Sabbath

[oatmeal]

We are no longer under the law for righteousness so were are no longer under the law of the Sabbath either

 

[Squeaky]

We are no longer under the law for righteousness so were are no longer under the law of the Sabbath either

I said
That is true. Its now ok if you do keep the Sabbath but its also ok if you dont. Its a choice not a law.

 

[DansingWall]

Can you explain the meaning of the word "covenant?"

Well lets look at this together

LEVITICUS 24 [8] EVERY SABBATH he shall set it in order before the LORD continually, being taken from the children of Israel by an EVERLASTING COVENANT.

What do you think?

ISAIAH 24 [3] The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken this word. [4] THE EARTH MOURNETH AND FADETH AWAY, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish. [5] The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, BROKEN THE EVERLASTING COVENANT.

This is a day of the Lord scripture. It has not yet come to pass. It surely will. Is the everlasting covenant the same one found in Lev.24? What do you think?

PS- Day of the Lord scriptures are not only for Israel.

 

[DansingWall]

The 4th commandment wasn't changed, the commandments in whole were annulled.

The early Christians should have seen this coming. They were actually givin many warnings about the bad guys and what they would do. The warnings are all around the new testament.

1 PETER 5 [8] Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a ROARING LION, walketh about, SEEKING WHOM HE MAY DEVOUR:

ROARING LIONS! The bad guys

MATT.7 [14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.[15] Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are RAVENING WOLVES.

FALSE PROPHETS! They are RAVENING WOLVES. “The many” will follow these false prophets and but a few will take the way of life.

ACTS 20 [29] For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous WOLVES ENTER IN among you, not sparing the flock.[30] Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, TO DRAW AWAY DISCIPLES after them.

The GRIEVOUS WOLVES been hangin round from the beginning

EPH.4 [17] This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth WALK NOT AS OTHER GENTILES walk, in the VANITY of their mind,[18] Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:[19] Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all UNCLEANNESS with GREEDINESS.

All these warnings from the new testament are found in one scripture. “Day of the Lord” scriptures are not about ancient Israel. That day has not yet come. Day of the Lord scriptures do apply to christians (those who believe that Jesus came) and these scriptures will come to pass. To see what these ROARING LIONS and RAVENOUS WOLVES have done, simply read and believe the Word.

EZEK.22 [23] And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,[24] Son of man, say unto her, Thou art the land that is not cleansed, nor rained upon in the day of indignation.[25] There is A CONSPIRACY OF HER PROPHETS in the midst thereof, like a ROARING LION ravening the prey; THEY HAVE DEVOURED SOULS; they have taken the treasure and precious things; they have made her many widows in the midst thereof.[26] HER PRIESTS HAVE VIOLATED MY LAW, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the UNCLEAN AND THE CLEAN, and HAVE HID THEIR EYES FROM MY SABBATHS, and I am profaned among them.[27] Her princes in the midst thereof are like WOLVES RAVENING THE PREY, to shed blood, and to destroy souls, to get DISHONEST GAIN.[28] And her prophets have daubed them with untempered morter, SEEING VANITY, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord GOD, when the LORD hath not spoken

Lions and wolves and false prophets...oh my! A conspiracy of the prophets. HID THEIR EYES FROM MY SABBATHS! They meant to do it and they sure did pull it off despite the warnings. Up until the printing press, bibles were pretty scarce but even if someone discovered the Ezek.22 scripture Im sure the powers that be would have silenced that someone. Short of going before the wizard Rosenritter....How did these bad guys pull this off? No stawman jokes please.

 

[Squeaky]

Well lets look at this together

LEVITICUS 24 [8] EVERY SABBATH he shall set it in order before the LORD continually, being taken from the children of Israel by an EVERLASTING COVENANT.

What do you think?

ISAIAH 24 [3] The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken this word. [4] THE EARTH MOURNETH AND FADETH AWAY, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish. [5] The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, BROKEN THE EVERLASTING COVENANT.

This is a day of the Lord scripture. It has not yet come to pass. It surely will. Is the everlasting covenant the same one found in Lev.24? What do you think?

PS- Day of the Lord scriptures are not only for Israel.

I said
What did Jesus say about the old testament.

[Jhn 10:1, 8
[1] "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. ...
[8] "All who [ever] came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.

 

[Squeaky]

The early Christians should have seen this coming. They were actually givin many warnings about the bad guys and what they would do. The warnings are all around the new testament.

1 PETER 5 [8] Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a ROARING LION, walketh about, SEEKING WHOM HE MAY DEVOUR:

ROARING LIONS! The bad guys

MATT.7 [14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.[15] Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are RAVENING WOLVES.

FALSE PROPHETS! They are RAVENING WOLVES. “The many” will follow these false prophets and but a few will take the way of life.

ACTS 20 [29] For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous WOLVES ENTER IN among you, not sparing the flock.[30] Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, TO DRAW AWAY DISCIPLES after them.

The GRIEVOUS WOLVES been hangin round from the beginning

EPH.4 [17] This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth WALK NOT AS OTHER GENTILES walk, in the VANITY of their mind,[18] Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:[19] Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all UNCLEANNESS with GREEDINESS.

All these warnings from the new testament are found in one scripture. “Day of the Lord” scriptures are not about ancient Israel. That day has not yet come. Day of the Lord scriptures do apply to christians (those who believe that Jesus came) and these scriptures will come to pass. To see what these ROARING LIONS and RAVENOUS WOLVES have done, simply read and believe the Word.

EZEK.22 [23] And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,[24] Son of man, say unto her, Thou art the land that is not cleansed, nor rained upon in the day of indignation.[25] There is A CONSPIRACY OF HER PROPHETS in the midst thereof, like a ROARING LION ravening the prey; THEY HAVE DEVOURED SOULS; they have taken the treasure and precious things; they have made her many widows in the midst thereof.[26] HER PRIESTS HAVE VIOLATED MY LAW, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the UNCLEAN AND THE CLEAN, and HAVE HID THEIR EYES FROM MY SABBATHS, and I am profaned among them.[27] Her princes in the midst thereof are like WOLVES RAVENING THE PREY, to shed blood, and to destroy souls, to get DISHONEST GAIN.[28] And her prophets have daubed them with untempered morter, SEEING VANITY, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord GOD, when the LORD hath not spoken

Lions and wolves and false prophets...oh my! A conspiracy of the prophets. HID THEIR EYES FROM MY SABBATHS! They meant to do it and they sure did pull it off despite the warnings. Up until the printing press, bibles were pretty scarce but even if someone discovered the Ezek.22 scripture Im sure the powers that be would have silenced that someone. Short of going before the wizard Rosenritter....How did these bad guys pull this off? No stawman jokes please.

I said
lol You seem to want to justify the old testament. That is going to be your down fall.

[2Jo 1:8-11
[8] Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but [that] we may receive a full reward.
[9] Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
[10] If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;
[11] for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.

 

[clefty]

Preface:

1. Please stop using the term "goyim." It's offensive and I'm not the only person who's agreed on this.

according to jews it is NOT an offensive term and since you follow jewish thinking even that their customs were changed/destroyed by Yahushua, you should easily also follow them that...

2. Using complete sentences would make your writing seem more coherent and enable it to be more easily understood.

would be less a problem I am sure if I would agree with your majority view...feel free to allow that to be the reason you reject the message...and tap out

Body:

3. Please explain what you mean by your assertion that "only that the Colossians were keeping the Sabbath?"
a) Do you mean that every Colossian was keeping Sabbaths?
b) Or do you mean that at least some of the Colossians were keeping Sabbaths?

Paul was writing Colossians who were believing AND THEREFORE keeping the Sabbath...

but Paul here is dealing with a new heresy of Gnostic practice regarding the keeping of the Shadows...and not whether or not they are observed but how which manner and motive.

Verse 11,13 makes clear they were uncircumcised but now obedient...their flesh and worldly ways PUT OFF...dead to self resurrected in Him HIS WAY

That's the only way I can interpret your statement, but scripture doesn't affirm either one of those meanings. I can interpret Col 2:16 to mean that at least some new Christians were attempting to keep Sabbaths, but from the words we are given that isn't necessarily in the church of the Colossians. Paul could have also been referring to Jews in Jerusalem who were judging against the Colossian brethren.

I understand what you want it to read...but again Paul wanted only those in the BODY OF CHRIST to judge by which manner or motive these shadows were being kept...

https://www.cogwriter.com/news/chur...sons-more-do-not-keep-the-biblical-holy-days/

4) You are asserting that the Gentile coverts were keeping sabbaths, holy days, abstaining from unclean meats, and who knows how many other Old Covenant of the Law of Moses, and that this was so common and understood that it is never mentioned. the problem with your assertion is that it remains unproven and not backed by scripture or other historical evidence.

you merely reveal your bias and reluctance to study further...

already in Act 15 the problem of believing goyim crowding the synagogues necessitated 4 rules of conduct for fellowship...

happily YOUR uncircumcised rebellious hostility towards the customs and manner of worship in the first century Way was NOT felt by other goyim crowding to hear of One resurrected and the manner by which He lived and ask of us to follow if we love Him...

it took centuries of anti Semitic and racism to finally divorce the new church from its Hebraic roots...

finally centuries later an exasperated Constantine demanded a fixed date for Easter rather than follow the Passover calendations...who needs jews right?

To the contrary, Peter calls the Old Covenant laws "a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear" (see Acts 15:10)

that yoke was the insistence by judiazers that goyim circumcise TO BE SAVED and clean themselves up to fellowship...both teachings NOT found in the OT

Of course your hatred of all things OT causes you to think Peter and Paul and myriads of believing jews ZEALOUS FOR THE LAW Acts 21:20 and the goyim crowding the synagogues ALSO HATE the customs Moses gave...

oh and of course Yahushua destroyed them was the false witness claim of slandering jews

and instead of saying that the Gentiles shall be saved even as the Jews, he puts it the other way around, "But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they" (Acts 15:211).

indeed saved by grace of Him...and IN HIM no jew or goyim...but Israel...so were only jews given the festivals and sabbaths and shadows? NO...but Israel...His people...is why Heb. 4:9

Paul even says jews will be made jealous to be grafted back in...Romans 11:13-14

Do not repeat your assertion as if it were accepted fact unless and until you can provide evidence. Otherwise you are just mouthing hot air, and it isn't convincing anyone (therefore, what is the point?)

the fact that goyim were to properly slaughter their meat, (again please dont argue that killing swine properly makes it clean) drain it of blood (again please don’t argue that draining swine of blood makes it clean) or not offered to idols (again please don’t argue that swine meat NOT offered to idols was OK for Sabbath potluck at the synagogue after hearing Moses preached and read)

Again your uncircumcised rebellious hatred for the new covenant lifestyle He demonstrated and taught was NOT felt by the goyim now clean and crowding synagogues...

After the first Roman-Jewish war Rome tolerated jews their ancient practice...jews also paid roman taxes...but jews hated christians happily threw them under any bus possible...all the easier that christians refused to pay those same taxes

Christians were now neither accepted nor tolerated by due paying jews and NOT a religion but now a superstitio...and Rome did not tolerant superstitious sects or schisms...as it was an empire of LAWS and had NO tolerance for non fee

But enough for now from me on all that

Yah speed your travel through history and law for a better understanding as to why the early sect known as “the WAY” was followed by Paul who copied Christ...and myraids of others with NO DISTINCTION between jew and goyim...except IN HIM there being neither...but a new man hated by both ROME AND JEW...lol

5) Jesus did say to pray that their flight be not in the winter or the Sabbath. He did NOT say that the fleeing would be "transgressing the Sabbath" any more than the fleeing would be "transgressing the Winter." I trust that you have enough semblance of logic to see the obvious hole in your claim / assumption. Fleeing in the winter is difficult because it it cold. Fleeing on the Sabbath is difficult because the Jews close the gates to the city. The focus was on fleeing regardless of winter or sabbaths. That passage does not lend support your claim.

oh my...

so the walls of the city enclosed the entirety of Judea did it? Because that is who Yahushua warned and not just those in Jerusalem...

good effort though your uncircumcised rebellious hostility has caused you to read up on your doubling down on the jewish claim that Stephen and Paul taught Yahushua changed the customs...

Luke of course is clear that this jewish claim is FALSE WITNESS...meant to slander and deceive...

Yahushua expected both winter times and Sabbath times to continue

6) Those shadows already fulfilled their purpose, and they were part of a covenant that God himself broke with the people.

if they were already fulfilled then Paul would have written “WERE” but he didn’t despite greek having past tense...he wrote they “ARE”...so they remain...

Obviously when Yahushua taught and demonstrated the new covenant which was to replace the old He signed and sealed it at His death. And once the testator of a last will is dead well then it is sealed no changes to the testator WILL...is why we follow Him...DO AS HE DID...LOVE AS HE LOVED US...and ask WWJD? Do that...as did Paul who said copy him as he copied Christ

I don't suppose you noticed when we are told that the law was "not the very image of the things" to come.

indeed the law was not the very image...but a reflection of Him His character and Will...no stealing as He didnt no murdering as He didnt no adultery as He didnt no coveting as He didnt...I hope you see the pattern yes?

The 10 commandments were descriptions as to what life was like where “I AM”...so living obedient to the Law is practice to when it will be like when we are there where “I AM” as it was BEFORE SIN...just like...

BTW-I don’t suppose you noticed when we are told that the law IS not the very image of things to come Heb 10:1 that it is PRESENT TENSE meaning well it still doesn’t perfect...duh...only He can do that...our love AS HE LOVED US fulfills it though

God is not returning to earth to reestablish Mosiac law or the Old Covenant, that law is not the image of that which is to come.

that law is INDEED the image of Who is to come...but yes not to begin blood sacrifices at national temple built by zionist hands...

And I bet when He returns we wont be on the papel Gregorian calendar with it’s New Years and christmasses and easter ham...

Colossians 2:14-17 KJV(14) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
(15) And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
(16) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
(17) Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

yup blotting out the ordnance shot directly at us for our crime but not the Law itself...the Law was not handwritten by man...but by finger of Yah Himself...

Let no one but the BODY OF CHRIST judge the manner and reason for your keeping the shadows...BECAUSE the ordnance shot at you was taken BY HIM

Hebrews 10:1-2 KJV
(1) For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
(2) For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

yup...having...notice that? STILL HAVING...and duh the PEOPLE FAILED NOT THE LAW...it was never designed to perfect...but to lead to the One Who can perfect...it is the GOAL the TELOS in greek of the Law...

Notice that "the law" includes both the handwriting of ordinances and the sacrifices which were offered by priests.

not so fast slick...the ordinances against you were the REASON YOU MADE SACRIFICES...to absolve yourself and make atONEment with Him...

Again because they were blotted out you LEARN MERCY rather than sacrifice...get it? Your sacrificed life and of your lips circumcised your heart and life TO KEEP THE SHADOWS which of course POINT TO HIM....STILL

If you are saying that we should all be keeping sabbaths, are you at least consistent in saying that we should also be offering animal sacrifices? For these are both equal parts of the law. I doubt that you are being consistent.

Sabbaths were established prior sin...certainly even before the Law was given when the church was in the desert...as for the festivals that is HIS CALENDAR...

The Law was revealed to Israel in the desert...but you think His people lived without it prior? Adam Noah Abraham et al could all sin? worship other gods make idols steal fornicate murder etc...hardly...Joseph even knew it was a SIN against Yah not Potiphar to sleep with his wife...

you conflating moral law and sacrificial law is typical...Christianity has done EVERYTHING it could to rid itself of the “jewish” Sabbath...even now some MAD or insisting it doesnt apply to them...perhaps they are not MAN it was made for?

You are forgetting also these festivals were still kept even by the apostles...no bloodletting mentioned BTW

7) You have not demonstrated that the New Covenant is simply an extension of the Old.

That is the exact opposite of what we are told in Hebrews 8:13, where the Old Covenant is even called "that which decayeth and waxeth old." The Old Covenant was decaying even then. That is not language that agrees with your assertion.

jews killed their husband and ended their “I DO”...that husband was resurrected and is looking for a new bride...a new marriage...His tastes remain the same...a woman holy pure obedient and faithful to HIM HIS WAYS

8) You seem to think that it was significant that people met in the synagogues. It's not significant at all it's simply a time and place where people can meet, and a special place because there they can find the Hebrew scriptures.

They wouldn't find the prophets held in the local temple of Diana, and you go to preach where and when the people can be found. Just like when Paul went to Mars Hill, it didn't mean he had become a Philosopher, he went there to preach to the philosophers. So how do you preach to the Jews? You go to the Jews, Where do you find Jews? You find them in the synagogues on the seventh day. And where do Gentiles hear the gospel from? They hear it first from Jewish apostles and their converts.

yes to find obedient faithful still believing in HIM and zealous for the Law jews because they did NOT believe He changed their customs...duh...that claim was by other non believing jews and was a FALSE WITNESS

If Yahushua had destroyed the Law or if it was going to be changed then it did NOT matter when they met...or the teaching that it was all changed would be ITEM # 2 after He is RISEN...but it was NOT so

Paul at his EVERY ONE of his trials had NO WITNESS speak on his teaching that the customs were changed or going to be changed...NO EPISTLE he wrote was presented that showed the customs were changed or were going to be changed...but instead as that heretical sect known as “the WAY” he claimed he worshipped the God of his fathers...and was still zealous for the STILL EXISTING LAWS as myriads of other believing jews were

You are making assumptions not backed by evidence. The Gentiles were told only to be kept from certain things. No mention of Sabbaths, yet they did find it necessary to mention to keep clean from fornication and things in blood. You're asking me to believe that all the Gentiles were "keeping Sabbaths" already but needed special mention against sexual immorality and blood? Sorry, that doesn't wash. It doesn't match with the real world and it isn't backed by scripture.

Gentiles had no idea what sexual immorality was according to Moses...pre marital? Homo? Multiple wives? Minors? They were civilized but had great license to worship at the temples their priestesses etc...

And yes special instruction to the food brought for Sabbath potlucks after the preaching and reading of Moses was finished...

So don’t strangle your lamb or any other clean meat...or bring it prepared RARE...believing goyim STILL do that...again

Oh and no meat after offered to image/idols...even if it was clean...

These were clarified BECAUSE goyim were civilized and respectful guests and NOT wishing to offend their HOSTS....

You think a goy would come in with a pork chop “But but but Shlomo...it wasn’t offered to an image!!” LOL

9) "Worshiping new ways on new days would be a distinction yes?" No, not especially. Worshiping Christ was a distinction enough; the entire Christian religion was a distinction.

lol...bet the early martyrs would disagree with you persecuted because the early christian “the Way” was considered a superstitious jewish sect...

Although I think you do not understand what Christ meant in John 4:23, "But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him." Days and places don't matter; worship in spirit and truth matters.

yes truth is biblical year doesnt start in mid winter...or on first day of the week while chomping on unclean meat...celebrate the festival with new unleavened bread of spirit and truth instructs Paul 1 Cor 5:8...did he mean the festival of Christmas? Or Halloween...sorry hallow’s eve

10) MAD is confused enough, leave the straw man out of it.

NO...that no brained scare crow is scarier than ever and is a DIRECT result of this jewish FALSE WITNESS that Yahushua changed the Law...

And it will be this works of HAY upon the foundation which will be burnt...1 Cor 3:12-13

Don’t believe jewish fables Titus 1:14 Satan wants to divide Yah’s house so it can not stand...divide it with NOT ONE LAW for native or goyim alike...but you know different laws for different folks or none or none applied or all destroyed or something about muh grace only...

11) You don't seem to understand what the sabbath means, so I'll lay down the relevant scripture here:

Exodus 31:12-17 KJV
(12) And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
(13) Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
(14) Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
(15) Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
(16) Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
(17) It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

clever choice of rendering as it avoids what Ex 20:10 makes clear it is FOR EVERYONE even strangers...included in the “whosoever defileth or doeth”...from Ex 31

So questions remains...are you His people or not?

You are not the "children of Israel"

so you MAD bro? Should be...LOL

and that "perpetual covenant" has been broken.

yes they killed the original Signer thus a new One is needed...

There is a new covenant that has been made and it does not use sabbaths as a sign that we are sanctified by the LORD.

Yup written by Him who started His ministry on a Sabbath...and was risen from the tomb on one to start the New Covenant Age...He had just signed and sealed...without changes...yup first full day of the New Covenant Age was a Sabbath...just like the first full day for Adam and Ever was a Sabbath in the Edenic covenant...

Neat eh?

Do you know what the sign is that we are given now?

Spoiler

John 13:34-35 KJV
(34) A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
(35) By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

Hint: it's not sabbaths, or special days, or special meats, or blue fringes around our garments.

Right because AS I LOVED YOU is NOT contained in the covenant He wrote and sealed before He was killed

Somewhere somehow sometime Yahushua...while still alive served Sunday Ham after worship hour and before the football games...

Love one another is like the pagans yes? Love like the Buddhists or muslims? Or is the love we love more distinct more unique...you know AS HE LOVED US?

So WWJD? Do that...and only that...

11) YES, "the New Testament counters prior law." Not so much counters, rather the former laws are null and void, not applicable outside of their covenant. This is basic application of law, all law. Laws only apply in their jurisdiction, and only for the parties that they name.

so Paul lied when he said we establish Law...you know the Law NOT made null and void by faith?

I mean Peter said Paul was hard for ignorant and unstable minds...but to claim he LIED when he said Law was NOT made void...and then believe instead the JEWISH LIE that Yahushua changed the customs...

OUCH on both counts...ignorant and unstable it is

If you do not understand why Christians say that we should not murder or worship other gods, now is the time to ask. It isn't because of any of the TEN COMMANDMENTS. You should ask, because it doesn't seem you understand this.

oh I dont need to ask because it’s listed in the 4 things required of goyim...oh wait is it?

Or how about the list He listed we do?

Can I worship the same God with false worship?

12) Are you seriously alleging that "pork" makes the heart and mind unclean against God? Or only if it is roasted? Or willingly eating that which God gave to Noah of "every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you, even as the green herb have I given you all things?"

again your uncircumcised heart rebellious hatred of Him His ways is revealed again...if it was required of believing goyim crowding synagogues every Sabbath to hear Moses preached and read...I think it applies to any who are grafted into Israel sovereign citizen...His people obedient to His ways...

No small sacrifice to eating just clean meats...I mean considering what we are saved from right? Noah’s flood version 2.0...oh and the reality that it won’t be Noah’s diet in the New World prepared for His people...more like Daniel’s...best get used to that I imagine...

13) The Gentiles were represented by those items in the dream, but they would not have been represented by those food items if they were abstaining from those "unclean" meats. God instructed Peter that the Gentiles that were represented by those unclean animals were now clean. God did not give instructions to the Gentiles to "become clean" by abstaining from meats or keeping sabbaths.

Peter never said anything about bacon...mmmmm...bacon

Again Yah made NO DISTINCTION as to who received the Holy Spirit as Peter made clear those that OBEYED were given the Holy Spirit...so logic would deem that those that received the Holy Spirit could be goyim or jews that OBEYED

So happily the goyim OBEYED...kinda makes sense a willful unrepentant sinner would NOT receive it...we are just making DISTINCTION as to what each believed...

14) It is only because of your fallacious reasoning that "no difference" isn't sinking in with you. The Jew (of Jewish blood) was not to keep those sabbaths or the old covenants either. The Gentiles weren't being called upon to change their customs to that which was Jewish.

Rather, both Gentiles and Jews were being called to change their customs to that which was in Christ.

Riiiiiight...and again what was IN CHRIST was demonstrated WHILE HE LIVED then SEALED the NEW COVENANT

Oh and yet again it was non believing jews that claimed those customs found IN CHRIST were different than the ones Moses gave...Luke was clear those slandering jews were FALSE in that WITNESS

15) God says that the Sabbath was made for a sign of the covenant of Israel. Christ's statement that "the sabbath was made for man" is to be understood in that context, and further that it is meant in contrast to "not man made for the sabbath." You seem to not understand this meaning. If man was made for the Sabbath, then the Sabbath is more important than man.

IF the Sabbath was made for Israel you are still in a pickle (and NON KOSHER ha ha) as it remains ONE LAW for native and goyim alike...but HAPPILY Sabbath was made for man...yes yes surprised you haven’t argued it was NOT dispensed to woman...LOL

But it's not. The sabbaths are gone.

Tell that to Isaiah Is 66:23

And repeat it to the Hebrews Heb 4:9

Or John the revelator...Rev 12:17 or Rev 14:12

“Here are they that keep the commandments (all 10 BTW) of Yah and have the faith/testimony OF Yahushua”

So is His faith/testimony Buddhist? Or Muslim? Or pagan?

Or how He taught and lived...Keeping what is taught form moses seat...you know His Father’s will

The priests are gone.

we are the new ministers of a new covenant to establish a law not made void by faith but representing Him His Way

The temple is gone.

we are his temple...but yes NO THIRD TEMPLE BY SCARE CROW HANDS

The sacrifices are gone.

really? From our lives and lips? Mercy rather than sacrifice was ALWAYS PLAN A anyway...

But God kept man.

The obedient ones...WHOSOEVER believes will remember what is Holy and HIS and want to do anything to be where “I AM”

 

[Rosenritter]

I said
That is true. Its now ok if you do keep the Sabbath but its also ok if you dont. Its a choice not a law.

Romans 14:5-6 KJV
(5) One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
(6) He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

 

[clefty]

The early Christians should have seen this coming. They were actually givin many warnings about the bad guys and what they would do. The warnings are all around the new testament.

1 PETER 5 [8] Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a ROARING LION, walketh about, SEEKING WHOM HE MAY DEVOUR:

ROARING LIONS! The bad guys

MATT.7 [14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.[15] Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are RAVENING WOLVES.

FALSE PROPHETS! They are RAVENING WOLVES. “The many” will follow these false prophets and but a few will take the way of life.

ACTS 20 [29] For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous WOLVES ENTER IN among you, not sparing the flock.[30] Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, TO DRAW AWAY DISCIPLES after them.

The GRIEVOUS WOLVES been hangin round from the beginning

EPH.4 [17] This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth WALK NOT AS OTHER GENTILES walk, in the VANITY of their mind,[18] Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:[19] Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all UNCLEANNESS with GREEDINESS.

All these warnings from the new testament are found in one scripture. “Day of the Lord” scriptures are not about ancient Israel. That day has not yet come. Day of the Lord scriptures do apply to christians (those who believe that Jesus came) and these scriptures will come to pass. To see what these ROARING LIONS and RAVENOUS WOLVES have done, simply read and believe the Word.

EZEK.22 [23] And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,[24] Son of man, say unto her, Thou art the land that is not cleansed, nor rained upon in the day of indignation.[25] There is A CONSPIRACY OF HER PROPHETS in the midst thereof, like a ROARING LION ravening the prey; THEY HAVE DEVOURED SOULS; they have taken the treasure and precious things; they have made her many widows in the midst thereof.[26] HER PRIESTS HAVE VIOLATED MY LAW, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the UNCLEAN AND THE CLEAN, and HAVE HID THEIR EYES FROM MY SABBATHS, and I am profaned among them.[27] Her princes in the midst thereof are like WOLVES RAVENING THE PREY, to shed blood, and to destroy souls, to get DISHONEST GAIN.[28] And her prophets have daubed them with untempered morter, SEEING VANITY, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord GOD, when the LORD hath not spoken

Lions and wolves and false prophets...oh my! A conspiracy of the prophets. HID THEIR EYES FROM MY SABBATHS! They meant to do it and they sure did pull it off despite the warnings. Up until the printing press, bibles were pretty scarce but even if someone discovered the Ezek.22 scripture Im sure the powers that be would have silenced that someone. Short of going before the wizard Rosenritter....How did these bad guys pull this off? No stawman jokes please.

The conspiracy was found in Judah Jeremiah 11:9 which caused Joseph to be sold Judah did...(he repented) and national Israel to be destroyed for its Idolatry...and now this conspiracy wishes to kill His People israel again...Luke is clear that it was JEWISH FALSE WITNESS that claimed what is claimed by all of christendom now...that Yahushua destroyed the temple and changed the customs which Moses delivered. Act 6:14

Paul at every trial did NOT have any jewish witness that proved he taught the Law was changed...NO EPISTLE was produced claiming the Law was destroyed or nailed to the cross...

He was preserved to go to rome as a roman citizen...but the jews would happily have killed him sooner despite their witness being FALSE.

A sabbatismos remains for His People...Heb 4:9

Happy Sabbath BTW...healing others of their blindness and spreading the good news gospel is no WORK at all...

Be rested and refreshed as He was...

 

[Rosenritter]

Well lets look at this together

LEVITICUS 24 [8] EVERY SABBATH he shall set it in order before the LORD continually, being taken from the children of Israel by an EVERLASTING COVENANT.

What do you think?

ISAIAH 24 [3] The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken this word. [4] THE EARTH MOURNETH AND FADETH AWAY, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish. [5] The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, BROKEN THE EVERLASTING COVENANT.

This is a day of the Lord scripture. It has not yet come to pass. It surely will. Is the everlasting covenant the same one found in Lev.24? What do you think?

PS- Day of the Lord scriptures are not only for Israel.

I will answer your question, but would you please define the word "covenant" for us? It would greatly help this discussion. Most arguments rage on because of a lack of agreement on a basic definition.

1. What do I think? about what specifically?

2. What do I think? Is the everlasting covenant of Isaiah 24:5 the same as in Leviticus 24? I think that Isaiah 24 is speaking of a future day of the Lord (I agree in this aspect) but it is not the same covenant as in Leviticus 24. This is shown because the subject of Isaiah 24 is "the inhabitants of the earth" therefore it must be in regards to a covenant made with "the inhabitants of the earth."

Leviticus 24 is made with "the children of Israel" rather than "the inhabitants of the earth." If God was executing judgment for the violation of a covenant, it would be with the people that he made that covenant with. It wouldn't make sense to punish people for breaking a covenant that they were never a party to. It would be like the courts throwing you in jail and seizing your home because someone unrelated to you robbed a bank.

 

[Rosenritter]

The early Christians should have seen this coming. They were actually givin many warnings about the bad guys and what they would do. The warnings are all around the new testament.

1 PETER 5 [8] Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a ROARING LION, walketh about, SEEKING WHOM HE MAY DEVOUR:

ROARING LIONS! The bad guys

MATT.7 [14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.[15] Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are RAVENING WOLVES.

FALSE PROPHETS! They are RAVENING WOLVES. “The many” will follow these false prophets and but a few will take the way of life.

ACTS 20 [29] For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous WOLVES ENTER IN among you, not sparing the flock.[30] Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, TO DRAW AWAY DISCIPLES after them.

The GRIEVOUS WOLVES been hangin round from the beginning

EPH.4 [17] This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth WALK NOT AS OTHER GENTILES walk, in the VANITY of their mind,[18] Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:[19] Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all UNCLEANNESS with GREEDINESS.

All these warnings from the new testament are found in one scripture. “Day of the Lord” scriptures are not about ancient Israel. That day has not yet come. Day of the Lord scriptures do apply to christians (those who believe that Jesus came) and these scriptures will come to pass. To see what these ROARING LIONS and RAVENOUS WOLVES have done, simply read and believe the Word.

EZEK.22 [23] And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,[24] Son of man, say unto her, Thou art the land that is not cleansed, nor rained upon in the day of indignation.[25] There is A CONSPIRACY OF HER PROPHETS in the midst thereof, like a ROARING LION ravening the prey; THEY HAVE DEVOURED SOULS; they have taken the treasure and precious things; they have made her many widows in the midst thereof.[26] HER PRIESTS HAVE VIOLATED MY LAW, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the UNCLEAN AND THE CLEAN, and HAVE HID THEIR EYES FROM MY SABBATHS, and I am profaned among them.[27] Her princes in the midst thereof are like WOLVES RAVENING THE PREY, to shed blood, and to destroy souls, to get DISHONEST GAIN.[28] And her prophets have daubed them with untempered morter, SEEING VANITY, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord GOD, when the LORD hath not spoken

Lions and wolves and false prophets...oh my! A conspiracy of the prophets. HID THEIR EYES FROM MY SABBATHS! They meant to do it and they sure did pull it off despite the warnings. Up until the printing press, bibles were pretty scarce but even if someone discovered the Ezek.22 scripture Im sure the powers that be would have silenced that someone. Short of going before the wizard Rosenritter....How did these bad guys pull this off? No stawman jokes please.

It's difficult to take this seriously.

On the serious side, how about looking up the definition for "covenant?"

 

[clefty]

Romans 14:5-6 KJV
(5) One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
(6) He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

The disobedient havent learned that adding to the Word is not allowed...Eve did and look what happened...deceived herself

Romans 14 has NOTHING to do with Sabbath as Sabbath was NOT a doubtful thing...Rom 14:1

The whole chapter is about food diet fasting...Jews fasted M or W some T or TH and well kvetching started...

See because Paul would then be LYING when he elsewhere wrote we establish law or the Law was not made null or void by Faith...CERTAINLY NOT

You just want jewish FALSE WITNESS to be true...that Yahushua DID change the customs Moses delivered...

Sorry THAT WAS FALSE WITNESS...

But keep revealing your rebellion of an uncircumcised heart...

 

[Rosenritter]

The disobedient havent learned that adding to the Word is not allowed...Eve did and look what happened...deceived herself

Romans 14 has NOTHING to do with Sabbath as Sabbath was NOT a doubtful thing...Rom 14:1

The whole chapter is about food diet fasting...Jews fasted M or W some T or TH and well kvetching started...

See because Paul would then be LYING when he elsewhere wrote we establish law or the Law was not made null or void by Faith...CERTAINLY NOT

You just want jewish FALSE WITNESS to be true...that Yahushua DID change the customs Moses delivered...

Sorry THAT WAS FALSE WITNESS...

But keep revealing your rebellion of an uncircumcised heart...

If "the whole thing is about food fasting" then why is there no mention of fasting? And if sabbaths were not a doubtful thing then why does Paul speak elsewhere saying that we should not be judged with regards to holy days or sabbaths?

Colossians 2:16 KJV
(16) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

You're doing the exact opposite, you ARE judging with respect to sabbaths.

 

[Squeaky]

Romans 14:5-6 KJV
(5) One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
(6) He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

I said
fully persuaded in his own mind.

 

[Squeaky]

The conspiracy was found in Judah Jeremiah 11:9 which caused Joseph to be sold Judah did...(he repented) and national Israel to be destroyed for its Idolatry...and now this conspiracy wishes to kill His People israel again...Luke is clear that it was JEWISH FALSE WITNESS that claimed what is claimed by all of christendom now...that Yahushua destroyed the temple and changed the customs which Moses delivered. Act 6:14

Paul at every trial did NOT have any jewish witness that proved he taught the Law was changed...NO EPISTLE was produced claiming the Law was destroyed or nailed to the cross...

He was preserved to go to rome as a roman citizen...but the jews would happily have killed him sooner despite their witness being FALSE.

A sabbatismos remains for His People...Heb 4:9

Happy Sabbath BTW...healing others of their blindness and spreading the good news gospel is no WORK at all...

Be rested and refreshed as He was...

I said
lol You must be a Jewish woman.

 

[Squeaky]

The disobedient havent learned that adding to the Word is not allowed...Eve did and look what happened...deceived herself

Romans 14 has NOTHING to do with Sabbath as Sabbath was NOT a doubtful thing...Rom 14:1

The whole chapter is about food diet fasting...Jews fasted M or W some T or TH and well kvetching started...

See because Paul would then be LYING when he elsewhere wrote we establish law or the Law was not made null or void by Faith...CERTAINLY NOT

You just want jewish FALSE WITNESS to be true...that Yahushua DID change the customs Moses delivered...

Sorry THAT WAS FALSE WITNESS...

But keep revealing your rebellion of an uncircumcised heart...

I said
lol And you are look what is happening to you. Your sort of going off the deep end.

[Jhn 10:1, 8
[1] "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. ...
[8] "All who [ever] came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.

 

[clefty]

If "the whole thing is about food fasting" then why is there no mention of fasting?

“Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not...and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth...He that eateth eateth to the Lord...and he that eateth not to the Lord he eateth not” Did you know some fasts can be done by not eating only certain foods...or just juice etc...yup all there in chapter 14

Google it...google Romans 14 NOT about Sabbath...tired of doing your berrean work for you...

And if sabbaths were not a doubtful thing then why does Paul speak elsewhere saying that we should not be judged with regards to holy days or sabbaths?

THEY WERE KEEPING THEM...because they are NOT doubtful things don’t let anyone judge you for doing it...duh...

I already linked you a better translation that it’s better understood as “Let no one judge you...(the keeping of these shadows) but the BODY OF CHRIST”...the irony...the BODY OF CHRIST judges the motive and manner of keeping these shadows where ARE pointing to better thins to come...

Colossians 2:16 KJV
(16) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

right...

Why would non believing jews care if believing goyim DID NOT keep the shadows which ARE pointing to better things...

Why would believing jews care if believing goyim DID NOT keep the shadows which ARE pointing to better things if they no longer were?

Non believing jews would ONLY care if goyim WERE KEEPING the shadows which are pointing to better things...is WHY Paul told the Colossians “FORGET ABOUT IT”...the non believing jews judging NOT the Sabbath worry about that...

Because believing jews WOULD care the manner and intent of believing goyim KEEPING the shadows which ARE pointing to better things...

Oh and finally non believing goyim would not care if the believing goyim DID NOT keep the shadows which ARE pointing to better things...

AND non believing goyim WOULD care if suddenly their countrymen began keeping “jewish stuff”...Paul’s counsel again is “FORGETABOUTIT” the judgement of fellow kinsman NOT the Sabbath...remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy...DUH

You're doing the exact opposite., you ARE judging with respect to sabbaths.

yup...because I am part of the BODY OF CHRIST...there judge the keeping of the Sabbaths...manner and intent

As Heb 4:9 makes clear a sabbatismos remains for His people...poor author of Hebrews had to invent a word the Greeks didnt even have...Greeks have their own word for Saturday but something special about seventh day Sabbath keeping had to be laid out...so well a Hebrew word was grafted into the greek...

Because the jewish FALSE WITNESS that Yahushua changed the customs delivered by Moses was well...FALSE

SO that means that Yahushua did NOT change the customs delivered by Moses...

IS WHY Paul wrote they ARE shadows pointing to better things to come...and NOT they “WERE”...

 

[Squeaky]

“Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not...and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth...He that eateth eateth to the Lord...and he that eateth not to the Lord he eateth not” Did you know some fasts can be done by not eating only certain foods...or just juice etc...yup all there in chapter 14

Google it...google Romans 14 NOT about Sabbath...tired of doing your berrean work for you...

THEY WERE KEEPING THEM...because they are NOT doubtful things don’t let anyone judge you for doing it...duh...

I already linked you a better translation that it’s better understood as “Let no one judge you...(the keeping of these shadows) but the BODY OF CHRIST”...the irony...the BODY OF CHRIST judges the motive and manner of keeping these shadows where ARE pointing to better thins to come...

right...

Why would non believing jews care if believing goyim DID NOT keep the shadows which ARE pointing to better things...

Why would believing jews care if believing goyim DID NOT keep the shadows which ARE pointing to better things if they no longer were?

Non believing jews would ONLY care if goyim WERE KEEPING the shadows which are pointing to better things...is WHY Paul told the Colossians “FORGET ABOUT IT”...the non believing jews judging NOT the Sabbath worry about that...

Because believing jews WOULD care the manner and intent of believing goyim KEEPING the shadows which ARE pointing to better things...

Oh and finally non believing goyim would not care if the believing goyim DID NOT keep the shadows which ARE pointing to better things...

AND non believing goyim WOULD care if suddenly their countrymen began keeping “jewish stuff”...Paul’s counsel again is “FORGETABOUTIT” the judgement of fellow kinsman NOT the Sabbath...remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy...DUH


yup...because I am part of the BODY OF CHRIST...there judge the keeping of the Sabbaths...manner and intent

As Heb 4:9 makes clear a sabbatismos remains for His people...poor author of Hebrews had to invent a word the Greeks didnt even have...Greeks have their own word for Saturday but something special about seventh day Sabbath keeping had to be laid out...so well a Hebrew word was grafted into the greek...

Because the jewish FALSE WITNESS that Yahushua changed the customs delivered by Moses was well...FALSE

SO that means that Yahushua did NOT change the customs delivered by Moses...

IS WHY Paul wrote they ARE shadows pointing to better things to come...and NOT they “WERE”...

I said
lolol Maybe one day you will look in the bible to see if anything say is in there. I know none if it is in the new testament.

 

[clefty]

I said
fully persuaded in his own mind.

If you can insert something that is not in the scripture
you have a milkshake mind...nothing substantive up there...

Sabbath was remembered by Israel at Sinai with a HUUUUUGE production of power display of GLORY and POWER...

In fact Sabbath was instituted BEFORE THE REVELATION OF THE LAW...imagine that...

Sabbath in EDEN was established BEFORE THE FALL BEFORE SIN and then again at Sinai before the LAW was revealed...

Exodus 16:21-23

NOW here’s an interesting question Squeaky...WHY? Why was Sabbath revealed before the Sinai EXTRAVAGANZA?

“That I may test them, whether they will walk in My law or not” Exodus 16:4

But now you want us to ignore that it was jewish FALSE WITNESS that said the customs Moses delivered were changed by Yahushua and accept your theory that as long as you think its ok choose any day to worship “do what thou whilst”

And despite going against Yah’s tradition of thousands of years...this allowance was WITHOUT A PEEP from the Author of the New Covenant or any of His disciples...

In fact the rest of Christendom accepts that the change to Sunday happened OUTSIDE of Scripture long after the last apostle’s letters were post marked...and these changed times and laws were by MAN and his TRADITION as a display of power that he claimed AUTHORITY to change both times and laws...

But Squeaky and a few others here think that Romans 14 a chapter about fasting and food convinces them any day is fine or no day at all...

 

[clefty]

I said
lol You must be a Jewish woman.

Reduced to this...weak ad homs...