drbrumley
Well-known member
Exactly! Colorado should have fought back.
Ron Paul is pro-choice on abortion, state by state
- Thread starter Bob Enyart
- Start date
Exactly! Colorado should have fought back.
Vine&FigTree
Member
Janet Folger and Bob Enyart
Janet Folger and Bob Enyart
Here's a pretty good article by Janet Folger, "president of Faith2Action: turning people of faith into people of action to WIN the cultural war TOGETHER for life, liberty and the family. Author of "The Criminalization of Christianity," she hosts a daily radio program from 2-3 p.m. Eastern and a daily radio commentary heard in 100 markets and at www.f2a.org":
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59805
Her position seems to be identical to Bob Enyart's.
Comments:
Janet Folger and Bob Enyart
Here's a pretty good article by Janet Folger, "president of Faith2Action: turning people of faith into people of action to WIN the cultural war TOGETHER for life, liberty and the family. Author of "The Criminalization of Christianity," she hosts a daily radio program from 2-3 p.m. Eastern and a daily radio commentary heard in 100 markets and at www.f2a.org":
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59805
Her position seems to be identical to Bob Enyart's.
Comments:
- Notice that she ignores Ron Paul, even though in actual elections Ron Paul has done better than Giuliani and Thompson
- Her man is Huckabee. Notice that she says about Huckabee the same things that she said about George W. Bush re: appointing "pro-life" Supreme Court Justices.
- She says Huckabee is going to "sign every law that protects you." WHAT LAW?? Everytime Congressman Ron Paul proposes a law under the 14th Amendment that would
- declare the unborn to be "persons,"
- declare that the states have the duty to protect unborn persons
- and prohibits the U.S. Supreme Court from asserting jurisdiction and striking down state efforts to protect the unborn
- Folger puts her faith in Huckabee, while Enyart puts his faith in Alan Keyes.
- This is nuts.
- Happy Roe v. Wade Day.
elected4ever
New member
That is just fine and dandy but are the babies still being killed legally? That would have no protection at all if it wasn't for a few being intimidated. You call that success? My,my, aren't you easily pleased. Makes you look good too.
elected4ever
New member
Amendment 14 - Citizenship Rights. Ratified 7/9/1868. Note History
1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Read it and weep. Who are citizens? It certainly is not the unborn!
eveningsky339
New member
Oh, I'm sorry, but I wasn't born then.
I don't think this is what you are trying to say, but I get the impression that since Colorado didn't instantly fight back, it's fairly pointless to fight 40 years after the fact...
The federal government should have struck down that law, immediately, as it violated the Constitution.
What about the 5th amendment? And the preamble? This was only put into the fold to protect the children of foreigners who were not born here. Their children are born citizens. And the amendment doesn't say, "...deprive any citizen..." It says, "...deprive any person..."
And you're still ignoring the preamble. You're taking the 14th amendment out of context.
wholearmor
Member
So fighting back now is wrong?
drbrumley
Well-known member
No it is not pointless. They could and should fight back starting now.
Is it impossible for you to stick to what I actually wrote and pay attention to what I actually said, or do you just see what you want to see?
Go back, read, try again. Yeeesh.
elected4ever
New member
I do not know of any case where an unborn child has been charged with a capital crime and the preamble is not US Law. The 14th Amendment has a limiting effect on the application of all law. Have you heard of the Unborn being heir to an estate for instance. They do not become heirs until they are born. Declaring an unborn child to be a citizen will have a far reaching effect on American law in areas far removed from abortion.
Even in scripture the person does not become a child of God and until they are born of God and are not heirs of the Kingdom.
Vine&FigTree
Member
Ron Paul's Pearls Before Swine
Ron Paul's Pearls Before Swine
Beppe Severgnini, an Italian writer living in Washington, D.C, discussing his new book, Ciao America! An Italian Discovers the U. S., compared American customs with Italian behavior. His jocular comments often contained an element of uncomfortable truth. One not often mentioned in United States was the interminable, gratuitous insertion of the F--- word in our motion pictures. In my early years that word was never mentioned in polite conversation nor was it used as an expletive. Its usage was confined to crude male discussions of sexual activity. Now Hollywood miscreants are inserting it in every other sentence and it is used frequently even in distaff circles.
Movies are not popular with Christians but when Hollywood can popularize degradation and make the sin of fornication look winsome and desirable the potential for deleterious manipulation is apparent.
Truth is not popular. Alexander Solzhenitsyn, a fearless and gifted truth teller, spoke plainly at Harvard in 1978. There were no cheers and his warning fell on rebellious and unrepentant ears. Read about this event here.
Now that Ron Paul has been banned from the networks it is a mute point, but it may have been fortunate that Ron Paul was excluded from one Fox debate. The debates did not help his candidacy. Juxtaposing town hall meetings might have been a better strategy.
His position in these debates is similar to the world’s relationship to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Like a flower in a cactus garden, Ron Paul is surrounded by five pathetic sycophants: one compromising Christian, one Mormon elected Governor of the most liberal state in the Union and three pagans - all refuse to discuss obeying their Constitutional oath, making them potential criminals. One law-abiding politician and five little Napoleons consumed by a quest for power with feet planted in the anarchic waters of their own personal opinions. They greet wisdom with snide smiles while cameras join in the conspiracy to make foolish what is good, right, and full of wisdom. The last word is reserved for excoriating Ron Paul. The leading Republican candidates for president are brain-washed adolescents who mock truth and snicker when it is expressed. Candidate McCain has a photogenic smirk that shows up well for the camera.
These debates are also a microcosm of democracy in action. A sinful majority can overrule a righteous minority. Without immutable law all that is left is the tyranny of human opinion. Ron Paul’s adamant support for the Constitution is clearly showcased by the criminal potential of his fellow candidates – truth is mocked and evil is allowed to win but most U. S. Christians will not even notice.
It is almost impossible to find a way to pronounce righteousness that is acceptable to reprobates. The Biblical narrative clearly describes retaliation against the truth teller. Many Christians worship the Savior as if He was a secular winner. In worldly terms Jesus was a loser. His followers were attracted by miracles, His honesty was not fetching, and He was not physically attractive. “He was despised and forsaken of men, a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief; and like one from whom men hid their face, He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.” As Jesus was dying on the Cross He was mocked by passersby who hurled abuse at Him, wagged their heads and challenged Him to save Himself.
Getting acquainted with the Devil is a process that begins with vibrant anticipation and ends with an exterminating depression. Pursuing the office of president with righteous intentions is an uphill battle. The Office has been in the hands of the forces of evil for most of our history. Those that successfully seek it make a pact with the Devil for “all the kingdoms of the world, and their glory,” giving Satan their allegiance and allowing him to manipulate their ambitions to conform to his dictates. Their election often depends on their use of evil advisors. Read about advisors here.
The power to dispense propaganda, control public opinion and determine the selection of candidates for both major political parties is in the hands of an elite cadre that controls our media. Ron Paul secured a few friendly interviews but he was usually ignored or portrayed as a marginal maverick with no chance to gain the nomination.
If the United States electorate properly understood the nature of truth, Ron Paul might have a chance. But, unfortunately Christians are naïve, improperly taught by their leaders, and easily manipulated by the Devil’s minions. Ambitious men like Mike Huckabee who are witty, pragmatic, and willing to exploit Christianity will garner most of the Evangelical vote.
The boogey man of Islamic aggression created by the government and fed by Christian heresy is a stumbling block for many Christians. They believe that poorly armed Middle Eastern Muslims are a viable threat to the United States. Their inordinate fear of the resentment and hate our own policies have helped foster makes them willing to murder Muslim men, women, and children to protect their own arrogance. In spite of the fact that the FBI does not agree with the government version of 9/11 (Read about it here.) they believe that 9/11 was the beginning of WWIII and are ready to promote a genocide.
Amy Chua has written a book entitled “Day of Empire, How Hyperpowers Rise to Global Dominance – and why they fall”. Ms. Chua is the daughter of Chinese immigrants, a magna cum laude graduate from Harvard Law School, married to Jed Rubenfeld, also a magna cum laude graduate of Harvard law School, both are law professors at Yale.
The book is easy to read and provides an excellent description of a handful of entities that have exerted sufficient power over their eras to be considered empires: the Persian Empire, the Roman Empire, China’s Tang Dynasty, the Mongol Empire, the Dutch Empire, and the British Empire. In making the case for “tolerance” as a requisite for the growth of imperial power she documents the ability of all empire builders to support conquered cultures, meld them into the empire and provide hope and utility to their people.
Her rendition of early American history is more accurate than that of most Christian interpretations. She correctly points to the secular flavoring of our Constitution, the enlightenment of its authors, and the horde of heretical Christian settlers that arrived shortly after the Puritans, fracturing Christian continuity. With obvious disdain she tells of attempts by the Puritans to maintain a uniform Christian theology in their New England colony.
Professor Chua distinguishes between cultural diversity and tolerance, pointing out that many successful empires were cruel and tyrannical in enforcing obedience to their dictates but allowed captive people to conduct their own religions and their own affairs.
According to Ms. Chua the exclusivity of the orthodox Christian position clearly explained in the Bible is unacceptable in empires. There is an element of truth in her contentions. Tolerance and multiculturalism are quite different. Tolerance allows people with a variety of perspectives to work and contribute to the social order but does not necessarily allow them to disobey dictates of the conquering power. Tyranny and tolerance can and do co-exist. Chua falters in assuming that Christianity would be an exclusive religion administered by a messianic ruler and that the rule of a tolerant secular tyrant would be superior to King Jesus. Living under God’s legal system with fatherly family jurisdiction as the main form of government, magistrates, confined by the same Laws as their subjects, would protect the nation and dispense justice. Power would be diffused with God’s immutable Laws, providing the overarching authority and the ultimate in freedom and prosperity with a minimum of the anarchy of human opinion. Human tyranny is characterized by arbitrary rules and regulations while the Kingdom of Christ is governed by the same legal system now and forever.
Ron Paul is not perfect but his obedience to the Constitution would allow our nation to begin to turn back the tide of secular degradation that has overwhelmed us. He is the only candidate that does not support an American Empire. Most of our voters are not aware that the War in Iraq has nothing to do with protecting our nation but is instead an element in the extension of the empire In spite of the fact it is clearly spelled out in the PNAC documents (Read it here.), the subject is a mute issue in the debates.
Ron Paul’s little corner of truth and wisdom is surrounded by an antagonistic political system, a disagreeable and uncooperative media, an heretical religious order, a stupid electorate, and invisible oligarchs who would seek his life if he attempted to install his platform. As the swollen, impolite ego of diminutive George Stephanopoulos predicted early on, he will not gain the nomination.
Willingness to become subjects in The Kingdom of God may not come until sin is full blown and the wretchedness of the human condition clearly apparent. Confidence in human initiatives is a characteristic of sin. It is a survivor that will continue to bring us chaos and tyranny until the people gain understanding.
"Published originally at EtherZone.com : republication allowed with this notice and hyperlink intact."
Ron Paul's Pearls Before Swine
PRESIDENTIAL DEBATES
PEARLS BEFORE SWINE
By: Al Cronkrite
Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.”
Matthew 7:6
PEARLS BEFORE SWINE
By: Al Cronkrite
Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.”
Matthew 7:6
Beppe Severgnini, an Italian writer living in Washington, D.C, discussing his new book, Ciao America! An Italian Discovers the U. S., compared American customs with Italian behavior. His jocular comments often contained an element of uncomfortable truth. One not often mentioned in United States was the interminable, gratuitous insertion of the F--- word in our motion pictures. In my early years that word was never mentioned in polite conversation nor was it used as an expletive. Its usage was confined to crude male discussions of sexual activity. Now Hollywood miscreants are inserting it in every other sentence and it is used frequently even in distaff circles.
Movies are not popular with Christians but when Hollywood can popularize degradation and make the sin of fornication look winsome and desirable the potential for deleterious manipulation is apparent.
Truth is not popular. Alexander Solzhenitsyn, a fearless and gifted truth teller, spoke plainly at Harvard in 1978. There were no cheers and his warning fell on rebellious and unrepentant ears. Read about this event here.
Now that Ron Paul has been banned from the networks it is a mute point, but it may have been fortunate that Ron Paul was excluded from one Fox debate. The debates did not help his candidacy. Juxtaposing town hall meetings might have been a better strategy.
His position in these debates is similar to the world’s relationship to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Like a flower in a cactus garden, Ron Paul is surrounded by five pathetic sycophants: one compromising Christian, one Mormon elected Governor of the most liberal state in the Union and three pagans - all refuse to discuss obeying their Constitutional oath, making them potential criminals. One law-abiding politician and five little Napoleons consumed by a quest for power with feet planted in the anarchic waters of their own personal opinions. They greet wisdom with snide smiles while cameras join in the conspiracy to make foolish what is good, right, and full of wisdom. The last word is reserved for excoriating Ron Paul. The leading Republican candidates for president are brain-washed adolescents who mock truth and snicker when it is expressed. Candidate McCain has a photogenic smirk that shows up well for the camera.
These debates are also a microcosm of democracy in action. A sinful majority can overrule a righteous minority. Without immutable law all that is left is the tyranny of human opinion. Ron Paul’s adamant support for the Constitution is clearly showcased by the criminal potential of his fellow candidates – truth is mocked and evil is allowed to win but most U. S. Christians will not even notice.
It is almost impossible to find a way to pronounce righteousness that is acceptable to reprobates. The Biblical narrative clearly describes retaliation against the truth teller. Many Christians worship the Savior as if He was a secular winner. In worldly terms Jesus was a loser. His followers were attracted by miracles, His honesty was not fetching, and He was not physically attractive. “He was despised and forsaken of men, a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief; and like one from whom men hid their face, He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.” As Jesus was dying on the Cross He was mocked by passersby who hurled abuse at Him, wagged their heads and challenged Him to save Himself.
Getting acquainted with the Devil is a process that begins with vibrant anticipation and ends with an exterminating depression. Pursuing the office of president with righteous intentions is an uphill battle. The Office has been in the hands of the forces of evil for most of our history. Those that successfully seek it make a pact with the Devil for “all the kingdoms of the world, and their glory,” giving Satan their allegiance and allowing him to manipulate their ambitions to conform to his dictates. Their election often depends on their use of evil advisors. Read about advisors here.
The power to dispense propaganda, control public opinion and determine the selection of candidates for both major political parties is in the hands of an elite cadre that controls our media. Ron Paul secured a few friendly interviews but he was usually ignored or portrayed as a marginal maverick with no chance to gain the nomination.
If the United States electorate properly understood the nature of truth, Ron Paul might have a chance. But, unfortunately Christians are naïve, improperly taught by their leaders, and easily manipulated by the Devil’s minions. Ambitious men like Mike Huckabee who are witty, pragmatic, and willing to exploit Christianity will garner most of the Evangelical vote.
The boogey man of Islamic aggression created by the government and fed by Christian heresy is a stumbling block for many Christians. They believe that poorly armed Middle Eastern Muslims are a viable threat to the United States. Their inordinate fear of the resentment and hate our own policies have helped foster makes them willing to murder Muslim men, women, and children to protect their own arrogance. In spite of the fact that the FBI does not agree with the government version of 9/11 (Read about it here.) they believe that 9/11 was the beginning of WWIII and are ready to promote a genocide.
Amy Chua has written a book entitled “Day of Empire, How Hyperpowers Rise to Global Dominance – and why they fall”. Ms. Chua is the daughter of Chinese immigrants, a magna cum laude graduate from Harvard Law School, married to Jed Rubenfeld, also a magna cum laude graduate of Harvard law School, both are law professors at Yale.
The book is easy to read and provides an excellent description of a handful of entities that have exerted sufficient power over their eras to be considered empires: the Persian Empire, the Roman Empire, China’s Tang Dynasty, the Mongol Empire, the Dutch Empire, and the British Empire. In making the case for “tolerance” as a requisite for the growth of imperial power she documents the ability of all empire builders to support conquered cultures, meld them into the empire and provide hope and utility to their people.
Her rendition of early American history is more accurate than that of most Christian interpretations. She correctly points to the secular flavoring of our Constitution, the enlightenment of its authors, and the horde of heretical Christian settlers that arrived shortly after the Puritans, fracturing Christian continuity. With obvious disdain she tells of attempts by the Puritans to maintain a uniform Christian theology in their New England colony.
Professor Chua distinguishes between cultural diversity and tolerance, pointing out that many successful empires were cruel and tyrannical in enforcing obedience to their dictates but allowed captive people to conduct their own religions and their own affairs.
According to Ms. Chua the exclusivity of the orthodox Christian position clearly explained in the Bible is unacceptable in empires. There is an element of truth in her contentions. Tolerance and multiculturalism are quite different. Tolerance allows people with a variety of perspectives to work and contribute to the social order but does not necessarily allow them to disobey dictates of the conquering power. Tyranny and tolerance can and do co-exist. Chua falters in assuming that Christianity would be an exclusive religion administered by a messianic ruler and that the rule of a tolerant secular tyrant would be superior to King Jesus. Living under God’s legal system with fatherly family jurisdiction as the main form of government, magistrates, confined by the same Laws as their subjects, would protect the nation and dispense justice. Power would be diffused with God’s immutable Laws, providing the overarching authority and the ultimate in freedom and prosperity with a minimum of the anarchy of human opinion. Human tyranny is characterized by arbitrary rules and regulations while the Kingdom of Christ is governed by the same legal system now and forever.
Ron Paul is not perfect but his obedience to the Constitution would allow our nation to begin to turn back the tide of secular degradation that has overwhelmed us. He is the only candidate that does not support an American Empire. Most of our voters are not aware that the War in Iraq has nothing to do with protecting our nation but is instead an element in the extension of the empire In spite of the fact it is clearly spelled out in the PNAC documents (Read it here.), the subject is a mute issue in the debates.
Ron Paul’s little corner of truth and wisdom is surrounded by an antagonistic political system, a disagreeable and uncooperative media, an heretical religious order, a stupid electorate, and invisible oligarchs who would seek his life if he attempted to install his platform. As the swollen, impolite ego of diminutive George Stephanopoulos predicted early on, he will not gain the nomination.
Willingness to become subjects in The Kingdom of God may not come until sin is full blown and the wretchedness of the human condition clearly apparent. Confidence in human initiatives is a characteristic of sin. It is a survivor that will continue to bring us chaos and tyranny until the people gain understanding.
"Published originally at EtherZone.com : republication allowed with this notice and hyperlink intact."
Vine&FigTree
Member
Legal Rights of Unborn Persons
Legal Rights of Unborn Persons
I'm afraid "elected4ever" is a victim of educational malpractice and pro-choice brainwashing, as many of us are.
It has ALWAYS been the case that the unborn are considered "persons" under the law, and can even inherit estates. Centuries of Anglo-American Common Law testify to this point, and even Roe v. Wade side-stepped this issue. See "Clarification Two: The Recognition of the Unborn in Property and Inheritance Law Is of High Significance for the Abortion Issue," in Abortion and the Law: Three Clarifications, excerpts from Slaughter of the Innocents: Abortion, Birth Control and Divorce in Light of Science, Law, and Theology by law professor John Warwick Montgomery.
It works in reverse, too. The unborn Levi retroactively (and prospectively!) discharged his legal obligation to tithe to Melchizedek (Hebrews 7:9).
Legal Rights of Unborn Persons
I'm afraid "elected4ever" is a victim of educational malpractice and pro-choice brainwashing, as many of us are.
But the law has always recognized that a person can be charged with a capital crime for the murder of an unborn person. Even the People's Republic of California charged and convicted Scott Peterson of 2 -- count'em, TWO -- counts of murder, one for Laci and one for the unborn Connor.
You're claiming that the legal protection of "posterity" in the Preamble is not a part of American Law? Ridiculous! Check these documents out, just for starters.
Huh?
A bold bluff, backed by bovine belches.
It has ALWAYS been the case that the unborn are considered "persons" under the law, and can even inherit estates. Centuries of Anglo-American Common Law testify to this point, and even Roe v. Wade side-stepped this issue. See "Clarification Two: The Recognition of the Unborn in Property and Inheritance Law Is of High Significance for the Abortion Issue," in Abortion and the Law: Three Clarifications, excerpts from Slaughter of the Innocents: Abortion, Birth Control and Divorce in Light of Science, Law, and Theology by law professor John Warwick Montgomery.
I don't think anybody is arguing that an unborn person has to be a "citizen" -- even a child conceived by citizens. Non-citizens are also "persons" under the law. The question is whether an unborn non-citizen is a "person" with a right to legal protections. The answer has always been "yes."
I disagree with this, too. To use the legal terminology, the inheritance of the Kingdom "vests" in the elect when they are predestined by God to salvation, even before they are "born again" (Matthew 25:34; Ephesians 1:10-12; Colossians 1:12).
It works in reverse, too. The unborn Levi retroactively (and prospectively!) discharged his legal obligation to tithe to Melchizedek (Hebrews 7:9).
They are a person, even if they are not officially a citizen, yet, you moron. Mexicans are not citizens of the US, but they are still people. And if one comes here illegally and someone kills them, that person can be charged with murder.
elected4ever
New member
Your mixing apples and oranges. Well. I suppose it is not your fault you were predestined to be stupid.
Ya know, you trounced e4e, and then you go and say some of the stupidest things you've said yet, on TOL.
Correct.
As a Christian, I look for a Preacher - God's servant leader in the local church, to adhere strictly to the Bible; (which is much more than) the governing document of the local church. Going outside of what the Bible says because of personal feelings or bias is heresy. Right?
As an American, I look for a President - God's appointed leader of our country, to adhere strictly to the constitution; the governing document of our nation. Going outside of what the constitution says because of personal feelings sounds (yet by no means is) like dictatorship...
...how do you think our military forces arrived in Iraq?
elected4ever
New member
The Mexican is a born person.
They're still not a citizen.
But either way, if someone kills a pregnant woman, they are charged with double homicide.
elected4ever
New member
I KNOW BUT THEY ARE BORN NOT UNBORN.
THE LIFE IS RECOGNIZED BY THE CONSTITUTION. THE LIFE OF THE UNBORN CANNOT BE TAKEN WITHOUT THE CONSENT OF THE MOTHER WHO IS BORN. tHE UNBORN IS CONSIDERED PART OF THE MOTHER'S BODY AND IS SUBJECT TO THE MOTHER'S DEMANDS. CANCER IS ALIVE TO AND MAY NOT BE REMOVED WITHOUT THE CONSENT OF THE MOTHER.
THE COURTS HAVE RECOGNIZED THAT THE UNBORN CHILD IS A PERSON BUT THAT DOES NOT PROTECT THE BABY. THE UNBORN BABY MUST RECEIVE AND HAS THE SAME PROTECTIONS AS THE MOTHER. IT DOES NOT HAVE SEPARATE PROTECTIONS OF LAW APART FROM THE MOTHER. THAT IS WHAT HAS TO CHANGE. YOU ARE FOCUSING ON THE WRONG THING AND ATTACKING A NON EXISTENT PROBLEM. IT DOES NOT MATTER IF YOU AND I THINK IT IS WRONG. IT IS THE LAW AND THE LAW MUST CHANGE. CHANGE THE LAW AND IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT THE ABORTIONIST THINKS:doh:
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We're talking about changing the law.:dunce::duh: