sin/sins is not the issue today!

Dan Emanuel

Dan Emanuel

Active member
heir said:
If you are already saved; you can get to the point where you don't know what you believe, even to the point of believing not, yet He abideth faithful!

2 Timothy 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
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I believe this too.


DJ
1.0
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j4jesus09

j4jesus09

New member
heir said:
If you are already saved; you can get to the point where you don't know what you believe, even to the point of believing not, yet He abideth faithful!

2 Timothy 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
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True points of scripture. Salvation is truly a walk. Some scriptures are meant to be understood once one has matured. Salvation as a babe in Christ is totally different than salvation to a mature in Christ. These things are maturer topics, however rightly spoken but not easily obtained to. So, even though one has been born again, unbelief can still be a sin or hinderance due to the flesh that is still warring against the new man. Do you disagree?
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
j4jesus09 said:
Yes you are right you can feel like alot of things lol. What I was making mention of though is it takes time to know that ultimately we are dead to sin because we are not all knowing of what certain sins are sometimes. It's a matter of learning and trusting in God and being led by the Holy Spirit. The flesh is is overcome or defeated by TRUTH of the bible through constant prayer and meditation on God's words. To learn specific areas of truth takes time. That's all I was stating or answering when Jerry mentioned why does Paul state to mortify the flesh as if one is to be saved and we believe we can go live for the flesh. Of course not, once you are saved God gives us instruction on how to defeat our flesh or temptations. Before we were saved we had no power over sin. Once saved, the Holy Spirit gives us the power to resist and ultimately figure out that we are OVERCOMERS. Hope that clears it up.
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I just don't think that is what Paul is talking about when he says we are "dead to sin". It takes no power on our part to be crucified with Christ and risen with Him. I think he says the same thing here.

Col. 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.​
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
heir said:
If you are already saved; you can get to the point where you don't know what you believe, even to the point of believing not, yet He abideth faithful!
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True believers will always have the truth within them:

"The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth; For the truth's sake, which dwelleth in us, and shall be with us for ever" (2 Jn.1:1-2).​

If you really think that a true believer can ever stop believing then you obviously do not have true faith.
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
heir said:
We weren't saved by anything that we did, why would you think we can be unsaved by anything that we have done?
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So being saved has nothing to do with anything which we do?

Too bad that you were not around in the first century so that you could have corrected Paul and those with him when they answered the following question the way that they did:

"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:30-31).​
 
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Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
glorydaz said:
I just don't think that is what Paul is talking about when he says we are "dead to sin". It takes no power on our part to be crucified with Christ and risen with Him.
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So do you believe that when a person is saved then he automatically becomes dead to sin?

If your answer is "yes" then please tell me the source of the defilement which can come upon Christians in the following verse:

"Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God" (2 Cor.7:1).​

If your answer is "yes" then tell us why Paul would tell Christians to put to death the things which belong to out earthly nature:

"Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry" (Col.3:5).​

If this happens upon salvation automatically it would make no sense for Paul to tell that to the saved.
 
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Zeke

Zeke

Well-known member
heir said:
If you are already saved; you can get to the point where you don't know what you believe, even to the point of believing not, yet He abideth faithful!

2 Timothy 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
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Yet the clue in 2 Tim 2:13 speaks to the Divine part of man, the younger being the symbol of the new birth from above that is hid behind the veil in the temple made without hands, which is the mind/Jerusalem that hides the son of the promise while the first born of the flesh/field is prepared to receive/conceive the younger second born allegorically referred to from above/heaven.

While on the milk of scripture we knew Christ/Messiah as being flesh, yet now we know that is in reference to our tabernacle in the wilderness flesh/tomb/cocoon that Christ Conscience is birthed from, which to the religious mind trained in a historical Jesus as being foolish even though one professes a belief in a historical Jesus that walked among flesh instead of walking in the flesh of every first born of a woman in the same bondage Galatians 4:24-26.
 
Right Divider

Right Divider

Body part
Jerry Shugart said:
So being saved has nothing to do with anything which we do?

Too bad that you were not around in the first century so that you could have corrected Paul and those with him when they answered the following question the way that they did:
"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:30-31).​
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Very disingenuous of you Jerry. You know darn well that's not what she means.
 
G

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Jerry Shugart said:
Do you agree with those who say that when a person is saved he automatically becomes dead to sin?
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The True Believer stands before God with the Righteousness
of Christ.

Does the True Believer still continue to disobey God, at times
while in the flesh? My answer would be, the flesh is weak and
does things that God disapproves of. That's why the Word says:
Hebrews 12:6 states, "For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth,
and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth." Another word for
Chastise would be "Discipline."

Although the book of Hebrews is written to the Hebrews, this
verse speaks to ALL of God's Children. (Both Hebrew and the
Body of Christ.)

God would have no reason to "discipline" His own, if the flesh
of the True Believer was incapable of doing wrong.
 
Shasta

Shasta

Well-known member
Right Divider said:
So do you think that David was not saved?
Act 13:22 KJV And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.
​
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David was not being "a man after God's heart" when he committed adultery with Bethsheba and murdered her husband. He showed no remorse for those acts until he was confronted by Nathan. Then he repented and his prayer is recorded in Psalm 51.

Saul was also chosen by God. At one point he even prophesied. Like David he started off well but when Samuel confronted him over his disobedience Saul begged the prophet to "honor him in front of the people" which is hardly repentance considering that his sin was valuing his popularity more than the approval of God. Saul was given other opportunities to be restored but each time he walked away from it. Finally, he went consulted a medium and in the end committed suicide.
God is no respecter of persons. If He rejected King Saul he certainly would have rejected David had he not repented.
 
heir

heir

TOL Subscriber
Jerry Shugart said:
True believers will always have the truth within them:

"The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth; For the truth's sake, which dwelleth in us, and shall be with us for ever" (2 Jn.1:1-2).​

If you really think that a true believer can ever stop believing then you obviously do not have true faith.
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You sir, do not believe Paul. One cannot very well depart from the faith if they were never in the faith to begin with.

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

That still doesn't change the fact that they are saved and sealed.
 
heir

heir

TOL Subscriber
Jerry Shugart said:
If you really think that a true believer can ever stop believing then you obviously do not have true faith.
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At the end of my life, I hope to be able to say I have fought the good fight, finished my course and kept the faith like my apostle!

2 Timothy 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:

2 Timothy 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

But no matter what, I rely on Christ's faith

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

...

2 Timothy 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
 
heir

heir

TOL Subscriber
Jerry Shugart said:
Too bad that you were not around in the first century so that you could have corrected Paul and those with him when they answered the following question the way that they did:

"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:30-31).​
Click to expand...
Paul didn't tell him to DO anything, but to BELIEVE!
 
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