Paul: "The Just (Justified) Shall Live By Faith" and not by rules, laws or religion

[Robert Pate]

Paul: "The Just (Justified) Shall Live By Faith" and not by rules, laws or religion

If you are living by rules, laws, or religion, you are NOT living by faith. Rules, laws and religion are about you and what you are doing, it is subjective. Those that are living by faith are living by what God has done in his Son Jesus Christ, it is objective (outside of us)

The object of our faith is always God and his Son Jesus Christ. It is not in ourselves who are sinners. Paul said,

"We don't preach ourselves, we preach Jesus Christ our Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus sake" 2 Corinthians 4:5.

There is no power in the law. The law cannot save, nor can the law produce obedience. What the law will do is cause you to sin and become a hypocrite.

"But sin taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. FOR WITHOUT THE LAW SIN WAS DEAD" Romans 7:8.

If you are living by laws and rules you are not living according to the Gospel. In the Gospel Jesus fulfills the law for us and then abolishes it.

"Blotting out (abolishing) the handwriting of the ordinances (the law) that was against us, WHICH WAS CONTRARY TO US and took it out of the way by nailing it to his cross" Colossians 2:14.

It was contrary to us because no one could keep it or do it. It is not humanly possible to keep or to do the law. The law demands that you love your neighbor as yourself, Leviticus 19:18. This means that you should sell all that you have and give it to the poor, Matthew 19:21. The rich young ruler failed there and you will also fail there. To say that you are keeping the law when you are not, is to make yourself a hypocrite.

Christians are not called to live by rules and laws, we are called to live by the Spirit of Jesus Christ. To be led by the Spirit is to be led by the Gospel. The Gospel is the means by which we have been justified. Jesus, in our name and on our behalf, justifies us, Romans 3:26. Jesus in our name and on our behalf offers to God the Father a life of perfect obedience according to his Holy Law. It is this life and not our life that God accepts for our justification and salvation. God does not accept the works or the obedience of sinners. God only accepts the works and the obedience of Jesus Christ. This is why Paul said,

"That I might be found in him, NOT HAVING MY OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS OF THE LAW, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness WHICH IS OF GOD BY FAITH" Philippians 3:9.

There it is. Righteousness is not of the law. What the law does is it reveals sin, "For by the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:20.and not righteousness. You should know that you cannot do or keep the law because the law is telling you that you are a sinner. To live thinking that you are keeping the law is to live as a hypocrite.

 

[Jacob]

If you are living by rules, laws, or religion, you are NOT living by faith. Rules, laws and religion are about you and what you are doing, it is subjective. Those that are living by faith are living by what God has done in his Son Jesus Christ, it is objective (outside of us)

The object of our faith is always God and his Son Jesus Christ. It is not in ourselves who are sinners. Paul said,

"We don't preach ourselves, we preach Jesus Christ our Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus sake" 2 Corinthians 4:5.
There is no power in the law. The law cannot save, nor can the law produce obedience. What the law will do is cause you to sin and become a hypocrite.

"But sin taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. FOR WITHOUT THE LAW SIN WAS DEAD" Romans 7:8.

If you are living by laws and rules you are not living according to the Gospel. In the Gospel Jesus fulfills the law for us and then abolishes it.

"Blotting out (abolishing) the handwriting of the ordinances (the law) that was against us, WHICH WAS CONTRARY TO US and took it out of the way by nailing it to his cross" Colossians 2:14.


It was contrary to us because no one could keep it or do it. It is not humanly possible to keep or to do the law. The law demands that you love your neighbor as yourself, Leviticus 19:18. This means that you should sell all that you have and give it to the poor, Matthew 19:21. The rich young ruler failed there and you will also fail there. To say that you are keeping the law when you are not, is to make yourself a hypocrite.

Christians are not called to live by rules and laws, we are called to live by the Spirit of Jesus Christ. To be led by the Spirit is to be led by the Gospel. The Gospel is the means by which we have been justified. Jesus, in our name and on our behalf, justifies us, Romans 3:26. Jesus in our name and on our behalf offers to God the Father a life of perfect obedience according to his Holy Law. It is this life and not our life that God accepts for our justification and salvation. God does not accept the works or the obedience of sinners. God only accepts the works and the obedience of Jesus Christ. This is why Paul said,

"That I might be found in him, NOT HAVING MY OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS OF THE LAW, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness WHICH IS OF GOD BY FAITH" Philippians 3:9.

There it is. Righteousness is not of the law. What the law does is it reveals sin, "For by the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:20.and not righteousness. You should know that you cannot do or keep the law because the law is telling you that you are a sinner. To live thinking that you are keeping the law is to live as a hypocrite.

I am a Jew. The New Covenant is for the house of Israel and the house of Judah. It is God's law written on minds and hearts.

To believe that you are keeping the law is different from pretending that you are or saying that you are when you are not.

I read, study, observe, keep, and teach the Law, Torah. Jesus observed and taught the Law. I do as well. I have accepted His instruction to keep and teach the commandments, as for me.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[Robert Pate]

I am a Jew. The New Covenant is for the house of Israel and the house of Judah. It is God's law written on minds and hearts.

To believe that you are keeping the law is different from pretending that you are or saying that you are when you are not.

I read, study, observe, keep, and teach the Law, Torah. Jesus observed and taught the Law. I do as well. I have accepted His instruction to keep and teach the commandments, as for me.

Shalom.

Jacob

Your religion is obsolete, decaying, waxing old and is passing away, Hebrews 8:13.

 

[Jacob]

Your religion is obsolete, decaying, waxing old and is passing away, Hebrews 8:13.

Not if religion is God's law. The new covenant is for the house of Israel and the house of Judah. It is God's law written on minds and hearts. Have you considered this in your thinking? I do not believe that God's Law is religion. I see nothing wrong with the proper use of the term religion. Religion, or works, do not bring about salvation. Religion, serving others, your practice, what you do, is important to God.

 

[Robert Pate]

Not if religion is God's law. The new covenant is for the house of Israel and the house of Judah. It is God's law written on minds and hearts. Have you considered this in your thinking? I do not believe that God's Law is religion. I see nothing wrong with the proper use of the term religion. Religion, or works, do not bring about salvation. Religion, serving others, your practice, what you do, is important to God.

Jacob, you never have scripture that supports your beliefs.

The words "Law" and "religion" mean the same thing. When you are doing the law, you are doing religion.

The Jewish religion has been abolished by Jesus Christ. The new way to live is not by the law. The new way to live is by the Spirit of Jesus, which is much higher and much better, Hebrews 8:6. The New Covenant is not more rules and laws. The new Covenant is Jesus himself. Jesus is the savior and redeemer of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. Jesus is the one that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5. Jesus is the one that reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. In Jesus Christ we have been justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30. Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus we can stand in God's holy court complete in him, Colossians 2:10.

 

[Jacob]

Jacob, you never have scripture that supports your beliefs.

The words "Law" and "religion" mean the same thing. When you are doing the law, you are doing religion.

The Jewish religion has been abolished by Jesus Christ. The new way to live is not by the law. The new way to live is by the Spirit of Jesus, which is much higher and much better, Hebrews 8:6. The New Covenant is not more rules and laws. The new Covenant is Jesus himself. Jesus is the savior and redeemer of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. Jesus is the one that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5. Jesus is the one that reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. In Jesus Christ we have been justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30. Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus we can stand in God's holy court complete in him, Colossians 2:10.

Both the words Law and religion are found in the Bible. There is also God's Law and man's religion. Which would you rather have? Must you have one or the other? If you say God's Law is that proof that God's Law still exists?

Saying I never have scripture that supports my beliefs is not true. If you do not know about serving others being the definition of religion from the Bible, then you do not know what I am referring to. I believe that people have said this.

My question for you is if the new covenant has any law associated with it. The new covenant is for the house of Israel and the house of Judah. It is God's law written on minds and hearts. If you do not know about God's Law how can you know about God's law written on minds and hearts? If you do know about it, what are you thinking of God's law if you believe that the new covenant does not involve God's law? Do you understand that you are speaking of the new covenant but you are speaking against God's law? Can you quote here from Jeremiah about the new covenant? If you can't, would you accept it if I do?

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[Robert Pate]

Both the words Law and religion are found in the Bible. There is also God's Law and man's religion. Which would you rather have? Must you have one or the other? If you say God's Law is that proof that God's Law still exists?

Saying I never have scripture that supports my beliefs is not true. If you do not know about serving others being the definition of religion from the Bible, then you do not know what I am referring to. I believe that people have said this.

My question for you is if the new covenant has any law associated with it. The new covenant is for the house of Israel and the house of Judah. It is God's law written on minds and hearts. If you do not know about God's Law how can you know about God's law written on minds and hearts? If you do know about it, what are you thinking of God's law if you believe that the new covenant does not involve God's law? Do you understand that you are speaking of the new covenant but you are speaking against God's law? Can you quote here from Jeremiah about the new covenant? If you can't, would you accept it if I do?

Shalom.

Jacob

The New Covenant is for Christians, both Jew and Gentile.

There are no rules or laws in the New Covenant.

In the New Covenant "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Romans 1:17, faith in Jesus Christ.

Living by faith means to live according to the Gospel. In the Gospel Jesus justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

We stand before God as perfect and complete in Jesus Christ, Colossians 2:10. Jesus does for us what the law could never do. He perfects us by doing for us that which we cannot do for ourselves.

 

[Jacob]

The New Covenant is for Christians, both Jew and Gentile.

There are no rules or laws in the New Covenant.

In the New Covenant "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Romans 1:17, faith in Jesus Christ.

Living by faith means to live according to the Gospel. In the Gospel Jesus justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

We stand before God as perfect and complete in Jesus Christ, Colossians 2:10. Jesus does for us what the law could never do. He perfects us by doing for us that which we cannot do for ourselves.

Jeremiah 31:31-34 NKJV - 31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah-- 32 "not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the LORD. 33 "But this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 "No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."

 

[Robert Pate]

Jeremiah 31:31-34 NKJV - 31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah-- 32 "not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the LORD. 33 "But this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 "No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."

Jeremiah was speaking about the Holy Spirit that indwells Christians. It is the Spirit of Jesus and not the letter of the law.

 

[Jacob]

Jeremiah was speaking about the Holy Spirit that indwells Christians. It is the Spirit of Jesus and not the letter of the law.

Is the law of Christ the rule of Christ?

What is God's law?

What is the Law of God? What is God's Law?

Are you confused about God's law because of the law of Christ?

Are you saying that the Holy Spirit that indwells Christians (you say that this is what Jeremiah was speaking about) is God's law? Are you saying that God's law is only for the house of Israel and the house of Judah?

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[Robert Pate]

Is the law of Christ the rule of Christ?

What is God's law?

What is the Law of God? What is God's Law?

Are you confused about God's law because of the law of Christ?

Are you saying that the Holy Spirit that indwells Christians (you say that this is what Jeremiah was speaking about) is God's law? Are you saying that God's law is only for the house of Israel and the house of Judah?

Shalom.

Jacob

We only have the "First Fruits" or the down payment of the Holy Spirit, Romans 8:23. This is why we are sinners. The law is the nature and character of God. Sin is the transgression of God's nature and character. This is why Paul said, "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10.

 

[Jacob]

We only have the "First Fruits" or the down payment of the Holy Spirit, Romans 8:23. This is why we are sinners. The law is the nature and character of God. Sin is the transgression of God's nature and character. This is why Paul said, "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10.

There is no excuse for being a sinner. Being a sinner does not excuse you from God's Holy, Right, and Just Judgment. The Holy Spirit is not why you are a sinner. Are you saying that you are still a sinner because you only have the "First Fruits" of the Spirit? I do not see this as a down payment nor do I know that you know what a down payment is. You say that sin is a transgression of God's nature and character. The Bible says that sin is the transgression of the law.

transgression law

Romans 4:15 NKJV - because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law [there is] no transgression.

1 John 3:4 KJV - Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

1 John 3:4 NKJV - Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.

 

[Robert Pate]

There is no excuse for being a sinner. Being a sinner does not excuse you from God's Holy, Right, and Just Judgment. The Holy Spirit is not why you are a sinner. Are you saying that you are still a sinner because you only have the "First Fruits" of the Spirit? I do not see this as a down payment nor do I know that you know what a down payment is. You say that sin is a transgression of God's nature and character. The Bible says that sin is the transgression of the law.

transgression law

Romans 4:15 NKJV - because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law [there is] no transgression.

1 John 3:4 KJV - Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

1 John 3:4 NKJV - Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.

You are not a sinner by choice, Romans 5:12. God's law is the nature and character of God. Are you as righteous as God? If not then you are a sinner, just like Paul said that you were, Romans 3:23.

Romans 4:15 is good scripture and a good reason not to be under the law.

 

[Jacob]

You are not a sinner by choice, Romans 5:12. God's law is the nature and character of God. Are you as righteous as God? If not then you are a sinner, just like Paul said that you were, Romans 3:23.

Romans 4:15 is good scripture and a good reason not to be under the law.

Romans 5:12 says because all sinned. Sin is a choice. Who sinned? All. Each and every person. The only exception is Jesus Christ.

You are not giving a valid interpretation of Romans 4:15.

Romans 3:23 says that all have sinned.

 

[Robert Pate]

Romans 5:12 says because all sinned. Sin is a choice. Who sinned? All. Each and every person. The only exception is Jesus Christ.

You are not giving a valid interpretation of Romans 4:15.

Romans 3:23 says that all have sinned.

The law brings WRATH, Romans 4:15. Why in the world do you want to be under the law?

 

[Jacob]

The law brings WRATH, Romans 4:15. Why in the world do you want to be under the law?

I do not see any reason to not obey God. There is no good reason to not obey God. We are not to have a reason to not obey God.

I thought you were talking about how there is no law so there is no transgression.

I do not know what you are asking me by saying something about why in the world would I want to be under the law. The law is good. I am not under the law. Now, can I observe God's Law or do you want to take that away from me? Do you believe that as a Jew I can observe God's law written on my mind and heart in the new covenant, but not the Law of Moses? Help me to understand your view. How can you have God's law without God's Law?

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[glorydaz]

I do not see any reason to not obey God. There is no good reason to not obey God. We are not to have a reason to not obey God.

I thought you were talking about how there is no law so there is no transgression.

I do not know what you are asking me by saying something about why in the world would I want to be under the law. The law is good. I am not under the law. Now, can I observe God's Law or do you want to take that away from me? Do you believe that as a Jew I can observe God's law written on my mind and heart in the new covenant, but not the Law of Moses? Help me to understand your view. How can you have God's law without God's Law?

Shalom.

Jacob

If you were truly a Jew, you'd answer one way.

If you were a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ and his work on the Cross, you'd answer another way.

As it stands, you can't really answer or understand what Scripture is saying.

 

[Jacob]

If you were truly a Jew, you'd answer one way.

If you were a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ and his work on the Cross, you'd answer another way.

As it stands, you can't really answer or understand what Scripture is saying.

When a Christian believes in the New Covenant and becomes a Jew who observes the Torah, does He also observe or believe in the New Covenant or does He only then observe or believe in the New Covenant or would it have been better for him if he only observes or believes the New Covenant? I do not know in my life if I learned or knew about the new covenant before the Law of Moses.

I stated that I obey God. Then I dealt with if I obey or observe God's Law. I obey God's commandments. I obey the commandments of Jesus. In obeying Jesus' commandments I am obeying God's commandments. In following His instruction to keep and teach the commandments I am observing, obeying, keeping the Law, Torah. I do not see any other way to interpret Matthew 5:18 NASB.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[glorydaz]

When a Christian believes in the New Covenant and becomes a Jew who observes the Torah, does He also observe or believe in the New Covenant or does He only then observe or believe in the New Covenant or would it have been better for him if he only observes or believes the New Covenant? I do not know in my life if I learned or knew about the new covenant before the Law of Moses.

I stated that I obey God. Then I dealt with if I obey or observe God's Law. I obey God's commandments. I obey the commandments of Jesus. In obeying Jesus' commandments I am obeying God's commandments. In following His instruction to keep and teach the commandments I am observing, obeying, keeping the Law, Torah. I do not see any other way to interpret Matthew 5:18 NASB.

Shalom.

Jacob

You claim you keep all of God's Laws, and yet we know Jesus is the only ONE to actually do so. You are not Jesus, are you? I'm sure you know you aren't. So, when you attempt to keep the whole law, you are required to keep all of it without offending in even one point. THAT is the problem with the Law.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.​

The fact is that the PURPOSE of the LAW was NEVER meant to make men righteous. It was NEVER meant to justify any man. It was NEVER meant to give LIFE. Since you refuse to understand the PURPOSE of the Law, and attempt to keep the Law, you are not subjecting yourself to the very RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD.

Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.​

In your desire to keep the Law, as the Jews did, you are REFUSING to submit to the very RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD.....what God requires, which is faith. The obedience of Faith is how we submit to the Righteousness of God. In other words, you are out of submission to God by putting obedience to the Law above Faith in God.

 

[Jacob]

You claim you keep all of God's Laws, and yet we know Jesus is the only ONE to actually do so. You are not Jesus, are you? I'm sure you know you aren't. So, when you attempt to keep the whole law, you are required to keep all of it without offending in even one point. THAT is the problem with the Law.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.​

The fact is that the PURPOSE of the LAW was NEVER meant to make men righteous. It was NEVER meant to justify any man. It was NEVER meant to give LIFE. Since you refuse to understand the PURPOSE of the Law, and attempt to keep the Law, you are not subjecting yourself to the very RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD.

Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.​

In your desire to keep the Law, as the Jews did, you are REFUSING to submit to the very RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD.....what God requires, which is faith. The obedience of Faith is how we submit to the Righteousness of God. In other words, you are out of submission to God by putting obedience to the Law above Faith in God.

I do not do this. I have faith in God. My obedience is the result or outcome of my faith. I obey in faith. I obey because of faith. The question is if faith is obedience and if faith is a result, product, or outcome, of the Spirit of God or the work of the Spirit of God or the work of the Spirit of God in the believer or in the life of the believer.

There is no problem with the Law.

I can tell you that I recognize that there are commandments that I do not keep. But there are commandments that I keep that others do not. It is of no consequence. I experience or receive blessing in keeping God's commandments, though criticized by others for doing so, but however I know that I am not saved, justified, or sanctified by doing so or by so doing.

Shalom.

Jacob