SABBATH KEEPING

[clefty]

Yes it is. The synoptic problem is that the same events are sometimes retold differently in different texts, meaning that there are errors. AFAIK the most profound case is between Acts 22 and Acts 26, which differ on where Paul was supposedly told what his role was. In Acts 22 Paul only says that he was told to go to Damascus for instructions, but in Acts 26 he tells a different story.

Ok so...

Road to Damascus is 34 AD his moment before the Sanhedrin 57 AD and then Agrippa 59 AD but you really do expect audio tape verbatim?

Might it be that in Acts 9 at the actual event “go into the city” is easily understood as he was on the road to Damascus...and yet 23 years later and in Jerusalem Paul recalls he was told to ”arise and go into Damascus”...hmmm...did HE LIE?

Or maybe in front of a “home crowd” full of Jews from all over Paul knew to add “Damascus” to what was instructed to him as “go into the city” could be anywhere...

please recall these are JEWS he was speaking Hebrew to in order to calm them down...Jews that know the news and gossip and tell and retell the stories and some from Asia possibly even know Ananias who undoubtedly told of his vision and information regarding the killer of saints from Jerusalem...

Paul of course knowing the stories and gossip and rumors about him and the accusations and charges against him (even having had to take a vow to prove he walked orderly and kept the law) and now looking around he decides to reveal more from chapter 9 about which Ananias (who was now ceased Sabbath keeping and was eating cat rats bats and wombats... oh wait NO he was STILL a devout man according to the Law with good testimony with all the Jews that dwelt there...even the non believing in His resurrection ones)...instructed Paul including he was to be baptized a washing away of sins which is NOT mentioned in Acts 9...

but for you this a problem?

Paul then neglects to mention his water baptism to Agrippa TWO years later...Acts 26...can you recall what you said on the stand TWO years later?

Does this make it another gospel another christ?

But what is the consistent thread throughout? He was spoken to by Yahushua went to Damascus...and then to ALL men...gentiles too...not bad for 23 years after the fact...now add to that that the book of Acts itself was NOT written by Paul but a “witness”...and how much later?

But to be sure in Acts 9, 22, or 26 there is nothing about “no more Sabbath...eat cat rats bats and wombats”...devout Ananias might be ok with laying hands on a repentant killer...but not a blasphemer teaching the false witness the Yahushua changed the customs which Moses delivered to them. Imagine THAT scandal...

So the Quran verbatim in its cross referencing? No no not its referencing of the cross...lol

How about other historical texts...are they verbatim?

So yes when was Acts written? Some say as early as 62 AD 3-5 years after trials and others say only attributed to Luke deep into the 2nd century...

Some scholars find Luke accurate enough...you of course don’t...

because...and to what consequences?

 

[Hilltrot]

clefty Huckleberry

Just FYI, you're posts are getting to be pretty long. If at all possible, would you mind condensing your posts a bit? There is a 6-paragraph limit for posts on TOL. You're posts are at about 5 paragraphs or so.

Thanks

Shouldn't there just be a character limit?

 

[clefty]

Shouldn't there just be a character limit?

There’s plenty of limited characters around here...

Welcome to TOL

 

[KerimF]

I guess a day (Sabbath or else) is 24 hours long; some hours during daylight and the rest are night time.
On Arctic Ocean, many days has no night time in summer and no daylight (no sunrise) in winter. This is reversed on the Southern Ocean.
We conclude that God couldn't be on Arctic Ocean or Southern Ocean during summer or winter season when He got tired and rested on the seventh day.

I mean God's tales on the OT were not addressed to humans in these days, but to our primitive ancestors who couldn't grasp some crucial truths (about Creation, for example) if not provided to them as tales first. This is exactly how we let our little kids understand life by tales first. Will our children call us liars when adult?

 

[clefty]

Huckleberry


Hey Huckleberry you good?

 

[Theo102]

Once again... Paul did not "learn his role" in a singular event.

The point that you are avoiding is that Paul contradicts himself as to whether this occurred on the road to Damascus or not (Acts 22 vs Acts 26). The context of this point is Paul's dishonesty and his vanity.

 

[Theo102]

did HE LIE?

The contradiction between Acts 22 and Acts 26 is clear: Paul can't be told everything about his mission later if he is told that he will minister and a witness at the time that he heard the voice on the road to Damascus. His motive was apparently to increase his status from a chosen vessel to a minister of a doctrine of faith.

The context is of the consequences of Paul's test in the temple which resulted in a riot. Paul lied to the Sanhedrin about the reason that he was brought before them, so the lie to Agrippa is part of a larger pattern of deceit relating to his test in the temple.

 

[clefty]

The contradiction between Acts 22 and Acts 26 is clear: Paul can't be told everything about his mission later if he is told that he will minister and a witness at the time that he heard the voice on the road to Damascus. His motive was apparently to increase his status from a chosen vessel to a minister of a doctrine of faith.

ok so you have something against Paul...and cant forgive his home field advantage in chapter 22 amongst those that “know the story” vs. in front of Agrippa who doesn’t even know him...2 years later?

The context is of the consequences of Paul's test in the temple which resulted in a riot.

Luke was clear the riot was because they supposed something Paul did...

Paul lied to the Sanhedrin about the reason that he was brought before them,

now what? Paul was clear it was concerning the hope of the resurrection which even Pharisees agreed with him finding NO EVIL in him...Acts 23:9 so what false witness do you stir up?

so the lie to Agrippa is part of a larger pattern of deceit relating to his test in the temple.

what lie? His conversion story or reason for riot or standing in trial?

Oh and feel free to elaborate your argument or issue as it has been almost a month since you respond to this...and well been busy with others who hate on Paul and misuse him and abuse him as Peter warned they would...

 

[Right Divider]

The point that you are avoiding is that Paul contradicts himself as to whether this occurred on the road to Damascus or not (Acts 22 vs Acts 26). The context of this point is Paul's dishonesty and his vanity.

No, he did not. You're confused. :dizzy:

Otherwise you would actually SHOW this "contradiction".

Act 22:6 KJV And it came to pass, that, as I made my journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus about noon, suddenly there shone from heaven a great light round about me.

Act 26:12 KJV Whereupon as I went to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests,

There is NO contradiction there.

 

[Theo102]

ok so you have something against Paul...and cant forgive his home field advantage in chapter 22 amongst those that “know the story” vs. in front of Agrippa who doesn’t even know him...2 years later?

It's about Paul's dishonesty, not any home field advantage. Either he was told everything later (Acts 22) or he was told about being a minister and witness at the time (Acts 26). Both accounts cannot be true.

 

[Theo102]

No, he did not. You're confused. :dizzy:

Otherwise you would actually SHOW this "contradiction".



There is NO contradiction there.

Like I said, you can't address the point, so you simply deny that it exists without addressing the evidence. He can't be told all things in Damascus if he is told that he will be made a minister and a witness before he gets to Damascus.


Acts 22
10 And I said, What shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do.

Acts 26
15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.
16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
17 Delivering thee from the people, and [from] the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
18 To open their eyes, [and] to turn [them] from darkness to light, and [from] the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

 

[clefty]

It's about Paul's dishonesty, not any home field advantage. Either he was told everything later (Acts 22) or he was told about being a minister and witness at the time (Acts 26). Both accounts cannot be true.

Maybe Luke is lying?

Again to paraphrase an old 1980’s Wendy ad “Where’s your beef?”

Peter embellished his vision story by including further understanding later Acts 11:16 which Luke “failed” to narrate in chapter 10?

Did Peter lie? Did Luke?

Is that worse than what is taught for centuries that “When they heard these things they became silent: and they glorified Yah saying; “Then Yah has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life” Jews the eating of swine.”? Acts 11:18

I mean textual criticism is necessary but do we throw out everything because:

• Two demon-possessed men (Matt. 8:28) vs. one (Mk. 5:2)
• Two blind men (Matt. 20:30) vs. one (Mk. 10:46)
• Two angels at the tomb (Lk. 24:4) vs. one (Mk. 16:5)

So why you got something against Paul...maybe the WHOLE BIBLE THINGY but let’s start with Paul...

”Where’s your beef?”

 

[clefty]

Exodus 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

Israel alone was to keep the sabbath.

There is no commandment given to the church, the body of Christ to observe the sabbath.

The sabbath was a covenant. The covenants pertain only to Israel (Romans 9:4).

Ok so where are we on this?


Already Peter was preaching about welcoming devout Yah fearing gentiles doing works of righteousness from everywhere Acts 10:35:

Speaking to the council of Jerusalem deciding what to do with all these obedient gentiles crowding the synagogues every Sabbath Peter said:

"And Yah, who knows the heart, showed His approval by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as He did to us. 9He made no distinction between us and them, for He cleansed their hearts by faith. Act 15:8

So there is NO DISTINCTION between Jews and Gentiles as if they were JOINED or something...the middle wall of division removed...or da goyim were grafted into the Sabbath keeping trunk and root...

I mean even a blind pagan could make the distinction between Sabbath keeping group and another day keeping group...(add to that the smells of frying bacon...THAT would really be distinguishing a difference) but NO DISTINCTION was noted by Yah...

Interesting Peter claimed this at a council NOT convened to determine what believing in Yahushua Jews were to give UP or do away with

BUT Peter was speaking to the council of Jerusalem deciding what to do with all these obedient gentiles crowding the synagogues every Sabbath wanting to hear and DO more...


Peter even flips the council on its head and does NOT say how will the goyim be saved like US pious Jews....instead he says:

"But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.” Act 15:11

Makes sense...as it was BY FAITH even non Jews like Abel Enoch Noah and Abraham Moses and 11 of the 12 tribes were saved...IN THE BODY...

James concluded this council with the 4 things ALREADY expected of the goyim within their gates when THIS EKKLESIA was in the OT wilderness...you know as indicated in the ONLY commandment of 10 including them: the Sabbath commandment...THE IRONY

3 of which dealt with dietary restrictions including don't make clean meat unclean by offering it to idol or NOT draining it of blood or suffocating it (or picking up road kill from a chariot driving by)

I mean you don't really think not offering a swine to an idol makes it clean do you? or draining all the blood from a dog? or serving rat NOT killed in the road?

How did James conclude the matter "For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and IS READ in the synagogues on every Sabbath." Acts 15:21

Apparently the council expected these goyim to continue keeping the Sabbath...and they did...until decades and centuries later when some started getting MAD...

 

[God's Truth]

Exodus 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

Israel alone was to keep the sabbath.

There is no commandment given to the church, the body of Christ to observe the sabbath.

The sabbath was a covenant. The covenants pertain only to Israel (Romans 9:4).

The Sabbath law was a shadow of Jesus.

No one is commanded to observe the Sabbath anymore.

As for you saying only Jews have covenants with God, you are badly mistaken.

Paul is the minister to the new covenant and even had the Gentiles gathering for the Lord's Supper where Jesus speaks of the covenant.


2 Corinthians 3:6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant--not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

1 Corinthians 11:25 In the same way, after supper He took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

 

[clefty]

The Sabbath law was a shadow of Jesus.

nope Peter warned of you with unstable minds twisting Paul’s writings...Paul makes clear the sabbaths ARE a shadow pointing out good things to come...

Stop causing weaker ones to stumble...you wolf returning to your own vomit

No one is commanded to observe the Sabbath anymore.

Yahushua instructed prayers that the Sabbath be kept in the future Matt 24:20 James concluded the Acts 15 council expecting Moses to be heard every Sabbath Acts 15:21

Peter made CLEAR that there is NO DISTINCTION between Jew and Gentile as BOTH OBEY THE SAME after faith circumcised their hearts...Acts 15:9

As for you saying only Jews have covenants with God, you are badly mistaken.

as mistaken as you claiming a NEW upgraded Son’s edited version 2.0 Law was placed into hearts and mind and NOT “My Law”...as it was already in THIS ekklesia in the OT wilderness...

Paul is the minister to the new covenant

teaching we are to establish it Romans 3:31

and even had the Gentiles gathering for the Lord's Supper where Jesus speaks of the covenant.

yes the night BEFORE He signed the New Covenant with His blood and Sealed it with His death...and now NO changes after the death of the Testator...EVEN IN TEMPORAL CONTRACTS Gal 3:15 READ IT

So when was the New Covenant taught and demonstrated?...BEFORE He died...is why He said DO THAT

And the first full day of the New covenant age He RESTED in the tomb...and was refreshed RESURRECTED that Sabbath before the Sunday morning discovery of an empty tomb...

And for forty days...that is 5 FIVE weekends NOTHING NEW was noted...nothing...you have NOTHING to show “every day is Holy now...eat whatever”

If there was a time a centuries/millennium old tradition His WAY was abrogated this would have been the time to do it...instead you have NOTHING...

2 Corinthians 3:6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant--not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

the Law remains spiritual...Rom 7:14 Paul served the Law Romans 7:25

The Spirit leads us INTO keeping the Law...not away from it...Love AS HE DID...does fulfill the Law...as He fulfilled it and asked us to do likewise...is why if you claim you abide in Him? LIVE as He did...

1 Corinthians 11:25 In the same way, after supper He took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

Paul also instructed we celebrate the sabbath festival of unleavened bread with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth...1 Cor 5:8

You know copy me AS I copy Christ...even in the keeping of the Sabbath and of the sabbaths...neat eh?

Is why a sabbatismos a Sabbath keeping remains for His people Heb 4:9 so enter His rest cease from your works as He did...after six days...the first full day of MANKIND was a Sabbath day rest...

Is why Sabbath was made for MAN...not just Jews...

and given to Israel when this ekklesia was in the OT wilderness and already including those NOT of Jacob...

says so right in the Sabbath commandment at Sinai Ex 20:10 the ONLY commandment to do so...the irony...

 

[Right Divider]

No one is commanded to observe the Sabbath anymore.

Exo 31:15-17 KJV Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. (16) Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. (17) It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

 

[clefty]

Exo 31:15-17 KJV Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. (16) Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. (17) It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

Yup...and already THIS ekklesia in the OT wilderness included those NOT OF JACOB the strangers within thy gates...neat eh?

The only one of 10 to do so...the irony

One law for native and stranger alike...already back then...NO DISTINCTION as Peter confirmed Act 15:9

Already in the OT the Promise was to the stranger too...

Ezekiel 47:21You are to divide this land among yourselves according to the tribes of Israel. 22You shall allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the foreigners who dwellamong you and who have children. You are to treat them as native-born Israelites; along with you, they shall be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel. 23In whatever tribe a foreigner dwells, you are to assign his inheritance there, declares the Lord GOD.”…

Seems like when the Lord of the Sabbath claimed the Sabbath was made for MAN...He meant exactly not just for Jews...

or Israel...as Adam was neither...or tired and needing rest...or sinful needing a Law...the Law was added for transgression...

Adam received a day of rest...NOT WORKS...as he did NOTHING to earn that rest...he just accepted he was made in the image of His Creator...to do as He did...so too do we do works...His works...befitting repentance having been born and reborn...

SUCH GRACE!...just like we do nothing in our being born...or being reborn...Adam TOO did nothing to earn his creation or rest...works NEVER justify...but once saved there remains a lifestyle of faith... His faith lifestyle...and a rest as He ceased from His works after six days...



The Sabbath is but a sign...for His people Heb 4:9 Jew and Greek JOINED...like the word Sabbatismos...also neat eh?

as it was in Ex 20:10 when THIS ekklesia...this body of Christ Yahushua its Head was in the OT wilderness...

”I change NOT”

 

[God's Truth]

Exo 31:15-17 KJV Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. (16) Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. (17) It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

The children of Israel who didn't have faith were cut off and bound to the same place as the disobedient Gentiles.

The children of Israel, the true Israel who are faithful and obedient, they are resting in the Sabbath, which is Jesus Christ.

 

[Right Divider]

The children of Israel who didn't have faith were cut off and bound to the same place as the disobedient Gentiles.

The children of Israel, the true Israel who are faithful and obedient, they are resting in the Sabbath, which is Jesus Christ.

Continue to deny scripture all that you want.

 

[clefty]

The children of Israel who didn't have faith were cut off and bound to the same place as the disobedient Gentiles.

ok so what did the Gentiles need to obey? Hint: Peter claimed there was NO DISTINCTION between them and the Jews...you know like when you said Jews and Gentiles believe and obey the SAME WAY...you said it...

The children of Israel, the true Israel who are faithful and obedient, they are resting in the Sabbath, which is Jesus Christ.

Yahushua:

Water
The Way
The Word
True Vine
Truth
Wonderful Counselor
Prince of Peace
The Door
Resurrection and Life
Supreme Creator
Son of the Most High
Son of Man
Savior
Sacrifice for our sin
Rock
Risen Lord
Redeemer
Prophet
Peace
Our Hope
Mighty One
Messiah
Mediator
Lord of All
Lord of Sabbath
Lion of Judah
Light of the World
Lamb
Judge
Gift
Immanuel
Holy Servent
Head of Church
Great Hight Priest
Good Shephard
Deliverer
Chief Cornerstone
Bridegroom
Bread of Life
Author of our faith
Almighty One
Bronze Snake
Hen with her chicks

nope never a day of the week...

certainly not replacing the seventh day Sabbath