God's Truth
New member
Too dumb.
Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture?
- Thread starter oatmeal
- Start date
Too dumb.
I'm wondering when you'll take notice of the fact that hardly any verse you quote to support your position comes from Paul.
In fact, the only one that DOES come from Paul isn't even talking about the same thing as the other verses:
Otherwise, what will they do who are baptized for the dead, if the dead do not rise at all? Why then are they baptized for the dead?And why do we stand in jeopardy every hour?I affirm, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.If, in the manner of men, I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantage is it to me? If the dead do not rise, “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die!”Do not be deceived: “Evil company corrupts good habits.”Awake to righteousness, and do not sin; for some do not have the knowledge of God. I speak this to your shame.But someone will say, “How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?”Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies.And what you sow, you do not sow that body that shall be, but mere grain—perhaps wheat or some other grain.But God gives it a body as He pleases, and to each seed its own body.All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, and another of birds.There are also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory.So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption.It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power.It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual.The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven.As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly.And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man. - 1 Corinthians 15:29-49 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Corinthians15:29-49&version=NKJV
In other words, you're prooftexting.
God's Truth
New member
Jesus is the Savior not Paul.
I was showing what Jesus said.
You want to know where Paul says those things then I can show you that too.
Has nothing to do with what I said.
And Paul says differently.
I know that he does NOT say those things. Not to Gentiles, at least.
God's Truth
New member
Paul taught the one and only new testament that Jesus made.
2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
1 Corinthians 11:25 In the same way, after supper He took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."
It is the exact same faith that Jesus and his apsotles taught that Paul tried to destroy.
Galatians 1:23 But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed.
Paul says whoever loves God is known by God.
You don't love God unless you obey God.
1 Corinthians 8:3 But whoever loves God is known by God.
Ephesians 5:2 and walk in the way of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
You can't walk in the way of love if you don't do what the WAY taught when he walked the earth.
Paul taught to repent of your sins and prove your repentance by your deeds.
That is the exact same thing that John the baptizer taught, and Jesus Christ himself.
Acts 20:21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.
Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.
That is the exact same gospel that John the baptizer taught:
Luke 3:8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves,
Obey Christ that is what Paul says.
2 Corinthians 10:5 We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ,
Romans 6:17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,
1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God’s commands is what counts.
We obey by repenting then get knowledge.
2 Timothy 2:25 correcting opponents with gentleness. Perhaps God will grant themrepentance and then knowledge of the truth.
Paul is even afraid some of the Corinthians aren't really saved because THEY DIDN'T repent.
2 Corinthians 12:21 I am afraid that when I come again my God will humble me before you, and I will be grieved over many who have sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual sin and debauchery in which they have indulged.
2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
1 Corinthians 11:25 In the same way, after supper He took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."
It is the exact same faith that Jesus and his apsotles taught that Paul tried to destroy.
Galatians 1:23 But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed.
Paul says whoever loves God is known by God.
You don't love God unless you obey God.
1 Corinthians 8:3 But whoever loves God is known by God.
Ephesians 5:2 and walk in the way of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
You can't walk in the way of love if you don't do what the WAY taught when he walked the earth.
Paul taught to repent of your sins and prove your repentance by your deeds.
That is the exact same thing that John the baptizer taught, and Jesus Christ himself.
Acts 20:21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.
Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.
That is the exact same gospel that John the baptizer taught:
Luke 3:8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves,
Obey Christ that is what Paul says.
2 Corinthians 10:5 We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ,
Romans 6:17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,
1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God’s commands is what counts.
We obey by repenting then get knowledge.
2 Timothy 2:25 correcting opponents with gentleness. Perhaps God will grant themrepentance and then knowledge of the truth.
Paul is even afraid some of the Corinthians aren't really saved because THEY DIDN'T repent.
2 Corinthians 12:21 I am afraid that when I come again my God will humble me before you, and I will be grieved over many who have sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual sin and debauchery in which they have indulged.
God's Truth
New member
Saying it doesn't make it so.
No you didn't.
God doesn't endorse the falsehoods you teach, liar.
False.
Jesus was buried and raise himself on the third day.
In other words, his body was in the tomb for a full two days (48 hours), and part of the morning of the third day.
"On the third day," not "after the third day."
Jesus was crucified on a Thursday, not a Friday.
The women discovered the empty tomb on the morning of the third day, which means He was risen by about 6 am that morning.
oatmeal
Well-known member
Wow
You are calling Jesus
a. a liar
b. not able to count to three days and three nights
c. you choose to not believe scripture
d. You prefer your theology over truth
e. You prefer tradition over scripture.
f. You have not bothered to find out why Jesus Christ is right and tradition is wrong
Saying it doesn't make it so.
Jesus said:
Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” - John 2:19 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...p;version=NKJV
Are you ignorant of the fact that "day" has multiple meanings, and that, especially in Hebrew culture, a day means from evening to morning?
Are you ignorant of the fact that the Hebrews have not one but TWO calendars that they use, one for normal months, and the other for ceremonial events?
I think Jesus could count just fine. I think you're the one who is at the very least ignorant of some things.
Yet you refuse to quote the direct passage in your initial comment, preferring only to cite it, and in your rebuke of me, didn't quote a single verse.
Here's what scripture says:
For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, - 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...p;version=NKJV
No, I prefer when people don't try to bear false witness because they were immediately rebutted.
Scripture is quite clear. No tradition needed.
So let's look at what scripture says:
Now Jesus, going up to Jerusalem, took the twelve disciples aside on the road and said to them,[JESUS]“Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be betrayed to the chief priests and to the scribes; and they will condemn Him to death,and deliver Him to the Gentiles to mock and to scourge and to crucify. And the third day He will rise again.”[/JESUS] - Matthew 20:17-19 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...p;version=NKJV
For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, - 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...p;version=NKJV
God's Truth
New member
Paul is even afraid some of the Corinthians aren't really saved because THEY DIDN'T repent.
2 Corinthians 12:21 I am afraid that when I come again my God will humble me before you, and I will be grieved over many who have sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual sin and debauchery in which they have indulged.
Right Divider
Body part
Where does Paul say anything even remotely resembling "not really saved"?
You'll find if you actually read the passage that he doesn't mention ANYTHING about the Corinthians being saved, only that they never repented (turned away from) the sexual sins they had committed.
Try again.
God's Truth
New member
Why would Paul be afraid? Why would Paul be humbled? Why is he say he might be grieved?
Because he is afraid the people are still condemned to hell for not repenting of their sins.
2 Corinthians 12:21 I am afraid that when I come again my God will humble me before you, and I will be grieved over many who have sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual sin and debauchery in which they have indulged.
God's Truth
New member
1 Corinthians 5:5 To deliver such a one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
1 Corinthians 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
1 Corinthians 6:9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men 10nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians 11:31 But if we were more discerning with regard to ourselves, we would not come under such judgment.
So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall! 1 Corinthians 10:12
Look to the very next part of the letter, 2 Corinthians 13.
Now see how Paul says, "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates."
Paul is telling them to examine themselves to see if Christ is in them. If they are just reprobates then they did not really repent of their sins and then not really saved.
Paul says plainly that he is afraid for them. He says they are sinning and to examine themselves to see if Jesus Christ is IN THEM. He says if they are reprobates then Christ is NOT in them.
Maybe because when someone sins, it not only grieves God but also those who love them?
Why does that then imply that the person who sins isn't actually saved?
Where does the verse say that they were still condemned to Hell?
Sounds like you're reading your beliefs into the verse, because it doesn't say nor imply that they were still going to Hell.
Paul is trying to edify them, not convert them! They're already saved, they just haven't repented (turned away from) their sin.
Again, do you think that we excuse ourselves to you? We speak before God in Christ. But we do all things, beloved, for your edification.For I fear lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I wish, and that I shall be found by you such as you do not wish; lest there be contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, backbitings, whisperings, conceits, tumults;lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and I shall mourn for many who have sinned before and have not repented of the uncleanness, fornication, and lewdness which they have practiced. - 2 Corinthians 12:19-21 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Corinthians12:19-21&version=NKJV
Do you know what edify means, GT?
Do you notice how you're having to jump around and quote verses out of order to make your point?
Try reading 1 Corinthians in order, and then 2 Corinthians in order, instead of jumping around cherry picking verses to use as prooftexts for your beliefs.
oatmeal
Well-known member
I cam across pretty harsh, didn't I?
It was probably unwarranted,, or maybe it was. However, longsuffering and patience would have been a better process.
Jesus Christ saying it does make it so.
He said three days and nights and he meant it!
Matthew 12:40
For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Jesus said:
Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” - John 2:19 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...p;version=NKJV
Are you ignorant of the fact that "day" has multiple meanings, and that, especially in Hebrew culture, a day means from evening to morning?
I am very aware that "day" has a variety of meanings from part of a day to periods of years or more.
Jesus Christ would have been aware of that as well.
Which is why he did not say "three days"
Please reread and find out for yourself what Jesus Christ said in Matthew 12:40
For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
How long did Jesus say he would be in the heart of the earth?
a. three days
b. three days and three nights.
So you have to ask yourself,
Did Jesus know what he was talking about?
Did Jesus use his words carelessly?
Was he speaking loosely or accurately?
Why did he say "three days and three nights" instead of your theology which says "three days"?
At least we agree on Jesus' ability to count to three.
He said three days and three nights because he meant three days and three nights and nights
He said three because he can count and he meant three of each.
I didn't refuse to. I did not include it because it seems a popular enough verse that most people would know what I was referring to.
My mistake. Evidently, you didn't know as well as you should have known.
Another reason, if you must know is that this website used to link up to another website that would display verses that that complete references, evidently, it no longer has that feature.
So, for your benefit I submit the following from Bible gateway:
KJ21
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly, so shall the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
ASV
for as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
AMP
for just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
AMPC
For even as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
BRG
For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
CSB
For as Jonah was in the belly of the huge fish three days and three nights, so the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.
CEB
Just as Jonah was in the whale’s belly for three days and three nights, so the Human One will be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights.
CJB
For just as Yonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea-monster, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the depths of the earth.
CEV
He was in the stomach of a big fish for three days and nights, just as the Son of Man will be deep in the earth for three days and nights.
DARBY
For even as Jonas was in the belly of the great fish three days and three nights, thus shall the Son of man be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.
DLNT
For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea-creature, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
DRA
For as Jonas was in the whale's belly three days and three nights: so shall the Son of man be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.
ERV
Jonah was in the stomach of the big fish for three days and three nights. In the same way, the Son of Man will be in the grave three days and three nights.
EHV
For just as Jonah was in the belly of the huge fish for three days and three nights, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
ESV
For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
ESVUK
For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
EXB
[L For just as] Jonah was in the stomach of the ·big fish [sea monster; sea creature] for three days and three nights [Jon. 1:17]. In the same way, the Son of Man will be in the ·grave [L heart of the earth] three days and three nights.
GNV
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly: so shall the son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
GW
Just as Jonah was in the belly of a huge fish for three days and three nights, so the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights.
GNT
In the same way that Jonah spent three days and nights in the big fish, so will the Son of Man spend three days and nights in the depths of the earth.
HCSB
For as Jonah was in the belly of the huge fish three days and three nights, so the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.
ICB
Jonah was in the stomach of the big fish for three days and three nights. In the same way, the Son of Man will be in the grave three days and three nights.
ISV
because just as Jonah was in the stomach of the sea creature for three days and three nights, so the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights.
PHILLIPS
Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said, “Master, we want to see a sign from you.” But Jesus told them, “It is an evil and unfaithful generation that craves for a sign, and no sign will be given to it—except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For just as Jonah was in the belly of that great sea-monster for three days and nights, so will the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth for three days and nights. The men of Nineveh will stand up with this generation in the judgment and will condemn it. For they did repent when Jonah preached to them, and you have more than Jonah’s preaching with you now! The Queen of the South will stand up in the judgment with this generation and will condemn it. For she came from the ends of the earth to listen to the wisdom of Solomon, and you have more than the wisdom of Solomon with you now!
KJV
For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
AKJV
for as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
LEB
For just as Jonah was in the belly of the huge fish three days and three nights, so the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.
TLB
But Jesus replied, “Only an evil, faithless nation would ask for further proof; and none will be given except what happened to Jonah the prophet! For as Jonah was in the great fish for three days and three nights, so I, the Messiah, shall be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.
MSG
Jesus said, “You’re looking for proof, but you’re looking for the wrong kind. All you want is something to titillate your curiosity, satisfy your lust for miracles. The only proof you’re going to get is what looks like the absence of proof: Jonah-evidence. Like Jonah, three days and nights in the fish’s belly, the Son of Man will be gone three days and nights in a deep grave.
MEV
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
MOUNCE
For just as Jonah was in the belly of the great fish for three days and three nights, so will the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights.
NOG
Just as Jonah was in the belly of a huge fish for three days and three nights, so the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights.
NABRE
Just as Jonah was in the belly of the whale three days and three nights, so will the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.
NASB
for just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
NCV
Jonah was in the stomach of the big fish for three days and three nights. In the same way, the Son of Man will be in the grave three days and three nights.
NET
For just as Jonah was in the belly of the huge fish for three days and three nights, so the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights.
NIRV
Jonah was in the belly of a huge fish for three days and three nights. Something like that will happen to the Son of Man. He will spend three days and three nights in the grave.
NIV
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
NIVUK
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
NKJV
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
NLV
Jonah was three days and three nights in the stomach of a big fish. The Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the grave also.
NLT
For as Jonah was in the belly of the great fish for three days and three nights, so will the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights.
NMB
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly, so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
NRSV
For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster, so for three days and three nights the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth.
NRSVA
For just as Jonah was for three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster, so for three days and three nights the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth.
NRSVACE
For just as Jonah was for three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster, so for three days and three nights the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth.
NRSVCE
For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster, so for three days and three nights the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth.
NTE
Jonah, you see, was in the stomach of the sea-monster for three days and three nights – and in the same way the son of man will be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights.
OJB
For just as Yonah was in the belly of the great fish SHLOSHAH YAMIM USHLOSHAH LAILAH (three days and three nights, YONAH 1:17), so will be the Ben HaAdam (Moshiach) in the heart of the earth SHLOSHAH YAMIM USHLOSHAH LAILOT (three days and three nights).
TPT
For just like Jonah was in the belly of the huge sea creature for three days and three nights, so the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights.
RGT
“For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so shall the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
RSV
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, so will the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
RSVCE
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, so will the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
TLV
For just as Jonah was in the belly of the great fish for three days and three nights, so the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights.
VOICE
Jonah spent three days and three nights in the belly of a great fish, as the Son of Man will spend three days and three nights in the belly of the earth.
WEB
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the huge fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
WE
Jonah was inside the big sea animal for three days and three nights. So the Son of Man will be in the ground for three days and three nights.
WYC
For as Jonas was in the womb of a whale three days and three nights, so man's Son shall be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.
YLT
for, as Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights, so shall the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.
Seems "three days and three nights" is the actual statement Jesus made, not "three days" as you seem to think.
By the way, God knows about "day" having different meanings so God makes a point of clarifying that statement when He deems it necessary as in
Genesis 1:5...
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
These six days of God's activity were per God's description, periods of 24 hours each.
With that in mind, Jesus likewise defined what he was talking about.
He too was speaking of three 24 hour periods of time, and if you need to know, three 24 hours in a row, no gaps. That is, one 72 hour period of time.
Thus Jesus met the legal requirement of being officially dead, having been dead for three days and three nights to be officially declared dead.
So for your benefit and learning let me repeat.
Matthew 12:40
For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.