ECT Shazam, TOL! The Lord Jesus Christ already returned in 70 AD

[tetelestai]

There is a head that receives a deadly wound by the sword and is cast into the pit. After it is cast into the pit the beast that was and was not ascends out of the pit. When did it receive it's deadly wound and when did it ascend out of the pit and become a functioning kingdom again? Be sure you don't confuse the end of the world with that head receiving a deadly wound by the sword.

Nero received a deadly wound (by himself)

Nero's death marked the end of the Julian-Claudian line of emperors. IOW, the bloodline that had received worship was "cut off".

Following the death of Nero, major catastrophes came, followed by civil wars, and attempted in revolutions in Roman provinces.

Josephus said the following about the civil wars that followed Nero's death:

“I have omitted to give an exact account of them, because they are well known by all, and they are described by a great number of Greek and Roman authors.”

The Roman historian Tacitus said the following about the time period after Nero's death"

“The history on which I am entering is that of a period rich in disasters, terrible with battles, torn by civil struggles, horrible even in peace. Four emperors failed by the sword; there were three civil wars, more foreign wars and often both at the same time"

Then came Vespasian

(Rev 13:11-12) Then I saw a second beast, coming out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb, but it spoke like a dragon. 12 It exercised all the authority of the first beast on its behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed.

 

[tetelestai]

In ad70 did the nation of Israel receive a deadly wound by the sword?

It wasn't "the nation of Israel"

It was the Jews of Judaea who recieved the wrath of God because they rejected their Messiah.

All Jews are Israelites, but not all Israelites are Jews.

Was it cast into the pit? Did it ascend out of the pit and become a nation again?

No

70AD marked the end of the Jews, Judaism, the temple, Jerusalem, the old covenant, etc.

We now live in the new covenant, the new heavens and earth, a new priesthood, a new law, etc.

 

[Danoh]

“It is significant that all the earliest Christian writers on the Apocalypse, from Irenaeus down to Victorinus of Pettau and Commodian in the fourth, and Andreas in the fifth, and St. Beatus in the eighth century, connect Nero, or some Roman emperor, with the Apocalyptic Beast’." - David Chilton, Days of Vengeance

It is even more significant that throughout history, some of the greatest have turned out off-base on all sorts of things.

I'm often reminded of this while on-line.

That one of the most brilliant minds in the history of modern business; Tom Watson could "not see a world market for; what is it you call it (Steve Jobs) 'a personal computer..'"

Einstein at one time concluded "I sincerely doubt will ever crack the atom."

But you go right on placing your faith in "the wisdom of men" this side of "that which is perfect."

You go right on in your reliance on their...Scholastic Mysticism.

The best to you in that, Tet.

May you at some point in time come to the realization that all that "is foolishness with God."

 

[whitestone]

Tet your trying to prove that Rome/Caesar,any Caesar is the "beast" to whom they received the mark,,,,,,they did not worship his image "they revolted",,,

 

[tetelestai]

But you go right on placing your faith in "the wisdom of men" this side of "that which is perfect."

Nope.

I quote early church fathers and historians because they confirm the scriptures.

They confirm the prophesies of Christ Jesus in Matt 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, and Revelation.

They confirm what Paul said in his epistles.

You don't like hearing what these early church fathers and historians said because you're a Darby Follower, and every thing they said refutes Darby's false teachings.

Like most Darby Followers, you deny history, and put your head in the sand.

 

[tetelestai]

Tet your trying to prove that Rome/Caesar,any Caesar is the "beast" to whom they received the mark,,,,,,they did not worship his image "they revolted",,,

Why don't we try going through this one step at a time?

Step #1 - The temple and Jerusalem were destroyed in 70AD, not one stone was left standing upon another.

True or False?

 

[whitestone]

In Luke 19:38 KJV they called Jesus something that really got under the pharisees skin, they called him king. Then the Pharisees said rebuke them! Luke 19:39 KJV do you think they will see him again before or after they call him King?

 

[tetelestai]

But you go right on placing your faith in "the wisdom of men" this side of "that which is perfect."

You go right on in your reliance on their...Scholastic Mysticism.

I hate to tell you this Danoh, but all your "faith" is in John Nelson Darby.

It is you who is the follower of a man, not me.

 

[Danoh]

Nope.

I quote early church fathers and historians because the confirm the scriptures.

They confirm the prophesies of Christ Jesus in Matt 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21.

The confirm what Paul said in his epistles.

You don't like hearing what these early church fathers and historians said because you're a Darby Follower, and every thing they said refutes Darby's false teachings.

Like most Darby Followers, you deny history, and put your head in the sand.

Its not a matter of what I like or don't like. Rather, about comparing Scripture with Scripture.

It is not about comparing it with secular viewpoint for one's understanding - which is exactly what most of those so called "Church" fathers were doing.

Mysticism, plain and simple, as their "guide."

You still don't know what principle I am reffering to by Scholastic Mysticism.

This, though Scripture repeatedly warns against that very principle.

 

[Danoh]

I hate to tell you this Danoh, but all your "faith" is in John Nelson Darby.

It is you who is the follower of a man, not me.

Hah - you know you don't hate to tell me that.

But, if that butters your bread, well; have at it.

 

[tetelestai]

In Luke 19:38 KJV they called Jesus something that really got under the pharisees skin, they called him king. Then the Pharisees said rebuke them! Luke 19:39 KJV do you think they will see him again before or after they call him King?

(Ezk 37:22) And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.

 

[tetelestai]

Its not a matter of what I like or don't like. Rather, about comparing Scripture with Scripture.

It is not about comparing it with secular viewpoint for one's understanding - which is exactly what most of those so called "Church" fathers were doing.

Mysticism, plain and simple, as their "guide."

You still don't know what principle I am reffering to by Scholastic Mysticism.

This, though Scripture repeatedly warns against that very principle.

Danoh,

I can back all the history I provided with scripture.

You are left with the false teachings of Darby that cannot stand the test of scripture.

 

[whitestone]

As for me you decided to bring Josephus into the picture to prove ad70ism,,,fine with me prove to us using the Jewish revolt that they worshiped Caesars image and used his mark to buy and sell,,,

 

[tetelestai]

As for me you decided to bring Josephus into the picture to prove ad70ism,,,fine with me prove to us using the Jewish revolt that they worshiped Caesars image and used his mark to buy and sell,,,

 

[whitestone]

Tet they(the Jews) minted their own coins https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Jewish_Revolt_coinage ,,,,your just denying it

 

[Interplanner]

But showing a Roman coin is no more proof than Obama saying Jefferson had a copy of the Qur'an as to whether that shows Jefferson's "tolerance" of Islam. (It does not)

These questions have much more to do with the apocalyptic and warrior mentality found in the DSS and Qumran than such a picture. Yes, they definitely believed in a messianic intervention in their war, which they wanted to start sooner (as did Barrabas and Judas the Galilean back in 6 AD).

 

[whitestone]

But showing a Roman coin is no more proof than Obama saying Jefferson had a copy of the Qur'an as to whether that shows Jefferson's "tolerance" of Islam. (It does not)

These questions have much more to do with the apocalyptic and warrior mentality found in the DSS and Qumran than such a picture. Yes, they definitely believed in a messianic intervention in their war, which they wanted to start sooner (as did Barrabas and Judas the Galilean back in 6 AD).

yea they worshiped a "false Messiah",,they refused Jesus and were not worshiping Jesus nor Caesar,and they received the deadly wound and were cast into the pit until 1948 when the ascended up out of it,,

 

[Interplanner]

yea they worshiped a "false Messiah",,they refused Jesus and were not worshiping Jesus nor Caesar,and they received the deadly wound and were cast into the pit until 1948 when the ascended up out of it,,

To clarify: do you mean the revolutionary zealots were given a deadly wound and then came back to life as Zionists in 1948? Forget the pit business; that's a can of worms. But I have from time to time wondered if the 'rebellion that desolates' (Dan 8:13) might repeat. Complete with a rebuilt old covenant temple.

 

[tetelestai]

Tet they(the Jews) minted their own coins https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Jewish_Revolt_coinage ,,,,your just denying it

And what happened after the Jews did that?

Answer: " The Romans responded by plundering the Jewish Temple and executing up to 6,000 Jews in Jerusalem, prompting a full-scale rebellion."

 

[Danoh]

Danoh,

I can back all the history I provided with scripture.

You are left with the false teachings of Darby.

Not that this applies to you, but it is exactly what you are doing - adding the writings of Josephus, et al, to this:

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

As for your reading a supposed reliance on Darby on my part?

Well, I came to similar conclusions on my own from comparing verse with verse.

Note - not verse with Darby, or whomever, but - verse with verse.

You cannot prove otherwise as to my assertion via the holes filled conclusion you attempt to anymore than attempting to prove that because the RCC holds to the Trinity, it must be why Protestants hold to same.

You learned from an OVERRELIANCE on books.

It's why you can't figure these things out so you just lump everyone together as having "learned" via your full of holes method - from Darby or from someone supposedly influenced by him or one of his.

As with the very basis of your - projection of bias as confirmation - you cannot but carry it to its's extreme "well, they must've learned from books just like" you "have."

Do you not see how narrow minded that is on your part?