Open Closure

[freelight]

Judas did not understand the GOOD-NEWS-GOSPEL of Yeshua, which is the same I said repeatedly to your pal John W in the thread which I previously linked to, who also refused to even believe that because he, JW, just like Judas, is looking for a literal physical kingdom of Elohim upon the earth. That is because he, like most, sees Messiah as somewhere "in heaven", (waiting to return), rather than seeing Messiah as being with himself in the here and now. The "way of the Gentiles (or Heathen)" refers to your daily walk, (which "way of the Gentiles-Heathen" is to be avoided if you love the Master, ).

You're too allegorical daqq

:surf:

 

[marhig]

Nope.
There are more commands Jesus gave that we do not follow.
We don't sell all we have either.
Do you?

The point being that even if there was just one command of Jesus that we do not obey today, it's enough to show that SOME of the commands of Jesus while He walked the earth are most certainly not for everyone at all times.
It's obvious.

Bottom line here is that what Meshak stated is a lie .....

If she had stated that "Madist says SOME of His word is just for the Jews", it would be correct.
But that's not what she said, and it should be corrected.

I wouldn't call Christ Jesus just Jesus if I we're you, not unless you want "saint" John W calling you a child of the devil!!!!

Anyway, the commands of Jesus are for everyone, and we are to listen to him and whatsoever we are doing wrong, we obey and stop doing it.

You all keep bringing up the verse from the rich young ruler regarding selling all he had, yet zacchaeus was rich and Jesus never commanded him to sell all that he had, because when he heard Jesus preach, he gave half of his money away and then gave anyone that he had defrauded four times the that which he took. His heart was right, the rich young ruler loved money and that's why Jesus said what he did, because although he obeyed the commandments, his heart was wrong and he loved money!

When we hear Christ by the Spirit and we know that what we are doing is wrong before God, by either reading the Bible, or through our conscience or hearing it through others and it prick's our hearts, then we are to stop what we are doing obey him.

 

[marhig]

That's because SOME of Jesus' commands WERE only for the Jews and not to everyone for all times.


Now you know your impression was wrong.
Unless you want to think that this is for you to obey today ....

Matthew 16:20 KJV
(20) Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.
​

Matthew 10:5-6 KJV
(5) These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
(6) But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.​

We don't follow this, do you?

Matthew 16:20 KJV
(20) Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

​

Matthew 10:5-6 KJV
(5) These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
(6) But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.​

Paul did preach the grace gospel just as the ascended Lord and Savior Jesus Christ revealed to him to instruct.
Of course we follow the gospel Paul taught.
Don't you?

SOME.
Until you say SOME, your statement remains a lie.

We don't follow these commands of Jesus Christ that He gave to the Jews.

Matthew 16:20 KJV
(20) Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

​

Matthew 10:5-6 KJV
(5) These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
(6) But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.


​

Don't know why anyone today should think they should obey these commands of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Do you think you should obey those commands of Jesus Christ today?


We point out things that differ.
Such as ....

Acts 3:21 KJV​

(21) Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.​

​

​

is NOT the same as this ....​

​

Romans 16:25 KJV​

(25) Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,​

And such as .....

​

Matthew 10:5 KJV​

(5) These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:​

​

​

Is NOT the same as this ....​

​

​

​

Matthew 28:19 KJV​

(19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost


​

Things that differ are not the same, and they cannot be the same gospel message that everyone at all times is supposed to obey.

At those times Jesus did just send the twelve, but that doesn't make the gospel different to the gospel that they preached when they were sent out to every creature throughout the world. And it's no different to the gospel that Paul peached, there is one gospel, the gospel of God. Peached by Christ Jesus and then by all those who follow him.

 

[daqq]

You're too allegorical daqq

:surf:

The only other option in that instance would be hypocrisy, for as you may see, right there in the KJV which Tambora quoted, one of the twelve is called Simon the CANAANITE. While it is true that the Western texts do not read that way, still yet, if the Textus Receptus is correct, then Yeshua is telling Simon the CANAANITE not to go into the way of the GENTILES, (clear hypocrisy). The sense of "go" herein is to turn aside or go off, like getting off track, or off "the path", that is, the walk, (halachah), or "your goings". And even if it is not Simon the "Canaanite" still yet Yeshua clearly goes to a city of Samaria himself, called Sychar, (John 4), and not only does the woman at the well, a woman of Samaria, come to believe; but the whole town believes! And not only that but Yeshua tarries at that city of Samaria for two more days! Thus the physical carnal understanding makes Yeshua out to be a hypocrite who tells his disciples "not to go into the way of the Gentiles or any city of Samaria", when he himself does just that. In addition Yeshua teaches against the Pharisaic traditions against Gentiles in the passage where he testifies that unwashed hands is not what defiles a person. Those passages are no doubt in reference to the Pharisaic belief that the Gentiles were unclean: thus the washing of hands had become a tradition to the point of "law" because the Pharisees were superstitiously fearful that they may have accidentally come into contact during the day with something that a "Heathen" or "Gentile" had touched. Thus the MADites unknowingly teach the same garbage that the Pharisees taught in the days of the advent of Messiah: separation between "Jews" and "heathen-Gentiles", (albeit for different theological reasons). The Master clearly teaches opposite things compared to what the MAD's are teaching. If you look at what comes out of some of their mouths, like Saint John W, and read Matthew 15:1-20, it is very obvious who is correct in this:

Matthew 15:18-20 KJV
18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

And what immediately follows the above passage concerning the washing of hands and "unclean Gentiles"? The Canaanite woman of Tyre is grafted into the lost sheep of the house of Yisrael by FAITH because she was willing to submit and change her own mindset:

Matthew 15:21-28 KJV
21 Then Jesus went thence, and departed into the coasts of Tyre and Sidon.
22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

And clearly worship was not what this was about! :chuckle:

 

[Tambora]

Anyway, the commands of Jesus are for everyone,

Then obey this command of Jesus.

Matthew 10:5 KJV
(5) These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:


And obey this command of Jesus.


Matthew 16:20 KJV
(20) Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

 

[Tambora]

At those times Jesus did just send the twelve,

Finally, you get it, I think.

but that doesn't make the gospel different to the gospel that they preached when they were sent out to every creature throughout the world.

Well, no you don't get it.

If the gospel message is for everyone at all times to obey all the words of Jesus, then you have a problem.

 

[Tambora]

I wouldn't call Christ Jesus just Jesus if I we're you,

The twelve called him Jesus.
Mary was told to name Him Jesus.

 

[marhig]

Then obey this command of Jesus.

Matthew 10:5 KJV
(5) These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:


And obey this command of Jesus.


Matthew 16:20 KJV
(20) Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

Why should i? He didn't command me the do they those things!

I've told you, that if I am doing wrong, and I read the scriptures and realise, then I am to stop, that also goes for something I realise that I should be doing.

But what I don't do is deny most of what Jesus taught, call it the kingdom gospel and say it's not for me.

For instance, Jesus said, whosoever does not take up their cross, is not worthy of me.

I believe that this is for all those who follow Christ Jesus. But I've been told that this is just for the Jews as it's the kingdom gospel.

Do you believe that you should obey the this?

 

[Tambora]

You all keep bringing up the verse from the rich young ruler regarding selling all he had,

And other verses of Jesus' commands.

yet zacchaeus was rich and Jesus never commanded him to sell all that he had,

Well, I'll be. You mean that every command of Jesus is not required of everyone of all times????
That's what I've been saying!!!!!!

he gave half of his money away and then gave anyone that he had defrauded four times the that which he took.

That's a far cry from selling ALL he had.
But regardless, where is the command of Jesus telling Zac to give half his money, or to give 4 times what he had defrauded?

the rich young ruler loved money and that's why Jesus said what he did,

Ummm, Jesus told him he lacked one other thing to inherit eternal life, and that was to sell all he had.

because although he obeyed the commandments,

Except the command of Jesus to sell all he had to inherit eternal life.
He didn't obey that command of Jesus.
Should you obey that command?

 

[Tambora]

Why should i? He didn't command me the do they those things!

Exactly!
So we are not to obey all the words of Jesus.
Glad you agree.
That's what MADs teach because it is correct and scriptural.
Easy peasy.

 

[meshak]

Why should i? He didn't command me the do they those things!

I've told you, that if I am doing wrong, and I read the scriptures and realise, then I am to stop, that also goes for something I realise that I should be doing.

But what I don't do is deny most of what Jesus taught, call it the kingdom gospel and say it's not for me.

For instance, Jesus said, whosoever does not take up their cross, is not worthy of me.

I believe that this is for all those who follow Christ Jesus. But I've been told that this is just for the Jews as it's the kingdom gospel.

Do you believe that you should obey the this?

they are just nitpicking game with you now.

They have plenty of them.

 

[marhig]

And other verses of Jesus' commands.

Well, I'll be. You mean that every command of Jesus is not required of everyone of all times????
That's what I've been saying!!!!!!

That's a far cry from selling ALL he had.
But regardless, where is the command of Jesus telling Zac to give half his money, or to give 4 times what he had defrauded?

Ummm, Jesus told him he lacked one other thing to inherit eternal life, and that was to sell all he had.


Except the command of Jesus to sell all he had to inherit eternal life.
He didn't obey that command of Jesus.
Should you obey that command?

I've never said that every command is for us, but we are to obey what is and not just dismiss most of Jesus' teachings as not for us! Because most of them are!

And there was no command for zacchaeus, that's my point, Jesus didn't need to command him to sell all, because his heart was was right and when he heard Jesus and believed, he shared what he had because his heart was softened by the word. And Jesus said, today salvation has come upon this house. Zacchaeus was saved through faith and his past sins we're forgiven.

And as I said, Jesus told the rich young ruler to sell all he had because he loved money, we should obey whatever the Spirit shows us within our hearts that we are doing wrong. I believe that we are to listen to our conscience. And I believe that most of what Jesus taught is relevant for all of us!

Nothing materialistic should have a hold on us. We should be able to be willing to let go for God. Especially if we have and we see others in need.

Jesus taught that we show compassion and share, and I take this to myself. I believe that if we see another in need, then we should help them if we can.

 

[Tambora]

But what I don't do is deny most of what Jesus taught,

I don't deny anything Jesus taught.
However I do recognize that not all of what He taught was for everyone of all time to obey.

And I certainly don't get why you have not corrected Meshak at all with her false statement that MADs teach the words of Jesus are for Jews only.
She'll say it again as she has on numerous occasions, and it will be just as wrong when she says it again because she will not use the word SOME.
GT won't either; she constantly repeats that we must obey everything Jesus said.
She has been shown time and again, just like in this thread, that it is a false statement. And she keeps right on repeating the same lie over and over again.
Why would you want them to keep repeating the same lie over and over????
You know their statements are not right as they state them, but you have no desire to correct their error at all.

 

[marhig]

Exactly!
So we are not to obey all the words of Jesus.
Glad you agree.
That's what MADs teach because it is correct and scriptural.
Easy peasy.

But most of what Jesus teaches is for all of us!

1 Timothy 3

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

 

[marhig]

I don't deny anything Jesus taught.
However I do recognize that not all of what He taught was for everyone of all time to obey.

And I certainly don't get why you have not corrected Meshak at all with her false statement that MADs teach the words of Jesus are for Jews only.
She'll say it again as she has on numerous occasions, and it will be just as wrong when she says it again because she will not use the word SOME.
GT won't either; she constantly repeats that we must obey everything Jesus said.
She has been shown time and again, just like in this thread, that it is a false statement. And she keeps right on repeating the same lie over and over again.
Why would you want them to keep repeating the same lie over and over????
You know their statements are not right as they state them, but you have no desire to correct their error at all.

Tambora, I can honestly say that you are the first MAD that I have heard that says that the words of Jesus are for MADS too. I've only ever heard them say that Jesus preached the kingdom gospel for the Jews, and Paul preached the grace gospel for the gentiles and thats what the MADS follow.

I have never heard another MAD say what you have been saying regarding Jesus.

It will be good to hear them say that they agree with you.

 

[Tambora]

I believe that if we see another in need, then we should help them if we can.

I would like to know which MADist here has ever said anything different?
But even that statement of yours needs clarification.
For we certainly would not help someone rob a store, rape someone, etc.
You do have to have discernment on what type of "help" we should give and who we should give it to.

To try and paint MADs as uncaring towards others because we show that not all commands of Jesus are for everyone at all times is flat out lame and dishonest.

It is the same tired old rhetoric we hear when we teach about grace being unmerited on our part and that we rely solely on the perfect righteousness and obedience of Christ instead of any of our own imperfect righteousness and obedience. (Romans 5:17-18)
And then we get all kinds of lame comments like we have cheap grace and just run out and sin sin sin up a storm.
Lame, dishonest, and frankly about the worst type of excuse for an actual argument.

 

[marhig]

I would like to know which MADist here has ever said anything different?
But even that statement of yours needs clarification.
For we certainly would not help someone rob a store, rape someone, etc.
You do have to have discernment on what type of "help" we should give and who we should give it to.

To try and paint MADs as uncaring towards others because we show that not all commands of Jesus are for everyone at all times is flat out lame and dishonest.

It is the same tired old rhetoric we hear when we teach about grace being unmerited on our part and that we rely solely on the perfect righteousness and obedience of Christ instead of any of our own imperfect righteousness and obedience. (Romans 5:17-18)
And then we get all kinds of lame comments like we have cheap grace and just run out and sin sin sin up a storm.
Lame, dishonest, and frankly about the worst type of excuse for an actual argument.

Where did I say that MADists don't help or care about others?

I'm talking about Jesus saying that the rich young ruler to sell all he has, and I'm trying to say the he loved money so he couldn't let it go, but we shouldn't be like that, we should be able to let go and share when we see the need.

And regarding helping others, well that's easy to discern. When we see the need, and we have it, we help. Just like Jesus did.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

We should do everything Jesus tells us to do.

If one is guided by reading the Bible alone then one is not walking with the Lord to be able to hear His voice.

MADS accuse those who do hear His voice as being false prophets.

That is what MAD teaches.

LA

 

[Lazy afternoon]

I would like to know which MADist here has ever said anything different?
But even that statement of yours needs clarification.
For we certainly would not help someone rob a store, rape someone, etc.
You do have to have discernment on what type of "help" we should give and who we should give it to.

To try and paint MADs as uncaring towards others because we show that not all commands of Jesus are for everyone at all times is flat out lame and dishonest.

It is the same tired old rhetoric we hear when we teach about grace being unmerited on our part and that we rely solely on the perfect righteousness and obedience of Christ instead of any of our own imperfect righteousness and obedience. (Romans 5:17-18)
And then we get all kinds of lame comments like we have cheap grace and just run out and sin sin sin up a storm.
Lame, dishonest, and frankly about the worst type of excuse for an actual argument.

You never correct Grosnick on those points.

Rather you back him up with all of his uncaring unloving evil snide comments.



LA

 

[marhig]

You never correct Grosnick on those points.

Rather you back him up with all of his uncaring unloving evil snide comments.



LA

Or "saint," John w for that matter, and his mouth is far from Christ!