ECT Our triune God

[sholom]

I disagree Apple I think that nothead/IP Man/kutkim has reincarnated as sholom...I could be wrong but, either user could fit the bill, same nonsense theology, same nonsense jibberish posts.

I see yore award there, filibuster. But I never see yore truthsmakin'.

Howcumthatis?

I say Father HELP and he does!

Oh, it must be yore part of that Skull and Bones Society!

 

[Pierac]

What does $20K have to do with anything?:baby:

More babbling I see? It would appear... No one has died... ? And what does Moroni, the capital of Comoros on the Grande Comore island have to do with anything? Your just giving all of us... bad images of you being a promiscuous uneducated guy with something in his hand...

Paul

Stop playing with that in your hand! Your moms upstairs dude!

 

[rocketman]

I see yore award there, filibuster. But I never see yore truthsmakin'.

Howcumthatis?

I say Father HELP and he does!

Oh, it must be yore part of that Skull and Bones Society!

Smacked you round plenty already nothead, back for more? Nobody here buys into your unitarian bogus cult anyway...:carryon:

 

[Apple7]

I disagree Apple I think that nothead/IP Man/kutkim has reincarnated as sholom...I could be wrong but, either user could fit the bill, same nonsense theology, same nonsense jibberish posts.

Yeah…just look at how he has debased himself down to a blithering idiot….he’s almost completely incomprehensible now…lol…

 

[sholom]

Yeah…just look at how he has debased himself down to a blithering idiot….he’s almost completely incomprehensible now…lol…

That's because I'm really not here. Not arguing or debating.
We are just having fun since no one will do what Lon asked in his OP.

No one wants to expound on the incomprehensible trinity. Wonder why.

Not a single post yet. Rocketman? Time to truthsmack each other into shape.

Pierac owns all of you. And Gill White forgot more scripture than any of you know. But that's neither here nor there on this thread, so carry on. Don't let me distract.

 

[Lon]

All that education and $40,000 and you still cannot read. It is not me with the problem Lon, I never said I despised education. That makes you stupid or a liar. I give you the benefit of the doubt, you not a liar.

You have a hard time saying it? Probably me too but I am thinking it. It would seem we haven't a lot of esteem for one another. I come from a place where the educated in every other area does better than the none educated. You think there is an exception. You make far too many comments for me to believe you don't despise education, especially when it comes to theology where somebody more educated than you could steer you back in the right direction.
Just admit it to me and yourself. You are happy with yourself right now whether you are right or wrong. In fact, you are so happy you don't care. It feels right and that's simply enough for you. Admit it at least to yourself. You don't have to admit it to me at all.

 

[Lon]

Your just giving all of us... bad images of you being a promiscuous uneducated guy with something in his hand...


Paul

Honestly? Mine was an honest position. You went ahead and made it something slanderous and purposefully knowing it not true at all or at least doubting very much it was true. You must love him an awful lot.
I view him far below most historical figures I've been introduced to.

There is only room for one being on top of my church (not two) and we seem to have picked different ones that are most important to us.
Where is He in your church? Shoved in a corner? Why are you even here when He's at the top for us and in the basement with you guys? It doesn't seem like you have a lot of vested interest in Him.

 

[Lon]

Stop playing with that in your hand! Your moms upstairs dude!

Not a godly one among you apparently.
From the heart, the mouth speaks.

 

[Apple7]

That's because I'm really not here. Not arguing or debating.
We are just having fun since no one will do what Lon asked in his OP.

No one wants to expound on the incomprehensible trinity. Wonder why.

Not a single post yet. Rocketman? Time to truthsmack each other into shape.

Pierac owns all of you. And Gill White forgot more scripture than any of you know. But that's neither here nor there on this thread, so carry on. Don't let me distract.

No, derowr.

Neither of these individuals can even tell us what they think the Trinity is...they just reject it out-of-hand...this is what they have in common with you...ignorance.

Oatmeal took a stab at defining the Trinity - failed miserably - and now left the forum to review his error....likewise with Christnow,etc, etc...

Regardless, all of these individuals can at least put together a coherent sentence far above what you can do. You come across as being the hillbilly of the uni's.

 

[meshak]

You have a hard time saying it? Probably me too but I am thinking it. It would seem we haven't a lot of esteem for one another. I come from a place where the educated in every other area does better than the none educated. You think there is an exception. You make far too many comments for me to believe you don't despise education, especially when it comes to theology where somebody more educated than you could steer you back in the right direction.
Just admit it to me and yourself. You are happy with yourself right now whether you are right or wrong. In fact, you are so happy you don't care. It feels right and that's simply enough for you. Admit it at least to yourself. You don't have to admit it to me at all.

Friend,

You paid too much for man-made organization and doctrines. If you are true Christian, the Holy Spirit will lead you to the whole truth what you need to know about God and Jesus and their commandments and teachings.

You don't seem to have much faith in the Holy Spirit. You have to much faith in your organization, instead of God.

 

[meshak]

Not a godly one among you apparently.
From the heart, the mouth speaks.

Oh? approving to kill you enemy is godly?

 

[sholom]

No, derowr.

Neither of these individuals can even tell us what they think the Trinity is...they just reject it out-of-hand...this is what they have in common with you...ignorance.

Oatmeal took a stab at defining the Trinity - failed miserably - and now left the forum to review his error....likewise with Christnow,etc, etc...

Regardless, all of these individuals can at least put together a coherent sentence far above what you can do. You come across as being the hillbilly of the uni's.

I may not be as reeefined as you and hairlessmano but I had three major arguments which none of you ever rebutted in any way shape or form. Except by changing the subject to my so-called lack of Greek, name calling, or hillbilly hickness.

Then you call me dewowr whoever that is who has been banned? or somesuch. Trying to get me in trouble, loveapples?

These are the three:

1) Regarding the LOGOS, which had historically and always meant
the spoken oracle or plan of YHWH, how can this word now mean in addition another YHWH? Who has another mind and will? That is, Jesus being the LOGOS incarnate and the LOGOS at the same time being the plan or spoken word of YHWH is not compatible.

Only Hairlessmano even admitted that there was a problem here. He said to take it by faith, since it is a mystery. Maybe you can solve this one, Apple 7. Please try, for it is a building block question which previously lead me to Arianism.

2) Regarding the Echad of the Adonai, if this is one of unity, as you claim, Apple, then 2 immediate voids become evident logically and historically.
The first, how is it that the Jews never became polytheist? There are some trins out there who claim this question is moot, because the Jews HAVE ALWAYS BEEN gnostically, amorphously polytheist.
But I have to vehemently disagree. Please present your position here, Apple since it is a hugh void which keeps raising it's ugly head.
The second, how is it that this 'unity' has never been defined,
since the TRUE interpretation of 'echad' is 'unity' not 'uniqueness and/or numerical one-beingness.' The Jews believed the true interpretation was 'unity' but never found out or wondered or speculated even or was told in scripture WHAT this unity is?

There is nothing in Torah to indicate your position, Apple. You have
bent the meaning to fit your trinity paradigm. This is obvious and also dishonest in respect to ignoring the facts in history. In reality there is no speculation on any theoretical UNITY if God is numerically alone and one. Unity of what in this case? His already 'unifiedness?'

This void or lack of substance is also very evident to the truth seeker.

Especially in regards to this one thing: If YHWH is a UNITY of one and NOT a number of one, then WHY is this not definitively established? Because 'echad' just means 'one' as in English. God wants us to know his UNITY but not that he is numerically ONE? Yet never expounds to Abraham Moses or Jacob?

The facts are that YHWH explains His NUMERICAL oneness over and over in Torah. And you dishonest trins gloss over these verses every time. STANDING ALONE, NO ONE BESIDE HIM. Etcetera, etcetera.

3) If the Adonai AND the Eloyhim have always been referring to a plural God, since these terms for YHWH are plural in grammatical form, then the same questions will immediately arise. Why are the
Jews not polytheist?

I have pointed out emphatically that without the hypostatic union,
BY DEFINITION a plural God is polytheism.

YOU Apple 7 are thus put into a logistical corner with no way out.

And I will state what I THINK your position is, please correct me if I am wrong.

1) The Jews are basically retarded. They knew God to be plural in an amorphous way, never defined. They never bothered to try to define
YHWH. The faithful remnant would not find out until 8000 years after YHWH told them He was ONE. That this ONE was of unity and not of number. This contradicts their majority view, but what of it?

They have always been retarded. Never seeing or hearing. Never understanding. That the simple grammatical form of Adonai and Eloyhim is the REAL plural meaning of YHWH.

In other words, they have always been monotheist BY MISTAKE.

2) It took some astute GENTILES to set the retarded JEWS on the right path. You know, the ones who ponied under the great CONSTANTINE emperor of Rome? The one who worshiped the Sun God?

Come back Loveapples.

Checkmate. And that don't mean sex, Loveapples.

 

[Lon]

I may not be as reeefined as you and hairlessmano but I had three major arguments which none of you ever rebutted in any way shape or form. Except by changing the subject to my so-called lack of Greek, name calling, or hillbilly hickness.

Hillbilly is a lot less offensive than effeminate or 'ladyboy' in South America.
Out of the heart the mouth speaks.

Then you call me dewowr whoever that is who has been banned? or somesuch. Trying to get me in trouble, loveapples?

Mistaking you for somebody else is not the same as calling rude names...

These are the three:

1) Regarding the LOGOS, which had historically and always meant
the spoken oracle or plan of YHWH, how can this word now mean in addition another YHWH? Who has another mind and will? That is, Jesus being the LOGOS incarnate and the LOGOS at the same time being the plan or spoken word of YHWH is not compatible.

Already answered:
1) John said with and was God. You don't need to argue that with me, just let me know once you've actually wrestled with God over this. Your argument is with him.

Only Hairlessmano even admitted that there was a problem here. He said to take it by faith, since it is a mystery. Maybe you can solve this one, Apple 7. Please try, for it is a building block question which previously lead me to Arianism.

As I said, at the least, the very least, it is calling me a hairless monkey. At the worst, and along with all of the other nicknames you've chosen for people on here, they tend to mean homosexual in derogatory manner.

2) Regarding the Echad of the Adonai, if this is one of unity, as you claim, Apple, then 2 immediate voids become evident logically and historically.
The first, how is it that the Jews never became polytheist? There are some trins out there who claim this question is moot, because the Jews HAVE ALWAYS BEEN gnostically, amorphously polytheist.

Were they all? or just the ones you associate with doctrinally who rejected messiah? Was David against the idea when He penned "...the Lord said to my Lord..." Think, don't just hate. What does it mean? Forget about how much you despise me. Just listen to what God is saying. If I'm wrong, okay, prove it.

The second, how is it that this 'unity' has never been defined,
since the TRUE interpretation of 'echad' is 'unity' not 'uniqueness and/or numerical one-beingness.' The Jews believed the true interpretation was 'unity' but never found out or wondered or speculated even or was told in scripture WHAT this unity is?

Well look: Genesis 1:1

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Col 1:16 For all things were created in Him, the things in the heavens, and the things on the earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers, all things were created through Him and for Him.
Col 1:17 And He is before all things, and by Him all things consist.

Don't tell me your logic (what you "think" it says "IF" there were other verses). Don't "Write" scripture for me here. Just tell me what it says.
God did not tell you to write more verses in scripture for Him. If He needed them, He would have given them already. Now tell me what He says (not what you want Him to say, or think He would say).

There is nothing in Torah to indicate your position, Apple. You have
bent the meaning to fit your trinity paradigm. This is obvious and also dishonest in respect to ignoring the facts in history. In reality there is no speculation on any theoretical UNITY if God is numerically alone and one. Unity of what in this case? His already 'unifiedness?'

I repeat, if you want the Jews on top of your temple, put them there. There is no need to talk to us here because that is a different faith from us. We put Jesus on the top. The Jews rejected Him. If you are here just to fight between Christian and Jew, that's a different thread. This one is about Jesus as God.

This void or lack of substance is also very evident to the truth seeker.

Is it, or are you only reading the Old Testament and not liking the Gospels and Epistles?

Especially in regards to this one thing: If YHWH is a UNITY of one and NOT a number of one, then WHY is this not definitively established? Because 'echad' just means 'one' as in English. God wants us to know his UNITY but not that he is numerically ONE? Yet never expounds to Abraham Moses or Jacob?

Good question. Just embrace the question like the rest of us. We don't want to answer it. This is God's answer alone, not man's. That's the bottom line: We don't want anything man-made answering that question for us. The possibility that you are wrong far outweighs leaving it a question.

The facts are that YHWH explains His NUMERICAL oneness over and over in Torah. And you dishonest trins gloss over these verses every time. STANDING ALONE, NO ONE BESIDE HIM. Etcetera, etcetera.

Not at all. We believe very much the same as you do. We just leave open that Thomas calls Jesus His Lord and God.
It is an open question only to be answered by Him. He opened the door and you, a man, want to close it? Now who do we follow? You or Him?

3) If the Adonai AND the Eloyhim have always been referring to a plural God, since these terms for YHWH are plural in grammatical form, then the same questions will immediately arise. Why are the
Jews not polytheist?

Some actually have spoken about this and the mystery of it. Why are you only quoting those who rejected? You really must make up your mind: You will either be a Jew or a Christian, not both.

I have pointed out emphatically that without the hypostatic union,
BY DEFINITION a plural God is polytheism.

No, wrong. Listen: Dolly the sheep is one sheep yet exists as two. She was cloned. The material for the 'second' is all Dolly. They used her DNA and her egg to make a whole other sheep but they are the same exact sheep. There is only one Dolly, but she exists as two separate things and both are somehow just her. God is One. How is that possible? I don't know, I just know that Thomas somehow calls Jesus God, believed there was only one, and somehow he is okay with that. John says that the Word that became flesh and dwelled with us both was with and was God.

YOU Apple 7 are thus put into a logistical corner with no way out.

And I will state what I THINK your position is, please correct me if I am wrong.

1) The Jews are basically retarded. They knew God to be plural in an amorphous way, never defined. They never bothered to try to define
YHWH. The faithful remnant would not find out until 8000 years after YHWH told them He was ONE. That this ONE was of unity and not of number. This contradicts their majority view, but what of it?

Some did, but the majority rejected the Messiah. You are trying to keep one foot with those who rejected Him and perhaps trying to love Jesus at the same time.

They have always been retarded. Never seeing or hearing. Never understanding. That the simple grammatical form of Adonai and Eloyhim is the REAL plural meaning of YHWH.

Some truth there, you are almost quoting Jesus' words here. Do you know them?

In other words, they have always been monotheist BY MISTAKE.

Not quite. I'm monotheist too. I'm simply embracing the tension that I believe God set up Himself. I believe you are rejecting Him with rejecting the tension.

2) It took some astute GENTILES to set the retarded JEWS on the right path. You know, the ones who ponied under the great CONSTANTINE emperor of Rome? The one who worshiped the Sun God?

Come back Loveapples.

Checkmate. And that don't mean sex, Loveapples.

It isn't checkmate because you are trying to play two games here.

Paul says gentiles are used to provoke them in Romans so there is some truth here: They don't believe a word of the gospels and epistles. Somewhere along the line, you have to come to terms with that. You can't walk the fence with a people who have rejected Jesus. I love them, but they have a great many things wrong.

Now learn and quit calling names.

 

[Lon]

Friend,

You paid too much for man-made organization and doctrines. If you are true Christian, the Holy Spirit will lead you to the whole truth what you need to know about God and Jesus and their commandments and teachings.

Simple question: Who taught you this? Did you fall under the teachings of men first, or did you read through the bible on your own first?
I didn't trust my church and read through my bible. They were too liberal and Jesus wasn't as important to them as He was to me.

So tell me the name, who are you following?

You don't seem to have much faith in the Holy Spirit. You have to much faith in your organization, instead of God.

I highly doubt this. I didn't believe much the church I attended taught. I had to be a Berean because that church was more of a religious liberal social club. They didn't really do much with the scriptures but read them liturgically. If they weren't teaching me, who was? Is it just coincidence that I happen to agree with the majority of Christianity about this?
I don't think so, but you go ahead and believe what brings you comfort.
I don't care if I am wrong as long as He is right. I've been over and over this conversation and have found you are wrong. Look at just the gross mouth of a couple of your cohorts on here this week.

Oh? approving to kill you enemy is godly?

I haven't much of a clue what you are talking about here. I'd be left to guessing to try and answer.

 

[graceandpeace]

I may not be as reeefined as you and hairlessmano but I had three major arguments which none of you ever rebutted in any way shape or form. Except by changing the subject to my so-called lack of Greek, name calling, or hillbilly hickness.

Then you call me dewowr whoever that is who has been banned? or somesuch. Trying to get me in trouble, loveapples?

These are the three:

1) Regarding the LOGOS, which had historically and always meant
the spoken oracle or plan of YHWH, how can this word now mean in addition another YHWH? Who has another mind and will? That is, Jesus being the LOGOS incarnate and the LOGOS at the same time being the plan or spoken word of YHWH is not compatible.

Only Hairlessmano even admitted that there was a problem here. He said to take it by faith, since it is a mystery. Maybe you can solve this one, Apple 7. Please try, for it is a building block question which previously lead me to Arianism.

2) Regarding the Echad of the Adonai, if this is one of unity, as you claim, Apple, then 2 immediate voids become evident logically and historically.
The first, how is it that the Jews never became polytheist? There are some trins out there who claim this question is moot, because the Jews HAVE ALWAYS BEEN gnostically, amorphously polytheist.
But I have to vehemently disagree. Please present your position here, Apple since it is a hugh void which keeps raising it's ugly head.
The second, how is it that this 'unity' has never been defined,
since the TRUE interpretation of 'echad' is 'unity' not 'uniqueness and/or numerical one-beingness.' The Jews believed the true interpretation was 'unity' but never found out or wondered or speculated even or was told in scripture WHAT this unity is?

There is nothing in Torah to indicate your position, Apple. You have
bent the meaning to fit your trinity paradigm. This is obvious and also dishonest in respect to ignoring the facts in history. In reality there is no speculation on any theoretical UNITY if God is numerically alone and one. Unity of what in this case? His already 'unifiedness?'

This void or lack of substance is also very evident to the truth seeker.

Especially in regards to this one thing: If YHWH is a UNITY of one and NOT a number of one, then WHY is this not definitively established? Because 'echad' just means 'one' as in English. God wants us to know his UNITY but not that he is numerically ONE? Yet never expounds to Abraham Moses or Jacob?

The facts are that YHWH explains His NUMERICAL oneness over and over in Torah. And you dishonest trins gloss over these verses every time. STANDING ALONE, NO ONE BESIDE HIM. Etcetera, etcetera.

3) If the Adonai AND the Eloyhim have always been referring to a plural God, since these terms for YHWH are plural in grammatical form, then the same questions will immediately arise. Why are the
Jews not polytheist?

I have pointed out emphatically that without the hypostatic union,
BY DEFINITION a plural God is polytheism.

YOU Apple 7 are thus put into a logistical corner with no way out.

And I will state what I THINK your position is, please correct me if I am wrong.

1) The Jews are basically retarded. They knew God to be plural in an amorphous way, never defined. They never bothered to try to define
YHWH. The faithful remnant would not find out until 8000 years after YHWH told them He was ONE. That this ONE was of unity and not of number. This contradicts their majority view, but what of it?

They have always been retarded. Never seeing or hearing. Never understanding. That the simple grammatical form of Adonai and Eloyhim is the REAL plural meaning of YHWH.

In other words, they have always been monotheist BY MISTAKE.

2) It took some astute GENTILES to set the retarded JEWS on the right path. You know, the ones who ponied under the great CONSTANTINE emperor of Rome? The one who worshiped the Sun God?

Come back Loveapples.

Checkmate. And that don't mean sex, Loveapples.

I agree.

Logos was NOT a separate person, this is why the trinity is soo off.

Your post made me giggle.

 

[graceandpeace]

Hi Lon,

Already answered:
1) John said with and was God. You don't need to argue that with me, just let me know once you've actually wrestled with God over this. Your argument is with him.

Do you understand that God spoke and everything came to be?

The WORD/logos is not a separate person, friend.

God SPOKE, and it was done:


Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.


Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that [it was] good: and God divided the light from the darkness.


Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.


Gen 1:6 ¶ And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.


Gen 1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which [were] under the firmament from the waters which [were] above the firmament: and it was so.


Gen 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.


Gen 1:9 ¶ And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry [land] appear: and it was so.

ETC...when God SPOKE, the creation came into being...God's WORD was with HIM..from the beginning.



Ps 33:9 For he spake, and it was [done]; he commanded, and it stood fast.

There is no such thing as three persons, called God.

There is ONE God who spoke via the WORD, and it was done.

 

[dreadknought]

Hi Lon,



Do you understand that God spoke and everything came to be?

The WORD/logos is not a separate person, friend.

God SPOKE, and it was done:


Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.


Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that [it was] good: and God divided the light from the darkness.


Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.


Gen 1:6 ¶ And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.


Gen 1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which [were] under the firmament from the waters which [were] above the firmament: and it was so.


Gen 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.


Gen 1:9 ¶ And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry [land] appear: and it was so.

ETC...when God SPOKE, the creation came into being...God's WORD was with HIM..from the beginning.



Ps 33:9 For he spake, and it was [done]; he commanded, and it stood fast.

There is no such thing as three persons, called God.

There is ONE God who spoke via the WORD, and it was done.

You are a Unitarian? :sigh:

Egads, has TOL defined Christianity?

Nevermind, I'll start a thread. lain:

 

[sholom]

Hillbilly is a lot less offensive than effeminate or 'ladyboy' in South America.
Out of the heart the mouth speaks.

I called no one a homo. Where did you get that from?

Mistaking you for somebody else is not the same as calling rude names...

I am sorry. 'Lon' sounds well, less exciting....

Already answered:
1) John said with and was God. You don't need to argue that with me, just let me know once you've actually wrestled with God over this. Your argument is with him.

Not if v. 1-3 in John 1 are not YET referring to Jesus at all.

As I said, at the least, the very least, it is calling me a hairless monkey. At the worst, and along with all of the other nicknames you've chosen for people on here, it means homosexual in derogatory manner.

There you go again. Hairless MONKEY? Why, Lonnyboy I've not called you that for two posts, actually EVER. I said be good, and I WON'T.
You are not being good, Lonnyboy.

And what does a hairless monkey have to do with a homosexual?
Are you projecting here? What is your sensual affiliation anyway?
Never mind. I don't really want to know. Too much information.

Were they all? or just the ones you associate with doctrinally who rejected messiah? Was David against the idea when He penned "...the Lord said to my Lord..." Think, don't just hate. What does it mean? Forget about how much you despise me. Just listen to what God is saying. If I'm wrong, okay, prove it.

What? What does 'were they all mean?' All polytheist, or all monotheist? You are not being perspicuous here, hairlessmano.

(Oh, I get it. The lack of hair on your head, I've all along been referring to as parallel to your sexual affiliation. Good inference, chochem).

The two Lords in Psalms 110 prove that Jesus is NOT GOD. Because
the YHWH was always our LORD before. Now the Son is added.
David is saying YHWH my former LORD says to JESUS my present
(in prophetic mode, of course) LORD (adoni, singular) ....

Simple. Easy. Clear. Plain. Even a child could understand.

Well look: Genesis 1:1

Don't tell me your logic (what you "think" it says "IF" there were other verses). Don't "Write" scripture for me here. Just tell me what it says.
God did not tell you to write more verses in scripture for Him. If He needed them, He would have given them already. Now tell me what He says (not what you want Him to say, or think He would say).

EERR. This is what YOU are doing hairlessmano. Adding to scripture with your incarnation meaning of LOGOS. LOGOS has ALWAYS meant for the Jew the spoken WORD which made the heavens and the earth.

So now how did this metaphor come to mean Jesus? And how do these 2 mutually exclusive meanings come together? How are they even remotely compatible? Herr NOT, hairlessmano.

I repeat, if you want the Jews on top of your temple, put them there. There is no need to talk to us here because that is a different faith from us. We put Jesus on the top. The Jews rejected Him. If you are here just to fight between Christian and Jew, that's a different thread. This one is about Jesus as God.

Just eliminate the last two words and I would agree.

Is it, or are you only reading the Old Testament and not liking the Gospels and Epistles?

No. Here let me sing you the song...

Come togethaa! Raaat now. Ovah me.

Good question. Just embrace the question like the rest of us. We don't want to answer it. This is God's answer alone, not man's. That's the bottom line: We don't want anything man-made answering that question for us. The possibility that you are wrong far outweighs leaving it a question.

I know you don't want to answer it. Becuz you CAN'T, rasta.

Not at all. We believe very much the same as you do. We just leave open that Thomas calls Jesus His Lord and God.
It is an open question only to be answered by Him. He opened the door and you, a man, want to close it? Now who do we follow? You or Him?

God gave you the Shema in Deut 6. Follow HIM. NOT some inference you made about Thomas. God commanded you. It is your FIRST
COMMAND hairlessbreath.

Some actually have spoken about this and the mystery of it. Why are you only quoting those who rejected? You really must make up your mind: You will either be a Jew or a Christian, not both.

No, now don't try to weasel out. I put you in a logistical corner, one which neither of you can't paint yourselves out of. AND claimed checkmate.

No, wrong. Listen: Dolly the sheep is one sheep yet exists as two. She was cloned. The material for the 'second' is all Dolly. They used her DNA and her egg to make a whole other sheep but they are the same exact sheep. There is only one Dolly, but she exists as two separate things and both are somehow just her. God is One. How is that possible? I don't know, I just know that Thomas somehow calls Jesus God, believed there was only one, and somehow he is okay with that. John says that the Word that became flesh and dwelled with us both was with and was God.

NOW who is becoming incomprehensible? I am archiving your DOLLY
theorem of theology, Lon. This is classic. Simply classic.
Apple looky here. INCOMPREHENSIBLE.

Some did, but the majority rejected the Messiah. You are trying to keep one foot with those who rejected Him and perhaps trying to love Jesus at the same time.

No, I am adhering to the strict text of that which cannot be broken.
The written Word of God. Are you going to now say that the written WORD

IS JESUS TOO? Woo hoo. ROFL.

Not quite. I'm monotheist too. I'm simply embracing the tension that I believe God set up Himself. I believe you are rejecting Him with rejecting the tension.

You are NOT monotheist. MONOTHEIST means one God, hairy.

It isn't checkmate because you are trying to play two games here.

Paul says gentiles are used to provoke them in Romans so there is some truth here: They don't believe a word of the gospels and epistles. Somewhere along the line, you have to come to terms with that. You can't walk the fence with a people who have rejected Jesus. I love them, but they have a great many things wrong.

Now learn and quit calling names.

No, now listen up. The Gentile monolithic paradigms of paganism raised up their irrational rational constructs in the fourth century.
This resulted first in Jesus becoming God, second the second hypostasis of the Godhead.

LON.

 

[Apple7]

These are the three:

1) Regarding the LOGOS, which had historically and always meant
the spoken oracle or plan of YHWH, how can this word now mean in addition another YHWH? Who has another mind and will? That is, Jesus being the LOGOS incarnate and the LOGOS at the same time being the plan or spoken word of YHWH is not compatible.

There is only one God.

Why do you keep insisting that there are more?

Since you have taken this position, then you must scripturally prove that there is more than one God.

Good luck...

2) Regarding the Echad of the Adonai, if this is one of unity, as you claim, Apple, then 2 immediate voids become evident logically and historically.
The first, how is it that the Jews never became polytheist?

They did!

Why don't you try reading the OT, brother...!

The second, how is it that this 'unity' has never been defined,
since the TRUE interpretation of 'echad' is 'unity' not 'uniqueness and/or numerical one-beingness.' The Jews believed the true interpretation was 'unity' but never found out or wondered or speculated even or was told in scripture WHAT this unity is?

I already showed you the relation in the Shema.

There is nothing in Torah to indicate your position, Apple. You have bent the meaning to fit your trinity paradigm.

The Trinity has its genesis in Genesis.

Especially in regards to this one thing: If YHWH is a UNITY of one and NOT a number of one, then WHY is this not definitively established? Because 'echad' just means 'one' as in English. God wants us to know his UNITY but not that he is numerically ONE? Yet never expounds to Abraham Moses or Jacob?

Show me one scripture which states that God is a monad.

3) If the Adonai AND the Eloyhim have always been referring to a plural God, since these terms for YHWH are plural in grammatical form, then the same questions will immediately arise. Why are the
Jews not polytheist?

Why did the Jews keep resorting to making idols and worshiping them?

Why did God have to constantly chastize them for doing this?

Come on, brother...

1) The Jews are basically retarded. They knew God to be plural in an amorphous way, never defined. They never bothered to try to define
YHWH. The faithful remnant would not find out until 8000 years after YHWH told them He was ONE. That this ONE was of unity and not of number. This contradicts their majority view, but what of it?

They have always been retarded. Never seeing or hearing. Never understanding. That the simple grammatical form of Adonai and Eloyhim is the REAL plural meaning of YHWH.

In other words, they have always been monotheist BY MISTAKE.

2) It took some astute GENTILES to set the retarded JEWS on the right path. You know, the ones who ponied under the great CONSTANTINE emperor of Rome? The one who worshiped the Sun God?

Your words...how can we disagree?

 

[graceandpeace]

You are a Unitarian? :sigh:

Egads, has TOL defined Christianity?

Nevermind, I'll start a thread. lain:

I believe in ONE God, and Jesus is His name.