ECT Our triune God

Lon

Well-known member
yes pps, Paul's epistles are for ALL, Now. i knew there was something eating at you, and it seems that's it. i can't believe it took so long to come out, say what you're actually saying. you have a "special" understanding and see the true meaning of scripture in a way that very few, if any can grasp. it must be MADdening - :patrol:


View attachment 19321
More Calvinistic/Reformed than MAD. It took me a bit to understand you guys were talking about Atonement rather than universal salvation.
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Um . . John 14:23 only (literally) refers to the Father and Son.

but by the Spirit --

1Jn 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
1Jn 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
1Jn 4:11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.
1Jn 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
1Jn 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
1Jn 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
1Jn 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
1Jn 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

Trinity doctrine makes the Spirit of the Father into a third person.

LA
 

newbirth

BANNED
Banned
but by the Spirit --

1Jn 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
1Jn 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
1Jn 4:11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.
1Jn 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
1Jn 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
1Jn 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
1Jn 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
1Jn 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

Trinity doctrine makes the Spirit of the Father into a third person.

LA

which makes it an antichrist doctrine... deny Father and Son and adding another entity to the godhead is opposed to God's word
1 John 2:22
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
 

Lon

Well-known member
which makes it an antichrist doctrine... deny Father and Son and adding another entity to the godhead is opposed to God's word
1 John 2:22
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
Not your thread. This is a trolling comment, please use your own thread for this. It is against TOL rules to side-track a thread and/or troll-disrupt it.
 

PneumaPsucheSoma

TOL Subscriber
More Calvinistic/Reformed than MAD. It took me a bit to understand you guys were talking about Atonement rather than universal salvation.

Universal Atonement is built largely on the premise of taking passages like Col. 1:16-17 to be post-resurrection continuing ontology "in Christ" for the "world" (allegedly all men), rather than realizing those passages are referencing the whole of creation having its source of origin in the Logos (Son).

It literally destroys the actual hypostatic ontological Gospel, leaving off halfway to Universal Salvation while diminishing faith and grace with repentance, etc.

It also annihilates God's sovereign foreknowledge and ultimate predestination, impugning God and His inherent attributes that are never included in doctrinal consideration.
 

PneumaPsucheSoma

TOL Subscriber
which makes it an antichrist doctrine... deny Father and Son and adding another entity to the godhead is opposed to God's word
1 John 2:22
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

Are you a Binitarian, a Pneumatomachian, or what?

(And for true Orthodox Trinitarians, none of the three alleged "persons" are entities. An entity is a distinct being.)
 

TFTn5280

New member
Whether I am correct in my ascription to universal atonement or PPS in his denial of the same, there are still good things happening in our culture of decline. Praise be to the God of both PPS and me:


DR. JIM DENISON, PRESIDENT
THE DENISON FORUM
MAR 09, 2015

Liberal journalist comes out as a Christian

I'm old enough to remember when stores were closed on Sunday because everyone went to church, or knew they should. No one would have considered scheduling a soccer practice on Sunday. Billy Graham was America's "most admired" person.

When researchers began collecting data back in the 1930s on the number of Americans who are religiously unaffiliated, around five percent fit the category. The number rose to only eight percent by 1990. Today it has skyrocketed to 20 percent or more, including a third or more U.S. adults under the age of 30.

A chief contributor is the popular identification of Christianity with cultural conservatism. As a result, more than 40 percent of liberals say they have no religion. And many who do keep their faith quiet.

Now meet Ana Marie Cox. A one-time contributing editor to Playboy, she is the Washington correspondent for GQ and blogs on U.S. politics for The Guardian. She calls herself a "progressive, feminist, tattooed, pro-choice, graduate-educated believer." Note the last word.

Her recent blog for the Daily Beast broke the news: "Why I'm Coming Out as a Christian." Ana is emphatic: "To be clear, I don't just believe in God. I am a Christian." She adds that "decades of mass culture New Ageism has fluffed up 'belief in God' into a spiritual buffet, a holy catch-all for those who want to cover all the numbers. . . . Me, I'm going all in with Jesus."

What led her to him? She explains: "One of the most painful and reoccurring stumbling blocks in my journey is my inability to accept that I am completely whole and loved by God without doing anything. That's accompanied by a corresponding truth: There is nothing so great I can do to make God love me more.

"Because before I found God, I had an unconsciously manufactured higher power: I spent a lifetime trying to earn extra credit from some imaginary teacher, grade-grubbing under the delusion that my continued mistakes—missed assignments, cheating, other nameless sins—were constantly held against me."

Most of us can sympathize with her. What is the answer? "What Christ teaches me, if I let myself be taught, is that there is only one kind of judgment that matters. I am saved not because of who I am or what I have done (or didn't do), but simply because I have accepted the infinite grace that was always offered to me."

No matter who we are or where we've been, grace is still amazing. Where do you need God's transforming grace today? Who will find such grace in you?

EDIT NOTE: My guess ~ before long, all you're gonna see is a tattooed believer.
 
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TFTn5280

New member
[Universal Atonement] literally destroys the actual hypostatic ontological Gospel, leaving off halfway to Universal Salvation while diminishing faith and grace with repentance, etc.

Nah, I wouldn't go so far as that (come on PPS. Tell you what: read Barth's Dogmatics and get back to me on that one. In fact, I don't expect to hear from you again until you do, you being the man of integrity that you are).

But I will say this: He's right, I don't emphasize faith. And he's right, I don't emphasize repentance.




But I do emphasize JESUS.



You see, I think faith is a natural response (Spirit filled of course) to the good news of JESUS, so I don't have to shift the focus away from him to manipulate people into believing.

You see, I think repentance is a natural response (Spirit filled of course) to the good news of JESUS, so I don't have to shift the focus off of him to manipulate people into obedience.

Grace? Listen to my presentation of the Gospel. Read Athanasius. Read Karl Barth. Read T.F. Torrance. Get back to me on that one. Universal Atonement: it's full of grace.
 
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Nang

TOL Subscriber


Nah, I wouldn't go so far as that (come on PPS. Tell you what: read Barth's Dogmatics and get back to me on that one. In fact, I don't expect to hear from you again until you do, you being the man of integrity that you are).

But I will say this: He's right, I don't emphasize faith. And he's right, I don't emphasize repentance.




But I do emphasize JESUS.



You see, I think faith is a natural response (Spirit filled of course) to the good news of JESUS, so I don't have to shift the focus away from him to manipulate people into believing.

You see, I think repentance is a natural response (Spirit filled of course) to the good news of JESUS, so I don't have to shift the focus off of him to manipulate people into obedience.

Grace? Listen to my presentation of the Gospel. Read Athanasius. Read Karl Barth. Read T.F. Torrance. Get back to me on that one. Universal Atonement: it's full of grace.

If you think faith and repentance are sourced in and through God the Holy Spirit, then they cannot be "natural responses."

This is a logical contradiction . . .
 

TFTn5280

New member
If you think faith and repentance are sourced in and through God the Holy Spirit, then they cannot be "natural responses."

This is a logical contradiction . . .

It's perfectly natural for a Spirit filled recipient to believe and repent. Think not? (You being a Calvinist, should be the first to agree with this. No?)


By the way, Nang, I'm not here to play petty games with you. Mr. Ignore button for you if you don't change your attitude.
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
It's perfectly natural for a Spirit filled recipient to believe and repent. Think not? (You being a Calvinist, should be the first to agree with this. No?)

I took your usage of "natural response" as pertaining to the old nature, not the regenerated nature of the believer . . which IMO cannot be described as natural, but supernatural and new.

Faith and repentance is not inherent in unsaved human nature, due to the corruption of the human nature caused by the original sin of Adam.
 
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Nang

TOL Subscriber
It's perfectly natural for a Spirit filled recipient to believe and repent. Think not? (You being a Calvinist, should be the first to agree with this. No?)


By the way, Nang, I'm not here to play petty games with you. Mr. Ignore button for you if you don't change your attitude.

Doctrinal disagreement is not an attitude problem . . . nor is it petty game-playing.
 

PneumaPsucheSoma

TOL Subscriber
Whether I am correct in my ascription to universal atonement or PPS in his denial of the same, there are still good things happening in our culture of decline. Praise be to the God of both PPS and me:


DR. JIM DENISON, PRESIDENT
THE DENISON FORUM
MAR 09, 2015

Liberal journalist comes out as a Christian

I'm old enough to remember when stores were closed on Sunday because everyone went to church, or knew they should. No one would have considered scheduling a soccer practice on Sunday. Billy Graham was America's "most admired" person.

When researchers began collecting data back in the 1930s on the number of Americans who are religiously unaffiliated, around five percent fit the category. The number rose to only eight percent by 1990. Today it has skyrocketed to 20 percent or more, including a third or more U.S. adults under the age of 30.

A chief contributor is the popular identification of Christianity with cultural conservatism. As a result, more than 40 percent of liberals say they have no religion. And many who do keep their faith quiet.

Now meet Ana Marie Cox. A one-time contributing editor to Playboy, she is the Washington correspondent for GQ and blogs on U.S. politics for The Guardian. She calls herself a "progressive, feminist, tattooed, pro-choice, graduate-educated believer." Note the last word.

Her recent blog for the Daily Beast broke the news: "Why I'm Coming Out as a Christian." Ana is emphatic: "To be clear, I don't just believe in God. I am a Christian." She adds that "decades of mass culture New Ageism has fluffed up 'belief in God' into a spiritual buffet, a holy catch-all for those who want to cover all the numbers. . . . Me, I'm going all in with Jesus."

What led her to him? She explains: "One of the most painful and reoccurring stumbling blocks in my journey is my inability to accept that I am completely whole and loved by God without doing anything. That's accompanied by a corresponding truth: There is nothing so great I can do to make God love me more.

"Because before I found God, I had an unconsciously manufactured higher power: I spent a lifetime trying to earn extra credit from some imaginary teacher, grade-grubbing under the delusion that my continued mistakes—missed assignments, cheating, other nameless sins—were constantly held against me."

Most of us can sympathize with her. What is the answer? "What Christ teaches me, if I let myself be taught, is that there is only one kind of judgment that matters. I am saved not because of who I am or what I have done (or didn't do), but simply because I have accepted the infinite grace that was always offered to me."

No matter who we are or where we've been, grace is still amazing. Where do you need God's transforming grace today? Who will find such grace in you?

EDIT NOTE: My guess ~ before long, all you're gonna see is a tattooed believer.

I'm always a bit concerned when I see/hear a testimony of "God, God, God" with no mention whatsoever of the name Jesus. Not judgment, but concern for whether there's been merely a hybridized message and insufficient faith, even if it's salvific elpis (hope/trust).

I have yet to meet a human who actually knows what grace is beyond a diluted and diverted concept.
 

TFTn5280

New member
I'm always a bit concerned when I see/hear a testimony of "God, God, God" with no mention whatsoever of the name Jesus. Not judgment, but concern for whether there's been merely a hybridized message and insufficient faith, even if it's salvific elpis (hope/trust).

I have yet to meet a human who actually knows what grace is beyond a diluted and diverted concept.
You must have read something I didn't. She said, ''Me, I'm all in with Jesus."
 
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