Ron Paul is pro-choice on abortion, state by state

[Christian Liberty]

I've never had a problem.

True, but it takes time, money, and a willingness to do it. People can still get back alley abortions too, but it requires more time, money, thought, and risk.

Even still, my end goal is not to ban abortion in just some states. I want every state to ban abortion. I get that that's not reality, much like many other things I support, but I wouldn't see that half the states banned abortion and then say "Oh, well I guess we don't have to fight anymore." This fight isn't over until every state passes an anti-abortion law, or... more likely, we lose... like we already have.

Not necessarily actively aggressive. Think "Cold War" for instance. Then there are embargoes and just plain refusals to do any business, of any sort, whatsoever, with any of them.

I say this because it would not always be practical to have active war, especially not with all of the countries currently allowing abortion.

To what extent would you impose that standard on US citizens?

I wouldn't make them allies just because they agreed on this one point, or any other. There is enough disagreement that they would still be enemies, but not necessarily ones with whom we would, or should, go to war.

Honestly, I don't see huge differences between your ideology and there's. Although you change the wording, you all but support a Christian theocracy. They support a Muslim theocracy.

Do you at least acknowledge that you'd be enemies with almost everybody, under these proposed policies? Seeing as virtually every Western country allows abortion (By your standards of being pro-life, almost EVERY Western country, but even if you qualify "Pro-life with exceptions" as being pro-life, most Western countries are still pro-choice) and then you've got the open tyrannies/theocracies in the East.

Under what conditions do you support actual war?

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Only can the Libertarian nutcase from Texas compare abortion to burglary.



Right around 3:10 the nutcase goes off on one of his "States Rights" rants.

Note how Santorum is looking at Paul with a "Is this guy for real?" look.

 

[Christian Liberty]

Only can the Libertarian nutcase from Texas compare abortion to burglary.



Right around 3:10 the nutcase goes off on one of his "States Rights" rants.

Note how Santorum is looking at Paul with a "Is this guy for real?" look.

He didn't, you idiot. He said abortion was a violent act, "like murder, burglary..." (He may have said something else, I stopped watching there, although I've seen the whole thing, and how Ron Paul makes Santorum look like an idiot, multiple times). He wasn't discussing the severity of it, his point is that the states punish violence, not the Feds.

This isn't that complicated for anyone with a brain. Which I understand makes it very complicated for you.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

He didn't, you idiot. He said abortion was a violent act, "like murder, burglary..." (He may have said something else, I stopped watching there, although I've seen the whole thing, and how Ron Paul makes Santorum look like an idiot, multiple times). He wasn't discussing the severity of it, his point is that the states punish violence, not the Feds.

This isn't that complicated for anyone with a brain. Which I understand makes it very complicated for you.

States punish violence, if they should decide that abortion is a violent act.

"At the same time, Ron Paul believes that the ninth and tenth amendments to the U.S. Constitution do not grant the federal government any authority to legalize or ban abortion. Instead, it is up to the individual states to prohibit abortion."
http://www.ronpaul.com/on-the-issues/abortion/

Murder is not a "States Rights issue" Jr. Stick with peddling dope and leave protecting the rights of the unborn to us Christians.

 

[Lighthouse]

True, but it takes time, money, and a willingness to do it. People can still get back alley abortions too, but it requires more time, money, thought, and risk.

Do you have any idea how far some of these women travel now? Some of them cross state lines when they don't even have to. Have you ever protested at a mill?

Even still, my end goal is not to ban abortion in just some states. I want every state to ban abortion. I get that that's not reality, much like many other things I support, but I wouldn't see that half the states banned abortion and then say "Oh, well I guess we don't have to fight anymore." This fight isn't over until every state passes an anti-abortion law, or... more likely, we lose... like we already have.

And if there is a federal law that bans all abortion?

To what extent would you impose that standard on US citizens?

I'm not sure what you're asking.

Honestly, I don't see huge differences between your ideology and there's. Although you change the wording, you all but support a Christian theocracy. They support a Muslim theocracy.

No, I support a theonomy.

Also, "theirs."

Do you at least acknowledge that you'd be enemies with almost everybody, under these proposed policies? Seeing as virtually every Western country allows abortion (By your standards of being pro-life, almost EVERY Western country, but even if you qualify "Pro-life with exceptions" as being pro-life, most Western countries are still pro-choice) and then you've got the open tyrannies/theocracies in the East.

I would be enemies with most.

Under what conditions do you support actual war?

It must be practical [feasible/doable] and absolutely necessary. If we can eliminate a threat without it then it is unnecessary.

The question then becomes, to whom are they a threat? If a threat to us then we must do something about it. If a threat to their own people then we can attempt to deal with that on a business level, as in doing none with them. But if that has no effect something must be done. The question then becomes are we the ones to do that? And if so, how? If active war is unnecessary then it should never come into play.

States punish violence, if they should decide that abortion is a violent act.

"At the same time, Ron Paul believes that the ninth and tenth amendments to the U.S. Constitution do not grant the federal government any authority to legalize or ban abortion. Instead, it is up to the individual states to prohibit abortion."
http://www.ronpaul.com/on-the-issues/abortion/

Murder is not a "States Rights issue" Jr. Stick with peddling dope and leave protecting the rights of the unborn to us Christians.

You believe that abortion should be legal in rape cases. You have no leg upon which to stand, and no integrity in this fight. So shut up.

 

[WizardofOz]

‎"Defining life as beginning at conception would define the unborn child as a life. Thereafter the taking of that life would be murder. Murder in our criminal code and constitutional history is punished by the laws of the individual states. The federal government does not dictate the terms of the state murder laws. Some have longer sentences. Some allow for parole, some do not. Some have the death penalty, some do not." - Ron Paul

‎"I believe the federal government has a role to play. I believe Roe v. Wade should be repealed. I believe federal law should declare that life begins at conception. And I believe states should regulate the enforcement of this law, as they do other laws against violence." - Ron Paul

Bump

 

[aCultureWarrior]

States punish violence, if they should decide that abortion is a violent act.

"At the same time, Ron Paul believes that the ninth and tenth amendments to the U.S. Constitution do not grant the federal government any authority to legalize or ban abortion. Instead, it is up to the individual states to prohibit abortion."
http://www.ronpaul.com/on-the-issues/abortion/

Murder is not a "States Rights issue" Jr. Stick with peddling dope and leave protecting the rights of the unborn to us Christians.

Originally Posted by WizardofOz
‎"Defining life as beginning at conception would define the unborn child as a life. Thereafter the taking of that life would be murder. Murder in our criminal code and constitutional history is punished by the laws of the individual states. The federal government does not dictate the terms of the state murder laws. Some have longer sentences. Some allow for parole, some do not. Some have the death penalty, some do not." - Ron Paul


‎"I believe the federal government has a role to play. I believe Roe v. Wade should be repealed. I believe federal law should declare that life begins at conception. And I believe states should regulate the enforcement of this law, as they do other laws against violence." - Ron Paul



Poor Daddy Paul, he just can't decide which side to appease: the pro lifers, or the "States Rights" dopers.

 

[Christian Liberty]

Do you have any idea how far some of these women travel now? Some of them cross state lines when they don't even have to.

OK, we're talking past each other. You're saying some women would cross state lines. Absolutely.

I'm saying some, maybe even a lot, would think twice rather than traveling several hours to go get an abortion.

If you really think that banning abortion FEDERALLY would actually lead to no abortion happening, I believe you are in error. I'm guessing you don't think that, but it seems like you do based on the arguments you're giving.

Ideally, I would support a human life amendment to the US constitution. Short of that, I support the state's right to decide. My reason for that is this, everyone has their pet issue that is just so important that you just have to have a Federal mandate. You're only going to agree with me on some of these but... for some people, its guns. Some people decided that automatic weapons were so evil/dangerous that they just had to be banned everywhere. Some people thought the same with drugs. Still others with Obamacare/health insurance. Still others, food quality, which is why we have the monster known as the FDA...

You know what? Honestly, I don't think the Federal Government can do anything "Correctly." If they banned abortion at the Federal Level, they would use it as a crusade to impose even more of an Orwellian State than we already have. I don't want the Federal Government getting involved in Law Enforcement. I'd much rather just let people like Scott Roeder go, as we continue to fight for state level laws.

I refuse to fall into the trap of "My issue is so important that we just have to have a Federal law without regard for the constitution."

Have you ever protested at a mill?

No, why?

And if there is a federal law that bans all abortion?

Good luck with that.

I'm not sure what you're asking.

Would you punish a civilian who did business in those countries or would it just be the government that would not be allowed to do business there?

No, I support a theonomy.

Also, "theirs."

I understand the subtle difference, but it is a subtle one.

I would be enemies with most.

Fair enough.

It must be practical [feasible/doable] and absolutely necessary. If we can eliminate a threat without it then it is unnecessary.

So... did you support the War in Iraq?

The question then becomes, to whom are they a threat? If a threat to us then we must do something about it. If a threat to their own people then we can attempt to deal with that on a business level, as in doing none with them. But if that has no effect something must be done. The question then becomes are we the ones to do that? And if so, how? If active war is unnecessary then it should never come into play.

Sanctions don't actually work, they just make things even worse for the people under their rule. Actual war makes things even worse than that.

I know you think about social policy way more than foreign policy, maybe you should look up what the Founders said about foreign policy?

You believe that abortion should be legal in rape cases. You have no leg upon which to stand, and no integrity in this fight. So shut up.

The irony of this never ceases to amaze me.

 

[Christian Liberty]

Originally Posted by WizardofOz
‎"Defining life as beginning at conception would define the unborn child as a life. Thereafter the taking of that life would be murder. Murder in our criminal code and constitutional history is punished by the laws of the individual states. The federal government does not dictate the terms of the state murder laws. Some have longer sentences. Some allow for parole, some do not. Some have the death penalty, some do not." - Ron Paul


‎"I believe the federal government has a role to play. I believe Roe v. Wade should be repealed. I believe federal law should declare that life begins at conception. And I believe states should regulate the enforcement of this law, as they do other laws against violence." - Ron Paul



Poor Daddy Paul, he just can't decide which side to appease: the pro lifers, or the "States Rights" dopers.

As Lighthouse pointed out, you're not even pro-life. Not to mention that your insults are some or the dumbest, most poorly thought out I have ever seen.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
Poor Daddy Paul, he just can't decide which side to appease: the pro lifers, or the "States Rights" dopers.

As Lighthouse pointed out, you're not even pro-life.

Now that you've acknoweldged that Daddy Paul is a typical God-hating Libertarian that plays both sides of the fence:

If Lighthouse would like to debate me on what he's done to prevent the murder of the unborn vs what I've done and am currently doing, he knows where to find me.

 

[Christian Liberty]

Now that you've acknoweldged that Daddy Paul is a typical God-hating Libertarian that plays both sides of the fence:

The only thing I "Admit" to is you being a Hell-bound demonic pervert...

 

[Delmar]

This kind of deliberate cheap shot against a good, decent man is classic Enyart.

Ron Paul says that each state should decide.
The Enyart position is that no government rightly has the standing to de-criminalize killing the innocent. How is that a cheap shot?

 

[Christian Liberty]

Ron Paul says that each state should decide.
The Enyart position is that no government rightly has the standing to de-criminalize killing the innocent. How is that a cheap shot?

I understand Enyart's philosophical point but I don't think he understands the US constitution... or the manner in which power, especially in the hands of highly centralized governments, corrupts.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

I understand Enyart's philosophical point but I don't think he understands the US constitution... or the manner in which power, especially in the hands of highly centralized governments, corrupts.

Since I read Loonatarian fluently, allow me to explain what Jr. just said.

Daddy Paul hates the federal government and doesn't trust it, (yet trusts that their check won't bounce when paying he and his staffs wages).
http://www.legistorm.com/member/413/Rep_Ron_Paul.html

The murder of the unborn on the other hand, is something that should be left up to the individual states to decide.

 

[Christian Liberty]

Since I read Loonatarian fluently, allow me to explain what Jr. just said.

Daddy Paul hates the federal government and doesn't trust it, (yet trusts that their check won't bounce when paying he and his staffs wages).
http://www.legistorm.com/member/413/Rep_Ron_Paul.html

The murder on the other hand, is something that should be left up to the individual states to decide.

Yeah, Ron supported a bill to reduce Rep. salaries to 39,000 dollars a year.

Yet, you're too busy trying to hate Ron Paul so you wouldn't bother to look that up.

I'm assuming Delmar made his comment in good faith, either to defend Enyart rather than to attack Ron Paul, or because he didn't completely understand why Ron Paul holds the position he does.

I know you know better. If you have a memory longer than thirty seconds, at any rate.

 

[WizardofOz]

Ron Paul says that each state should decide.

Quote him directly so we can see what he is saying.

The Enyart position is that no government rightly has the standing to de-criminalize killing the innocent. How is that a cheap shot?

‎"Defining life as beginning at conception would define the unborn child as a life. Thereafter the taking of that life would be murder. Murder in our criminal code and constitutional history is punished by the laws of the individual states. The federal government does not dictate the terms of the state murder laws. Some have longer sentences. Some allow for parole, some do not. Some have the death penalty, some do not." - Ron Paul ‎"I believe the federal government has a role to play. I believe Roe v. Wade should be repealed. I believe federal law should declare that life begins at conception. And I believe states should regulate the enforcement of this law, as they do other laws against violence." - Ron Paul

No states can keep abortion legal if life is federally defined as beginning at conception :nono:

They would simply choose how to enforce the law.

 

[WizardofOz]

If Lighthouse would like to debate me on what he's done to prevent the murder of the unborn vs what I've done and am currently doing, he knows where to find me.

We know what you do. You "encourage" people to keep their kids while advocating to keep choice legal.

 

[Granite]

Ron Paul says that each state should decide.
The Enyart position is that no government rightly has the standing to de-criminalize killing the innocent. How is that a cheap shot?

By calling Dr. Paul--a fellow Christian who's personally delivered thousands of births--"pro-choice," Enyart crosses a line and deliberately, knowingly lies about the man. That's low-rent, classless garbage.

 

[drbrumley]

Under the government I advocate I would certainly advocate declaring war of some sort on any nation wherein abortion is not criminalized.

Wow, speechless!

 

[Christian Liberty]

Wow, speechless!

And then he redefines war to make it less bad.


I guess this is the logical conclusion of LH and Bob Enyart's ideology. If you don't support one world government, you obviously support all of the evils those other countries do. That's the logical conclusion.