Should homosexuals be given the death penalty?

Should homosexuals be given the death penalty?


  • Total voters
    344

Nydhogg

New member
Why is it so destructive?

I don't see gays oppressing anyone, except making the odd loud mouthed and sanctimonious fundie here and there lose their job and go bankrupt, which is completely fine and an effort I support completely.

It's the moral busybodies who should be executed, not the gays and the druggies and the adulterers.
 

The Barbarian

BANNED
Banned
So you're using "tyrannical" much more broadly than is normally accepted as accurate.

The Founders considered the tyranny of the majority to be the greatest danger.

Nydhogg writes:
There's one system in the world that executes homosexuals and adulterers. It's shariah law. On Iran and Afghanistan they're quite big on it.

I do not think my comparison of your proposed laws and the Taliban's or Iran's is far-fetched at all, given that you're pushing for virtually the same thing, the State dictating sexual morals to the people under pain of death.


Guilt by association is a logical fallacy.

It is however, quite reasonable to think that people who have common ideas are alike.

Nydhogg writes:
Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies, The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. — C.S. Lewis

So you meant "Puritan" in the other sense of the word, not merely the one I indicated. And since I'm not basing my advocacy of this law based on what is moral but rather on the fact that homosexuality is so destructive that it requires it,

I know you'd like us to believe it, but if you were honest with yourself, you'd acknowledge that unsupported assumption you're using that to justify your pre-existing moral outlook, not the other way around.
 

Nydhogg

New member
Can you support this?

Yes and no. It was sorta tongue-in cheek.

Still, moral busybodies infringe on the sacred right to liberty of everyone else. They're infringing on other people's rights, and using a racket (the State) to do so.

Although I'm not sure I would criminalize either, much less make it a capital crime, there's honestly more grounds for the prosecution of moral busybodyism than it is for prosecuting sodomy.
 

Merry meat

New member
homosexuality is clearly a choice. they can only reproduce by molesting children and turning them into homosexuals. Of course they should be killed, preferably on television and next thursday opposite that homosexual show "Glee".
 

Merry meat

New member
Why? What does the Bible tell us that teaches homosexuals should get the death penalty? And don't quote the law. That is for those who were in the covenant.

In other words, God was a mean bastard in the new testement, but went to therapy and became nice in the new? Read the WHOLE bible, not just the parts that make you comfortable.
 

MaryContrary

New member
Hall of Fame
homosexuality is clearly a choice. they can only reproduce by molesting children and turning them into homosexuals. Of course they should be killed, preferably on television and next thursday opposite that homosexual show "Glee".
You're really not putting much effort into your trolling are you?

Boooring.
 

trebor

New member
This has probably already been said at some point in this epic thread, but I think Jesus made it clear what we should do with old testament calls for the death penalty. With the woman caught in adultery he said "let the one without sin cast the first stone". Because none of us are without sin, none of us have the authority to condemn anyone to death. Only Christ does. And he said to the woman, "Does anyone condemn you? (No)... Then neither do I".
 

MaryContrary

New member
Hall of Fame
This has probably already been said at some point in this epic thread, but I think Jesus made it clear what we should do with old testament calls for the death penalty. With the woman caught in adultery he said "let the one without sin cast the first stone". Because none of us are without sin, none of us have the authority to condemn anyone to death. Only Christ does. And he said to the woman, "Does anyone condemn you? (No)... Then neither do I".

This has been addressed, actually. What you're missing is that this story isn't and never was intended to address the death penalty at all. Rather, if it addresses anything other than yet another instance of the pharisees trying to catch Jesus in a trap, it addresses justice. Specifically how laws are justly to be enforced.

It ain't by stone-wielding mobs in the street. Which is what those people in that story were. There was no judge and Israel had no authority to enforce that law even if there had been. They were under Roman jurisdiction and the Roman forbade any death penalty enforcement by anyone but themselves.

For Christ to have condoned that woman's stoning her guilty would have had to be established in court, before a judge, by the witnesses. And the man involved would have been facing judgment as well. Then her stoning would have been just and in accordance with Mosaic law. The same law Christ Himself gave to Israel in the first place. Still wouldn't have been legal under Roman law, though.

What this story illustrates is not the just enforcement of Mosaic law but a stone-wielding mob of vigilantes intent on murder.

But if you want to argue all that, then try this first. If the death penalty was done away with here, in this one instance, without it ever actually being addressed...what about Romans 13: 4?

Romans 13:3-5 (New King James Version)
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4 For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. 5 Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience’ sake.

What does the "sword" there refer to? Does a sword do anything other than kill? What does "execute wrath" mean, following immediately after the reference to that sword? This doesn't clearly establish not only the government's God-given duty to enforce the law but to do so with the "sword"?

Even if you hold fast to the tired traditional understanding of John 8:1-11 you still have to explain how Roman 13:3-5 can follow well after that event and yet not uphold the death penalty.
 

The Barbarian

BANNED
Banned
Um, God didn't elect or appoint our leaders. We did. So they don't have OT authority. Nor should they have it.

The only guy who is actually appointed by God to lead us, doesn't execise civil power.

Which is the way it should be.
 

Nydhogg

New member
That would apply to the era of the divine right of kings, but not to the era of popular sovereignty.

Leaders are appointed by the people. Vox populi is NOT vox dei.

Democratic governments are not "rulers" but "representatives". An abstraction, if you will, for the people ruling itself.
 

Lighthouse

The Dark Knight
Gold Subscriber
Hall of Fame
In other words, God was a mean bastard in the new testement, but went to therapy and became nice in the new? Read the WHOLE bible, not just the parts that make you comfortable.
Did I say that?

*looks back at posts*

Nope.

Maybe you should use the brain God gave you and not jump to asinine conclusions. This thread is a poll. You can click on any of the numbers in the poll section and it will take you to a page to see who voted what.

Can you guess what my vote was?
 

trebor

New member
This has been addressed, actually. What you're missing is that this story isn't and never was intended to address the death penalty at all. Rather, if it addresses anything other than yet another instance of the pharisees trying to catch Jesus in a trap, it addresses justice. Specifically how laws are justly to be enforced.

It ain't by stone-wielding mobs in the street. Which is what those people in that story were. There was no judge and Israel had no authority to enforce that law even if there had been. They were under Roman jurisdiction and the Roman forbade any death penalty enforcement by anyone but themselves.

For Christ to have condoned that woman's stoning her guilty would have had to be established in court, before a judge, by the witnesses. And the man involved would have been facing judgment as well. Then her stoning would have been just and in accordance with Mosaic law. The same law Christ Himself gave to Israel in the first place. Still wouldn't have been legal under Roman law, though.

What this story illustrates is not the just enforcement of Mosaic law but a stone-wielding mob of vigilantes intent on murder.

But if you want to argue all that, then try this first. If the death penalty was done away with here, in this one instance, without it ever actually being addressed...what about Romans 13: 4?

Romans 13:3-5 (New King James Version)
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4 For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. 5 Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience’ sake.

What does the "sword" there refer to? Does a sword do anything other than kill? What does "execute wrath" mean, following immediately after the reference to that sword? This doesn't clearly establish not only the government's God-given duty to enforce the law but to do so with the "sword"?

Even if you hold fast to the tired traditional understanding of John 8:1-11 you still have to explain how Roman 13:3-5 can follow well after that event and yet not uphold the death penalty.

Fair point, but do we therefore have to say that like in the case of children being disobedient to their parents we have to have the death penalty as well?
 

MaryContrary

New member
Hall of Fame
Fair point, but do we therefore have to say that like in the case of children being disobedient to their parents we have to have the death penalty as well?
No, we therefor have to say that if that were the law of the land and if it were a right and just law to enforce, that the government would have the duty of doing so.
 

WizardofOz

New member
Fair point, but do we therefore have to say that like in the case of children being disobedient to their parents we have to have the death penalty as well?
No, we therefor have to say that if that were the law of the land and if it were a right and just law to enforce, that the government would have the duty of doing so.
"If" nothing.
Would it be a right and just law? Nice deflection but I'm pretty sure that is what trebor was inquiring. :idunno:
 
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