Sodomy vs. Shellfish

DXPose

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“If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death.” -- Leviticus 20:13

“You shall not eat their flesh, but you shall regard their carcasses as an abomination. Whatever in the water does not have fins or scales—that shall be an abomination to you.” -- Leviticus 11:11-12

------------------------

Oftentimes when Christians condemn homosexuality based on Biblical interpretation of the Law, there undoubtedly is a queer theologian or liberal reprobate with a seemingly clever comeback to pathetically justify perversion by claiming anyone who eats shellfish is also damned to hell because the Bible specifically states that these foods are an "abomination."

I have repeatedly been accused of being a religious wacko who is always cherry picking the Bible for the quotes I like, but conveniently ignores the other ones. Of course, this is not true because I don't ignore any verse, I merely quote ones that are applicable to the issue at hand. Sure, God says that both homosexual acts and eating shellfish are an “abomination,” but you don’t need to be an expert on the Scriptures to know that the two do not compare as detestable sins, and anyone who makes a rudimentary attempt to do so only exposes their own foolishness and ignorance of God’s Law. Aside from basic biblical knowledge, any logical and rationally thinking person knows that it’s not immoral to eat shrimp cocktail or wear clothing with mixed fabric, whereas people of the same sex demonstrating unnatural, vile affections for one another clearly is immoral and perverse.

In order understand the context when reading Bible verses which condemns certain behaviors, we must simply distinguish the dietary or ceremonial laws given by God specifically to the nation of Israel, from the moral laws which are absolutely unchanging and still applicable today. The important distinction between these laws is reflected in the Old Testament penalties for breaking them: Disobedience to the ceremonial laws resulted in uncleanness (Lev. 11), while breaching the moral law was punishable by death (Lev. 20).

When God finished giving the laws regarding sexual immorality such as adultery, incest, bestiality and sodomy, He closed with a warning in Leviticus 18:24-26:

“Do not defile yourselves with any of these things; for by all these the nations are defiled, which I am casting out before you. For the land is defiled; therefore I visit the punishment of its iniquity upon it, and the land vomits out its inhabitants. You shall therefore keep My statutes and My judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations, either any of your own nation or any stranger who dwells among you.”

These prohibitions given by God provide protection for the population from sexually transmitted diseases and the subsequent damage that could come from an outbreak of disease within the community. A society has a moral structure upon which it rests, and when sexual immorality spreads rampant while acts of perversion become commonplace, the moral health and structure of the society begins to collapse.

In their desperation to twist the text, pro-homo scholars argue that Christians are no longer under the Mosaic Law, therefore homosexuality must be okay since eating shellfish is no longer considered to be a sin. It’s true that the ceremonial and dietary laws have no implication on believers now since these laws were abolished in the New Testament (Mark 7:19; Acts 10:12-13, Heb. 10:8-10), but much to their demise and those who foolishly follow, what these so-called scholars conveniently overlook is the obvious fact that the moral laws are repeatedly reinforced all throughout the New Testament (Mark 7:20-23, Rom. 13:13, 2 Cor. 12:21, Gal. 5:19-21, Eph. 5:3-7, Col. 3:5-6, 1 Thes. 4:3-5, 1 Tim. 1:8-11, Heb. 13:4, Jude 1:6-7, Rev. 22:14-15).

Romans 1:25-27 clearly reveals God's judgment on homos: “Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves...For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.”

Homosexuals reap a bitter harvest of emotional ruin and physical suffering permeating with disease leading to an untimely death. Though HIV/AIDS is not necessarily a direct punishment from God, it certainly is a devastating consequence of the sinful perversion when men choose to defile themselves.

I Corinthians 6:9-10 warns us again: “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor HOMOSEXUALS, nor SODOMITES, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.”

Eating shellfish is a rather harmless act with no moral implications, whereas history is replete with accounts of homosexuality as a deviant, destructive and anti-societal behavior resulting in the end of a culture and eternal damnation for those who practice it.

Revelation 21:8 gives a final warning: “But the cowardly, unbelieving, ABOMINABLE, murderers, SEXUALLY IMMORAL, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
 
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Granite

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Why do you spend so much time and energy discussing a topic that you say disgusts you?
 

SaulToPaul

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The great news of the dispensation of the grace of God which we ALL enjoy, both believers and unbelievers.

2 Cor 5
19: To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20: Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

The only way to fall under the wrath of God today is unbelief of the gospel.

2 Thess 2
10: And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11: And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
 

Dark Radiance

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Actually read the context of Leviticus 20:13. The passage is between the verse condemning worship to Moloch and the passage condemning bestiality.
Do you have any idea what Moloch was depicted as? Upper torso was a bull, lower torso a man. Know what else was characteristic of Moloch worship besides child immolation? Temple prostitution, primarily of the male variety. Think the three are connected? I do.
If I were you I would stick to the New Testament.
 

chatmaggot

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Actually read the context of Leviticus 20:13. The passage is between the verse condemning worship to Moloch and the passage condemning bestiality.
Do you have any idea what Moloch was depicted as? Upper torso was a bull, lower torso a man. Know what else was characteristic of Moloch worship besides child immolation? Temple prostitution, primarily of the male variety. Think the three are connected? I do.
If I were you I would stick to the New Testament.

Did you read the entire post? She included New Testament passages that warn those who practice Homosexuality that they will not inherit the Kingdom of God. Is Paul's passage to be ignored and explained away as well?
 

lightbringer

TOL Subscriber

“If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death.” -- Leviticus 20:13

“You shall not eat their flesh, but you shall regard their carcasses as an abomination. Whatever in the water does not have fins or scales—that shall be an abomination to you.” -- Leviticus 11:11-12

OK, I can understand that, if you commit an abomination you will go to hell! Easy!

What I don't understand is all the writing you did in hopes of justifying your enjoyment of a shrimp cocktail!:rotfl:

Is there any justification for committing an abomination?
 

Ktoyou

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Dietary law was in codex of believers, where as codex for believers and unbelievers was the moral code. I hope I have this right? The Israelites would stand a foreigner eating a lobster, but not sodomy. This was the reason god destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, yet God did not make a point to destroy the lobster eaters.

Now don't tell me there were no lobsters around then because I had to add some humor and lobsters are funny to me, but umm good. :chew:
 

Ktoyou

New member
Hall of Fame
The great news of the dispensation of the grace of God which we ALL enjoy, both believers and unbelievers.

2 Cor 5
19: To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20: Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

The only way to fall under the wrath of God today is unbelief of the gospel.

2 Thess 2
10: And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11: And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

This is what matters to me, believing in what Jesus Christ had done for me, that I am saved and live in His light. :thumb:
 

OMEGA

New member
KTOYOU, said,
This is what matters to me, believing in what Jesus Christ had done for me,

that I am saved and live in His light.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


KTOYOU, ARE YOU SURE OF THAT ?
 

amosman

New member
Dietary law was in codex of believers, where as codex for believers and unbelievers was the moral code. I hope I have this right? The Israelites would stand a foreigner eating a lobster, but not sodomy. This was the reason god destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, yet God did not make a point to destroy the lobster eaters.

Now don't tell me there were no lobsters around then because I had to add some humor and lobsters are funny to me, but umm good. :chew:

Oh Yea. What is the context of this scripture? When does this happen?

Isa 66:15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
Isa 66:16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
Isa 66:17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.
 

Lighthouse

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What gets me is those who argue we are no longer under the law so homos are okay never say it's okay to commit murder or adultery.:think:
 

Ktoyou

New member
Hall of Fame
KTOYOU, said,
This is what matters to me, believing in what Jesus Christ had done for me,

that I am saved and live in His light.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


KTOYOU, ARE YOU SURE OF THAT ?

:wazzup:
Absolutely, positively, beyond a shadow of a doubt, sure of it.
 

Ktoyou

New member
Hall of Fame
Oh Yea. What is the context of this scripture? When does this happen?

Isa 66:15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
Isa 66:16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
Isa 66:17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

Not for us, for Israel.
I am not too crazy about mice anyway, but there is no wrong in eating one, if that is your bag.:shut:
 

amosman

New member
Not for us, for Israel.
I am not too crazy about mice anyway, but there is no wrong in eating one, if that is your bag.:shut:

Read the darn chapter. God is talking to the Gentiles and tthe nations and all flesh. Why do people have it in their heads that all the bad stuff happens to Israel and all the good stuff happens to the Gentiles Christians.
 

genuineoriginal

New member

“If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death.” -- Leviticus 20:13

“You shall not eat their flesh, but you shall regard their carcasses as an abomination. Whatever in the water does not have fins or scales—that shall be an abomination to you.” -- Leviticus 11:11-12

------------------------

Oftentimes when Christians condemn homosexuality based on Biblical interpretation of the Law, there undoubtedly is a queer theologian or liberal reprobate with a seemingly clever comeback to pathetically justify perversion by claiming anyone who eats shellfish is also damned to hell because the Bible specifically states that these foods are an "abomination."

I have repeatedly been accused of being a religious wacko who is always cherry picking the Bible for the quotes I like, but conveniently ignores the other ones. Of course, this is not true because I don't ignore any verse, I merely quote ones that are applicable to the issue at hand. Sure, God says that both homosexual acts and eating shellfish are an “abomination,” but you don’t need to be an expert on the Scriptures to know that the two do not compare as detestable sins, and anyone who makes a rudimentary attempt to do so only exposes their own foolishness and ignorance of God’s Law. Aside from basic biblical knowledge, any logical and rationally thinking person knows that it’s not immoral to eat shrimp cocktail or wear clothing with mixed fabric, whereas people of the same sex demonstrating unnatural, vile affections for one another clearly is immoral and perverse.

In order understand the context when reading Bible verses which condemns certain behaviors, we must simply distinguish the dietary or ceremonial laws given by God specifically to the nation of Israel, from the moral laws which are absolutely unchanging and still applicable today. The important distinction between these laws is reflected in the Old Testament penalties for breaking them: Disobedience to the ceremonial laws resulted in uncleanness (Lev. 11), while breaching the moral law was punishable by death (Lev. 20).

When God finished giving the laws regarding sexual immorality such as adultery, incest, bestiality and sodomy, He closed with a warning in Leviticus 18:24-26:

“Do not defile yourselves with any of these things; for by all these the nations are defiled, which I am casting out before you. For the land is defiled; therefore I visit the punishment of its iniquity upon it, and the land vomits out its inhabitants. You shall therefore keep My statutes and My judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations, either any of your own nation or any stranger who dwells among you.”

These prohibitions given by God provide protection for the population from sexually transmitted diseases and the subsequent damage that could come from an outbreak of disease within the community. A society has a moral structure upon which it rests, and when sexual immorality spreads rampant while acts of perversion become commonplace, the moral health and structure of the society begins to collapse.

In their desperation to twist the text, pro-homo scholars argue that Christians are no longer under the Mosaic Law, therefore homosexuality must be okay since eating shellfish is no longer considered to be a sin. It’s true that the ceremonial and dietary laws have no implication on believers now since these laws were abolished in the New Testament (Mark 7:19; Acts 10:12-13, Heb. 10:8-10), but much to their demise and those who foolishly follow, what these so-called scholars conveniently overlook is the obvious fact that the moral laws are repeatedly reinforced all throughout the New Testament (Mark 7:20-23, Rom. 13:13, 2 Cor. 12:21, Gal. 5:19-21, Eph. 5:3-7, Col. 3:5-6, 1 Thes. 4:3-5, 1 Tim. 1:8-11, Heb. 13:4, Jude 1:6-7, Rev. 22:14-15).

Romans 1:25-27 clearly reveals God's judgment on homos: “Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves...For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.”

Homosexuals reap a bitter harvest of emotional ruin and physical suffering permeating with disease leading to an untimely death. Though HIV/AIDS is not necessarily a direct punishment from God, it certainly is a devastating consequence of the sinful perversion when men choose to defile themselves.

I Corinthians 6:9-10 warns us again: “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor HOMOSEXUALS, nor SODOMITES, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.”

Eating shellfish is a rather harmless act with no moral implications, whereas history is replete with accounts of homosexuality as a deviant, destructive and anti-societal behavior resulting in the end of a culture and eternal damnation for those who practice it.

Revelation 21:8 gives a final warning: “But the cowardly, unbelieving, ABOMINABLE, murderers, SEXUALLY IMMORAL, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

Hi DXPose,

There is something you missed in the verses:

Leviticus 20
13If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.


Leviticus 11
12Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.

If you read the words, you will see that sodomy is always an abomination, but that eating shellfish is to be considered an abomination.

This means that eating shellfish is not an abomination in and of itself the way that sodomy is an abomination.

It only means that the children of Israel were commanded to be disgusted at the thought of eating shellfish.

The reason for these dietary commandments was given earlier:

Exodus 15
26And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that healeth thee.

The animals that are "clean" are herbivores and insectivores that have no direct disease vectors with humans.
On the other hand, the "unclean" animals, either have a direct disease vector with humans, like the pig, or are highly likely to produce an allergic reaction among Semites, like shellfish.

When the Semites treat the "unclean" animals as abominations, they remain healthier, as promised.
 

amosman

New member
Unfortunately, you are NOT part of "Israel", as in the spiritual Israel of the Bible.

ISRAEL - who SPIRITUAL program has been put ON HOLD

What if you are wrong? I think since your theology is based on the understanding of biased men, I'll stick to the way I understand the scriptures. Especially since Paul said "do as I do just as I do as Christ".
 
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