ECT "PISTEUO", the secret of the universe....

[Rosenritter]

I liked your first line about the object of a persons Faith. It's crazy that pisteuo being from the Greek, almost a perfect language, is so hard to get people to understand. But Faith in Hebrew , one of the worst languages, paints a perfect picture in their two words for faith. "The running to the shelter of a mother bids wings," "And to lean on a staff with all your weight behind it." The object of our Faithing is Christ, "the staff", with all our weight behind it. And it's a hundred percent of our life we commit to Him, surrender to Him.

Why would Hebrew be one of the worst languages? Didn't God choose the Hebrew language for the early scriptures?

Rom 3:1-2 KJV
(1) What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
(2) Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

 

[Faither]

Why would Hebrew be one of the worst languages? Didn't God choose the Hebrew language for the early scriptures?

Rom 3:1-2 KJV
(1) What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
(2) Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

The Hebrew is one of the worst languages in regards to being translated into the English language .

The Greek is the most accurate language on the planet , and can be fairly accurately translated into the English language . IF ! The English has a word for them to use . With pisteuo , the English did not .

 

[Rosenritter]

The Hebrew is one of the worst languages in regards to being translated into the English language .

The Greek is the most accurate language on the planet , and can be fairly accurately translated into the English language . IF ! The English has a word for them to use . With pisteuo , the English did not .

William Tyndale said that the English language was remarkably suited for translation of the scriptures, comparing to Latin he said it was "100 times better suited for the Greek" and "1000 times better suited for the Hebrew." English seems to have Hebrew roots, as evidenced by word plays within Genesis that still translate into the English...

Gen 2:23 KJV
(23) And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

That word play makes sense in both Hebrew and English, but not in most other languages. It's not present in Korean, for example (and feel free to check other languages like Spanish or German or French.) So besides evidence that English may have some Hebrew roots, that's also the indication that Hebrew may have maintained some of its roots from the language that God spoke to Adam.

 

[Faither]

William Tyndale said that the English language was remarkably suited for translation of the scriptures, comparing to Latin he said it was "100 times better suited for the Greek" and "1000 times better suited for the Hebrew." English seems to have Hebrew roots, as evidenced by word plays within Genesis that still translate into the English...

Gen 2:23 KJV
(23) And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

That word play makes sense in both Hebrew and English, but not in most other languages. It's not present in Korean, for example (feel free to check other languages like German or French!) So besides evidence that English may have some Hebrew roots, there's also the indication that Hebrew may have maintained some of its roots from the language that God spoke to Adam.

Remember , were talking about one word translations . The Hebrew is alot of pictorial words which are awesome if your were to translate into a sentence or two . But to translate from Greek to English you couldn't do that. One word could only be used to translate another word .

What I'm presenting is that the English did not have the correct word to translate pisteuo , the verb form of Faith .

The Greek has pistis for the noun and pisteuo for the corresponding verb . The English however , has no corresponding verb to the noun Faith .

The Greek doesn't even have the word believe in it's language . Because they didn't leave room for a neutral or middle ground . One is either faithing ( pisteuo ) towards God , or faithing in reverse , ( apisteuo ) away from God .

Because the words believe , believing , and believer , are mistranslatied into the English language , they are by the same token when looked at in the English , mistranslatied back out of the English into the Greek.

This is why this is such a hard subject to tackle .

 

[Rosenritter]

Remember , were talking about one word translations . The Hebrew is alot of pictorial words which are awesome if your were to translate into a sentence or two . But to translate from Greek to English you couldn't do that. One word could only be used to translate another word .

What I'm presenting is that the English did not have the correct word to translate pisteuo , the verb form of Faith .

The Greek has pistis for the noun and pisteuo for the corresponding verb . The English however , has no corresponding verb to the noun Faith .

The Greek doesn't even have the word believe in it's language . Because they didn't leave room for a neutral or middle ground . One is either faithing ( pisteuo ) towards God , or faithing in reverse , ( apisteuo ) away from God .

Because the words believe , believing , and believer , are mistranslatied into the English language , they are by the same token when looked at in the English , mistranslatied back out of the English into the Greek.

This is why this is such a hard subject to tackle .

So if English is not one of the worst languages to translate from Hebrew, I understand you are focusing on a set of Greek words that we as English speakers are used to thinking of in terms of faith and belief. But the nature of translation is to translate something from one setting to another, it does not require a one-to-one equivalence between source and ending words and/or grammar. It is the idea (the spirit of the words) that must be successfully translated.

For example, someone might say that the word that they have for the "covering for a wheel" is badly translated into the English "tire" because it can also mean "to wear out" beside being the noun for the rubbery coating on your wheel. It doesn't need to be exactly the same, it needs to translate the intended meaning. I think that this is a similar case. If I understand the intended meaning from the English translation without need to resort to outside sources and commentaries that speaks well of the translation.

 

[Faither]

So if English is not one of the worst languages to translate from Hebrew, I understand you are focusing on a set of Greek words that we as English speakers are used to thinking of in terms of faith and belief. But the nature of translation is to translate something from one setting to another, it does not require a one-to-one equivalence between source and ending words and/or grammar. It is the idea (the spirit of the words) that must be successfully translated.

For example, someone might say that the word that they have for the "covering for a wheel" is badly translated into the English "tire" because it can also mean "to wear out" beside being the noun for the rubbery coating on your wheel. It doesn't need to be exactly the same, it needs to translate the intended meaning. I think that this is a similar case. If I understand the intended meaning from the English translation without need to resort to outside sources and commentaries that speaks well of the translation.

Also remembering , I didn't do the translating , and have no desire to discuss the intricacies of translation . I've already done much of that with the teacher I've had over the last 32 years .

This is why I started this discussion at a starting point , of where you would agree or disagree with 3 basic facts .

1) that pisteuo is the verb form of pistis , the noun . Used 248 times by the authors .

2) the exact Strongs and Vines definitions .

3) and that the English language has no word for the verb form of Faith as the Greek does .

This is what I need you to agree with to move forward with a discussion . These are not my opinions to be debated. This is simply the word the authors chose to communicate the act of faithing and the Scholars definitions of that word .
Your reply was that you were good with English translations . Did you want to rethink the 3 facts ?

 

[Rosenritter]

Also remembering , I didn't do the translating , and have no desire to discuss the intricacies of translation . I've already done much of that with the teacher I've had over the last 32 years .

This is why I started this discussion at a starting point , of where you would agree or disagree with 3 basic facts .

1) that pisteuo is the verb form of pistis , the noun . Used 248 times by the authors .

2) the exact Strongs and Vines definitions .

3) and that the English language has no word for the verb form of Faith as the Greek does .

This is what I need you to agree with to move forward with a discussion . These are not my opinions to be debated. This is simply the word the authors chose to communicate the act of faithing and the Scholars definitions of that word .
Your reply was that you were good with English translations . Did you want to rethink the 3 facts ?

From the other board, I accepted your points one and two and disagreed with point three. Verb forms of the noun faith would include "to have faith" or "live by faith" or even "believe."

 

[Faither]

From the other board, I accepted your points one and two and disagreed with point three. Verb forms of the noun faith would include "to have faith" or "live by faith" or even "believe."

Are you saying that the English language does have a corresponding verb form of the noun Faith ? I believe I just asked if you agreed if it did or not .

 

[Faither]

From the other board, I accepted your points one and two and disagreed with point three. Verb forms of the noun faith would include "to have faith" or "live by faith" or even "believe."

I've called them facts because we're talking about verifiable statements , but if you want to call them points I'm ok with that .

I know these points are elementary , but that is the kind of pushbach I've received concerning this issue over the past 20 years . So that's why for the sake of the discussion , establish these accepted points of reference .

Here are the the points again .

1 ) that pisteuo is the corresponding verb to the noun pistis . Used 248 times .

2 ) that these definitions are acceptable
Strongs : pisteuo means " NOT "just to believe but reliance upon , not mere credence .
committed unto , be committed unto , place confidence in ,

Vines : " a personal surrender to Him , and a life inspired by such surrender ".

3 ) that the English language has no corresponding verb for the noun Faith .

Are these 3 points acceptable to you ?

 

[Rosenritter]

Are you saying that the English language does have a corresponding verb form of the noun Faith ? I believe I just asked if you agreed if it did or not .

It may not have a direct conjugation, but English definitely does have a way of expressing how to exercise faith. In fact, I just used it there when I said "to exercise faith." Our language is is not deficient of the concept, else we wouldn't be able to talk to each other while understanding what we mean. I think we do understand and agree that faith can be exercised, don't we?

 

[Rosenritter]

I've called them facts because we're talking about verifiable statements , but if you want to call them points I'm ok with that .

I know these points are elementary , but that is the kind of pushbach I've received concerning this issue over the past 20 years . So that's why for the sake of the discussion , establish these accepted points of reference .

Here are the the points again .

1 ) that pisteuo is the corresponding verb to the noun pistis . Used 248 times .

2 ) that these definitions are acceptable
Strongs : pisteuo means " NOT "just to believe but reliance upon , not mere credence .
committed unto , be committed unto , place confidence in ,

Vines : " a personal surrender to Him , and a life inspired by such surrender ".

3 ) that the English language has no corresponding verb for the noun Faith .

Are these 3 points acceptable to you ?

No. Point one and two agreed, point three disagreed. "To have faith" or "to exercise faith" or "to show faith" or "to be justified by faith" is a verb form of faith. That's why we have those other words.

Question: do you think that the Holy Spirit thinks exclusively in Greek? Or did the Greek language come about after the Holy Spirit?

 

[Faither]

It may not have a direct conjugation, but English definitely does have a way of expressing how to exercise faith. In fact, I just used it there when I said "to exercise faith." Our language is is not deficient of the concept, else we wouldn't be able to talk to each other while understanding what we mean. I think we do understand and agree that faith can be exercised, don't we?

Lol , I'm just asking if you accept the point , that the English language does not have a corresponding verb for the noun Faith , like the Greek does for pistis .

I can tell your used to being 5 steps ahead of people with your thinking , but there is a reason for addressing each important step .

Are we in agreement on the first three points ?

 

[Faither]

No. Point one and two agreed, point three disagreed. "To have faith" or "to exercise faith" or "to show faith" or "to be justified by faith" is a verb form of faith. That's why we have those other words.

Question: do you think that the Holy Spirit thinks exclusively in Greek? Or did the Greek language come about after the Holy Spirit?

Those would be phrases , not specific words .

 

[Rosenritter]

Lol , I'm just asking if you accept the point , that the English language does not have a corresponding verb for the noun Faith , like the Greek does for pistis .

I can tell your used to being 5 steps ahead of people with your thinking , but there is a reason for addressing each important step .

Are we in agreement on the first three points ?

If the question is really just confirming that I don't have a "conjugated" (?) form of "faith" then I apologize for overthinking the question.

To demonstrate that I am trying to answer in good faith, "hit" and/or "hitting" would be an example like what you were searching for I take it. "Money" and "spending [money]" would not qualify according to your framed question? I'm confused why you are asking like this but just proceed on an assumed yes for now. I will suspend objections.

 

[Faither]

If the question is really just confirming that I don't have a "conjugated" (?) form of "faith" then I apologize for overthinking the question.

To demonstrate that I am trying to answer in good faith, "hit" and/or "hitting" would be an example like what you were searching for I take it. "Money" and "spending [money]" would not qualify according to your framed question? I'm confused why you are asking like this but just proceed on an assumed yes for now. I will suspend objections.

The words and verb form the noun Faith the English should have had for the translators are faithe , faither , and faithing . It was interesting as you were posting those phrases as examples of a verb form of Faith , I could relate them to each of those words .

Point 4 )

Would you agree , that a verb is first an action word . But in totality , a verb is an act , based upon a belief , sustained by confidence ?

 

[Rosenritter]

The words and verb form the noun Faith the English should have had for the translators are faithe , faither , and faithing . It was interesting as you were posting those phrases as examples of a verb form of Faith , I could relate them to each of those words .

Point 4 )

Would you agree , that a verb is first an action word . But in totality , a verb is an act , based upon a belief , sustained by confidence ?

No, that would go against the definition of the word "verb" ... I might be able to agree on an instance example of what you are thinking of but when you convert a verb into a thing it becomes a type of noun, like a gerund.

ger·und
/ˈjerənd/
noun
GRAMMAR

a form that is derived from a verb but that functions as a noun, in English ending in -ing, e.g., asking in do you mind my asking you?

I am confused now because I don't think you really are trying to communicate fine points of English grammar, but since you're asking me the questions in yes or no (agree or disagree) style that's how I understand your question.

 

[Faither]

No, that would go against the definition of the word "verb" ... I might be able to agree on an instance example of what you are thinking of but when you convert a verb into a thing it becomes a type of noun, like a gerund.




I am confused now because I don't think you really are trying to communicate fine points of English grammar, but since you're asking me the questions in yes or no (agree or disagree) style that's how I understand your question.

Ok , how would you define what the definition of a verb is ?

Remembering , the corresponding verb , corresponds to a noun in this instance .

 

[Rosenritter]

Ok , how would you define what the definition of a verb is ?

Remembering , the corresponding verb , corresponds to a noun in this instance .

A verb acts.

 

[Faither]

A verb acts.

Right , a verb is an action word . Do you agree , a verb is an "act ," based upon a belief , sustained by confidence ?

 

[Cross Reference]

Right , a verb is an action word . Do you agree , a verb is an "act ," based upon a belief , sustained by confidence ?

Confidence in what now becomes the question, doesn't it?