence on those around you in countless ways that you aren't even aware of. We Christian ought to vote and we ought to let everyone know who we voted for (or against) and why. This government affords us a voice and we ought to use it for good. The correct Christian focus on social issues ought to be three-fold...

1. Advocate for the criminalization of that which God calls criminal.
2. Create a robust social stigma to criminal behavior to whatever extent is possible without needlessly creating one against Christianity.
3. Pray and watch for repentance and be ready to give an answer for the hope which is in us.

All three of those are critically important but they are in the correct order because each successive point affects fewer and fewer people.


That was not only a very judgmental thing for Paul to do and to teach but it was part of the social stigma aspect of the correct Christian attitude toward these issues.

No one - NO ONE - has suggested that we ought to just go out and start killing homos. That would not be just, it would not be right, it would be murder.


So again, are you suggesting that nothing be illegal?

"It's not for man to judge! Judging is God's purview and thus how can I, a mere man, tell you that is was wrong to burglarize that house and murder the family that lived there?!"

How is that not what your logic suggests?

If that isn't what you're suggesting then what are you suggesting?

Who get to decide what is and isn't legal in this country?

Why shouldn't Christians get to have a voice in that discussion?

If Christian should have a voice why wouldn't we voice God's opinion about what ought to criminal and what ought to be done with those covicted of crimes?


Resting in Him,
Clete
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You should not reply if you can not grasp what is being said in reply.

LA
 
freelight

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
What the passage is really referring to

What the passage is really referring to

patrick jane said:
Leviticus 20:13 KJV -
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Do you understand the social/cultural context of that passage?

Do you accept and keep all the holiness codes (laws) in Leviticus (or do you cherry-pick?), and are 'Christians' obligated to?

Did you know that this verse in context speaks of sexual acts devoted to pagan idols and gods so that its contextually speaking of sexual acts associated with idolatry? (This included male temple prostitutes being used in pagan worship by other men). Yhwh prohibited such because it was idolatry, this is Not a prohibition against homosexuality in general, neither does this speak to healthy monogamous homosexual relationships. Remember the context is prohibiting sexual relations in the worship of other gods. A proper exegesis requires understanding the meaning of the writer at the time-period in its social-cultural context.

Can you find anywhere in the OT where a person was "put to death" for breaking this particular law? Chapter and verse please ;)

I suggest more research on The bible and homosexuality

&

Shrine Prostitutes - Is THAT what Moses was talking about in Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13?

:idea:
 
ok doser

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
Town Heretic said:
I was speaking to the law, not social trends.
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so was i, moron

the way the law has changed in the last fifty years, to allow for legalized adultery, no-fault divorces, pornography of a nature and availability undreamed of by our fathers


and the murder of children


this is what you call "steadily advanc(ing) toward the good"


I've never been able to make up my mind whether you're a retard or just truly evil

but i do look forward to watching you stand before the judgement throne

and i look forward to watching you cast into the lake of fire :wave2:
 
Town Heretic

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
ok doser said:
the way the law has changed in the last fifty years, to allow for legalized adultery, no-fault divorces,pornography of a nature and availability undreamed of by our fathers and the murder of childrenthis is what you call "steadily advanc(ing) toward the good"
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Why no, thanks for asking.

Here's what I actually wrote, again:

The fact is we've always been a nation struggling to put our principles into action. It took a war and another hundred years or so to treat black people to the full measure of right they should have had under our founding principles. Women had to fight for rough equality as well. Those advances and advances in laws relating to consent, contract and any number of rights and process have steadily advanced toward the good.

And then, with all that forward momentum we do something reckless, wrong, and monumentally stupid with Roe v. Wade. And the struggle continues.

I've never been able to make up my mind whether you're a retard or just truly evil
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You passing judgment on character or acumen is like watching a test being graded by an illiterate.
 
Clete

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
Lazy afternoon said:
You should not reply if you can not grasp what is being said in reply.

LA
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Tranlsation..

"I don't know what else to say, I need a way out of this conversation."

If you don't want to discuss it, leave. I won't lose any sleep over it.

You should at least try to keep in mind that you're on a text based web forum where all the posts are still right there for everyone to read. It makes it basically impossible to get away with idiotic tactics like you attempted here.

My post, the post you quoted the whole text of, is on the same web page as your mindless insult.
 
Clete

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
Lazy afternoon said:
Explain that to Clete.

I do not think he realized I was replying to your graceless suggestion.

LA
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If you'd read the posts you mindlessly make fun of you'd have read this....


"No one - NO ONE - has suggested that we ought to just go out and start killing homos. That would not be just, it would not be right, it would be murder."


The bible does not authorize any individual to take the law into their own hands. A point I have made over and over and over again.
 
L

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Tambora said:
He sure does.
And He told His people to kill them.
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Clete said:
If you'd read the posts you mindlessly make fun of you'd have read this....


"No one - NO ONE - has suggested that we ought to just go out and start killing homos. That would not be just, it would not be right, it would be murder."


The bible does not authorize any individual to take the law into their own hands. A point I have made over and over and over again.
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Tambora disagrees with you.

LA
 
freelight

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
the charge to "put to death"..................

the charge to "put to death"..................

Clete said:
"No one - NO ONE - has suggested that we ought to just go out and start killing homos. That would not be just, it would not be right, it would be murder."
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Well, aren't you so kind and emphathetic....but you advocate or quote an old Jewish tribal law that says to DO just that, - it doesn't matter who is doing the 'killing' or the 'putting to death',...the law specifically indicates that 'death' shall be the penalty. Did you see my last post to pj here,....can you show us anywhere where anyone was ever "put to death" for violating this particular law? But some want to enforce it today, which is absurd. Even today, Jews interpret these laws for the most part 'figuratively',....since most are outdated and were only pertinent to or related to the cultural belief-context of their times. We live in a modern age with enhanced knowledge and intelligence,....so some of those old laws no longer apply, they've become obsolete even.

The bible does not authorize any individual to take the law into their own hands. A point I have made over and over and over again.
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Well,...then who in these modern times could qualify to DO the killingof those breaking these olden laws? God himself? , his priests, a posse? If this religious community is so bent on "putting people to death", then perhaps this is telling in itself, since the 'God' supposedly putting forth the these laws hasn't nailed down who is to do the killing, or perhaps I missed some passages where these assignments were given? I mean who is even obeying some of these old levitical rules and regulations today?...even among the Jews. Hence why some interpret these things in some metaphorical or figurative way. It just so happens that religions of the book are stuck with their 'religious texts' so are forced in coming generations to re-interpret or 're-contextualize' some of the passages in their book, to make it appropriate or concordant to modern day knowledge, society and times.

As shared in my last post, with related research articles,....the context in Leviticus is discussing sex acts related to pagan god worship, since there were temple shrine prostitutes who engaged in same-sex acts with worshippers to influence the gods to grant fertility, etc. YHWH wasn't having that, hence his laws trying to make his people Israel 'seperate' and 'set apart'(holy) from all the pagan nations. Hence any sexual acts outside the proper male-female unions prescribed by YHWH were prohibited. Note that 'homosexuality' as an 'orientation' itself is not condemned, only the context in which some same-sex acts were performed in the worship of other gods (idolatry). lets keep things in context.

Shrine Prostitutes - Is THAT what Moses was talking about in Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13?

That you or anyone else condone or encourage the 'execution' of any person just because their 'orientiation' is 'homosexual' (or bi-sexual, trans-gender, etc.) is appalling.
 
Clete

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
freelight said:
Well, aren't you so kind and emphathetic....but you advocate or quote an old Jewish tribal law that says to DO just that, - it doesn't matter who is doing the 'killing' or the 'putting to death',...the law specifically indicates that 'death' shall be the penalty.
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Freelight, you're on my ignore list and have been for some time. I pulled up this post and read the above quoted first sentence of your post and knew that my decision to place you on ignore was the correct decision.

Put simply, you're a liar! You either knew when you wrote your last post that it was false or you just made it up and hoped you hadn't gotten anything glaringly wrong. Either way, it amounts to an intentional lie. You didn't even make it past one sentence without stating something that I believe you knew was false when you wrote it.

The bible does NOT teach that "it doesn't matter who is doing the killing". It doesn't teach that at all. There is a complete criminal justice system in place within the pages of the Old Testament. Complete with a system of judges and a standard of proof and proper sentencing. Everything a government needs to practice justice. It does not teach that anyone who happens to catch a murderer is allowed to summarily kill them in the street. It worked then in a similar fashion to the way it works now. You get accused of a crime and you're arrested and brought to trial and if convicted, then you're punished. Anything short of this would be unjust and would have been considered unjust in Israel during biblical times.

Now, back to the ignore list with you!
 
freelight

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Quote Originally Posted by freelight

Well, aren't you so kind and emphathetic....but you advocate or quote an old Jewish tribal law that says to DO just that, - it doesn't matter who is doing the 'killing' or the 'putting to death',...the law specifically indicates that 'death' shall be the penalty.
Click to expand...



Clete said:
Freelight, you're on my ignore list and have been for some time. I pulled up this post and read the above quoted first sentence of your post and knew that my decision to place you on ignore was the correct decision.

Put simply, you're a liar! You either knew when you wrote your last post that it was false or you just made it up and hoped you hadn't gotten anything glaringly wrong. Either way, it amounts to an intentional lie. You didn't even make it past one sentence without stating something that I believe you knew was false when you wrote it.

The bible does NOT teach that "it doesn't matter who is doing the killing". It doesn't teach that at all. There is a complete criminal justice system in place within the pages of the Old Testament. Complete with a system of judges and a standard of proof and proper sentencing. Everything a government needs to practice justice. It does not teach that anyone who happens to catch a murderer is allowed to summarily kill them in the street. It worked then in a similar fashion to the way it works now. You get accused of a crime and you're arrested and brought to trial and if convicted, then you're punished. Anything short of this would be unjust and would have been considered unjust in Israel during biblical times.

Now, back to the ignore list with you!
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You're misinterpreting what I wrote,....I was saying that the law was wrong and unjustly cruel to impose "death" as a penalty for this and other levitical laws (especially if its twisting in modern day times to mean 'homosexuality' as a mere orientation is punishable by death), no matter who is enforcing or doing the execution. I wasn't insinuating that you were saying ANYONE can do the killing. Furthermore you need to read my whole post "in context" before jumping the gun and calling freelight a 'liar'. To assume any intentional lying on my part is absurd and misguided.
 
freelight

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Lazy afternoon said:
Tambora said homosexuals should be killed by Gods people.

So you agree with that.

LA
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Apparently so,.....but it would take a governmental decree or order to do such, and at this point in time in our country of the USA, we don't enforce old Jewish tribal laws. Welcome to the modern Age. Neither does modern day Isreal. Go figure. But some 'christians' want to take another religion's 'holiness code' and make it 'applicable' today.
 
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