ECT "PISTEUO", the secret of the universe....

[Rosenritter]

Right , a verb is an action word . Do you agree , a verb is an "act ," based upon a belief , sustained by confidence ?

No.

"Panic" is a verb, such as in "to panic" and that is an act which is not based upon belief nor sustained by confidence.

"Doubt" is a very, such as in "to doubt" and that is an act which is not based upon belief nor sustained by confidence.

"Sleep" is a verb, such as in "to sleep" and that is an act which is not based upon belief nor sustained by confidence.

"Die" is a verb, such as in "to die" and that is an act which is not based upon belief nor sustained by confidence.

I used multiple examples just to show that it is not an example of the exception proving the rule.

 

[Faither]

No.

"Panic" is a verb, such as in "to panic" and that is an act which is not based upon belief nor sustained by confidence.

"Doubt" is a very, such as in "to doubt" and that is an act which is not based upon belief nor sustained by confidence.

"Sleep" is a verb, such as in "to sleep" and that is an act which is not based upon belief nor sustained by confidence.

"Die" is a verb, such as in "to die" and that is an act which is not based upon belief nor sustained by confidence.

I used multiple examples just to show that it is not an example of the exception proving the rule.

Let's take your first example " panic " .

The act of action of panicing , is based upon a belief that something is threatening you , and sustained by a confidence that your panic will eleveate such threat .

Doubt is an act , based upon a belief, sustained by confidence .

Sleep is an act , based upon a belief , sustained by confidence .

Die ( if done by ones self ) is an act , based upon a belief , sustained by confidence .

A verb played out , is an action , we agree on that . But the action must be based on somekind of belief , and accually performed or sustained with confidence , right ?

 

[Rosenritter]

Let's take your first example " panic " .

The act of action of panicing , is based upon a belief that something is threatening you , and sustained by a confidence that your panic will eleveate such threat .

Doubt is an act , based upon a belief, sustained by confidence .

Sleep is an act , based upon a belief , sustained by confidence .

Die ( if done by ones self ) is an act , based upon a belief , sustained by confidence .

A verb played out , is an action , we agree on that . But the action must be based on somekind of belief , and accually performed or sustained with confidence , right ?

No, I cannot agree that one dies because they are acting on belief or confidence. People die every day and sometimes while unconscious. Even the example of doubt is about the lack of belief and lack of confidence.

 

[Faither]

No, I cannot agree that one dies because they are acting on belief or confidence. People die every day and sometimes while unconscious. Even the example of doubt is about the lack of belief and lack of confidence.

Like I highlighted , the word die in verb form , could only apply if one was committing the act . So to play out the action of the verb for die , it is an act , based upon the specific belief that the act will work , and the act is sustained or completed by sustaining the act with confidence .

As for doubt , if one doubts something from lack of belief ,, lack of belief is still a belief , and doubt
acting on lack of confidence is also a belief .

We agree a verb is an action word correct?

How would you describe the verb action being brought full term or being completed .

 

[Faither]

Like I highlighted , the word die in verb form , could only apply if one was committing the act . So to play out the action of the verb for die , it is an act , based upon the specific belief that the act will work , and the act is sustained or completed by sustaining the act with confidence .

As for doubt , if one doubts something from lack of belief ,, lack of belief is still a belief , and doubt
acting on lack of confidence is also a belief .

We agree a verb is an action word correct?

How would you describe the verb action being brought full term or being completed .

Rosenritter , hopefully your thinking of the question I've asked , and it's not a deal breaker to our discussion .

 

[Rosenritter]

Rosenritter , hopefully your thinking of the question I've asked , and it's not a deal breaker to our discussion .

Faither, I'm lost about where you are trying to go, and I'm a little worried that a little too much might be built like a stack of blocks that teeter a little on top of each other, becoming a little more unstable with each layer. Every couple steps along the way here my answers are contrary to where you were expecting I might answer. Could you try a different approach, like perhaps the "big picture" method or something in between? I'm sure you have a very positive thing you're trying to convey and maybe I might not agree with every detail about how you thought you got there, but I'd like to know what it is.

 

[Faither]

Faither, I'm lost about where you are trying to go, and I'm a little worried that a little too much might be built like a stack of blocks that teeter a little on top of each other, becoming a little more unstable with each layer. Every couple steps along the way here my answers are contrary to where you were expecting I might answer. Could you try a different approach, like perhaps the "big picture" method or something in between? I'm sure you have a very positive thing you're trying to convey and maybe I might not agree with every detail about how you thought you got there, but I'd like to know what it is.

I was taught with the gastault method for 30 years . This method throws alot of little truths at you and then at some point it hits you , the big truth . Maybe some of that has rubbed off on me .

You agreed with the first two points , the first being that pisteuo is used 248 times and is the corresponding verb to the noun pistis , and the second , that pisteuo means " NOT " just to believe , that it's a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender . I needed you to agree with the word the original writers used and the Greek dictionarys definition of the word , and you did . I rarely find anyone will agree with the second point but it's taken word for word from the Greek dictionary .

The third point , that the English language doesn't have a word, a verb form of the word Faith , like the Greek does for the word pistis , you reluctantly agreed at best .

We then went to my fourth point , what a verb is in its full expression . This may seem like a basic truth not worthy of looking at , but it's important to the structure having a right understanding of how a verb is used and what it encompasses .
You can't seem to accept this point . It's ok to disagree , as long as you can replace your disagreement with a better understanding . Since your not willing to do that , I feel like from here on out I would just be dragging you unwillingly through what I want to share with you .

We can move forward only if you are in agreement with this fourth point or replace it with a better understanding , which would be to answer the question .

If you can't agree a verb is an act , based upon a belief , sustained by confidence , what is your definition of what a verb is and does ?

 

[Rosenritter]

I was taught with the gastault method for 30 years . This method throws alot of little truths at you and then at some point it hits you , the big truth . Maybe some of that has rubbed off on me .

You agreed with the first two points , the first being that pisteuo is used 248 times and is the corresponding verb to the noun pistis , and the second , that pisteuo means " NOT " just to believe , that it's a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender . I needed you to agree with the word the original writers used and the Greek dictionarys definition of the word , and you did . I rarely find anyone will agree with the second point but it's taken word for word from the Greek dictionary .

The third point , that the English language doesn't have a word, a verb form of the word Faith , like the Greek does for the word pistis , you reluctantly agreed at best .

We then went to my fourth point , what a verb is in its full expression . This may seem like a basic truth not worthy of looking at , but it's important to the structure having a right understanding of how a verb is used and what it encompasses .
You can't seem to accept this point . It's ok to disagree , as long as you can replace your disagreement with a better understanding . Since your not willing to do that , I feel like from here on out I would just be dragging you unwillingly through what I want to share with you .

We can move forward only if you are in agreement with this fourth point or replace it with a better understanding , which would be to answer the question .

If you can't agree a verb is an act , based upon a belief , sustained by confidence , what is your definition of what a verb is and does ?

Maybe try the other way around: state your premise or thesis statement, then briefly list any required support angles it requires?

 

[Faither]

Maybe try the other way around: state your premise or thesis statement, then briefly list any required support angles it requires?

One of the points that would have come out over time is that we see the Salvation process from Z to A , Z being what we want first . God on the other hand , sees the Salvation process from A to Z , A being what He wants first . So a request to start at the end a work backwards makes perfect sense . Unfortunately , the Salvation journey must be understood , fulfilled , and maintained , correctly , continuously , in the right order , and from the beginning as God sees it .

Being honest with ourselves is really the only requirement to start this journey to connect with Christ .

With respect , it doesn't bother you to stop this discussion on a point so obvious , even one with your intellect can't get around it ?

 

[Rosenritter]

One of the points that would have come out over time is that we see the Salvation process from Z to A , Z being what we want first . God on the other hand , sees the Salvation process from A to Z , A being what He wants first . So a request to start at the end a work backwards makes perfect sense . Unfortunately , the Salvation journey must be understood , fulfilled , and maintained , correctly , continuously , in the right order , and from the beginning as God sees it .

Being honest with ourselves is really the only requirement to start this journey to connect with Christ .

With respect , it doesn't bother you to stop this discussion on a point so obvious , even one with your intellect can't get around it ?

I didn't ask you to start at the end and work backwards, I asked if you could declare your thesis first and then build it up. For example, look at how the book of Genesis opens, "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth" and then it spends a chapter saying how God created the heavens and the earth. Then as it needs more detail it goes back to day six and explains that further.

It's a lot easier to see steps clearly if you know which direction you are supposed to be looking in the first place. If your endpoint is "the process of salvation proceeds along this path" then I can understand that, and I would expect that you would then want to name points on that path.

 

[Faither]

I didn't ask you to start at the end and work backwards, I asked if you could declare your thesis first and then build it up. For example, look at how the book of Genesis opens, "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth" and then it spends a chapter saying how God created the heavens and the earth. Then as it needs more detail it goes back to day six and explains that further.

It's a lot easier to see steps clearly if you know which direction you are supposed to be looking in the first place. If your endpoint is "the process of salvation proceeds along this path" then I can understand that, and I would expect that you would then want to name points on that path.

We started our discussion when you called me on the statement I made about the mistranslation of pisteuo . That is a very big part of what I'm presenting . I'm presenting the mistranslation of pisteuo and why , the correct translation of pisteuo , and how that correct translation is correctly used in the Salvation journey .

This is in the OP , do you want to continue with an answer to point 4 ? Or are we just distancing ourselves from that ?

 

[Rosenritter]

We started our discussion when you called me on the statement I made about the mistranslation of pisteuo . That is a very big part of what I'm presenting . I'm presenting the mistranslation of pisteuo and why , the correct translation of pisteuo , and how that correct translation is correctly used in the Salvation journey .

This is in the OP , do you want to continue with an answer to point 4 ? Or are we just distancing ourselves from that ?

I don't think this is an issue of mistranslation: using my translation I interpreted the same meaning that you did, as evidenced from even almost exact words used in my description. Does the salvation message you speak of depend on this word being mistranslated?

 

[Faither]

I don't think this is an issue of mistranslation: using my translation I interpreted the same meaning that you did, as evidenced from even almost exact words used in my description. Does the salvation message you speak of depend on this word being mistranslated?

I'll give you the point I was working for with identifying exactly what a verb is and does .

Satan , doesn't want to pervert the whole truth just enough of it to make it null and void . Now I don't know who is responsible for the English language not having the correct words for the translators , faithe , faither ,and faithing . That's anotherdeep discussion . But that fact still remains , the English language has no verb form of the noun Faith , and the translators had to find a word that would've as close as possible .

So , in my opinion , the translators having to choose the words believe , believer , and believing , only captured one third of what true pisteuo means . In fact they may have unknowingly simply translated that the word pisteuo was a verb , and only a part of what a verb is at that . That was a small point I was trying to share with you along the way of the 100 or more points I have waited for you . Most of have much greater importance .

So , is a mistranslation mean something has been translated completely wrong , or can it be considered a mistranslation if the intended communicative message has been lost ?

Of course believe , believing , and believer are a part of whole truth which is what we agreed on , " a personal surrender to Him , and a life inspired by such surrender ."

When the called out ones started to make believing the whole truth , it changed pisteuo 180 degrees .

If we are going any further , ide like to go back to point four and continue from there . Are you ok with that ?

 

[Faither]

I assume you get the connection on my point .
A verb being an act , based upon a belief , sustained by confidence , and translators choosing believe , believing , and believer to translate pisteuo .

 

[Rosenritter]

I'll give you the point I was working for with identifying exactly what a verb is and does .

Satan , doesn't want to pervert the whole truth just enough of it to make it null and void . Now I don't know who is responsible for the English language not having the correct words for the translators , faithe , faither ,and faithing . That's anotherdeep discussion . But that fact still remains , the English language has no verb form of the noun Faith , and the translators had to find a word that would've as close as possible .

So , in my opinion , the translators having to choose the words believe , believer , and believing , only captured one third of what true pisteuo means . In fact they may have unknowingly simply translated that the word pisteuo was a verb , and only a part of what a verb is at that . That was a small point I was trying to share with you along the way of the 100 or more points I have waited for you . Most of have much greater importance .

So , is a mistranslation mean something has been translated completely wrong , or can it be considered a mistranslation if the intended communicative message has been lost ?

Of course believe , believing , and believer are a part of whole truth which is what we agreed on , " a personal surrender to Him , and a life inspired by such surrender ."

When the called out ones started to make believing the whole truth , it changed pisteuo 180 degrees .

If we are going any further , ide like to go back to point four and continue from there . Are you ok with that ?

May we back up a bit? If you will forgive the question (please take no offense) why do you assume that the Greek language had the capacity or the words to correctly translate the meaning and intent of the Holy Spirit?

 

[Faither]

May we back up a bit? If you will forgive the question (please take no offense) why do you assume that the Greek language had the capacity or the words to correctly translate the meaning and intent of the Holy Spirit?

When did I say I assume that ?

 

[Faither]

Are you suggesting that the Holy Spirit was misinterpreted 248 times concerning pisteuo ?

 

[Rosenritter]

When did I say I assume that ?

Your question assumes that the Greek is absolutely correct. If the Greek is not guaranteed to be perfect and correct, why continue on a line of questioning about the translation of the Greek? Do you have a line of reasoning to support a belief that the Greek scriptures were capable of containing what was intended?

 

[Faither]

Your question assumes that the Greek is absolutely correct. If the Greek is not guaranteed to be perfect and correct, why continue on a line of questioning about the translation of the Greek? Do you have a line of reasoning to support a belief that the Greek scriptures were capable of containing what was intended?

Yes , but that encompasses a minimum of 10 years of teaching by one of the gifted teachers . And , that's with the Spirit of Christ already sealed in the one being taught .

You've already stated you didn't really need the Greek and that the English texts were good enough for you . This sounds like another way to say the same thing. Our discussion needs to begin at a solid premise .I thought we were doing that with the points I was presenting . When I asked you the question in point 4 , you regressed back to your original state of not acknowledging the Greek manuscripts .

I haven't asked you any questions about your understandings on Faith , faithing , and the Salvation process , what is it you stand on ?

 

[Rosenritter]

Yes , but that encompasses a minimum of 10 years of teaching by one of the gifted teachers . And , that's with the Spirit of Christ already sealed in the one being taught .

You've already stated you didn't really need the Greek and that the English texts were good enough for you . This sounds like another way to say the same thing. Our discussion needs to begin at a solid premise .I thought we were doing that with the points I was presenting . When I asked you the question in point 4 , you regressed back to your original state of not acknowledging the Greek manuscripts .

I haven't asked you any questions about your understandings on Faith , faithing , and the Salvation process , what is it you stand on ?

Why would you assume that I don't acknowledge the Greek manuscripts? I wanted to know why you accepted the Greek manuscripts, and why you would assume the Greek language could even contain the intended meaning. Your answer could be very useful. Would you have a different answer if I substituted "Hebrew" instead of "Greek?"

While you may not have asked questions about "faith" and "salvation" I think I may have preemptively answered somewhat on the previous thread, when I was defining faith and belief. It is probably in the location where I started pulling sample passages containing the word to demonstrate how I would build such a definition. I am not overly concerned with defining a "process" because our call is simple, to repent and believe:

Hebrews 12:1-2 KJV
(1) Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
(2) Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

If Jesus is truly the author and finisher of our faith, we don't need to overly concern ourselves with metaphysical details. His commands are not grievous (1 John 5:3) and if we repent and believe (Acts 16:30) the rest can fall into place. If I were to summarize his commands, I could say they were Love God, Love thy Neighbor, Love thy Enemies, Love one another, and Love Truth... or that we could distill this into a single word, LOVE.