each chapter of the apocalypse should be evaluated on its own
regardless of what is in the chapter before or after
that is the recapitulation theory
regardless of what is in the chapter before or after
that is the recapitulation theory
recapitulation
- Thread starter chrysostom
- Start date
Interplanner
Well-known member
Not sure about this at all. It should not be done with any literature, because the neighboring chapters provide context and form meaning.
The Rev should not be used to predict world events, and it is should not be used to start any beliefs that are not perfectly clear from ordinary-language passages elsewhere in the NT. It is primarily pastoral for the 1st century Jewish Christians who lost so much in the upheaval of the 1st generation. Like Mk 13 and Mt 24B, it expected the 2nd coming (the final day of earth as we know it) to be right after the destruction of Jerusalem (the wedding feast is right after the stoning of the harlot). But there is an allowance for a delay in Mk 13 and Mt 24B and a complete explanation in 2 Pet 3.
If you meant recapitulation in the sense of a repeat of 70 AD in our future, that is pretty far-fetched. None of the key players are in the same position at all that they were in 66 when the Jewish War (obviously of 1st century times) started, and ended in doom in 70 AD.
Interplanner
Well-known member
If that's recapitulation, I would have to conclude that Victorinus had an attention disorder.
I agree but we should not ignore historical events that could be used to help us understand the apocalypse
and
this is clearly being done
many commentaries have adopted this theory of recapitulation believing making sense of the apocalypse without it is impossible
Interplanner
Well-known member
The Rev says it is about things at hand, quickly, soon. It was a pastoral piece to help Christians in Judea in the 1st century see God's victory over and behind the immediate events and losses. The wedding took place after the harlot was stoned and attacked by the beast, even though they partnered for a while. The final day of judgement and NHNE did not follow right after that, even though even Paul expected it, but was delayed like Mark, Matthew and Peter indicated.
What is the TOL App I keep hearing about ? Is it for devices only or desktop also ? I hear good things.
exminister
Well-known member
The ground may be hard fought but it's like the king of the hill game except each is standing on separate ground and don't know it.
the chapters is the apocalypse are not necessarily in chronological order
again
OCTOBER23
New member
Saint Victorinus of Pettau or of Poetovio, died 303 was an Early Christian ecclesiastical writer who flourished about 270, and who was martyred during the persecutions of Emperor Diocletian. A Bishop of Poetovio (modern Ptuj in Slovenia; German: Pettau) in Pannonia, Victorinus is also known as Victorinus Petavionensis, Poetovionensis or Victorinus of Ptuj.[1]
Born probably in Greece on the confines of the Eastern and Western Empires or in Poetovio with rather mixed population, due to its military character, Victorinus spoke Greek better than Latin, which explains why, in St. Jerome's opinion, his works written in the latter tongue were more remarkable for their matter than for their style. He was the first theologian to use Latin for his exegesis. He is one of the earliest church fathers to give any indication against Chiliasm, though he still respects the gathering of the church to Judea. Moreover, his remarks on the twentieth chapter of the Apocalypse stand in contradiction to his commentary on the seventh millennium given in his work On the Creation of the World,[2] possibly indicating a redaction in his Commentary on the Apocalypse,[3] or a change of opinion.
His works were ranked with the apocrypha in the decree, later attributed to Pope Gelasius I, which excluded and anathematized them with that of many other early fathers. That is to say they were not considered free of error.[4] By contrast, St. Jerome gives him an honourable place in his catalogue of ecclesiastical writers. Victorinus composed commentaries on various books of Holy Scripture, such as Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Habakkuk, Ecclesiastes, the Canticle of Canticles, St. Matthew, and the Apocalypse, besides treatises against the heresies of his time.
All his works have disappeared save his Commentary on Apocalypse and short tract On the construction of the world ('De fabrica mundi). It is agreed among scholars, that these texts are really a remnant of his works. The Migne edition, in Patrologia Latina V (1844) 301–344, is considered no more reliable, since the discovery of an important codex by Haussleiter (edition in CSEL 49, 1916), the reference however is to be taken rather from the new critical edition by M. Dulaey in SCh 421 (1997). It is incorrect to regard him as the author of two poems,De Jesu Christo and De Pascha, which are included in the collection of Fabricius.
Victorinus' memorial day in both the Eastern and Western Churches is 2 November. Until the 17th century he was likewise confused with the Latin rhetorician, Victorinus Afer.
Wikpedia
Born probably in Greece on the confines of the Eastern and Western Empires or in Poetovio with rather mixed population, due to its military character, Victorinus spoke Greek better than Latin, which explains why, in St. Jerome's opinion, his works written in the latter tongue were more remarkable for their matter than for their style. He was the first theologian to use Latin for his exegesis. He is one of the earliest church fathers to give any indication against Chiliasm, though he still respects the gathering of the church to Judea. Moreover, his remarks on the twentieth chapter of the Apocalypse stand in contradiction to his commentary on the seventh millennium given in his work On the Creation of the World,[2] possibly indicating a redaction in his Commentary on the Apocalypse,[3] or a change of opinion.
His works were ranked with the apocrypha in the decree, later attributed to Pope Gelasius I, which excluded and anathematized them with that of many other early fathers. That is to say they were not considered free of error.[4] By contrast, St. Jerome gives him an honourable place in his catalogue of ecclesiastical writers. Victorinus composed commentaries on various books of Holy Scripture, such as Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Habakkuk, Ecclesiastes, the Canticle of Canticles, St. Matthew, and the Apocalypse, besides treatises against the heresies of his time.
All his works have disappeared save his Commentary on Apocalypse and short tract On the construction of the world ('De fabrica mundi). It is agreed among scholars, that these texts are really a remnant of his works. The Migne edition, in Patrologia Latina V (1844) 301–344, is considered no more reliable, since the discovery of an important codex by Haussleiter (edition in CSEL 49, 1916), the reference however is to be taken rather from the new critical edition by M. Dulaey in SCh 421 (1997). It is incorrect to regard him as the author of two poems,De Jesu Christo and De Pascha, which are included in the collection of Fabricius.
Victorinus' memorial day in both the Eastern and Western Churches is 2 November. Until the 17th century he was likewise confused with the Latin rhetorician, Victorinus Afer.
Wikpedia
nice cut and paste oct23
thanks for not posting his whole commentary
thanks for not posting his whole commentary
the chapters of the apocalypse are not necessarily chronological
so
each chapter must be evaluated all by itself
so
each chapter must be evaluated all by itself
Is Revelation about ultimate salvation of the believer?
among other things
yes
it is about knowing our works
and
we will be held accountable
but
the primary point of the apocalypse
is
that good will triumph over evil
the good guys will win
whether or not we as individuals overcometh
again
please don't delete
please don't delete
recapitulate this
Interplanner
Well-known member
The theory has a fundamental flaw. Mt24A etc is about 1st century Judea. B is about the worldwide judgement. It is originally expressed as B following right after A but a delay is allowed. We know the delay is in effect...because here we are. The delay is explained in 2 Pet 3. Like the other NT "2nd coming/judgement day" passages in ordinary (non-symbolic) writing, there is nothing future to happen in Judea. Rom 2, 8, 11, I Cor 15, Heb 9, Acts 17, 2 Tim 4, etc.
The Rev was a pastoral presentation so that 1st century Judean Christians could understand why the 'harlot' was being 'stoned' and could enjoy the 'wedding' of the true wife afterwards. It is not for modern prognostication in general. There is a short worldwide rebellion coming (or going on) which harrasses all Christians all over the world, defeated magnificently by the appearing of Christ.