Salvation is a matter of knowing & being known by God, not believing in God

[glorydaz]

Jesus only claimed to be the Son of God. He is begotten. He is not God Almighty himself, but at God's right hand. Not surprising you missed that given how you toss out any scripture that doesn't agree with you.

Not surprising you miss that Jesus Christ is Emmanuel (God with us).

Why do you toss that out? :think:

Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.​

1 Cor 15:27 For he “has put everything under his feet.”[c] Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.

Poor version, but it doesn't change the fact that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are EQUALS....not one above the other....which is the point you've stumbled over.

Romans 8:34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.

Hebrews 10:12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God

Speaking of the position of authority you had just alluded to.

You fail to understand the scriptures because you have no intent of understanding them. You say, "huh, this doesn't agree with me... better toss it out as one that doesn't apply to me."

Foolish charges uttered by a foolish man who refuses to be taught.

2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

And then you top it off by using Scripture to promote your own PRIDEFUL boasting. :nono:

 

[csuguy]

Poor unbelievers like you. You're just a mess.

I see you are running away from scripture once more, hiding behind non-sense platitudes.

The Word was GOD... and the Word was made flesh.... that you cannot believe is your own problem. John 1:1, 1:14

God was manifest in the flesh 1 Tim 3:16.

You should believe it.

Easily addressed without the need to toss out the plethora of scripture that so clearly contradict you. Moses was said to be Elohim, Angels were addressed as God, the Jewish people are called gods by scripture. We understand that none of these are literally God himself - but his representatives, his people. The same applies to Christ.

Genesis 1:27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

2 Corinthians 4:4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Colossians 1:15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

Hebrews 1:3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.


John 12:45 The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me.
​

You cherry-pick the scriptures to maintain your views, rather than seek the truth.

 

[csuguy]

Not surprising you miss that Jesus Christ is Emmanuel (God with us).

Why do you toss that out? :think:

Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.​

I don't toss it out at all. I simply understand what "God with us" means. Jesus is the image of the invisible God, the exact representation of his being, sent by God to us on his behalf, the sole mediator between God and men. There is a plethora of scriptures saying such things. You ignore them all in favor of cherry-picking a couple verses in isolation to defend your false doctrine.

Poor version, but it doesn't change the fact that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are EQUALS....not one above the other....which is the point you've stumbled over.

It isn't a poor version - that's what the verse states. As for the Father, Son, and HS being equals - that is simply false.

John 14:28 “You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.

Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Mark 14:62 “I am,” said Jesus. “And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

Luke 22:69 But from now on, the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the mighty God.”

Acts 2:33 Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.
​

Speaking of the position of authority you had just alluded to.

Not sure what you are trying to say here. The right hand of God is of course an incredibly high position of authority - but it's still #2. Christ is given his authority by God - he is not the source of that authority.

Foolish charges uttered by a foolish man who refuses to be taught.

Stop hiding behind isolated proof texts and platitudes - open your eyes to the plethora of scripture you choose to remain ignorant over. Your goal should be truth, not defending your clearly false doctrine.

And then you top it off by using Scripture to promote your own PRIDEFUL boasting. :nono:

1 Corinthians 1:31 Therefore, as it is written: “Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord.”

 

[Right Divider]

I see you are running away from scripture once more, hiding behind non-sense platitudes.

No, I am not. I stand by ALL of the scripture. Just not the silly way that you understand it.

Easily addressed without the need to toss out the plethora of scripture that so clearly contradict you. Moses was said to be Elohim, Angels were addressed as God, the Jewish people are called gods by scripture. We understand that none of these are literally God himself - but his representatives, his people. The same applies to Christ.

Genesis 1:27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

2 Corinthians 4:4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Colossians 1:15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

Hebrews 1:3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

John 12:45 The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me.
​

You cherry-pick the scriptures to maintain your views, rather than seek the truth.

That is so hilarious considering that YOU just cherry-picked some scripture and applied YOUR incorrect understanding to them.

You have not the slightest clue what CONTEXT means. You are a dictionary theologian. You must think that Jesus is made of wood, since He says "I am the door...".

 

[csuguy]

No, I am not. I stand by ALL of the scripture. Just not the silly way that you understand it.

Oh, please share your interpretation of the verses in question. So far all you've done is run away from them.

That is so hilarious considering that YOU just cherry-picked some scripture and applied YOUR incorrect understanding to them.

You have not the slightest clue what CONTEXT means. You are a dictionary theologian. You must think that Jesus is made of wood, since He says "I am the door...".

None of those verses are cherry-picked, but rather represent the consistent teaching of the scriptures. Of course, rather than try to actually address these scriptures you run behind more platitudes.

 

[Right Divider]

Oh, please share your interpretation of the verses in question. So far all you've done is run away from them.

No, I don't have to run.

You seem to have run from John 1 though. It is so clear that even a child can understand it, but not someone so smart like you.

None of those verses are cherry-picked, but rather represent the consistent teaching of the scriptures. Of course, rather than try to actually address these scriptures you run behind more platitudes.

Wrong.

1Ti 3:16 KJV And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.​

That is just a clear as can be and I don't need to show why Moses is not God.

Joh 1:1 KJV In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.​

Joh 1:14 KJV And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.​

Why is this so hard for you? (never mind, I already know).

Col 2:9 KJV For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.​

I have no doubt that you'll run to sixty difference "Bible translations" to "fix" those. Or perhaps you'll be an expert in ancient languages.

 

[csuguy]

No, I don't have to run.

You did run and continue to. Hence you haven't addressed the scriptures at all. You just fallback to cherry-picked proof texts.

You seem to have run from John 1 though. It is so clear that even a child can understand it, but not someone so smart like you.

I addressed John 1 easily. The scriptures use the term "God" much more freely than what you suppose. Moses has been called God, Angels have been called God, and the Jews in general are referred to as gods. That Jesus is also addressed as God is just more of the same - and just as clear from the context that the term is not meant to be understood literally.

He is the Son of God - not God himself. He is given his authority - not the source of it. He is the servant of God - not his equal. God sends, Jesus is sent.

Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus.

Wrong.

1Ti 3:16 KJV And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.​

Already addressed. Jesus is the image of God, his representative. Jesus carried out his will. Thus God was made manifest (aka revealed) via Christ.

John 12:45 The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me.​

But this was only so for those who accepted him. Those who did not accept him did not see or hear God:

John 5:37-38 And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, 38 nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent.​

That is just a clear as can be and I don't need to show why Moses is not God.

It is obvious that Moses isn't literally God, despite being addressed as such. It's equally clear that Jesus isn't literally God - but the servant of God. Jesus is the Son of God, begotten, sent.

Why is this so hard for you? (never mind, I already know).

Col 2:9 KJV For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.​

I have no doubt that you'll run to sixty difference "Bible translations" to "fix" those. Or perhaps you'll be an expert in ancient languages.

First off, I love the irony of speaking of needing to run to different bible translations to fix the translation when you explicitly run to a corrupt Old English translation. Sad.

Secondly, I haven't had any need to use select translations or to dig into ancient Greek/Hebrew for any of this. You think all you need to do is find a passage that references Jesus as God and that that substantiates your view - but that will only ever convince people who are unstudied in the scriptures. Those who know how liberally the scriptures apply the term "God" know that that's a far cry from establishing that the individual in question is literally God Almighty.

You say the fullness of God dwelled in him? I agree. For God was with him, and he gave him the HS. Doesn't make him God Almighty himself. Rather, all the verses presented thus far make it quite clear he isn't God Almighty himself.

 

[Right Divider]

You did run and continue to. Hence you haven't addressed the scriptures at all. You just fallback to cherry-picked proof texts.

Nope...

I addressed John 1 easily. The scriptures use the term "God" much more freely than what you suppose. Moses has been called God, Angels have been called God, and the Jews in general are referred to as gods. That Jesus is also addressed as God is just more of the same - and just as clear from the context that the term is not meant to be understood literally.

So simple for you to reject the real meaning of scripture.

He is the Son of God - not God himself. He is given his authority - not the source of it. He is the servant of God - not his equal. God sends, Jesus is sent.

The Son of God is God. Son's have the same nature as their father. Even the unbelieving Jews understand the Lord's claim to be God, but you cannot.

Joh 5:18 KJV Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.​

Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus.

Wow... a scripture quote... great job.

Already addressed. Jesus is the image of God, his representative. Jesus carried out his will. Thus God was made manifest (aka revealed) via Christ.

John 12:45 The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me.​

Are you like keypurr thinking that Jesus is a "photocopy of God"? The image of God means that He is God in the flesh. Sad that you cannot accept the truth.

But this was only so for those who accepted him. Those who did not accept him did not see or hear God:

John 5:37-38 And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, 38 nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent.​

:juggle:

It is obvious that Moses isn't literally God, despite being addressed as such. It's equally clear that Jesus isn't literally God - but the servant of God. Jesus is the Son of God, begotten, sent.

It is obvious that Moses is not literally God, just as it is obvious that Jesus is literally God.

First off, I love the irony of speaking of needing to run to different bible translations to fix the translation when you explicitly run to a corrupt Old English translation. Sad.

Go ahead and provide proof of CORRUPTIONS in the KJB. You cannot, but you'll try.

Secondly, I haven't had any need to use select translations or to dig into ancient Greek/Hebrew for any of this. You think all you need to do is find a passage that references Jesus as God and that that substantiates your view - but that will only ever convince people who are unstudied in the scriptures. Those who know how liberally the scriptures apply the term "God" know that that's a far cry from establishing that the individual in question is literally God Almighty.

You say the fullness of God dwelled in him? I agree. For God was with him, and he gave him the HS. Doesn't make him God Almighty himself. Rather, all the verses presented thus far make it quite clear he isn't God Almighty himself.

That you cannot understand the two natures that Christ possesses is a shame on you.

The same John 1 that you play games with makes it clear the the Lord Jesus Christ is the CREATOR OF ALL THINGS.

Joh 1:1-3 KJV In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (2) The same was in the beginning with God. (3) All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.​

No doubt that you have a silly explanation for that too.

 

[csuguy]

Nope...

Yep. Still waiting...

So simple for you to reject the real meaning of scripture.

Address the scriptures and the argument. Responses like these are just more running away.

The Son of God is God.

If you have a son, is that son you? Is it EVER the case that the son is the father? No. Dumb position to take - especially when so many scriptures explicitly differentiate and subordinate the Son to God. Scriptures that you keep ignoring and running away from.

Son's have the same nature as their father. Even the unbelieving Jews understand the Lord's claim to be God, but you cannot.

Joh 5:18 KJV Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.​

Read that verse in context. Those Jews didn't understand what they were saying and got rebuked. You would rather take their ill conceived position than that of Christ who rebuked them.

John 10:31-36 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?” 33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.” 34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[d]? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?​

Jesus turns around their false accusation. First he points out that the scriptures call all of them "gods" - so even if he did make such an assertion, it would be inline with the scriptures. Secondly, he makes clear what his actual claim is ("I am God's Son") and asks why they consider that blasphemy?

Indeed, Jesus never asserted of himself that he was God, but only ever God's Son.

Wow... a scripture quote... great job.

Just one more scripture that makes it clear that Jesus is the servant of God, not God himself. I know, there's so many of them that adding one more doesn't have much of a shock factor - but it's these plethora of scriptures that you are up against.

Are you like keypurr thinking that Jesus is a "photocopy of God"? The image of God means that He is God in the flesh. Sad that you cannot accept the truth.

An image of someone/something is never the person/thing in question. Come now, this is basic stuff.

Hence the scriptures say that we were made in the image of God. Tell me, what do you think that means? Was Adam God?

:juggle:

I'm sure that passage went right over your head. If we take the idea that Jesus was God in the flesh in the most literal sense, John 5:37-38 wouldn't make sense. They saw and heard Jesus, so if Jesus = God, then they saw and heard God. But Jesus isn't literally God, so the passage isn't in contradiction with Jesus' identity.

It is obvious that Moses is not literally God, just as it is obvious that Jesus is literally God.

And that's why Jesus declared himself to be God and laid out the doctrine of the Trinity for us. Oh, wait, no he didn't. He claimed to be the Son of God, sent by God. He claimed the Father was Greater. He said all of his authority and power were given to him. He said he would be at God's right hand. etc.

No, it is abundantly clear that Jesus didn't claim to be God - nor did the disciples nor Paul claim that Jesus was God. They considered him a servant of God.

Go ahead and provide proof of CORRUPTIONS in the KJB. You cannot, but you'll try.

A different discussion, and one that doesn't require my contributions. There is an abundance of academic material on the subject. At any rate, using the KJV won't help you in this discussion.

That you cannot understand the two natures that Christ possesses is a shame on you.

Shame on you for ignoring the abundance of scripture that so clearly differentiates Jesus from God.

The same John 1 that you play games with makes it clear the the Lord Jesus Christ is the CREATOR OF ALL THINGS.

Joh 1:1-3 KJV In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (2) The same was in the beginning with God. (3) All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.​

No doubt that you have a silly explanation for that too.

There are some different ways to approach it. One that was popular with the Church Fathers was to identify Christ as the Wisdom in the OT.

When I read this passage I tend to view the Logos here as being God's plan. Jesus being described as the Word made flesh = the plan being put into action and made reality.

At any rate, it is a moot point before the overwhelming testimony of the scriptures which make it abundantly clear that he is not literally God himself.

 

[Right Divider]

If you have a son, is that son you? Is it EVER the case that the son is the father? No. Dumb position to take - especially when so many scriptures explicitly differentiate and subordinate the Son to God. Scriptures that you keep ignoring and running away from.

Who would anyone take such a position? I don't.

I am a human and my son has that same nature.

God is God and so is His ONLY begotten Son. And no, begotten does NOT means created.

Read that verse in context. Those Jews didn't understand what they were saying and got rebuked. You would rather take their inconvenienced position than that of Christ who rebuked them.

John 10:31-36 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?” 33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.” 34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[d]? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?​

Jesus turns around their false accusation. First he points out that the scriptures call all of them "gods" - so even if he did make such an assertion, it would be inline with the scriptures. Secondly, he makes clear what his actual claim is ("I am God's Son") and asks why they consider that blasphemy?

:dizzy:
You're incredibly adept at getting things wrong and turning Scripture on its head. Jesus was mocking them with His "all gods" quote of scripture.

Indeed, Jesus never asserted of himself that he was God, but only ever God's Son.

The Lord claimed His deity many times. You just put your magic spin on the "scripture" to force your story onto it.

Just one more scripture that makes it clear that Jesus is the servant of God, not God himself. I know, there's so many of them that adding one more doesn't have much of a shock factor - but it's these plethora of scriptures that you are up against.

And again you cannot understand that Christ has two natures: God and Man.

An image of someone/something is never the person/thing in question. Come now, this is basic stuff.

So you really do believe that the Lord Jesus Christ is a photo-copy of God. Amusing.

Hence the scriptures say that we were made in the image of God. Tell me, what do you think that means? Was Adam God?

Again your "dictionary theology" fails you.

I'm sure that passage went right over your head. If we take the idea that Jesus was God in the flesh in the most literal sense, John 5:37-38 wouldn't make sense. They saw and heard Jesus, so if Jesus = God, then they saw and heard God. But Jesus isn't literally God, so the passage isn't in contradiction with Jesus' identity.

Two natures.... The Lord Jesus Christ is the Lord from heaven. No doubt your'll obfuscate "Lord" now.

And that's why Jesus declared himself to be God and laid out the doctrine of the Trinity for us. Oh, wait, no he didn't. He claimed to be the Son of God, sent by God. He claimed the Father was Greater. He said all of his authority and power were given to him. He said he would be at God's right hand. etc.

No, it is abundantly clear that Jesus didn't claim to be God - nor did the disciples nor Paul claim that Jesus was God. They considered him a servant of God.

Here is a simple and clear case of Paul calling the Lord Jesus Christ God... I have complete confidence that you will not understand it either.

This is a scripture that Paul quotes twice in his epistles:

Isa 45:23 KJV I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

​

Rom 14:10-12 KJV But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. (11) For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. (12) So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.​

​

Php 2:9-11 KJV Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: (10) That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; (11) And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.​

Note that there in ONLY ONE name that is above every name... and that is God.

A different discussion, and one that doesn't require my contributions. There is an abundance of academic material on the subject. At any rate, using the KJV won't help you in this discussion.

I don't need help, I just quote and believe the Bible.

Shame on you for ignoring the abundance of scripture that so clearly differentiates Jesus from God.

Simple mistakes on your part.

There are some different ways to approach it. One that was popular with the Church Fathers was to identify Christ as the Wisdom in the OT.

See... I knew you'd use some misdirection. That scripture is specifically speaking about the God that was made flesh.

When I read this passage I tend to view the Logos here as being God's plan. Jesus being described as the Word made flesh = the plan being put into action and made reality.

Yes, we know that you have a "view" that is skewed.

At any rate, it is a moot point before the overwhelming testimony of the scriptures which make it abundantly clear that he is not literally God himself.

Keep on being wrong if you like, it suits you.

 

[csuguy]

Who would anyone take such a position? I don't.

I am a human and my son has that same nature.

God is God and so is His ONLY begotten Son. And no, begotten does NOT means created.

Same nature? Sure. Jesus is the image of God. But a son is never the father - who, in this case, is God. Nor is an image the same as the one it depicts.

And, yes, begotten does mean created.

At any rate, I tire of this conversation. You have no intentions of responding to the arguments or scriptures I post. Just a bunch of posturing, platitudes, and otherwise running away from everything that so clearly contradicts you. Come back when you can discuss the scriptures honestly.

 

[Right Divider]

Same nature? Sure. Jesus is the image of God. But a son is never the father - who, in this case, is God. Nor is an image the same as the one it depicts.

Just keep beating your straw-man. Must feel good.

And, yes, begotten does mean created.

No, it doesn't. You constant claims no matter how often repeated, mean nothing.

At any rate, I tire of this conversation. You have no intentions of responding to the arguments or scriptures I post. Just a bunch of posturing, platitudes, and otherwise running away from everything that so clearly contradicts you. Come back when you can discuss the scriptures honestly.

K:

 

[csuguy]

Just keep beating your straw-man. Must feel good.

Not a straw man - you have explicitly argued that the Son of God is God himself. But the son is never the father.

No, it doesn't. You constant claims no matter how often repeated, mean nothing.

The same can be said of your denial. The term begotten was used because of its natural meaning - not for whatever meaning you want to try to infuse it with.

 

[Right Divider]

Not a straw man - you have explicitly argued that the Son of God is God himself. But the son is never the father.

Indeed it IS a straw-man, because NOBODY has ever made the claim that the SON IS THE FATHER.

The same can be said of your denial. The term begotten was used because of its natural meaning - not for whatever meaning you want to try to infuse it with.

The BIBLE makes the statement that each member of the trinity is GOD.

 

[csuguy]

Indeed it IS a straw-man, because NOBODY has ever made the claim that the SON IS THE FATHER.

First off, he is called the Son of God, not Son of the Father. So you are the one putting forth a strawman here. "Son of God" means that "God" is the father of the "Son". Not difficult.

Secondly, within the scriptures the Father = God anyways. The scriptures don't divide God up into different personas.

Hebrews 1:5 For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father”? Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”?​

The BIBLE makes the statement that each member of the trinity is GOD.

The Bible doesn't know of the Trinity to begin with - it's a non-sense doctrine that took hundreds of years to form. No the scriptures are quite clear that Jesus is the Son of God and that he is the servant of God.

 

[Right Divider]

First off, he is called the Son of God, not Son of the Father.

That might be the dumbest thing that you've ever posted.

Matt 7:21 (AKJV/PCE)​

(7:21) ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
​

Jesus says that God is HIS FATHER.

I'm almost stunned that you do not even understand the relationship between the FATHER and the SON.

But I'm not stunned, because you have proven your confusion again and again.

 

[csuguy]

That might be the dumbest thing that you've ever posted.

Matt 7:21 (AKJV/PCE)​

(7:21) ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
​

Jesus says that God is HIS FATHER.

I'm almost stunned that you do not even understand the relationship between the FATHER and the SON.

But I'm not stunned, because you have proven your confusion again and again.

Oh I understand that relationship very well - it's just contradictory to you and your Trinity doctrine.

You acknowledge that the Father = God. This is somewhat unexpected - but good. I agree.

Now let us return to the other obvious truth: a son is never the father.

If God is the Father of the Son, then the Son is not God.

Thus, the Trinity is false. Easy.

 

[Right Divider]

Oh I understand that relationship very well - it's just contradictory to you and your Trinity doctrine.

No, it is not. Your constant use of your vain opinions does not prove anything.

You acknowledge that the Father = God. This is somewhat unexpected - but good. I agree.

The Bible never says that "the Father = God". The Bible says that the Father is God and that the Son is God and that the Holy Spirit is God.

Now let us return to the other obvious truth: a son is never the father.

Neither I nor the doctrine of the trinity say that.

If God is the Father of the Son, then the Son is not God.

Babbling nonsense.

The Bible never says that "God is the Father of the Son".

Thus, the Trinity is false. Easy.

Thus, you've only proven that you to not understand what the Bible says.

 

[Bright Raven]

John 3:16 New International Version (NIV)
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

 

[csuguy]

No, it is not. Your constant use of your vain opinions does not prove anything.

Yes it does. Hence you are now backpedaling in this post.

The Bible never says that "the Father = God". The Bible says that the Father is God and that the Son is God and that the Holy Spirit is God.

Ah, lovely backpedaling. But once more you are wrong - and I have already provided such scripture.

Hebrews 1:5 For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father”[a]? Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”?​

Here GOD says he is the Father of the SON. The scriptures declare the same wherever they say Jesus is the Son of God. For if Jesus is the Son of God, then God is the Father of Jesus. Simple stuff.

Neither I nor the doctrine of the trinity say that.

You already conceded this obvious truth earlier. You can try to backpedal and deny it now, but it won't change the obvious truth of the statement that the son is never the father. Nor again is an image that which it depicts.

Babbling nonsense.

The Bible never says that "God is the Father of the Son".

It does, for it says that Jesus is the "Son of God," which means the same thing.