can you identify the riders of the four horses?
Seal Judgements and the Wrath of God
- Thread starter benny balerio
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can you identify the riders of the four horses?
genuineoriginal
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There is no need to identify them since they are not historical people.
Jeremiah 15:3 And I will appoint over them four kinds, saith the LORD: the sword to slay, and the dogs to tear, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the earth, to devour and destroy. |
Ezekiel 5:17 So will I send upon you famine and evil beasts, and they shall bereave thee: and pestilence and blood shall pass through thee; and I will bring the sword upon thee. I the LORD have spoken it. |
benny balerio
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The old testiment contains history
The white horse is symbolic representing like a guy called the antichrist.......only he comes onto the world scene with flatteries.
Daniel 11:23
And after the league is made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small number of people.
Daniel 8:25
And through his cunning also he shall cause deceit to prosper under his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and without warning shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken, by no human hand.
Notice that although the man in Re 6:2 is said "to conquer", he has a bow but no arrows which could indicate that during the first 3.5 year period, the Antichrist will conquer more by shrewd statesmanship or deceptive diplomacy than by brute force. Daniel in fact describes him as a man possessing "a mouth speaking great things" (Da 7:8-note), yet with an intimidating force at his back. He will be able to negotiate concessions for Israel - security, permission to rebuild their beloved temple, and the right to worship with Temple sacrifices.
THE PEOPLE OF THE PRINCE WHO IS TO COME WILL DESTROY THE CITY AND THE SANCTUARY:
How do we know? If one looks at the action of these people in destroying the city (Jerusalem) and the sanctuary (the Holy Jewish Temple in Jerusalem), the most obvious conclusion from history is that this event was fulfilled in the sacking and destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in 70AD, which would identify the people as the Roman Empire led by the Roman General Titus. The prince who is to come would then be associated somehow with the Roman Empire or what has been designated by most evangelical commentaries as the "Revived Roman Empire". Observe carefully that this verse does not state that the prince comes at this time nor that the city is destroyed by him but by his people.
ANTICHRIST: Applying the accepted rule of interpretation and observing the text for the nearest antecedent of the pronoun he (without bias or influence by other "experts"), this he most closely parallels the prince who is to come in the previous passage (Daniel 9:26). This is the conclusion reached by most conservative evangelical commentaries, who go on to identify him as the Little Horn (Antichrist) who "came up among the (10) horns" of the fourth beast (fourth kingdom ~ "Revived Rome") chapter 7 of Daniel (Da 7:8,11-note Da 7:20, 21-note).
:listen: He makes it up as he goes along. :dizzy: 2 Thess 2:11
See:
Opening of the First Seal--Rider on a White Horse J. Vernon McGee
Back to the Future: A Jet Tour Through Revelation by John MacArthur
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benny balerio
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Please explain what "four seals" are you scriptually referring too?
I don't think John in Revelation is prophesying what happens is the old testament
benny balerio
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LOL...No,..it is the O.T. scriptures that clarifies and gives further insight into what will occur in the book of revelation.
don't you think the colors are there to help us identify whatever they are?
genuineoriginal
New member
The "Revived Roman Empire" and "The Antichrist" are both lies that keeps people from learning the truth.
It was not the Romans that destroyed the city and the sanctuary.
1 Kings 9:6-9 6But if ye shall at all turn from following me, ye or your children, and will not keep my commandments and my statutes which I have set before you, but go and serve other gods, and worship them: 7Then will I cut off Israel out of the land which I have given them; and this house, which I have hallowed for my name, will I cast out of my sight; and Israel shall be a proverb and a byword among all people: 8And at this house, which is high, every one that passeth by it shall be astonished, and shall hiss; and they shall say, Why hath the LORD done thus unto this land, and to this house? 9And they shall answer, Because they forsook the LORD their God, who brought forth their fathers out of the land of Egypt, and have taken hold upon other gods, and have worshipped them, and served them: therefore hath the LORD brought upon them all this evil. |
If you claim that it was the Romans that destroyed the city and the sanctuary, you are saying that God was not able to stop the destruction and giving His glory to another.
If you agree with what God says about the matter, then you will say God destroyed the city and the sanctuary in response to the wickedness of the children of Israel.
Josephus - Antiquities 20.8.5 164-166
Certain of these robbers went up to the city, as if they were going to worship God, while they had daggers under their garments; and, by thus mingling themselves among the multitude, they slew Jonathan [the high priest]; and as this murder was never avenged, the robbers went up with the greatest security at the festivals after this time; and having weapons concealed in like manner as before, and mingling themselves among the multitude, they slew certain of their own enemies, and were subservient to other men for money; and slew others not only in remote parts of the city, but in the Temple itself also; for they had the boldness to murder men there, without thinking of the impiety of which they were guilty.
And this seems to me to have been the reason why God, out of his hatred to these men's wickedness, rejected our city; and as for the Temple, he no longer esteemed it sufficiently pure for him to inhabit therein, but brought the Romans upon us, and threw a fire upon the city to purge it; and brought upon us, our wives, and children, slavery - as desirous to make us wiser by our calamities.
Certain of these robbers went up to the city, as if they were going to worship God, while they had daggers under their garments; and, by thus mingling themselves among the multitude, they slew Jonathan [the high priest]; and as this murder was never avenged, the robbers went up with the greatest security at the festivals after this time; and having weapons concealed in like manner as before, and mingling themselves among the multitude, they slew certain of their own enemies, and were subservient to other men for money; and slew others not only in remote parts of the city, but in the Temple itself also; for they had the boldness to murder men there, without thinking of the impiety of which they were guilty.
And this seems to me to have been the reason why God, out of his hatred to these men's wickedness, rejected our city; and as for the Temple, he no longer esteemed it sufficiently pure for him to inhabit therein, but brought the Romans upon us, and threw a fire upon the city to purge it; and brought upon us, our wives, and children, slavery - as desirous to make us wiser by our calamities.
genuineoriginal
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No, see Zechariah 6:1-7
genuineoriginal
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Have you forgotten the topic of the thread you started?
don't you have to use history to confirm what John was prophesying in Revelation?
benny balerio
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You Quote:
It was not the Romans that destroyed the city and the sanctuary.
My Reply:
Of course it was the romans that desrtoyed the city,..and of course it was Christ Jesus who prophecied the destruction of the temple.
The people of the prince who is to come - Note that it is not “the prince who is to come” that does the destroying, but “the people” of that prince. "The city and the sanctuary" in context is clearly a reference to Jerusalem and the Temple, which were destroyed in 70AD by Roman troops led by Titus Vespasian. Thus "the people" are identified as Roman and "the prince" will arise from the Roman empire.
Today,..when one compares maps to the old Roman Empire,...and tyhe E.U. including the Medterannian Union,...one will see a striking resemblance of the Old Roman Empire.
And today we find that recently that the Western European Union had dissolved last year in april,..and these same ten nations reappeared with the same functions and todat they call themselves "The Ten"
In the Book of Daniel 7;8,...Daniel sas that when these ten appeared,..that he considered them,...in other words,..when they appeared,..he was observing what was taking place on the world scene as time went on by...............But in the same verse,...he suddenly states...."And behold the little horn."
In other words,....eventually the antichrist appears onto the world scene once the 10 appear.
The catch is the Bride must be "Caught Up" prior to the antichrist appearance.
Look up for your redemption draweth nigh!
benny balerio
New member
It is the O.T. that helps us understand some of revelation more clearly.
Some of the scriptures in the O.T. are shadowtypes of something that will be completed in the last days.
For instance,...ANTIOCHUS EPIPHANES was a shadowtype of the coming antichrist
benny balerio
New member
My Point is this,...you claim that the first four seals were opened in 70AD.
And I and assuming that youi are referring to revelation chapter 6.
But your theory falls on it's face because John did not write the book of revelation until long after the destruction of the temple.
Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter (Revelation 1:19 KJV)
The “things which shall be hereafter” are the things that have not happened yet. When John was given the Revelation to record in around 95 AD, a majority of that revelation was yet unfulfilled prophecy which has yet to be realized, even today. This should bring comfort to the believer in Christ. Not only does Futurism put us WITHIN the context of Biblical revelation, it gives us assurance of the outcome: the total victory of Jesus Christ and the establishment of His kingdom upon the face of the whole earth, to be ruled from His throne in Jerusalem.
Also the Lord is still sitting on the mercy seat,...He has not yet opened the seals in judgement.
The last 7 years of Daniels 70th week has not yet begun.
When the seals are opened,..the Day of the Lord will have already begun.
genuineoriginal
New member
It was not the Romans that destroyed the city. Read Josephus' account on the matter.
The Romans were trying to avoid the destruction of Jerusalem and even put guards around the Temple to keep it from being harmed.
The "prince who is to come" is clearly identified in Daniel 9:25 as "Messiah, the prince" and it was the evil generation of Jewish people during the time of Jesus that destroyed the city and the sanctuary through unrepentance.
Luke 11:29-32 29And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet. 30For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation. 31The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with the men of this generation, and condemn them: for she came from the utmost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here. 32The men of Nineve shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here. |
genuineoriginal
New member
Epiphanius puts the date of the writing of Revelation as happening during the rein of Cladius Caesar (41-54 CE).
The last seven years of Daniel's prophecy ended about 3-1/2 years after Messiah the Prince was cut off.
The Day of the Lord on Jerusalem happened during the Roman-Jewish war, and all the time following has been the exile. The end of the exile is the gathering of the remnant followed by the Day of the Lord on the nations.
benny balerio
New member
The Titus Arch in Rome that celebrates the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD by Titus.
This is the beginning of the Latin inscription on this triumphal column dedicated to Titus, who led the siege against Jerusalem. The abbreviation "LEG-X-FRE" appears at the bottom, indicating that the column was erected by the Tenth Roman Legion. Most likely, this column stood at on of the entrances to the Roman temple in Jerusalem. The column was discovered as part of the foundation to a Moslem palace south of the Temple.
Applying the accepted rule of interpretation and observing the text for the nearest antecedent of the pronoun he (without bias or influence by other "experts"), this he most closely parallels the prince who is to come in the previous passage (Daniel 9:26). This is the conclusion reached by most conservative evangelical commentaries, who go on to identify him as the Little Horn (Antichrist) who "came up among the (10) horns" of the fourth beast (fourth kingdom "Revived Rome") chapter 7 of Daniel (Da 7:8,11 Da 7:20, 21.
We know that the prince's people (Rome) destroyed Jerusalem in 70 A.D., and can deduce that this coming prince has his ancestral roots in the ancient Roman Empire and is thus part of what is often referred to as "the revived Roman Empire", the final Gentile world government described in Romans 7 ( Da 7:7, Da 7:19). In the Revelation of Jesus Christ, John records this vision.
How can the reference be to Christ when we have just been introduced to the prince who is to come which describes one out of the Roman empire? Christ did not come from the Roman Empire but from Israel. Furthermore, when did Christ make a firm covenant with many Jews for one week (seven year period)? And how can it be said of Christ that “in the midst of the week” He caused the sacrifices to cease? Sacrifices continued in the Temple some 40 years after Messiah was cut off, well past the 7 years of the 70th Week. Clearly, the "he" is not Christ.
Jesus carries a sword,...not a bow without arrows.
benny balerio
New member
Can you tell us where Epiphanius received the source of his information,...after all,..he was not around when John wrote this book.
I really do not believe that you can answer that question.
You Quote:
The last seven years of Daniel's prophecy ended about 3-1/2 years after Messiah the Prince was cut off.
My Reply:
Oh! how so?
What has made you come to this conclusion,.....if you can,..please give a scripture that tells us this.
benny balerio
New member
13I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.
Any particular reason why you posted this?