Satan, Inc (TOL's heretic's list)
- Thread starter Choleric
- Start date
lifeisgood
New member
What about those who quote Jesus’ actual words and teachings and get called “the Devil?"
Jesus was a Galilean preacher in the first century.
This is a statement of FACT.
Jesus was divine.
This is a statement of FAITH.
I guess I am a Christian in exile.
I beleive Jesus said:
--Love your enemies
--Give to everyone who begs from you
--Pray to the Father in secret
--Do not judge
--“Why do you call me good? Only God is good.”
--“The Father makes his sun to shine on the evil and the good and sends his rain to fall on the righteous and the unrighteous.”
--“Friend, who made ME a judge over you?”
--“Go and learn what this means: [God] desires mercy--NOT sacrifice.”
Believers rarely acknowledge these sayings.
In fact, many of them even know they exist.
So they call me a rude or judgmental name and go on their way.
Idolater
"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
Jesus is risen from the dead.
This is BOTH.
Choleric
New member
surely there is more to this story.
Many people were said to have risen from the dead. There’s historical evidence that shows this.
There is no rational truth for these events to have happened--even though they have been written about in ancient texts.
Did Jesus rise bodily from the dead?
Did Muhammed go to heaven riding a gigantic white steed?
Was the Buddha born walking, talking and preaching?
These three events were all written down and were literally believed in by many.
So they must be true, right?
Caesar Augustus was actually known as Lord, Savior of the World, Son of a god and Redeemer.
Are you aware that these exalted terms were carved into the stone of the buildings and temples of ancient Rome?
Did you also know that these exact phrases were stamped on the coins as well?
Idolater
"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
If Christ didn't rise from the dead, then Christianity is a huge fraud, and Christ's Resurrection is a diabolical hoax, perpetrated by His Apostles, who had concluded a suicide pact among themselves (Judas dedicated it). If you don't believe in Christ's Resurrection as nonfiction historical fact, let alone that Jesus of Nazareth raised Himself up from the dead, then you belong on a list of those who are in some one critical way, not Christian.
Unless you're not claiming to be Christian; in which case :carryon:
But to be honest, one would have to say “Some people claimed Jesus rose from the dead.”
It has to be a faith claim. None of the gospels describe it actually happening. Resurrection in ancient times did not always mean resuscitation.
Whenever we literalize a sacred metaphor, we forfeit its great claim and hope.
Christianity is hardly a fraud in my view.
Jesus died and his power and presence were yet still felt by his followers.
What’s the big deal?
Rome did not win.
Death did not win.
The powers and principalities are defeated.
Jesus already saw “Satan fall like lightning from heaven.”
It’s helpful to find out what the term “resurrection” actually meant in Jesus’ day.
Jesus died and his power and presence were yet still felt by his followers.
What’s the big deal?
Rome did not win.
Death did not win.
The powers and principalities are defeated.
Jesus already saw “Satan fall like lightning from heaven.”
It’s helpful to find out what the term “resurrection” actually meant in Jesus’ day.
genuineoriginal
New member
The only people on the list are those people that do not agree with the heresies of Mid Acts Dispensationalists.
Idolater
"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
Well of course, just like "some people" claimed that Augustus was Caesar. All we have is what people claimed, unless there's some physical evidence. As far as that goes, fwiw, we've got the empty tomb (within the Church of the Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem; 'sepulcher' means tomb).
It is a faith claim because of the Christian faith being based in Christ's Resurrection. It is also a statement of fact.
The only authentically Christian view is that He was dead, and then He was alive again.
There is no greater hope than the Christian hope in resurrection. imo. You're free to your own opinion of course, as am I.
Neither in mine. I was echoing the Apostle Paul in saying that if Christ's Resurrection is a hoax, then and only then, but definitely then, Christianity is a fraud. But I don't believe that Christ's Resurrection is a hoax.
Because He is risen.
That the Christian Bible says that if Christ's Resurrection is a hoax, then Christianity is a fraud.
Rome wasn't even playing the game. Rome was a pawn in the game.
Because of Christian faith in Christ's Resurrection; founded upon Christ's Resurrection being nonfiction historical fact.
Otherwise the evidence strongly suggests that the Apostles, including Judas, concluded a suicide pact with each other for some reason, all along preaching to the whole world that Christ's Resurrection really happened.
The only authentically Christian meaning, is that He was dead, and then He was alive again.
You're free to your own view, I'm just pointing out where your view conflicts with the one (Eph4:5KJV) authentic Christian faith.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Faith is based on fact.
glorydaz
Well-known member
The question is....why did Jesus say all those things? So that we would STRIVE and strive to TRY and do them, or that we would trust in Him to do His work through us and in us.
Matthew 11:28
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Jesus said these things because he was a radical usurper.
Conventional wisdom said that the good prosper and the evil do not.
Common wisdom says God is neither corrupt or unclean.
Revenge is actually encouraged by the powers and principalities and rests on the idea that personal and national violence is redemptive.
With his parabolic teachings and the short, pithy sayings, Jesus turned this convential wisdom upside down.
His teachings dislocated the accepted reality of the world.
“You have heard it said ‘____________’ but I say: ‘________________.’ "
Jesus was disturbing. And he still is today.
In my opinion, this is exactly why the established church has drifted away from following Jesus and glommed on to worshiping Christ instead.
But worship does nothing for us.
It is a weak and passive act.
People always say in low, sonorous tones to “Beleive, Beleive and Beleive,” and yet not suffer the slightest urge to change their own behavior.
One can pledge to follow a list of accepted beliefs like a resurrected Jesus, a virgin-born leader, and Jesus as the Son of God.s
Christians can mandate this and require followers to assent to these beliefs, but unfortunately a person can believe all of these tenents and still be a jerk.
glorydaz
Well-known member
As if either of you, have a clue what that is.