REPORT: God's plan of salvation

servantofChrist

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I Know About Dispensations

I Know About Dispensations

Learn about dispensations.

I know about dispensations, I just don't know what your meaning is here. These words in question were written to Jews who were living under the New Covenant.

In verse 5, the writer cites words of prophecy in Psa. 2:7. Then in verse 6, he makes reference to Melchizedek, citing Psa. 110:4.

But he does that to lay the basis for what he is about to say to them next. Then he shifts their thinking from those O. T. passages and brings them forward, making reference to Christ.

It's perfectly clear that Heb. 5:9 is not pointing back to the old dispensation, but rather is speaking of the new ("Christian") one that those Jews were living in: because he speaks of Christ and the eternal salvation that He offers to "those who OBEY HIM."

Perhaps you're the one who needs to learn about "dispensations."
 

servantofChrist

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Well Said, "IntoJoy"

Well Said, "IntoJoy"

Romans 3:24: being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

God bless u servant

Well said, "intojoy," and God bless you. But this is a single statement of truth talking about God being the Originator and Provider of man's salvation. It doesn't mention man's response because it wasn't intended to. Yet, the Bible makes it clear that man's response to what God has provided, is required for his salvation: "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven." (Matt. 7:21) Transpose the last part of the verse and it would read: "He who does the will of My Father in heaven shall enter the kingdom of heaven." Which implies that those who don't, won't!

From Genesis to Revelation, the Bible shows that redemption consists of two parts --- God's and man's. God is, of course, the Great Provider, providing what we could have never provided for ourselves: the forgiveness of our sins by Christ's blood shed on the cross, and our resurrection made possible by His resurrection from the dead.

But then God lays out His will for us in writing (the written New Testament) and says that only those who "do" that will shall enter the kingdom of heaven.

Have you ever noticed how much teaching and instruction there is in the New Testament? That's a LOT of will for us to "do"!

I guess I always wonder why, if no response on our part is required except just to accept what God has given, nothing more, then why are there hundreds of commands in the New Testament for us to obey (many of them given in the imperative mood) with regard to holy living and lifelong spiritual growth, and all of warnings and admonitions given to us, and writing to Christians about the horrors of Hell. Why all of that if no response on our part is required except to merely "accept" what God has given, and then it's a done deal?

I've gotta go for now. I'll check back when I can. Blessings to all of you : )
 
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Lighthouse

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I know about dispensations, I just don't know what your meaning is here. These words in question were written to Jews who were living under the New Covenant.

In verse 5, the writer cites words of prophecy in Psa. 2:7. Then in verse 6, he makes reference to Melchizedek, citing Psa. 110:4.

But he does that to lay the basis for what he is about to say to them next. Then he shifts their thinking from those O. T. passages and brings them forward, making reference to Christ.

It's perfectly clear that Heb. 5:9 is not pointing back to the old dispensation, but rather is speaking of the new ("Christian") one that those Jews were living in: because he speaks of Christ and the eternal salvation that He offers to "those who OBEY HIM."

Perhaps you're the one who needs to learn about "dispensations."
We're not under the covenant spoken of in Hebrews; we're under the dispensation of the grace of God, which was preached by the apostle to the Gentiles: Paul. Hebrews was written to whom the title suggests.
 

intojoy

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Romans 5:20: And the law came in besides, that the trespass might abound; but where sin abounded, grace did abound more exceedingly.

Ephesians 2:5-8: even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved), and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus: that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus: for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God.

In every age God has given commandments to man and in every age man has broken them.

You're right about the multitude of commandments before you and I in this age, that's a correct observation. In James alone we are given scores of laws to obey. Loving my wife is a command of the law of Liberty - the law of Christ, I see this as non optional as something the Word teaches to be obeyed.

The fascinating thing about the Laws of David's day to me is the fact that God intentionally gave it to him with the purpose of revealing sin and increasing sin in David's life. It revealed and increased sin because it gave a holy standard and left David to try to gain righteousness by following that standard. David failed miserably. I used to think that it was the laws fault but it wasn't the law, it was the weakness of the flesh to operate under the law (Mosaic Law of 613 commands). David's attitude toward this curve ball of commandments? He said the law was his delight and he meditated in it day and night - what a guy!

I believe that David knew salvation was a gift of grace apart from keeping the law. He said so on several occasions. I believe I am saved by grace alone thru faith alone in Christ alone plus nothing. But my life is lived and judged on how I follow the teachings of the bible. I have been blessed and suffered discipline based on my decisions to be obedient to or disobedient to the Law of Christ which includes every New Testament commandment. Some of the Laws of Moses are repeated in the NT and I believe that the Noahic Covenant is still valid for us to follow.

Sorry for not keeping this short. I understand your passion and concern and desire to serve God, I see myself wanting to do the same but I believe that we who have been sealed with the Holy Spirit have been enabled by God to live sanctified and spiritually mature lived unlike David who not only was given a law that he could never keep but also prayed a prayer to never have the Spirit removed from him as it was from Saul. You and I cannot pray that prayer nor sing that beautiful song -" take not thy Holy Spirit from me" because He abides in us eternally.

Thus on the basis of the grace of God we obey and not that we obey to receive that grace, I believe that is the scriptural balance between works and grace that we work because we've already been saved.
 

servantofChrist

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Clarification Needed

Clarification Needed

The most important question that anyone will ever be required to answer in life is the same question that will determine the true quality to which that life can be lived for all eternity. The question is, "Have you accepted God’s gift of salvation?" The answer to this one question will determine eternity for you. The question is not, "Are you a good person?" or, "Do you go to church?" Or even, "Do you have a knowledge that Jesus Christ lived and died?" The question is, "Have you accepted God’s gift of salvation?" If you have, then you are free from the debt of sin and will enjoy eternity in a loving relationship with the God of all creation. If you decide not to accept God’s gift, then you will spend eternity burdened with the debt of your sin and all of its horrible consequences. God is a gentleman and will not force anyone to live with Him. He has given us the free choice to accept and love Him, or to reject and be apart from Him.

Who needs the gift
The Bible tells us that everyone is in need of God’s great mercy: Romans 3:23 "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."

A price to be paid
The debt, or price of sin, is separation from God who is holy. Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death…"

Payment in full
But God is loving and wants to have fellowship with His children. Like any good father, He does not want us to die. However, He is a just God and could not simply pretend that we had never sinned and allow us to go free without the debt being paid. So He made a way for us to come back into union with Him, and still maintain justice so that the debt is paid in full. God Himself paid our price, not with the wink of an eye, but with His own blood. Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Salvation
However, a gift, no matter how great and wonderful, is useless if it is not accepted. In order to benefit from God’s sacrifice for us, you must accept the gift. The Bible states: Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Putting it all together
The choice is as simple as it is vital. Humble yourself before God and admit that you are a sinner. Tell God that you realize that the price for your debt is death, but that you accept His gift and believe that the Lord Jesus Christ died for your (personal) sins. Tell Him that you believe that He raised Jesus from the dead, showing that you also will be raised. Then thank Him. What a wonderful Father. He made the entire universe, the billions of stars and planets and galaxies. He constructed the incredible complexity of the human brain. He holds all of creation together by the power of His spoken Word. That He would be willing to come to us, to be humbled and beaten and spit upon and even to suffer the death of the cross, for you and me, that is a God to love. A God to thank and to praise forever and ever. How wonderful is His name.

If you said to me, "I'm offering you a gift of $1,000 (wishful thinking!)," and I replied, "Thank you, I accept it." Before the money is actually put it into my hand, I have already accepted your offer when I decided to in my mind.

You said, "The question is, "Have you accepted God’s gift of salvation?" If you have, then you are free from the debt of sin and will enjoy eternity in a loving relationship with the God of all creation."

But then you added to that these two things in Rom. 10:9 (1) confessing the LORD Jesus, and (2) believing with one's heart that God has raised him from the dead.

That goes beyond merely accepting God's gift of salvation. So which one is it?

What if an unbeliever, who has no intention of ever turning to Christ, is told that all he has to do is just "accept God's gift of salvation," he doesn't have to do anything else because the gift is free and unconditional. And he says, "Sure, I'll accept it, since I can keep on living my life the way I want to."
 
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intojoy

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If you said to me, "I'm offering you a gift of $1,000 (wishful thinking!)," and I replied, "Thank you, I accept it." Before the money is actually put it into my hand, I have already accepted your offer when I decided to in my mind.

You said, "The question is, "Have you accepted God’s gift of salvation?" If you have, then you are free from the debt of sin and will enjoy eternity in a loving relationship with the God of all creation."

But then you added to that these two things in Rom. 10:9 (1) confessing the LORD Jesus, and (2) believing with one's heart that God has raised him from the dead.

That goes beyond merely accepting God's gift of salvation. So which one is it?

What if an unbeliever, who has no intention of ever turning to Christ, is told that all he has to do is just "accept God's gift of salvation," he doesn't have to do anything else because the gift is free and unconditional. And he says, "Sure, I'll accept it, since I can keep on living my life the way I want to."

That's not possible because once a person is born again (freely) they are no longer their own but have been bought by Yeshua's blood and the bible tells us God disciplines those who are His even up to an early death.

That question or argument or scenario - up in smoke.
 

Ardima

New member
If you said to me, "I'm offering you a gift of $1,000 (wishful thinking!)," and I replied, "Thank you, I accept it." Before the money is actually put it into my hand, I have already accepted your offer when I decided to in my mind.

You said, "The question is, "Have you accepted God’s gift of salvation?" If you have, then you are free from the debt of sin and will enjoy eternity in a loving relationship with the God of all creation."

But then you added to that these two things in Rom. 10:9 (1) confessing the LORD Jesus, and (2) believing with one's heart that God has raised him from the dead.

That goes beyond merely accepting God's gift of salvation. So which one is it?

What if an unbeliever, who has no intention of ever turning to Christ, is told that all he has to do is just "accept God's gift of salvation," he doesn't have to do anything else because the gift is free and unconditional. And he says, "Sure, I'll accept it, since I can keep on living my life the way I want to."

The thing you need to ask yourself is what is the Gift of God? Is it salvation? Is it eternal life? What was the Gift that God gave?

I'll give you a hint; it is found in John 3:16. The Gift of God is Jesus!!
We were given Jesus. He is the gift we need to receive. Jesus is our Salvation. Jesus is our Life. Jesus is our Righteousness...

How often we search for the thing and forget to search for the who. When we possess Jesus Christ we possess all of the things.

Posted from the TOL App!
 

cloud7divine

New member
"Trully I say unto you......."

JESUS CHRIST the son of GOD the heavenly father is the way, the truth, and the life, and only through him can we reach the heavenly father GOD almighty!

Agreed with all you stated and preached straight from the holy scriptures.

We must believe to have eternal life, we must love to know the father in heaven through his son lord JESUS, and we must be obedient in that love for that sums up the laws. For with out love we are nothing...be it given or bestowed by grace.

Theology is one thing, but understanding; which we must not lean on our own, but on the grace of GOD through his son JESUS; whom again I repeat Is the way, the truth and the life.
 

ac111971

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REPORT: God's plan of salvation

I think you have not read the full bible. There are many activities performed by Jesus that you have mentioned.

1) Did Jesus performed ablution before prayer?
2) How did he prostrate to worship God?
3) Was he circumcised?
4) Did he drinks Alcohol and Wine?
5) Did he eat pork?

“Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.” [Luke 22:42].
 

Ben Masada

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I think you have not read the full bible. There are many activities performed by Jesus that you have mentioned.

1) Did Jesus performed ablution before prayer?

Yes, as the loyal Jew that Jesus was, he performed ablutions not only before prayers but mainly before meals.

2) How did he prostrate to worship God?

He prostrated on his knees and most the time he would stretch himself flat on the floor face down. The Jewish standing up posture to pray came about after Christianity in order to maintain distinction from Christians.

3) Was he circumcised?

Most definitely yes and on the 8th day of birth just like any other Jew. (Luke 2:21)

4) Did he drinks Alcohol and Wine?

Yes, he did. (Luke 7:34)

5) Did he eat pork?

Most definitely not as he was a loyal Jew, even a Rabbi.

“Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.” [Luke 22:42].

"Yours be done; not mine." (Mat. 26:39) What was Jesus' will? Not the same as that of God. Perhaps that's the reason why God did not answer his pray at the Gethsemane as it was against God's will. It means that Jesus was forced to walk the Via Dolorosa against his will. It also means that Christians are wrong to say that willingly, Jesus walked to the cross to die for all men. He didn't. He even couldn't because it would be a contradiction to Jeremiah 31:30 which says that no one can die for the sins of another.
 

intojoy

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Ben, the Torah and Mishna are not equal. One is God's word and one is man's word. Yeshua did not follow Mishnaic law

He broke it repeatedly
 

Ben Masada

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Ben, the Torah and Mishna are not equal. One is God's word and one is man's word. Yeshua did not follow Mishnaic law

He broke it repeatedly

Never mind about the Mishnah. The issue under discussion is not Jesus versus the Mishnah but Torah versus the NT. Jesus was a loyal Jew whose Faith was Judaism and the NT is using a Jew to preach against Judaism. My post was to show what Jesus had undergone as a loyal Jew. In fact, the Hebrew Scriptures were the only Scriptures Jesus referred to as the Word of God as he never even dreamed that the NT would ever rise.
 

TimLutz

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I would like to point out his breaking man's law on the sabbath. And redirecting back to it's intent. A day of spiritual and physical refreshment. And if you compare ot to nt you will see the theology threads.

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intojoy

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Never mind about the Mishnah. The issue under discussion is not Jesus versus the Mishnah but Torah versus the NT. Jesus was a loyal Jew whose Faith was Judaism and the NT is using a Jew to preach against Judaism. My post was to show what Jesus had undergone as a loyal Jew. In fact, the Hebrew Scriptures were the only Scriptures Jesus referred to as the Word of God as he never even dreamed that the NT would ever rise.


On every occasion in the nt when the Pharisees challenged Yeshua they only challenged Him on breaking Mishnaic law. Only once do they attempt to accuse Him of breaking Mosaic law and when they failed they never tried it again.

That is significant.
 

Ben Masada

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On every occasion in the nt when the Pharisees challenged Yeshua they only challenged Him on breaking Mishnaic law. Only once do they attempt to accuse Him of breaking Mosaic law and when they failed they never tried it again.

That is significant.

Would you please quote where the Pharisees would challenge Jesus for breaking Mishnaic laws? I can't find those challenges.
 

TimLutz

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Pharisees and Scribes Challenge Jesus About Tradition (Matthew 15:1-20; Mark 7:1-23)

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Ben Masada

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Pharisees and Scribes Challenge Jesus About Tradition (Matthew 15:1-20; Mark 7:1-23)

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Both quotes above are anti-Jewish slanders by Hellenists former disciples of Paul with the intent to promote the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology. If those texts were true Jesus would be in contradiction with himself after his declaration that he had come to fulfill and to confirm all the Jewish laws down to the letter, even down to the dot of the letter of Matthew 5:17-19. Are you ready to deny that Jesus was telling the truth in Matthew 5:17-19? I didn't think so. Because of these difficulties, I have come to the conclusion that no more than 20% of the NT is worthy learning something from.
 
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